JTR comparisons - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 63 Old 08-03-2014, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
andrewtodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 10
JTR comparisons

Hi,

I've spent weeks reading through threads comparing JTR speakers to other brands at similar prices. Understandably, there seem to be very few threads comparing JTR speakers to speakers that are a lot more expensive from more commercial brands.

Because I've heard nothing but amazing things about JTR I was all ready to buy 3 JTR 212 speakers until recently, when circumstances got me looking into used speakers. Has anyone ever compared the 212s to B&W 803s/802s or KEF reference 205s. My other consideration are the 228s. Has anyone ever compared the 228s to B&W 804s or KEF reference 203s?

I'd love to hear opinions from both people who went with JTR and others that decided against them.

Cheers.
andrewtodd is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 63 Old 08-03-2014, 05:54 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,012
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 307 Post(s)
Liked: 387
Generally speaking, selling price tells you more about a company's sales and marketing strategy than a loudspeakers quality or performance. I moved from expensive speakers to much less expensive JTR's. Many here consider the JTR's to be expensive but with the high sensitivity designs sold Internet Direct the cost tells you very little.

The best advice you will receive is to audition the speakers that interest you then decide for yourself. Your preferences may be very different than mine.

Good luck!

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #3 of 63 Old 08-03-2014, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
andrewtodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Generally speaking, selling price tells you more about a company's sales and marketing strategy than a loudspeakers quality or performance. I moved from expensive speakers to much less expensive JTR's. Many here consider the JTR's to be expensive but with the high sensitivity designs sold Internet Direct the cost tells you very little.

The best advice you will receive is to audition the speakers that interest you then decide for yourself. Your preferences may be very different than mine.

Good luck!
Thank you.

What speakers did you have before you moved to JTR and which JTR speakers did you buy? I know everyone has different tastes in speakers, however, reading other peoples opinions on this forum has always served me well. At the very least it's always an excellent starting point.

I'm also struggling to find places to hear all of the speakers I'm interested in. The only speakers I've been able to listen to are the B&W 802s and 803s. I thought they were amazing but didn't think the vocals were that clear. I expected to get a lot more for my money with JTR which is why I was hoping to hear comparisons with more expensive speakers from companies with much higher overheads rather than ones at the same price.
andrewtodd is offline  
post #4 of 63 Old 08-03-2014, 08:32 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,012
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 307 Post(s)
Liked: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
Thank you.

What speakers did you have before you moved to JTR and which JTR speakers did you buy? I know everyone has different tastes in speakers, however, reading other peoples opinions on this forum has always served me well. At the very least it's always an excellent starting point.

I'm also struggling to find places to hear all of the speakers I'm interested in. The only speakers I've been able to listen to are the B&W 802s and 803s. I thought they were amazing but didn't think the vocals were that clear. I expected to get a lot more for my money with JTR which is why I was hoping to hear comparisons with more expensive speakers from companies with much higher overheads rather than ones at the same price.
I had Revel Ultima Studio (1&2) models and they are equivalent to the B&W 802's. Your issue with the vocals is likely the setup of the space you heard them in as the 802's should do an excellent job with music including vocals. I replaced the Revel's with JTR's Triple 12HT and have had several JTR's models since with each being a small improvement in SQ as compared to the previous model. The Revels were more detailed than the original JTR's but less capable for Home Theater and Concert level listening to music. Subsequent JTR models have closed the sound quality gap.

It really comes down to your priorities and even aesthetic preferences. If you are placing speakers in a common living space, and listening to movies and music at moderate levels is the norm, then any of the "audiophile" grade speakers you are considering would be preferable.

If you have a dedicated space and/or like IMAX/Atmos movie levels and occasionally like to hear concerts at realistic levels, then maybe the JTR's or speakers of that ilk are worthy of investigation. Hearing is believing.
Archaea likes this.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!

Last edited by RMK!; 08-04-2014 at 10:47 AM.
RMK! is online now  
post #5 of 63 Old 08-03-2014, 08:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,315
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked: 800
Quite a statesman Rob!

JTRs rock. That's all I have to say about that. Speakers I've listened to are in my signature under subwoofer recommendations by pricepoint. (It also includes speaker auditions). JTR is top shelf compared to anything I've ever come across, but like Rob says - its all sooo subjective. Hear as much as you can before you buy!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #6 of 63 Old 08-03-2014, 08:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,838
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 319
Simple question........

What are your typical listening levels?

Minus 15, -10, -5, or reference ie. 0 on receiver, pre-pro etc.

That should focus your search.......

IMOH, there are much better choices than 804's especially for the money.
doublewing11 is offline  
post #7 of 63 Old 08-03-2014, 11:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked: 86
What kind of stuff are you going to be listening to?

What qualities do you like in speakers?

Are these going to be behind an AT screen or out in the open?

Some speakers to check out, aside from B&W and JTR (there are a million out there, but maybe this will help):
Legacy Aeris
JBL M2 system packaged with Crown amps
Seaton Catalyst

Of all these, I have personally only heard B&W 802s and Legacy Aeris. The 802s were great, but the Aeris was a league above.
I would love to have a chance to hear the rest.
rcohen is offline  
post #8 of 63 Old 08-03-2014, 11:38 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
andrewtodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you for the replies. They contain exactly the kind of information I was hoping for.

The room will be a dedicated theater/music room (20 x 15 x 9.5 if I remember correctly.) The room will 90/10 movies/music although I'm probably more picky when it comes to music. Most of the time the processor will be set to about -10 however there will certainly be occasions (when my wife is not in the room) that I have it set to reference levels.

You may very well be correct about the room RMK. The room had a lot of acoustical treatment but I have the feeling it was more to sell the panels than to perfect the room. The 802s sounded almost too big for me in that room and I prefered the 803s. Although aesthetics is one of my smallest priorities (because they are likely to be behind a screen) it would be a bonus if the speakers were attractive incase my situation changes. Sound is much more important though. I really want to set my theater up for Atmos but I'm not sure that the movies will only be played at standard Atmos volumes sometimes. It's very interesting to hear that you went from Revel to JTR when you already owned the Revel. That says a lot about the JTR.

What page of your thread do you discuss speakers other than subs Archaea? Or do I need to open other threads you have linked in that thread?

It was the 802s and 803s I was listening to doublewing11. Does your statement about there being much better choices still apply?

KEF reference speakers is on my list because they were my dream speakers 13 years ago. I haven't heard them since.
andrewtodd is offline  
post #9 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
andrewtodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
What kind of stuff are you going to be listening to?

What qualities do you like in speakers?
I remember the KEF reference speakers I heard being incredibly detailed and I'd never heard music sound that good.

It's hard to put into words why I liked the B&W without sounding like an idiot. I don't know if this makes any sense but during a build up in one of the songs I played I almost felt like I'd just been injected with adrenaline. It almost felt like it was live rather than coming from speakers. I liked that it drew me in.

I told you I couldn't explain it without sounding like an idiot.
andrewtodd is offline  
post #10 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 06:10 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
I remember the KEF reference speakers I heard being incredibly detailed and I'd never heard music sound that good.

It's hard to put into words why I liked the B&W without sounding like an idiot. I don't know if this makes any sense but during a build up in one of the songs I played I almost felt like I'd just been injected with adrenaline. It almost felt like it was live rather than coming from speakers. I liked that it drew me in.

I told you I couldn't explain it without sounding like an idiot.
Sometimes "detail" comes from speakers that have a treble emphasis in the frequency response, but that can be fatiguing and hard with extended listening.

Sometimes, it comes from treble that is undistorted, smooth sounding, and extended, so that there can be plenty of trouble without the fatigue or harshness.

Also, dynamic capability helps a lot, because speakers that can't play loud will compress and cover up the detail.

Another thing that sometimes comes into play is that some speakers can be hard to drive, causing some amplifiers to strain and making the speakers sound different.

I find that the newer B&W 80x series speakers have really clean and clear midrange and treble that puts them above most speakers.

The Legacy Aeries has even better midrange and treble, plus nicer bass and imaging, which is why I think that they surpass the B&W 80x by a nice margin. A potential problem, though, is that they are open baffle, which means they may not do so well behind an AT screen. B&W 80x speakers aren't really designed for that either. The Legacy Theater Towers might be worth checking out, but I haven't heard them or heard anyone talk about them, yet.

Based on your description and that of others, I'd recommend checking out:
JTR Noesis 212 - Descriptions have been pretty similar to B&W 80x, but with better directivity control and more efficient, which is great for home theater and behind a screen.
JTR Noesis 215 - Similar to the 212s, but with a bit better imaging and directivity control (with the larger, constant directivity horn) and more bass.
Danley SM60F - Even better imaging and directivity (synergy horn) and very efficient and dynamic, like the JTRs. Many of the other Danley models don't have the extended treble that will be up there with the B&W 80x speakers and JTRs. These, however, are designed to have that audiophile sound, with extended treble.

I'm not sure what to think of the Seatons for you. Since they are active, with built in amps and active crossovers, they should be extremely clean and dynamic sounding. However, people don't seem to be falling in love with the imaging or treble as often, like they do with these other speakers. Maybe they just aren't as common.

The JBL M2s sound like they might be the best of everything:

(includes comparison to B&W 800s)
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=3122


A couple more things to get:
4 good subs.
Some sort of good room EQ setup that gives you a lot of control, like Dirac (Datasat, Emotiva, Theta, PC), Trinnov, JRiver (PC) (perhaps with Audiolense XO or Dirac Live), or MiniDSP. You are obviously very picky about the sound, and it will really help to have the right tools to dial in the sound that you want.

Last edited by rcohen; 08-04-2014 at 06:23 AM.
rcohen is offline  
post #11 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 07:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,315
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
Thank you for the replies. They contain exactly the kind of information I was hoping for.


What page of your thread do you discuss speakers other than subs Archaea? Or do I need to open other threads you have linked in that thread?
Hit the links labeled Speakers at the bottom. Most of the meets have a JTR entry of some sort because Jeff typically attends nearly all of the G2Gs. You can read mine, and more importantly - many other opinions of how the various speakers performed in head to head lineups.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #12 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
andrewtodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you for the very detailed response rcohen. You've got my head going in all sorts of directions now. The JBL is out of my price range unless I can find some used. I'll be seriously considering the Danley SM60F. It's rare to hear people say they prefered other speakers to their own. To read 212 owners say they prefered the Danley speakers says a lot. Do you know where to buy these and how much they cost? I can't find the information anywhere.

You said that the B&W speakers are not ideal for placing behind a screen. Would you say the same about KEF reference? I'm leaning towards professional speakers again, however, I would like to keep my options open for now since I've never heard a professional speaker in a small room. They are even harder than KEF to demo.

Archaea, I've read through a few of your audio meet threads before and just spent a while reading a couple of the others. The information in the threads is immensely helpful and I wouldn't have even been considering the 212s without it, however, I don't recall seeing a commercial audiophile speaker on any of the lists. Has there ever been a meet that compares the commercial speakers to the professional ones?

Thanks again.
andrewtodd is offline  
post #13 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 11:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,315
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 583 Post(s)
Liked: 800
Those are harder to find...people who spend $15k+ on speaker don't typically like

1) removing those speakers (fancy veneer) from their safe homes
2) possibility of being shown up by speakers that cost considerably less $


However some of the Gorilla83 meets as of late have been mixing in some higher cost equipment. Triad Platinums participated in some testing against Behringer 215 and DIY 1099's this weekend as well as the Yorkville Unity 215. It's a bit of a cross comparison, but the Yorkville and the JTR have been compared several times before in several of these meets. I'm not aware of B&W stuff being compared directly against much of the ID or DIY world so far. I'm not as versed in the speaker comparisons though as the subwoofer comparisons. Once you hit a certain level of speaker performance in my mind - your doing okay and better off spending your money elsewhere. For me - it was the JTR 228HT - but there are a lot of higher quality speakers at these meets I could be satisfied with. I just want a quality speaker that sounds absolutely clean to Reference and potentially a bit higher for the occasional demo session, and doesn't come off as too bright or harsh at louder volumes. The JTR are consistently (at every meet) among the best I've heard. If a speaker starts breaking up before reference, sounds tiny or like tin at higher volumes it falls off my radar fast. I don't see where it gets that much better beyond that point (again my opinion) in order to justify the greater cost. The other little nuances - to include most of the other speaker characteristics are generally very subjective, and can be modified fairly easily with minimal EQ. I prefer to spend my money on subwoofer capability. Good luck in your search!
RMK! likes this.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Last edited by Archaea; 08-04-2014 at 11:26 AM.
Archaea is online now  
post #14 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 12:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked: 86
This is going off reading comparisons second hand, and looking at the designs, so take it with a pound of salt.


The JTR Noesis line are d'appolito designs, which have good directivity control, which contributes to good imagine and reduces problems from floor and ceiling reflections.


The JTR 228 and 212 appear to be exponential horns, which are known to give a very smooth frequency response.


The JTR 215 has a large constant directivity horn, which is known for even better directivity control and imaging. Also, the larger woofers allow them to run full range, if desired.


The Danley SM60F has a multi-entry "synergy" horn, which gives perhaps the best possible directivity and imaging. I'm not sure if the Danley can keep up with the 212 in terms of bass, and very unlikely that it can keep up the 215.


Reading the meetup threads, it sounds like the JTR and Danleys are very close. The Danleys pull ahead in rooms without much sound treatment, where the directivity control is a critical strength. Some have said that the JTRs give slightly better midbass.


Danleys also have very impressive phase plots. I haven't seen those for the JTRs.


All have concentric midrange and treble drivers, like the KEFs.
RMK! likes this.
rcohen is offline  
post #15 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 12:25 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,012
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 307 Post(s)
Liked: 387
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
Thank you for the very detailed response rcohen. You've got my head going in all sorts of directions now. The JBL is out of my price range unless I can find some used. I'll be seriously considering the Danley SM60F. It's rare to hear people say they prefered other speakers to their own. To read 212 owners say they prefered the Danley speakers says a lot. Do you know where to buy these and how much they cost? I can't find the information anywhere.
Not rcohen but the Danley's are sold through Dealers. If you go to the Danley Sound Labs site you can locate a dealer near you. They are normally pro audio dealers and don't have showrooms.

The MSLP of the SM60F in 2010 was $2590/ea passive. I have heard them at a forum members home and they were very nice speakers. I had Triple 12HT's at the time and I felt they were comparable. I think he liked his Danleys better but they were approx $1K more each so I hope so ...

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #16 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 01:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked: 86
rcohen is offline  
post #17 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 01:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,885
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 590
Along these lines, some other speakers I would look at are the JBL LSR3662 monitors. Perfect FR, excellent axial response, big dynamics, and THX pm3 certified (meaning they can be used to create, not just playback, THX soundtracks). Harman uses these in their reference room, and Harman has what may well be the most respected audio R&D dept in the world. They ain't pretty speakers, but at $1550 each, the bang-for-the-buck is serious.

Another speaker that has my attention in this price is the Pi Four with upgraded drivers. Very nice measurements. Very easy to drive, you do not need a separate amp with these, and that combined with their high sensitivity means any AVR can make them blaze. With upgraded drivers and a nice finish, they would be a bit under 2k. The upgraded mid bass driver, the JBL 2226, is considered to be one of the best.

I have heard the B&W 802s, they were very good with vocals from what I heard. Someone else mentioned Legacy Aeris, if you can not afford the JBL M2s, they Aeris will be out of budget as well. Those are terrific speakers though. 802s, Aeris, and JBL M2s are some of my dream speakers.
Archaea likes this.
shadyJ is online now  
post #18 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
andrewtodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you all so much for the advise. It looks like I have a lot of auditioning to do.

Is it possible any of these speakers would be too big for my room (20x14x9.5)? It may have been the conditions of the room the B&Ws were playing in but they sounded too large. Obviously since I don't know a lot about audio, the issues I was hearing may have been something else all together. I prefered the 803s.

shadyJ, I could maybe (only maybe) persuade my wife to let me spend 10k for a front 3 but it's more than likely any speakers that cost more than that would have to be bought used. I was hoping to stay 7k or under.
andrewtodd is offline  
post #19 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 05:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
Thank you all so much for the advise. It looks like I have a lot of auditioning to do.

Is it possible any of these speakers would be too big for my room (20x14x9.5)? It may have been the conditions of the room the B&Ws were playing in but they sounded too large. Obviously since I don't know a lot about audio, the issues I was hearing may have been something else all together. I prefered the 803s.

shadyJ, I could maybe (only maybe) persuade my wife to let me spend 10k for a front 3 but it's more than likely any speakers that cost more than that would have to be bought used. I was hoping to stay 7k or under.
I'm not sure what you mean about sounding "too large." Can you be more specific about what you liked and didn't like? Too large isn't a typical problem, aside from physically taking too much space.
rcohen is offline  
post #20 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 05:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
shadyJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6,885
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked: 590
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
Thank you all so much for the advise. It looks like I have a lot of auditioning to do.

Is it possible any of these speakers would be too big for my room (20x14x9.5)? It may have been the conditions of the room the B&Ws were playing in but they sounded too large. Obviously since I don't know a lot about audio, the issues I was hearing may have been something else all together. I prefered the 803s.
Too large- sounds like a setup issue. The sound stage of a speaker can change according to placement, toe-in, equalization, listening position, etc... The B&W 802ds I heard were killer, exquisite sound stage, and they were in a small room. I don't think any of the speakers mentioned so far are actually too large for your room, although some might be easier to integrate than others.

Btw, if you do end up with these high powered speakers like Pi or JTR, some very affordable surround speaker which will keep up with them are the JBL pro surround speakers, specifically the 8320, 8340, and 8350, all of which clock in at $1100 or less for a pair. These guys are all THX certified, so they should do the trick. Easy to mount, and they easy to drive on an AVR thanks to a reasonable impedance load.
shadyJ is online now  
post #21 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
andrewtodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
I'm not sure what you mean about sounding "too large." Can you be more specific about what you liked and didn't like? Too large isn't a typical problem, aside from physically taking too much space.
I think it must have been a room setup issue as shadyJ suggests. The sound was very similar to the 803s but at times was a bit overbearing. The base distracted me from the detail once or twice so they were not as enveloping. I could certainly hear some improvements over the 803s but even if the low levels weren't an issue, I'm not sure they'd have been worth 50% more.

I wish the professional speakers were a little easier to audition. I've only been able to hear the 802/803s which is why I was looking for comparisons with them.
andrewtodd is offline  
post #22 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 07:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,838
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post

It was the 802s and 803s I was listening to doublewing11. Does your statement about there being much better choices still apply?
First, room has more impact that speaker.......so be aware when you listen to speakers. With that said.....

I spent two plus years auditioning various speaker designs in many difference rooms.....some treated, some not.

First speakers I demoed in my journey were B & W 800 series including 800 cinema series which is designed for cinema. Definitive Audio in Seattle, Washington has every single model B&W offers and was able to spend three hours demoing various models. I preferred the 8.2/8.4 cinema series over 800 series diamonds. Problem with B&W speakers is sensitivity......or lack there of.

Since -10 is your typical listening preference, you open many options. You haven't mentioned seating distances which also plays a part is speaker selection.

You mentioned Atmos as a possibility........be careful due requirements for object audio with is quite different in requirements. If you are going to use in-ceiling speakers, you open up many possibilities!

You have mention JTR's as a possibility......at your listening levels, I would say there are much better options for you.......if your into rock concert levels and like to play around all the time near those reference levels......then yes, JTR's would be best bang for buck......at moderate levels, not so much.

Like most have mentioned, you need to audition speakers yourself........don't get enamored by speaker hype....it tends to run rampant around here.
doublewing11 is offline  
post #23 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 07:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,838
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
I remember the KEF reference speakers I heard being incredibly detailed and I'd never heard music sound that good.

It's hard to put into words why I liked the B&W without sounding like an idiot. I don't know if this makes any sense but during a build up in one of the songs I played I almost felt like I'd just been injected with adrenaline. It almost felt like it was live rather than coming from speakers. I liked that it drew me in.

I told you I couldn't explain it without sounding like an idiot.
Detail huh....

Look at Adam Audio Pencils, Columns, or GTC series.....

Ariel 20T V2's are incredibly detailed, but $15,000 per speaker.....never mind.

Triad Gold Monitors are another speaker to look.......
doublewing11 is offline  
post #24 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 07:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
I think it must have been a room setup issue as shadyJ suggests. The sound was very similar to the 803s but at times was a bit overbearing. The base distracted me from the detail once or twice so they were not as enveloping. I could certainly hear some improvements over the 803s but even if the low levels weren't an issue, I'm not sure they'd have been worth 50% more.

I wish the professional speakers were a little easier to audition. I've only been able to hear the 802/803s which is why I was looking for comparisons with them.
Stuff like that can change a lot with the room and placement. You can sort it out with good EQ tools, though.
rcohen is offline  
post #25 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 07:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
raynist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,339
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 132 Post(s)
Liked: 308
I would look into the Yorkville U215's also
raynist is online now  
post #26 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 07:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
doublewing11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Timber Country!
Posts: 3,838
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 91 Post(s)
Liked: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Stuff like that can change a lot with the room and placement. You can sort it out with good EQ tools, though.

Very true.....but eq is not a substitute for quality speaker components and design.
doublewing11 is offline  
post #27 of 63 Old 08-04-2014, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
andrewtodd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Seriously, thank you all so much for the advise. I didn't expect any where near this much feedback but I'll take all I can get and will use it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
First, room has more impact that speaker.......so be aware when you listen to speakers. With that said.....

I spent two plus years auditioning various speaker designs in many difference rooms.....some treated, some not.

First speakers I demoed in my journey were B & W 800 series including 800 cinema series which is designed for cinema. Definitive Audio in Seattle, Washington has every single model B&W offers and was able to spend three hours demoing various models. I preferred the 8.2/8.4 cinema series over 800 series diamonds. Problem with B&W speakers is sensitivity......or lack there of.

Since -10 is your typical listening preference, you open many options. You haven't mentioned seating distances which also plays a part is speaker selection.

You mentioned Atmos as a possibility........be careful due requirements for object audio with is quite different in requirements. If you are going to use in-ceiling speakers, you open up many possibilities!

You have mention JTR's as a possibility......at your listening levels, I would say there are much better options for you.......if your into rock concert levels and like to play around all the time near those reference levels......then yes, JTR's would be best bang for buck......at moderate levels, not so much.

Like most have mentioned, you need to audition speakers yourself........don't get enamored by speaker hype....it tends to run rampant around here.
Because of difficulties in finding speakers to demo I'm trying to whittle it down to couple of speaker models first. Do the majority of people who love the JTRs listen to their music and movies at much higher volumes? When I watch movies and listen to music alone it will be at reference levels but when I'm watching with my wife she'll want it lower.

I will be putting speakers in the ceiling. The room is currently being built and will have an attic above so don't really have any limits outside of the room dimension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Stuff like that can change a lot with the room and placement. You can sort it out with good EQ tools, though.
I will definitely take a look at room EQ tools. I always thought the eq on a good processor was sufficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
I would look into the Yorkville U215's also
I looked into these a few months back but every thread I could find suggested the JTR were a lot better.

One other point is that I've been given Meridian DSP 5500 and 5000 speakers. I've just about ruled them out for movies in the theater (was planning on putting them in the family room) but thought they may be an option for music.
andrewtodd is offline  
post #28 of 63 Old 08-05-2014, 03:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
One other point is that I've been given Meridian DSP 5500 and 5000 speakers. I've just about ruled them out for movies in the theater (was planning on putting them in the family room) but thought they may be an option for music.
Those might be good for either.

For theater, you would want to combine them with subs, to augment their bass, but that's true of just about any speaker, except maybe the JTR 215s.

As long as they can play clean and loud, you can do a lot with EQ.

Ideally, for theater, you'd have 3 identical speakers, though. I'm guessing you only have 2 of each?

What do you use as your source? Do you use a PC, a receiver/pre-amp (which one?), or nothing yet?
rcohen is offline  
post #29 of 63 Old 08-05-2014, 03:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,196
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 255 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtodd View Post
I will definitely take a look at room EQ tools. I always thought the eq on a good processor was sufficient.
Different processors have different tools, and everyone has different thoughts on what is sufficient. I am currently using Dirac for room correction and precisely tuning the EQ to my room and tastes, and that has been very beneficial for me. There are a lot of other options out there, though. YMMV.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FR.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	130.0 KB
ID:	197313  
rcohen is offline  
post #30 of 63 Old 08-05-2014, 04:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Reefdvr27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Stone Harbor, NJ
Posts: 3,008
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 701 Post(s)
Liked: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Different processors have different tools, and everyone has different thoughts on what is sufficient. I am currently using Dirac for room correction and precisely tuning the EQ to my room and tastes, and that has been very beneficial for me. There are a lot of other options out there, though. YMMV.
What are you using for Dirac?
Reefdvr27 is online now  
Reply Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off