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neoconagenda
07:15 AM Liked: 0
post #1 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 19
Joined: Jul 2014
I have read this forum for a long time and have been happy to sit back and absorb as much information as I could, but I have a question that I have not been able to get an answer to. I currently have a low cost set up in my 23'x25' living room that consists of an Onkyo TX-NR7?? AVR and the following speakers: Front - Polk monitor 70 II / Front wide and surround - Polk monitor 30 / Center CS1 II... I know from reading this forum over the years that there is a lot of Polk bashing but I bought the best I could afford... So now that I have more money I am going to upgrade but I really want to keep the Polkies... I decided to get the Onkyo 3010 for a few reasons but the biggest being Audyssey. I am in a large living room and need all of the help I can get with corrections, and Audyessy does it really well.

So now that you have the short back story here's the question - The 3010 is rated at 140w all channels, the polks I have are rated 20-100w (except the floor standing) - Do I need new speakers?
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom
07:24 AM Liked: 202
post #2 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 3,890
Joined: May 2003
No. It doesn't matter if you have too much power if you're sensible. I'm using 200W which is higher than the speakers.

Also that Onkyo outputs 114W per channel with all 7 channels driven
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-labs-measures
crazyrob425's Avatar crazyrob425
07:47 AM Liked: 202
post #3 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 6,495
Joined: Dec 2009
I newer receiver will be a nice upgrade for you.

Alot of Polk hate is undeserved. But that goes for most speaker brands as hearing is subjective. What sounds amazing to one person sounds like **** to another.

I love the sound of Polk Speakers thats why I have always stayed with them until settling on the RTi-series from them. There is no reason to change your speakers if you like their current sound IMHO.

Another potential upgrade for you might be a subwoofer.
neoconagenda
08:13 AM Liked: 0
post #4 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 19
Joined: Jul 2014
fatbottom - Thats good news. I will work on new speakers later but the f8500 and the new avr took priority. Next on the list is a 2 channel amp for the fronts. I think that I will be happy with my choices as I believe 4K will not ready for prime time for quite a while.

Crazyrob - I agree with you about sound being subjective. At some point you have to wonder what % of the population has benchmark hearing. I believe that if you were to base peoples speaker opinions on a Pepsi challenge scenario you might find some surprises! On the subs I have 2 Polk 12" psw505 - I am planning on moving the second sub to the back of the room as the 3010 has sub eq.

I like to say that I have a Roxy 0.00027 system...
FMW's Avatar FMW
09:38 AM Liked: 830
post #5 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 5,334
Joined: Jun 2007
Agreed. A subwoofer would make a significant difference in the sound of the system. The new receiver will simply provide newer gadgets.
neoconagenda
09:51 AM Liked: 0
post #6 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 19
Joined: Jul 2014
I am seeing a trend here on upgrading the sub(s). Since I want to use two subs (new sub eq option) I will need to try and keep them less than $500 each. Brand / model suggestions? I have not even begun looking at speakers yet let alone subs.

Or should I take the $1000 and buy a single better sub if that outweighs the benefit of the sub eq option... I am alrwady running the two on a Y splitter...
Transmaniacon's Avatar Transmaniacon
09:54 AM Liked: 460
post #7 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 3,670
Joined: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoconagenda View Post
I am seeing a trend here on upgrading the sub(s). Since I want to use two subs (new sub eq option) I will need to try and keep them less than $500 each. Brand / model suggestions? I have not even begun looking at speakers yet let alone subs.
The Outlaw LFM-1 Plus is on sale right now for $499 with free shipping, this is the best new sub $500 will get you and a pair of them would be excellent. The sale ends on the 31st so don't wait too long!
icelt's Avatar icelt
09:55 AM Liked: 199
post #8 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 680
Joined: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoconagenda View Post
I am seeing a trend here on upgrading the sub(s). Since I want to use two subs (new sub eq option) I will need to try and keep them less than $500 each. Brand / model suggestions? I have not even begun looking at speakers yet let alone subs.
Many will recommend the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus that is currently marked down at $499 with free shipping. However this sale might end on Thursday (7/31) so you might not have much time to decide if you want to take advantage of it.
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfm1plus.html
Gecko85's Avatar Gecko85
09:58 AM Liked: 95
post #9 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 2,230
Joined: Aug 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoconagenda View Post
I am seeing a trend here on upgrading the sub(s). Since I want to use two subs (new sub eq option) I will need to try and keep them less than $500 each. Brand / model suggestions? I have not even begun looking at speakers yet let alone subs.

Or should I take the $1000 and buy a single better sub if that outweighs the benefit of the sub eq option... I am alrwady running the two on a Y splitter...
You could go with two Hsu VTF-2's ($559 each plus shipping, but they often go on sale), or a single VTF-3 Mk4 ($699) or VTF-15H ($879).
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell
10:03 AM Liked: 499
post #10 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 1,744
Joined: Nov 2009
I agree with those that stated the Outlaw. If you miss the sale, then take a look at the following:

Reaction Audio BPS-212 @ $499 shipped (sealed sub with dual opposing 12-inch drivers)
SVS PB-1000 @ $499 shipped (ported)
neoconagenda
11:39 AM Liked: 0
post #11 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 19
Joined: Jul 2014
What about going with the reaction dual 15 and the Outlaw LFM-1 - Or is it a terrible idea to have both sealed and ported subs? I am probably showing some ignorance here...
Transmaniacon's Avatar Transmaniacon
11:48 AM Liked: 460
post #12 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 3,670
Joined: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoconagenda View Post
What about going with the reaction dual 15 and the Outlaw LFM-1 - Or is it a terrible idea to have both sealed and ported subs? I am probably showing some ignorance here...
Ideally you want your subs to match, as it is harder to integrate two different ones. Also those subs are geared for different tasks, a ported sub is going to have better low end output which is favorable for movies. Whereas a sealed sub sacrifices some extension in favor of a more accurate response. Many people prefer sealed subs for music. If you have the budget, the LFM-1 EX is the bigger brother to the Plus and would be worth an extra $100 for the increased output and extension.
neoconagenda
01:01 PM Liked: 0
post #13 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 19
Joined: Jul 2014
I got a lot of good information from everyone, even more than I planned to. I am going to look into a pair of Outlaws 2200 200w single channel amps for the fronts. And probably a pair of EX's for the subs...
crazyrob425's Avatar crazyrob425
01:09 PM Liked: 202
post #14 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 6,495
Joined: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I agree with those that stated the Outlaw. If you miss the sale, then take a look at the following:

Reaction Audio BPS-212 @ $499 shipped (sealed sub with dual opposing 12-inch drivers)
SVS PB-1000 @ $499 shipped (ported)
Yep if you missed the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus sale these are your other two choices.

If you could afford dual LFM-1 EX's on sale for $599 shipped each you will be amazed with your bass performance.
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell
02:01 PM Liked: 499
post #15 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 1,744
Joined: Nov 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoconagenda View Post
What about going with the reaction dual 15 and the Outlaw LFM-1 - Or is it a terrible idea to have both sealed and ported subs? I am probably showing some ignorance here...
What happened to your budget? If you are that flexible, take a look at the Seaton Submersives or JTR Caps .

Anyhow, I agree with Trans. Different subs for different tasks, and it is much easier to integrate subs that are the same. I will expand on Trans' comment just to say that if your room size was less than 2,000 cu. ft. a sealed design has a chance for lower extension since the roll off is more gentle, because of natural cabin gain. It just won't have the output at the ported subs tuning port frequency. Unfortunately, your large room won't see cabin gain, and is the reason people here suggest going ported.
neoconagenda
03:29 PM Liked: 0
post #16 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 19
Joined: Jul 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
What happened to your budget?
I have decided to break this process up over a longer time frame so I can spread the cost out and get better equipment. I am conflicted now on upgrading the subs or getting either a 2 channel amp or two single channel M-2200 amps for the towers. This decision will have to wait until I see how those 70's sound with the upgrade to the 3010... So many factors that are not helped by the room itself. I am just lucky that my wife is OK with bookshelf size speakers hanging on the wall. They look really nice nest to the Thomas Kinkade...
Kini62's Avatar Kini62
03:43 PM Liked: 420
post #17 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 3,311
Joined: Mar 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoconagenda View Post
I have decided to break this process up over a longer time frame so I can spread the cost out and get better equipment. I am conflicted now on upgrading the subs or getting either a 2 channel amp or two single channel M-2200 amps for the towers. This decision will have to wait until I see how those 70's sound with the upgrade to the 3010... So many factors that are not helped by the room itself. I am just lucky that my wife is OK with bookshelf size speakers hanging on the wall. They look really nice nest to the Thomas Kinkade...
IMO you're wasting your money on an amp for the mains. Unless you are running out of power and driving your speakers to distortion, then you don't need an amp. Distance to the main listening position (MLP) is what matters most for your speakers. The total room volume needs to be accounted for when deciding on subs.

You have a large room so you would be better off going with ported subs. A pair of the mentioned Outlaws would be great.

You might also get by with one larger ported sub and running your pair of polk subs near field close to the MLP. Then upgrade to a pair of subs when funds become available.

$800 SVS PB2000
$900 PSA XV15SE
$1000 Reaction Audio PV15X, HSU VTF-15
$1100 SVS PC12 Plus from the outlet section

Next step up is around $1400 which would be the Rythmik FV15HP
neoconagenda
04:44 PM Liked: 0
post #18 of 18
07-29-2014 | Posts: 19
Joined: Jul 2014
Thanks to everyone I now have a good starting plan. I am offshore working for the next 3 weeks so I will have time to see if anyone else comes up with input. I am really hoping that this AVR upgrade makes the Polkies I have sound so much better that I dont need to replace them. The 8500 and 3010 purchase were not planned events - LG plasma finally got one dead pixel line too many and the Onkyo fell victim to overheating when the AV cabinet fan quit working and my daughter kept turning it on after every protection trip. But these have been a great reasons to make some needed changes.

As it stands right now:
Samsung 64" 8500 - in hand
Onkyo 3010 - delivered today
Keep the a fore mentioned Polk floors, bookshelf, and center
Nix the idea of amping the mains - unless there is a need
Purchase a new Outlaw EX and 50' of coax so I can move it to the back
Use the two Polk subs I already have on one of the sub outs up front if needed - probably wont need to with everything I have read about these.
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