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Old 07-28-2014, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaker Position

Hi!

My basement work is finally done and got the chance to set up home theater on the weekend. However, I am a bit unsure about the placement. I originally wanted to wall mount the front speakers but they seem a bit big to mount, it wouldn't look good. And I am unsure of the placement of the sub?

Here is what the room looks like now.





Would they be ok on the floor? Or should I get at least stands for them? Also I have no idea where to put the subwoofer. All the websites show it beside the couch, half way in the room. Unfortunately I did not have the fore sight to think of that, so I would have to run the wire from the front along the sides to do that. It is not ideal :P

Where else is a good spot to put it?

The speakers are Polk Monitor 45B (Front), 35B (Rear/Surround), 15C (Center) and BIC F-12 Sub. And thanks to JWagstaff for helping me pick em out

THanks!
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:37 PM
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The front speakers should be on stands so the tweeters are at seated listener ear height - prefer steel stands for their weight but wood is OK as well. Angle them in toward the listener just slightly.

Google sansus speaker stands

Is that a center speaker on a shelf below the TV? If so, make sure it is moved forward as much as possible so the sound doesn't reflect off of the wall / shelf / TV.

For sub placement, it depends on your room - every room is different. Search AVS for "subwoofer placement" or "subwoofer crawl" to learn the best ways to determine optimal sub placement.
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
The front speakers should be on stands so the tweeters are at seated listener ear height - prefer steel stands for their weight but wood is OK as well. Angle them in toward the listener just slightly.

Google sansus speaker stands

Is that a center speaker on a shelf below the TV? If so, make sure it is moved forward as much as possible so the sound doesn't reflect off of the wall / shelf / TV.

For sub placement, it depends on your room - every room is different. Search AVS for "subwoofer placement" or "subwoofer crawl" to learn the best ways to determine optimal sub placement.

Thank you very much for the reply. The stands you suggested are much cheaper than the others I've seen

http://m.bestbuy.ca/?lang=en#/catalog/productdetails.aspx?ajax=true&sku=10061848&lang=en-CA

The Center speaker sits in line with the wall/tv. The TV is recessed into the wall a swell as the shelf. So it just slightly sticks out of the wall.

Will give the Crawl a try
There are a couple questions I have about the speaker settings as well but don't remember the terms right now. Will update when home. There's the option to change the Hz of the speakers 80Hz, 60Hz etc. what does this do? I used the automatic setup with the Audessy but still curious
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
Thank you very much for the reply. The stands you suggested are much cheaper than the others I've seen

http://m.bestbuy.ca/?lang=en#/catalo...848&lang=en-CA

The Center speaker sits in line with the wall/tv. The TV is recessed into the wall a swell as the shelf. So it just slightly sticks out of the wall.

Will give the Crawl a try
There are a couple questions I have about the speaker settings as well but don't remember the terms right now. Will update when home. There's the option to change the Hz of the speakers 80Hz, 60Hz etc. what does this do? I used the automatic setup with the Audessy but still curious
Yes those stands are a good option, a 24" stand should get the tweeters in the 45B about even with the center tweeter. I would space out the front speakers a little more, and as was mentioned toe them in towards the main listening position some. Putting the sub in a corner on an angle similar to how you have it helps add some gain, and in what looks to be a big open space, this would probably be a good idea. But experiment and see where it sounds best to you. Remember subs are omni-directional so don't feel like you have to point the sub at the seats.

The "Hz" in the receiver settings is the crossover frequency. Audyssey will determine the lowest value you can use, but I would go in and change the fronts to 80Hz if they are set lower. The center maybe 80 or 100Hz. Your surrounds are likely at 100Hz. Make sure it set all your speakers to small, so the sub handles the bass. On the back of the sub, set the crossover to the highest point, phase to zero, and volume to 30-40%. Re-run Audyssey and make sure the sub volume level in the receiver is at or close to 0dB. If it is negative, turn your sub volume down some, and if positive, raise the sub volume. You want to find the proper volume on the sub, then if you want to raise/lower the bass, do so in the receiver.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:58 AM
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Another option for speaker placement are wooden wall shelfs. Sort of like this one, but a little shorter in length.



Get an unpainted one and then paint it to match the trim. The advantage of speakers stands, though, is that it hides the wires. With the wall shelving, I would find some white speaker wire like this: http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Navajo...dp/B00006I5GV/

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Old 07-29-2014, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
Yes those stands are a good option, a 24" stand should get the tweeters in the 45B about even with the center tweeter. I would space out the front speakers a little more, and as was mentioned toe them in towards the main listening position some. Putting the sub in a corner on an angle similar to how you have it helps add some gain, and in what looks to be a big open space, this would probably be a good idea. But experiment and see where it sounds best to you. Remember subs are omni-directional so don't feel like you have to point the sub at the seats.

The "Hz" in the receiver settings is the crossover frequency. Audyssey will determine the lowest value you can use, but I would go in and change the fronts to 80Hz if they are set lower. The center maybe 80 or 100Hz. Your surrounds are likely at 100Hz. Make sure it set all your speakers to small, so the sub handles the bass. On the back of the sub, set the crossover to the highest point, phase to zero, and volume to 30-40%. Re-run Audyssey and make sure the sub volume level in the receiver is at or close to 0dB. If it is negative, turn your sub volume down some, and if positive, raise the sub volume. You want to find the proper volume on the sub, then if you want to raise/lower the bass, do so in the receiver.
Thanks! I found the exact stands on local classifieds (kijiji) for $20, so went ahead with it Here is what I am at now with all the advice taken in.
Also, how do I go about securing the speakers to the stand? There no screw hole on the bottom of the speaker or anything. Double sided tape should be enough? :S



I haven't had the chance to change any settings but will give all this a try this week. That 2nd paragraph in particular gave me a lot of changes to make If I remember correctly the volume on the receiver for the sub showed 12Db so deff need to adjust that. Aswell the phase I just left it at 120Hz I believe.
What exactly does setting the base on the sub to the max frequency do??

I am hoping Ill get a chance to play with the sub placement this thu, and clean up all the wires with some fishing on friday.

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Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post
Another option for speaker placement are wooden wall shelfs. Sort of like this one, but a little shorter in length.



Get an unpainted one and then paint it to match the trim. The advantage of speakers stands, though, is that it hides the wires. With the wall shelving, I would find some white speaker wire like this: http://www.amazon.com/Monster-Navajo...dp/B00006I5GV/
I wanted to keep that wall as clean as possible. If I could make recessed shelves in the walls for the speakers than I would do that.

Last edited by Crzyrio; 07-29-2014 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 07-30-2014, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
Thanks! I found the exact stands on local classifieds (kijiji) for $20, so went ahead with it Here is what I am at now with all the advice taken in.
Also, how do I go about securing the speakers to the stand? There no screw hole on the bottom of the speaker or anything. Double sided tape should be enough? :S



I haven't had the chance to change any settings but will give all this a try this week. That 2nd paragraph in particular gave me a lot of changes to make If I remember correctly the volume on the receiver for the sub showed 12Db so deff need to adjust that. Aswell the phase I just left it at 120Hz I believe.
What exactly does setting the base on the sub to the max frequency do??

I am hoping Ill get a chance to play with the sub placement this thu, and clean up all the wires with some fishing on friday.



I wanted to keep that wall as clean as possible. If I could make recessed shelves in the walls for the speakers than I would do that.
The speakers should be sturdy enough on there, some people use Blu-Tack which you can find on Amazon to stick the speakers to the stand. It won't damage the finish or leave a residue, and helps keep them a little more stable.

Your sub has a low pass filter on it (the crossover dial) and this is used if you don't have bass management via a receiver for example. By turning the crossover to the highest point, you disengage the subs low pass filter and let your receiver handle the crossover.

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Old 07-30-2014, 06:16 AM
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You have a nice room. Make sure you add room treatments. With that wood floor and bare walls your going to get a lot of reflection. I would add a large rug and soft furniture. There are also wall treatments that can be added as well.
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Old 07-30-2014, 08:16 AM
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To improve your sound you might want to looking into a large thick rug in from the the TV. It will help absord some of the highs and make your room less echo-y

What receiver do you have?

Did you run its room calibration set-up? What were the settings the receiver gave your speakers? (this helps us see if your speakers were set up right cause Audyssey isn't right 100% of the time)

You sure it set the subwoofer at 12db or was it -12db?
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
The speakers should be sturdy enough on there, some people use Blu-Tack which you can find on Amazon to stick the speakers to the stand. It won't damage the finish or leave a residue, and helps keep them a little more stable.

Your sub has a low pass filter on it (the crossover dial) and this is used if you don't have bass management via a receiver for example. By turning the crossover to the highest point, you disengage the subs low pass filter and let your receiver handle the crossover.
Thanks! Will look into Blu-Tack, Im more worried about someone tipping it over. 1 more question with regards to cross over. When using Audessy it said one of my speakers is out of phase and asked me to flip the red & black wires, after doing so it was fine. Is this normal?

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Originally Posted by pkrfan View Post
You have a nice room. Make sure you add room treatments. With that wood floor and bare walls your going to get a lot of reflection. I would add a large rug and soft furniture. There are also wall treatments that can be added as well.
Thanks! What do you mean by 'soft' furniture? We plan on doing the rug, and likely a leather couch for now.

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Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post
To improve your sound you might want to looking into a large thick rug in from the the TV. It will help absord some of the highs and make your room less echo-y

What receiver do you have?

Did you run its room calibration set-up? What were the settings the receiver gave your speakers? (this helps us see if your speakers were set up right cause Audyssey isn't right 100% of the time)

You sure it set the subwoofer at 12db or was it -12db?
It is the Denon AVR-e300 -> http://www.accessories4less.com/make...airplay/1.html

Thanks! I will post up all the settings the calibration gave me sometime tomo and will double check the subwoofer volume :P
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
Thanks! Will look into Blu-Tack, Im more worried about someone tipping it over. 1 more question with regards to cross over. When using Audessy it said one of my speakers is out of phase and asked me to flip the red & black wires, after doing so it was fine. Is this normal?



Thanks! What do you mean by 'soft' furniture? We plan on doing the rug, and likely a leather couch for now.



It is the Denon AVR-e300 -> http://www.accessories4less.com/make...airplay/1.html

Thanks! I will post up all the settings the calibration gave me sometime tomo and will double check the subwoofer volume :P
Yeah that is not a big deal about the phase, Audyssey checks for that and makes sure everything is wired correctly.

Soft furniture just means cushioned surfaces, not glass/wood/metal. Putting a big area rug down in front will help with floor reflections, and if there are windows, drapes help reduce reflections off windows. One good investment that you can make, either via purchase or DIY, is acoustic panels. You can get nice looking fabric or do printed designs, stretched over a frame and hung on the wall at the primary reflection points. This makes a huge difference in sound quality and can add a nice decorative element to the room.

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Old 07-31-2014, 12:38 PM
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I use this to keep my subs from shifting since they are stacked from floor to ceiling in the front corners of the room. It would be pretty scary if the top sub fell off!

Since I put it in between the subs they have not budged at all. Good stuff.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/QuakeHOLD...8111/100143045
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are the settings that Audessy sets.








A few things I am noticing that I do not like. I can barely hear that bass punch when it comes to music but the bass sounds great for movies (could be my music files?). All the music is very trebly. Maybe this will fix it self once I follow your advice with regards to soft furniture and a rug?

For movies it sounds awesome but everything is loud. When I sit in the spot where I did the setup from, it is hard to distinguish the surround sound. I have to move back closer to the rear speakers to really get the surround sound effect. Should I just down the front speakers a bit?

Also if -12 sound right for the sub? :S
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
Yeah that is not a big deal about the phase, Audyssey checks for that and makes sure everything is wired correctly.

Soft furniture just means cushioned surfaces, not glass/wood/metal. Putting a big area rug down in front will help with floor reflections, and if there are windows, drapes help reduce reflections off windows. One good investment that you can make, either via purchase or DIY, is acoustic panels. You can get nice looking fabric or do printed designs, stretched over a frame and hung on the wall at the primary reflection points. This makes a huge difference in sound quality and can add a nice decorative element to the room.
Looked into the acoustic panels and definitely seem interesting if we can find some with patterns or something. Only thing is where to put it, the left side of the TV is open space and there is a long wall on the right. So it would go on that wall then? Ill try and post pics of the entire basement.

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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I use this to keep my subs from shifting since they are stacked from floor to ceiling in the front corners of the room. It would be pretty scary if the top sub fell off!

Since I put it in between the subs they have not budged at all. Good stuff.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/QuakeHOLD...8111/100143045
Thank you! This looks like a viable option. Are you able to see it under the sub? Or can you spread it thin enough that it is not noticeable?
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:30 AM
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One issue however is the sub level is too high. Your receiver has the level at -12dB, which means you need to turn down the sub and re-run Audyssey. You want the measured level in the receiver to be at 0dB, or within +/- 0.5dB. This should help make things sound better. If after this is done you want more or less bass, add to the level in the receiver. The goal here is to find the right gain to keep the sub at so it works properly with your setup.

The accentuated high frequencies are likely due to all the reflections off hard surfaces. Get your a big area rug and hang drapes on any windows in the room. You may also want to look into some acoustic treatment, you can make your own panels relatively easily, using a wooden frame with fabric stretched across.

You may want to adjust the position of your surrounds, it looks like they are shooting out over your head towards the front. You want the tweeters pointed at your ears, so it looks like they need to be turned inward and down.

Also make sure to do the calibration from where your head would be, not in the middle of the room somewhere. Audyssey will tell you to move the mic several times, so make sure you are placing it in the correct locations as shown on screen. If you are sitting on a sofa, think of the three areas as three people's heads sitting there, to help get your position correct. And if you add any furniture or rugs/wall coverings, make sure to re-run Audyssey.

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Old 08-01-2014, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
Here are the settings that Audessy sets.








A few things I am noticing that I do not like. I can barely hear that bass punch when it comes to music but the bass sounds great for movies (could be my music files?). All the music is very trebly. Maybe this will fix it self once I follow your advice with regards to soft furniture and a rug?

For movies it sounds awesome but everything is loud. When I sit in the spot where I did the setup from, it is hard to distinguish the surround sound. I have to move back closer to the rear speakers to really get the surround sound effect. Should I just down the front speakers a bit?

Also if -12 sound right for the sub? :S
Basically you're at the point where you have to start adjusting things to "your" liking, everyone hears different and likes there systems set differently.
As far as the -12, that could be caused by a few things, but good chance that it's in part to the sound reflection that was mentioned earlier.
Best thing now is to work on your room treatments, rugs and panels, this will change a lot of things and no sense in getting it just the way you want and having to go through it all over again once you add those things.
You're almost there.

(Ooops, sort of double posted with trans., you get the idea.

Last edited by ALtlOff; 08-01-2014 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
One issue however is the sub level is too high. Your receiver has the level at -12dB, which means you need to turn down the sub and re-run Audyssey. You want the measured level in the receiver to be at 0dB, or within +/- 0.5dB. This should help make things sound better. If after this is done you want more or less bass, add to the level in the receiver. The goal here is to find the right gain to keep the sub at so it works properly with your setup.

The accentuated high frequencies are likely due to all the reflections off hard surfaces. Get your a big area rug and hang drapes on any windows in the room. You may also want to look into some acoustic treatment, you can make your own panels relatively easily, using a wooden frame with fabric stretched across.

You may want to adjust the position of your surrounds, it looks like they are shooting out over your head towards the front. You want the tweeters pointed at your ears, so it looks like they need to be turned inward and down.

Also make sure to do the calibration from where your head would be, not in the middle of the room somewhere. Audyssey will tell you to move the mic several times, so make sure you are placing it in the correct locations as shown on screen. If you are sitting on a sofa, think of the three areas as three people's heads sitting there, to help get your position correct. And if you add any furniture or rugs/wall coverings, make sure to re-run Audyssey.
+1 to all this

Also, Audyssey is picky about how you have the mic positioned (direction). Be sure to follow instructions carefully and read some tutorials if you have not already.

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Old 08-01-2014, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
Thanks! I found the exact stands on local classifieds (kijiji) for $20, so went ahead with it Here is what I am at now with all the advice taken in.
The stands look great - good find. Your tweeters look to be close in height across the front three speakers which is ideal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
I haven't had the chance to change any settings but will give all this a try this week. That 2nd paragraph in particular gave me a lot of changes to make If I remember correctly the volume on the receiver for the sub showed 12Db so deff need to adjust that. As well the phase I just left it at 120Hz I believe.
You should set the phase control on the back of your sub(s) to zero - your AVR will do phase matching at its crossover point to blend the sub as part of the room EQ - at least Audyssey does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crzyrio View Post
If I could make recessed shelves in the walls for the speakers than I would do that.
You probably could between studs, only problem with that is if your speakers are ported - especially with the port on the back - they will actually sound better moved out from the wall the way that you have them on the stands.

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Old 08-08-2014, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info thus far guys, its made a HUGE difference. We've been busy so havent had much time to finish the furnishing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
One issue however is the sub level is too high. Your receiver has the level at -12dB, which means you need to turn down the sub and re-run Audyssey. You want the measured level in the receiver to be at 0dB, or within +/- 0.5dB. This should help make things sound better. If after this is done you want more or less bass, add to the level in the receiver. The goal here is to find the right gain to keep the sub at so it works properly with your setup.

The accentuated high frequencies are likely due to all the reflections off hard surfaces. Get your a big area rug and hang drapes on any windows in the room. You may also want to look into some acoustic treatment, you can make your own panels relatively easily, using a wooden frame with fabric stretched across.

You may want to adjust the position of your surrounds, it looks like they are shooting out over your head towards the front. You want the tweeters pointed at your ears, so it looks like they need to be turned inward and down.

Also make sure to do the calibration from where your head would be, not in the middle of the room somewhere. Audyssey will tell you to move the mic several times, so make sure you are placing it in the correct locations as shown on screen. If you are sitting on a sofa, think of the three areas as three people's heads sitting there, to help get your position correct. And if you add any furniture or rugs/wall coverings, make sure to re-run Audyssey.
This solved it thanks . I tilted them down some more and the difference is quiet significant. Playing video games is never going to be the same lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Basically you're at the point where you have to start adjusting things to "your" liking, everyone hears different and likes there systems set differently.
As far as the -12, that could be caused by a few things, but good chance that it's in part to the sound reflection that was mentioned earlier.
Best thing now is to work on your room treatments, rugs and panels, this will change a lot of things and no sense in getting it just the way you want and having to go through it all over again once you add those things.
You're almost there.

(Ooops, sort of double posted with trans., you get the idea.
Thanks! We are going furniture shopping this weekend and found some acoustic panels on kijiji for decent prices. Where would I put them though? On the side wall or back wall? There will be a couch and such between the speakers and the back wall so In my mind it doesnt make sense. There is only a wall on the right side so would it be useful to put it on the side half way down?
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:23 AM
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You want them at the main reflection points. Here is an excellent article on room acoustics from GIK, I would recommend reading through it and it will help you understand how sound interacts in there, and where you want to be placing your panels.

http://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-primer/

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