SVS Ultra vs. Verus Grand - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 08-03-2014, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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SVS Ultra vs. Verus Grand

I have eyed these 2 for different reasons. I have heard them rated comparably. But I ask for your help here to make the right decision. Here's why I'm looking at these even though it is costly as an upgrade from my Klipsch Reference. I love almost everything about my speakers. Under $1000 for front soundstage, nice looking material for the grill, magnetic grills are fun, and very open and loud soundstage for soundtracks. However the one thing that completely ruins it is dialogue. 30% of the time the dialogue sounds unnatural, instead of "there" it sounds fake as if it is coming out of a box. And who wants that? No setting I do eliminates this. Any way, since I am satisfied with the soundtrack and presence of the front soundstage as is. I'm not even sure if I need $1000 towers. But I def need one

Could someone compare these 2 lines? Here's the positive and negatives in my opinion.

SVS Ultra
+could just go with bookshelfs for "towers" since I have good subwoofers
+love SVS and have a trust level with them
+Ultra line has dozen+ reviews from all accross the expert spectrum and should sound amazing for HT
-really REALLY prefer towers even if I don't need them because I like the "look".
-Ultra towers are very wide, they would fit but I feel they might be overkill for my 13x13 open room

Verus Grand
+love the look
+have benefit of going with Intimus line and still having a year to upgrade if I still want to
-woofers much smaller than what I have now so I fear the soundtrack will feel lacking
-Intimus and Grand line were on sale earlier in the year, so hesitant to pull trigger right now

I'm not stuck with these 2 choices, just ones that I like above the rest I've seen so far. And I've seen many.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #2 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 01:08 AM
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Personally, with the same budget, I would be more interested in the Sierra speakers from Ascend Acoustics or some KEFs. Anyway, from the dialogue problem you describe, you need to rule out a setup issue before you blow a bunch of money on what could very well not be an upgrade at all. One thing I would try is using a phantom center, and see how that affects the dialogue. Since dialogue mostly comes from the center, if the sound improves by taking the center speaker out and using the left/right to carry that sound, than maybe your center speaker is messed up. A 'boxy' sound to me would be a problem with the response. You might try giving the center channel another placement, and re-run Audyssey. If you have vertical placement room for the center, you might try swapping the RC-62 speaker with a upright RB-61 bookshelf speaker. Again, you will want to re-run Audyssey after any change you make. You might want to post a listening position measurement of your RC-62 so we can see the response. That will answer a lot of questions right there. If the problem is room acoustics, you might want to spend money on acoustic treatments instead of new speakers, as upgrading speakers in a bad room will gain you nothing.

If you want a significant performance upgrade in every conceivable way, save up your pennies and get some JBL LSR3662 monitors, $1550 each. Ruler flat response, excellent axial response, enormous dynamics, THX pm3 certified. If you still have dialogue problems after those, you need to get your hearing checked.
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post #3 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 06:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't have a klipsch bookshelf to test. I used to own polk monitor CS2 and never had this problem before. Same room. I've also heard other similar opinions about the RC-62. I will however try this phantom center thing again. I went through this thing several months ago from where I bought it. I might be more insistent this time about a replacement to try. Thank you for your help.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #4 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright I did try the phantom center and it does sound fairly different in tonal quality (not just location of sound). So I will call where I got it and insist on trying a replacement before I look into different speakers. Thank you for your help.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #5 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 06:51 AM
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I recently got some Ultras: bookshelves for the l/r front, center speaker and the surrounds for side surrounds. I really like these speakers and feel they are fantastic for home theater. They seem to have great dynamic range and resolution where I can tell the difference between lossless and lossy soundtracks and can also hear a clear difference between a well mastered one and one that is not that great. I feel dialogue sounds pretty realistic/natural and the speakers for the most part disappear in the room and the bookshelves seem to have a very deep soundstage that reminds me of my bipolar def techs in another room yet they have better imaging than those bipoles.

I went with the bookshelves because I have 2 SVS subs so figured no need to have towers. I was curious of the surrounds would be worth the premium and I feel they are in my set up which is in a dedicated room of around 21'x12.5'x 7'. I had direct radiating guys at my sides before and the ultra surrounds in the bipole configuration just do a better job at ambiance and aren't as easy to localize yet discreet sounds from them still have good placement.

Basically with this setup I now have a cohesive room of sound where before (was using the SVS SBS system. I have kept two SBS bookshelves as my rear surrounds) I had more like areas of sound in the room around the speakers and pans between the front and sides were alright yet nowhere near as good as with the ultras. I also have better height imaging than before where things like birds will actually sound above me instead of being a bit closer to ear level. I really liked my SBS speakers as they were good bang for the buck and felt they were as about as good as my more expensive Def Tech speakers (at least with lossy tracks. Have never heard lossless with my Def Techs) but it is clear having a higher end speaker adds a significant amount to the movie experience with these lossless tracks.

Both SVS and Aperion have the free audition period with free shipping both ways so if you don't mind a little extra work you could try out both options and see what you think.

ROB
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post #6 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Now I called Klipsch and he thinks they are underpowered as to why the dialogue sounds unnatural. Which sucks to hear that I might have spent $1000 on a receiver that can't properly power these speakers.

He sent me a new tweeter but I have a feeling that's not gonna fix it. Either I am underpowered (90w) and need more power or smaller speakers, or my ears just don't like klipsch. Anyway thank you for the help.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #7 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 09:39 AM
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Wow, Klipsch told you they might be underpowered? That either speaks very poorly of that particular customer service rep or of Klipsch as a company. Klipsch brags about their high sensitivity, but 90 watts isn't good enough for their "98 dB sensitive" speaker, huh. I can tell you that is nonsense.

One thing to keep in mind is it could be the room acoustics causing that boxy sound. If the room is sparsely furnished with hard floors, that can be a problem that no speaker upgrade can solve.
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post #8 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
One thing to keep in mind is it could be the room acoustics causing that boxy sound. If the room is sparsely furnished with hard floors, that can be a problem that no speaker upgrade can solve.
+1

I'm currently auditioning speakers in my sparsely furnished with hard wood floors condo and every speaker set I use when played in Pure Direct mode sounds rather boxy. Then when I switch to an auto calibration setting in each case the music all of sudden sounds much more vibrant and dynamic.

So JIC TC if you haven't run an Auto Calibration with that X4000 definitely give that a try.
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post #9 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Room has thick carpeting and a lot of furniture. It might be a problem with my allergies right now. It's possible when my sinus is acting up the forward sound of the klipsch can sound a bit off. I will give it some time before I look to make a switch.

By the way, it's actually 125w so that rep has even less case against m receiver. I think I'll give it some time and if I do demo something it would be more likely to try the intimus line. I don't really need an upgrade, maybe just a switch.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #10 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teremei View Post
Room has thick carpeting and a lot of furniture. It might be a problem with my allergies right now. It's possible when my sinus is acting up the forward sound of the klipsch can sound a bit off. I will give it some time before I look to make a switch.

By the way, it's actually 125w so that rep has even less case against m receiver. I think I'll give it some time and if I do demo something it would be more likely to try the intimus line. I don't really need an upgrade, maybe just a switch.
I have no problem in regards to volume, clarity etc... using 40 watts/channel.

It's not the AVR.

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post #11 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
I have no problem in regards to volume, clarity etc... using 40 watts/channel.

It's not the AVR.
I just find it odd that some times I find it amazing and then all of a sudden I'm listening to dialogue and a disgusted look appears on my face. I agree it's totally not the AVR. I'll give it a listen after my ears get a little unclogged and if I still don't like it I'll demo something in the same price range with a dome tweeter instead. I briefly thought "why not go top of the line" but since dialogue is the only thing I'm dissatisfied with. I think I would be pleased with something in the same tier as what I got. No need to move up, just move over maybe.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #12 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 04:32 PM
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I recently received my ultras (apr) to replace my klipsch syngery fs2 system. And I know it's not apples to apples, but the differences is night and day. I can say that my ultras seems louder. Even if the printed effiency (sp) is lower. Not trying to steal the tread but there is a crappy utube vid of my ultras in motion, filmed off if my iPhone so the audio on the vid is crappy. But if you do check the vid you will notice the dialog which was you main conceren. That is up front and you can really hear it. I you have 2 mins check it out. Hope this helps



James
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post #13 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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The reference series is a step up from the synergy. I'm not surprised you notice a difference jumping from synergy to $1000 ea. speakers. I have no doubt I would notice a difference too. Just not sure I want to spend $2800 to hear that difference. I might spend that much some day in the future, but not now.

Plus the Grands were on sale for $800 and I'd venture to guess the center was on sale. I already called and they won't match it. So it's impossible pulling the trigger knowing I could have saved $600 on their top of the line. They are coming out with something new next year so it's something I'll keep an eye on at least.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #14 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 05:12 PM
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If your a retiring svs customer you can get I believe a 5% discount which in
Sent much something like 949 each which is still 150 more the aperion.

But either way I bet you can't go wrong happy hunting. I had the same problem when I decieded to bite the bullet.
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post #15 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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If your a retiring svs customer you can get I believe a 5% discount which in
Sent much something like 949 each which is still 150 more the aperion.

But either way I bet you can't go wrong happy hunting. I had the same problem when I decieded to bite the bullet.
What did you bite the bullet on?

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #16 of 22 Old 08-04-2014, 07:24 PM
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Getting the ultras I was going back and forth for about 6 months before I said screw it and bought them. I haven't looked back since
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post #17 of 22 Old 08-05-2014, 02:41 AM
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Don't like the look of the towers, so I'd probably get the standmounts. The surrounds are a bit expensive though, I wouldn't pay double for surrounds than the fronts.

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post #18 of 22 Old 08-05-2014, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't like the look of the towers, so I'd probably get the standmounts. The surrounds are a bit expensive though, I wouldn't pay double for surrounds than the fronts.
Right and I like the look of the Ultra's better + eventually adding matching surrounds would be cheaper. I'm gonna wait and see what Aperion comes out with next spring. It would be nice if SVS came out with a lower tier speaker set. Maybe something smaller in the $700 per tower range.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #19 of 22 Old 08-05-2014, 05:12 AM
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Also I'm not too sure about the 8" woofer design in a lower enclosure, I had speakers like that and I think it was a bit disjointed. it was more like having a subwoofer, rather than extension of the speaker.

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post #20 of 22 Old 08-08-2014, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Also I'm not too sure about the 8" woofer design in a lower enclosure, I had speakers like that and I think it was a bit disjointed. it was more like having a subwoofer, rather than extension of the speaker.
I think it would be fine. The more woofers of various sizes in my room the better. As long as something is there to equalize them. I'll bet it adds to the overall punchiness of the midbass.

I'm leaning giving the SVS Ultras a try, I do love SVS as a company. But I'm probably waiting to see what Aperion comes out with next spring before biting the bullet.

In the meantime I have a replacement tweeter from Klipsch to install in my center.

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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post #21 of 22 Old 08-09-2014, 10:59 PM
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If you really want to know where the problem lies, get a USB mic from partsexpress and measure. It will tell you everything you want to know. It's char and you can future proof on your audio purchases.
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post #22 of 22 Old 08-10-2014, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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If you really want to know where the problem lies, get a USB mic from partsexpress and measure. It will tell you everything you want to know. It's char and you can future proof on your audio purchases.
Yes, perhaps I will do that in between the time of now and when Aperion comes out with their new speakers. Isn't there some software you download to read the measurements?

Sony KDL-70R550A (passive 3D tv)
Denon x4000 (amazing sound correcting software)
Klipsch RF-62IIs (amazing horns)
Klipsch RC-62II (so clear)
Klipsch RS-41IIs (so full)
SVS PC12-NSD + Klipsch RW12d (so boom)
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