JTR 228HT & 8HT Vs Procella P6 and P5 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 08-13-2014, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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JTR 228HT & 8HT Vs Procella P6 and P5

Can the experts here comment on which would be a better system; Dedicated room for movies and music, don't have any soundproofing. I believe price range is pretty much the same for both brands for the speakers mentioned below.

LCR: JTR 228HT or Procella P6

Surrounds: JTR Slanted 8HT or Procella P5

Subs: Two (should not be more than $3500 for both), haven't decided on the brand.


Are they both good or is one clearly a winner over the other? My budget doesn't allow me to go any higher on either brand. If there are other brands (Triads or Other B-Stock speakers) in the same price range with better performance, let me know. Thanks
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post #2 of 20 Old 08-14-2014, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Can the experts here comment on which would be a better system; Dedicated room for movies and music, don't have any soundproofing. I believe price range is pretty much the same for both brands for the speakers mentioned below.

LCR: JTR 228HT or Procella P6

Surrounds: JTR Slanted 8HT or Procella P5

Subs: Two (should not be more than $3500 for both), haven't decided on the brand.


Are they both good or is one clearly a winner over the other? My budget doesn't allow me to go any higher on either brand. If there are other brands (Triads or Other B-Stock speakers) in the same price range with better performance, let me know. Thanks
Thoughts guys?
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post #3 of 20 Old 08-14-2014, 08:26 AM
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I think you would need to step up to a higher Procella speaker to get the same kind of performance of JTR. The JTR are going to play louder, have better dynamics, and won't need external amplification to hit reference levels. I would go with the JTR, it's hard to beat their value.
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post #4 of 20 Old 08-14-2014, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
I think you would need to step up to a higher Procella speaker to get the same kind of performance of JTR. The JTR are going to play louder, have better dynamics, and won't need external amplification to hit reference levels. I would go with the JTR, it's hard to beat their value.
Thanks Transmaniacon. Is the difference huge or just subtle?


I have heard good things about Procella; so are the P5 and P6 just average in front on Noesis 228 and 8HT?
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post #5 of 20 Old 08-14-2014, 12:24 PM
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Procella makes some fantastic speakers, I had the pleasure of finally hearing them last year and if you have the budget, they are a great choice. I think however you can get more bang for your buck with JTR. Go post in the JTR thread and see if anyone has compared them head to head, I suspect you would need to step up to the P8 or P610 to get something more comparable.

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post #6 of 20 Old 08-14-2014, 12:57 PM
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You really need to audition both speakers yourself.......don't rely on anyone else but you and your ears.

With no treatments, both speakers are good choices due to dispersion. I've heard Noesis 212's and are fine speakers for the money.

On your sub front given budget of $3,500, you are much better off building four subs yourself! If you use new Dayton UM-18 quite possible to do so with half that budget. If you want world class bass, then four UXL-18's with a Peavey or Crest 7500/7.5 would be around budget........four is much better for overall room response seat to seat than two.

Good luck!
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post #7 of 20 Old 08-15-2014, 09:18 PM
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The kc guys put the Procella p8 up against the JTR 212ht on two occasions. Once in the 2012 speaker meet in the park. Once at jedimastergrants house. On both occasions the JTR were superior by all accounts that I'm aware of, even the Procella's owner.
You may have to go to a higher end Procella to be competitive.

Carp, jedimastergrant, stitch1, and Randy Bessinger did the most recent comparison. I heard the two at the park in 2012.

Probably pm the guys for there take. Procella is a good speaker, but JTR drivers are of higher quality and have less overhead, since JTR is a one man show.

As to JTR vs JTR

For cinema use I could not tell the difference between the 212 and the 228. We've tested. For music I can. The 212ht have a larger "front wall soundstage". The 228 more focused smaller soundstage. This soundstage difference reveals itself with two channel music, not cinema use. The 212ht compression driver is the best I've ever heard and its clarity and lower crossover gives it another edge for music.


212ht to 228ht comparison:
For movie clips three people said they couldn't tell the difference and one (carp), owner of 212ht, said he could.
For music, however, three of the four blind auditiners consistently liked the 212ht better, only one liked the 228ht better (stitch1)

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post #8 of 20 Old 08-16-2014, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
The kc guys put the Procella p8 up against the JTR 212ht on two occasions. Once in the 2012 speaker meet in the park. Once at jedimastergrants house. On both occasions the JTR were superior by all accounts that I'm aware of, even the Procella's owner.
You may have to go to a higher end Procella to be competitive.

Carp, jedimastergrant, stitch1, and Randy Bessinger did the most recent comparison. I heard the two at the park in 2012.

Probably pm the guys for there take. Procella is a good speaker, but JTR drivers are of higher quality and have less overhead, since JTR is a one man show.

As to JTR vs JTR

For cinema use I could not tell the difference between the 212 and the 228. We've tested. For music I can. The 212ht have a larger "front wall soundstage". The 228 more focused smaller soundstage. This soundstage difference reveals itself with two channel music, not cinema use. The 212ht compression driver is the best I've ever heard and its clarity and lower crossover gives it another edge for music.


212ht to 228ht comparison:
For movie clips three people said they couldn't tell the difference and one (carp), owner of 212ht, said he could.
For music, however, three of the four blind auditiners consistently liked the 212ht better, only one liked the 228ht better (stitch1)
Interesting take......

My experience with 212's were they were beamers......ie. narrow dispersion. It was easy for me to move side to side and hear subtle variations ie move out of sweet spot.

If you are talking full and encompassing sound stage, I felt Triads had edge in that department over 212's.
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post #9 of 20 Old 08-16-2014, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Interesting take......

My experience with 212's were they were beamers......ie. narrow dispersion. It was easy for me to move side to side and hear subtle variations ie move out of sweet spot.

If you are talking full and encompassing sound stage, I felt Triads had edge in that department over 212's.

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post #10 of 20 Old 08-16-2014, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Interesting take......

My experience with 212's were they were beamers......ie. narrow dispersion. It was easy for me to move side to side and hear subtle variations ie move out of sweet spot.

If you are talking full and encompassing sound stage, I felt Triads had edge in that department over 212's.
Did you try the extreme toe in approach? When I did that with my 212's the size of the sweet spot increased considerably. However I didn't like the looks of it and since I sit dead center and no one else who regularly sits in the room cares anyway so I went back to a regular toe in approach.

I will say that the 215's cover the room significantly better. The sound is so much more consistent throughout the room similar to the Danley sh50's when I had them in my room. It is very cool to stand up and as you walk around the room the sound doesn't really change. I'm sure if I measured everywhere that wouldn't exactly be the case but subjectively it is.

As far as JTR vs Procellas goes I don't think they are in the same class. That's just my opinion and others may disagree.
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post #11 of 20 Old 08-16-2014, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Interesting take......

My experience with 212's were they were beamers......ie. narrow dispersion. It was easy for me to move side to side and hear subtle variations ie move out of sweet spot.

If you are talking full and encompassing sound stage, I felt Triads had edge in that department over 212's.
I just heard the Triad Platinums and there is nothing at all I liked about them over the 212's. They did not have the dynamics close to the 212. They were much more laid back. They sounded good, but not enough for me to even consider moving away from my 212's. Cannot speak for my 215's.

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post #12 of 20 Old 08-16-2014, 12:54 PM
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I already posted my thoughts in the JTR thread regarding the comparison of the 212 and P8 we did at my place so hopefully you read it there. But, as to the soundstage. You know I didn't really switch seats enough to comment on how well the two speakers sounded as you moved left to right in the room or even front to back. I am primarily concerned with the sweet spot. That is where I sit 99% of the time and no one else cares to that is not really a concern for me. It very well may be a concern for you but I can't comment on it.

Now as far as the soundstage while sitting in the sweet spot.....that is another thing entirely. There was a huge difference. It was more pronounced in the music but I could hear it in the movie clips as well.......easily. Before I bought the 212's I am not sure I realized just how much my Klipsch RF-83's were compressing even at volumes lower than reference. There is something intoxicating about listening at reference and knowing there is zero audible compression. It just makes you want to turn it up more and more.

BTW I should add that I do like the sound of the P8's. It's just that the 212's are that much better.

When you say no sound proofing I assume you mean no sound isolation/proofing i.e. measures to lower to noise floor of the room and to prevent sound from escaping. The sound isolation measures may or may not be important for you. However, you will want to utilize sound treatments probably no matter what speaker you end up going with.
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post #13 of 20 Old 08-16-2014, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I just heard the Triad Platinums and there is nothing at all I liked about them over the 212's. They did not have the dynamics close to the 212. They were much more laid back. They sounded good, but not enough for me to even consider moving away from my 212's. Cannot speak for my 215's.
I agree, the Triads sounded nice but I would not buy them over the JTR's I heard at carp's or Archaea's.

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post #14 of 20 Old 09-15-2014, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Well looks like JTR 228 clearly win over Procella P6. Will call Jeff soon or maybe wait for year end clearance

3 JTR228 and 4 Slanted 8HT's. Since these will kill the budget, will have to think about making own subs.

Any feedback on Triad silvers? How much do they fall behind JTR 228's? Just trying to see if I can make Triads work and spend a little less cash.

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post #15 of 20 Old 09-15-2014, 08:49 PM
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Well looks like JTR 228 clearly win over Procella P6. Will call Jeff soon or maybe wait for year end clearance

3 JTR228 and 4 Slanted 8HT's. Since these will kill the budget, will have to think about making own subs.

Any feedback on Triad silvers? How much do they fall behind JTR 228's? Just trying to see if I can make Triads work and spend a little less cash.
Stick to the 228's. There will not be an end of year clearance, Jeff does not carry stock. The more likely scenario will be a new year price increase. If you know you want the 228's, don't wait. Not to mention it will take a month or two to get them.
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post #16 of 20 Old 09-16-2014, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Stick to the 228's. There will not be an end of year clearance, Jeff does not carry stock. The more likely scenario will be a new year price increase. If you know you want the 228's, don't wait. Not to mention it will take a month or two to get them.
Thanks.

One concern that I have is at 75 pounds each, will 3 be too heavy for baffle wall? Are 228's good baffle wall speakers?
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post #17 of 20 Old 09-16-2014, 08:36 AM
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Thanks.

One concern that I have is at 75 pounds each, will 3 be too heavy for baffle wall? Are 228's good baffle wall speakers?
They are fine in a baffle wall. Just remember that many believe these speakers (virtually all speakers) image better with some toe in. Your baffle wall construct should take that into consideration.

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post #18 of 20 Old 10-02-2014, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys - some more questions before I drop 10K on something I haven't seen or heard.

228's and 8HT's have a different design..right? (waveguide vs coax). Does not being timbre matched make a difference? Also, does JTR have speakers we could use in ceiling for atmos?
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post #19 of 20 Old 10-03-2014, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Guys - some more questions before I drop 10K on something I haven't seen or heard.

228's and 8HT's have a different design..right? (waveguide vs coax). Does not being timbre matched make a difference? Also, does JTR have speakers we could use in ceiling for atmos?
Although one has a compression driver/waveguide horn the other has a compression driver and the mid driver acts as a waveguide. Both use BMS drivers and should be voiced very similar. And I've heard the Jeff is working on some speakers that could be used as on ceiling and in ceiling speakers for atmos setups.
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post #20 of 20 Old 10-04-2014, 03:13 PM
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THere have been quite a few JTR speakers in the Classified for sale, I would keep an eye out. For the same or a little more money you could probably find a L,C,R 212HT set. Also think SOWK is selling his Seaton Submersives. I would jump on them.

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