Stereo v. Direct Mode Confusion - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 08-22-2014, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Stereo v. Direct Mode Confusion

My subwoofer (modified HSU VTF-2.1 with 250 watt amp) sounds great for movies.

But listening to music, when I select 2 Channel Stereo mode on the AVR, the bass headroom seems to surpass anything the sub could produce (the Polk RTI10s, without subwoofer contribution, seem punchier and have a noticeable headroom improvement). The AVR is rated 120 watts or so with 2 channels driven.

I'd boost the sub in music mode, but it's already level matched to the mains and I'd rather not change sub decibels every time I switch between movies and music.

Does “Stereo” mode automatically bypass the “small” setting of the AVR?
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post #2 of 18 Old 08-22-2014, 07:34 PM
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I would just leave it is direct mode and it will play in stereo because the receiver will play whatever it is fed and pretty much all music is in stereo.
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post #3 of 18 Old 08-23-2014, 05:40 AM
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For music, if you have floorstanders (or standmounts in a smaller room) you may not require, or not like the subwoofer.

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post #4 of 18 Old 08-23-2014, 07:09 AM
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On my Onkyo pre-amp, stereo mode enables bass management, but direct mode disables bass management.

I was accidentally running in direct mode, and trying to figure out why my bass suddenly sucked. Pretty much the opposite experience you had.

I love using subs with music, once they are set up just right, which is tricky.

I tune the frequency response, time alignment, etc. on the sub to make bass on music as punchy and satisfying for music as I can, and leave it that way for both music and movies.
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post #5 of 18 Old 08-23-2014, 09:12 AM
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Keep in mind its not clear what each brand or even model does in stereo, direct or pure-direct mode. Look into your models manual and test. There is no clear rule and if anyone claims there he/she is wrong .

Daniel.

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post #6 of 18 Old 08-23-2014, 09:19 AM
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direct/pure mode also disables room correction and volume correction (like DynamicEQ). It's actually pretty useless.
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post #7 of 18 Old 08-23-2014, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post
direct/pure mode also disables room correction and volume correction (like DynamicEQ). It's actually pretty useless.

Again depends on model, My unit allows for both subwoofer support and room correction (audyssey) and DynamicEQ. I never tried dynamic volume because thats just weird for music.

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post #8 of 18 Old 08-23-2014, 12:06 PM
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In my own setup (amp is Denon AVR4520ci) when I listen to music in direct mode, the AVR bypasses any bass management or audyssey processing. The result is only my FR and FL speakers play when i listen to stereo music. The sub doesnt play at all. Thats the way I prefer to listen to stereo music, ant thats also why I just ordered a pair of DefTech Mythos ST since they have built in subs...

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post #9 of 18 Old 08-23-2014, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
In my own setup (amp is Denon AVR4520ci) when I listen to music in direct mode, the AVR bypasses any bass management or audyssey processing. The result is only my FR and FL speakers play when i listen to stereo music. The sub doesnt play at all. Thats the way I prefer to listen to stereo music, ant thats also why I just ordered a pair of DefTech Mythos ST since they have built in subs...
I am not sure how much settings you can do for the 4520ci in that area. Your second remark is kinda weird you prefer to not have your sub(s) play but also want to move to new speakers that have bigger subs so they do play in pure-direct mode ? Sounds like you want to have subs playing when doing music .

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post #10 of 18 Old 08-23-2014, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post
Again depends on model, My unit allows for both subwoofer support and room correction (audyssey) and DynamicEQ. I never tried dynamic volume because thats just weird for music.

Daniel.
Which model is this?
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post #11 of 18 Old 08-24-2014, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkinHD View Post
My subwoofer (modified HSU VTF-2.1 with 250 watt amp) sounds great for movies.

But listening to music, when I select 2 Channel Stereo mode on the AVR, the bass headroom seems to surpass anything the sub could produce (the Polk RTI10s, without subwoofer contribution, seem punchier and have a noticeable headroom improvement). The AVR is rated 120 watts or so with 2 channels driven.

I'd boost the sub in music mode, but it's already level matched to the mains and I'd rather not change sub decibels every time I switch between movies and music.

Does “Stereo” mode automatically bypass the “small” setting of the AVR?
Don't you think that giving the make and model of the AVR would help people answer this question?
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post #12 of 18 Old 08-24-2014, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post
Again depends on model, My unit allows for both subwoofer support and room correction (audyssey) and DynamicEQ. I never tried dynamic volume because thats just weird for music.

Daniel.
Would seem to negate the very essence of pure/direct modes to add processing....also curious what specific avr you have that does this!

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post #13 of 18 Old 08-24-2014, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post
Which model is this?
Denon AVP, Also the 5308 can do this. The 4520ci has the same brains but they removed some of the funky config options so i am unclear what you can do in this area. I do know sub support for the marantz 8801 is added a few months back and since thats based on the 4520ci would not be shocked to find that on the 4520 too after a update.

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post #14 of 18 Old 08-24-2014, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Would seem to negate the very essence of pure/direct modes to add processing....also curious what specific avr you have that does this!
Thats my point i keep saying this on forums that the direct and pure direct modes are becoming less clear than in the analog period. Even if you think about it its vague to start with since most of our content now starts digital. Several brands now more have the view 'direct' and 'pure-direct' means we turn all off that is not needed but within the end users demands. So for me that might mean turn all off what you can but please do include the subs. How they then do this is a new question .

As Arnyk points out giving the model number and checking is the only way, making generic claims like 'in pure mode this happens' are a thing of the past.

Daniel.
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post #15 of 18 Old 08-24-2014, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post
Don't you think that giving the make and model of the AVR would help people answer this question?
Sony 1040. As far as I can tell, in 2 Channel Stereo, it outputs everything to just the front left and right main speakers with no processing. Ideally it would default the speakers back to large even if you have them set to small but this seems unclear.

Auto Format Direct, on the other hand, when used for 2.0 music, will output to the front left and right main speakers as well as the subwoofer.

Really I was asking how my towers powered by 120 watts each could create more headroom than with the added benefit of a sub, but now I think I may have had the subwoofer turned down too low. Apparently Sony may use an LFE injected subwoofer rumble test tone that is 6-10 db louder than the other speaker tones. So I'll have to experiment some more.
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post #16 of 18 Old 08-24-2014, 08:57 AM
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For what it's worth.

I tried direct or pure, but prefer stereo since the subs are active (cross at 80hz).
Even if my main can go to
http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers...-tower-speaker
"(+/- 3dB) 45-20,000 Hz -- (+/- 6dB) 35-22,000 Hz"
According to the manufacture specs.

Still, I find when listening to music that something is missing on direct/pure.

So I put it on Stereo and have a big smile on my face
Some may differ, but I think Bass sound is a important part of the foundation of music, same with Highs an Mids.

Just my preference.

Ray

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Last edited by darthray; 08-24-2014 at 09:01 AM.
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post #17 of 18 Old 08-24-2014, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkinHD View Post
Sony 1040. As far as I can tell, in 2 Channel Stereo, it outputs everything to just the front left and right main speakers with no processing. Ideally it would default the speakers back to large even if you have them set to small but this seems unclear.

Auto Format Direct, on the other hand, when used for 2.0 music, will output to the front left and right main speakers as well as the subwoofer.

Really I was asking how my towers powered by 120 watts each could create more headroom than with the added benefit of a sub, but now I think I may have had the subwoofer turned down too low. Apparently Sony may use an LFE injected subwoofer rumble test tone that is 6-10 db louder than the other speaker tones. So I'll have to experiment some more.
Keep in mind one option is so use no subwoofer inside the avr but output fullrange but add a subwoofer on the speaker signals. Many brands (i have used REL subs for this) allow this type of hookup. This does of course mean the same delays (well i you can use the phase setting) so integrating takes more work but its doable.

Daniel.

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post #18 of 18 Old 08-24-2014, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post
Keep in mind one option is so use no subwoofer inside the avr but output fullrange but add a subwoofer on the speaker signals. Many brands (i have used REL subs for this) allow this type of hookup. This does of course mean the same delays (well i you can use the phase setting) so integrating takes more work but its doable.

Daniel.
Upping the sub didn't help, but I think I figured out why it was sounding so much better in 2 Channel Stereo mode than Auto Format Direct. 2 Channel Stereo mode must switch the speakers to the large setting automatically since all of the output is going to only 2 speakers. Auto Format Direct, on the other hand, leaves the speakers on their small setting since bass is getting redirected to the sub. So if I want to hear the sub with my music, the solution would seem to be to run music in Auto Format Direct but with the speakers set to full range. At least that seems to sound best from my initial test.
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