Full Home Theater Design, $2k budget! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 08-25-2014, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Full Home Theater Design, $2k budget!

1) I'm looking to spend around $2k for the whole system. But I can be persuaded to spend more...
2) This is for movies and gaming.
3) This is a new home theater room, so I need all new equipment. Ideally, I'd like to have (3) matching front, left, and right speakers, (2) matching rear speakers, and a monster sub that makes babies and puppies cry. Also, need to select a receiver to match all of the speakers. I am open to other setups.
4) Room size is about 36' x 14'. But the main couch/viewing area will be about 12'x14' ft from the projector screen.
5) I would like to keep the system 5.1 surround.
6) Will 16ga speaker wire work fine for this setup?
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post #2 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 02:42 AM
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Energy speakers with an Onkyo receiver would be around your price goal. Around $1100. Speakers are good but they will take time to break in. Use 14 AWG.

Receiver
TX-NR838


Speakers
4 CB-10
1 CC-10
1 ESW-C8

Last edited by Alec88; 08-26-2014 at 03:11 AM.
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post #3 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 03:17 AM
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Working with the budget, a great sub (from an Internet direct company like SVS, Hsu, etc) will cost about $500 - $800 and an AVR (even a refurb model) will cost $200 - which will leave about $1000 - $1300 for the five speakers.

Sub: SVS PB-2000, 500 Watt DSP Controlled, 12" Ported Subwoofer - $800
Check out the Outlet Specials area often to find the same sub (or a previous year model) for $100 or more less:
http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials

AVR: I recommend Denon, better reliability than Onkyo, good amplifiers, and better room correction built-in that most AVRs at the price
DENON AVR-E300 5.1 3D Networking Receiver AirPlay - $189 free ship

Front / Center / Surround: your remaining budget of $1000 to $1300

Paradigm Mini Monitor / Center 1 / Atom - $1380 list, prices at dealer should be 20% less
Paradigm Monitor 7 / Center 3 / Atom - $1800 list, beyond your budget but the tower speakers would give you more impact - I bet you could get these for less than $1400

Paradigm is releasing new speakers soon and there should be deep discounts in the next couple of weeks - go listen to them!


2-Ch (HT L/R): Oppo BDP-105 BD, Adcom GFP-750 pre, Bryston 10B Sub Xover, Bryston 4BSST2 / Paradigm Signature S4 v.2 (L/R), (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Subs)
Home Theater: Bryston 4BSST2 amp / Paradigm CC-590 (C), Outlaw 7700 amp / (4) Def Tech UIW-RSSII (LS/RS/LB/RB), Samsung 46” 3D LCD

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post #4 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 03:27 AM
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What speaker "sound" do you like? Slightly bright like the Paradigm? High efficiency horn speakers like JBL?

If you like a "warmer" sound - NHT speakers are very nice and these are not ported so they don't have placement issues like rear ported speakers depending on where you need to place them and how you are mounting them:
Front: NHT Classic Two Bookshelf Speaker - Black - $560 / pr on sale now 15% off
Center: NHT TwoC Center Channel Speaker - $450
Surround: NHT Absolute Wall Speaker - White - $440 / pr


2-Ch (HT L/R): Oppo BDP-105 BD, Adcom GFP-750 pre, Bryston 10B Sub Xover, Bryston 4BSST2 / Paradigm Signature S4 v.2 (L/R), (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Subs)
Home Theater: Bryston 4BSST2 amp / Paradigm CC-590 (C), Outlaw 7700 amp / (4) Def Tech UIW-RSSII (LS/RS/LB/RB), Samsung 46” 3D LCD
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post #5 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 03:44 AM
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The Onkyo NR838 has a much higher multi-channel power output of even the Denon E400.
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post #6 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baconsnout5000 View Post
1) I'm looking to spend around $2k for the whole system. But I can be persuaded to spend more...
2) This is for movies and gaming.
3) This is a new home theater room, so I need all new equipment. Ideally, I'd like to have (3) matching front, left, and right speakers, (2) matching rear speakers, and a monster sub that makes babies and puppies cry. Also, need to select a receiver to match all of the speakers. I am open to other setups.
I would spend more than $2000 - since you want bass

The Boston RS260 - new in the box at AC4L
Look at 5 each for your front 3 and surrounds
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...h-black/1.html

http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf...grilleoff.jpeg

Subwoofers - 2 each (since you want bass)
HSU VTF-3
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk4.html

Or, SVS PB-2000
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-2000

Receiver - Denon X2000
New at Crutchfield
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVX2...9273265&awdv=c

Refurb at AC4L
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...airplay/1.html
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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30

Last edited by zieglj01; 08-26-2014 at 04:37 AM.
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post #7 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 05:00 AM
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I would skip the Energy sub, an 8" in a room that size is not going to do diddly. Onkyo is a fine choice, but recommending a $1000 receiver is not a good way to spend your money. If you want a new receiver, the Denon AVR-X2000 is $399 at Crutchfield, but you can save some money buying a refurbished unit at www.accessories4less.com.

I like NHT, but I think you need something a bit more capable for a home theater. I would look at Ascend Acoustics, the CMT-340 is an excellent choice for home theater, and offers great dynamics, clarity, and output. Three across the front gives you a very capable sound stage, and I would pair that with a couple Rythmik LV12R. You get a discount for buying dual subs, as well as buying these brands together. This puts you a couple hundred over, but I think it would be well worth it. Surrounds don't need to match, and something like the Polk OWM3 would work fine. The CBM-170 or HTM-200 from Ascend are good options for surrounds, but more expensive.

If you want a true theater speaker, with better dynamics and output than anything in this thread, look at the Chane Theater Ten.
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post #8 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 08:11 AM
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I'd strongly consider DIY / AIY (Assemble it yourself)

You can get a really, really nice system for 2k DIY. But a very mediocre system for 2k commercially.


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post #9 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 08:15 AM
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Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains

Get these or the smaller B212XL as your mains, you can't beat them for the price or anything that's many times more expensive. I have the B212XL for my LCR they are amazing! Running JBL 8330A's for my surrounds and a custom setup for my subs to reduce the boom because I'm in am in an apartment.
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post #10 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 10:12 AM
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If you can go DIY, that would, of course, be a much better value. If you are not prepared to do that and just want to keep it simple, for your criteria, I would go with a Hsu Hybrid 3 5.1 package and a Yamaha v675 which is at a very good price right now on Amazon. That is a $2k shipped setup with a big sub. Still, with your room size, you will need optimal subwoofer placement to get good bass, so hopefully you have freedom to place the sub in different spots to get the most from it. As for 16 AWG being good enough, here is a chart you will want to follow for length/gauge:
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post #11 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec88 View Post
The Onkyo NR838 has a much higher multi-channel power output of even the Denon E400.
It may have, but the extra 40W / channel isn't going to make a significant difference and the best price for it on Google right now is $800. Even a refurb of the Onkyo TX-NR828 on Accessories4Less.com is $600. And Onkyo has been having a lot of reliability issues for the last couple of years - literally hundreds of posts on AVS about it.

For this budget, that is way too much to spend on electronics - the OP would be much better served spending as little as possible on an AVR and maximizing the budget for speakers. The Denon has discrete amplifiers, Audyssey room correction, and costs less.

2-Ch (HT L/R): Oppo BDP-105 BD, Adcom GFP-750 pre, Bryston 10B Sub Xover, Bryston 4BSST2 / Paradigm Signature S4 v.2 (L/R), (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Subs)
Home Theater: Bryston 4BSST2 amp / Paradigm CC-590 (C), Outlaw 7700 amp / (4) Def Tech UIW-RSSII (LS/RS/LB/RB), Samsung 46” 3D LCD
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post #12 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone who replied, very helpful.

-AV Receiver: I went ahead and purchased the Denon AVR-X2000 on crutchfield earlier today.
-Speaker wire: Bought some 14ga wire, all distances are pretty short so that look to be more than enough.

I did some research last night before I got any replies and found the "Hybrid 15, 5.1" package on HSU. This looks like it has a larger subwoofer than the one shadyJ linked to. Looks to be about $1,600 + $273 shipping. What do you guys think? I like the idea of keeping the whole package simple.
Hybrid 15 - 5.1 Package

Any ideas on how the VTF-15H sub would compare to the SVS PB-2000 (that seems to be a forum favorite)?
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post #13 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
It may have, but the extra 40W / channel isn't going to make a significant difference and the best price for it on Google right now is $800. Even a refurb of the Onkyo TX-NR828 on Accessories4Less.com is $600. And Onkyo has been having a lot of reliability issues for the last couple of years - literally hundreds of posts on AVS about it.

For this budget, that is way too much to spend on electronics - the OP would be much better served spending as little as possible on an AVR and maximizing the budget for speakers. The Denon has discrete amplifiers, Audyssey room correction, and costs less.
It's still around the stated budget. The Denon and Yamaha have poor amplifier sections and may struggle to put out any decent ambience, especially in a larger room. I would be surprised if they put out more that 50 watts with 5 channels.
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post #14 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baconsnout5000 View Post
Thank you everyone who replied, very helpful.

-AV Receiver: I went ahead and purchased the Denon AVR-X2000 on crutchfield earlier today.
-Speaker wire: Bought some 14ga wire, all distances are pretty short so that look to be more than enough.

I did some research last night before I got any replies and found the "Hybrid 15, 5.1" package on HSU.
Good choices - also The Denon receivers do well in 5.1 surround mode - they do measure nice
HT Labs (Sound & Vision) have measured several of their receivers.

Example the Denon 1913
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...-labs-measures

Enjoy the Adventure
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__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #15 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baconsnout5000 View Post
Thank you everyone who replied, very helpful.

-AV Receiver: I went ahead and purchased the Denon AVR-X2000 on crutchfield earlier today.
-Speaker wire: Bought some 14ga wire, all distances are pretty short so that look to be more than enough.

I did some research last night before I got any replies and found the "Hybrid 15, 5.1" package on HSU. This looks like it has a larger subwoofer than the one shadyJ linked to. Looks to be about $1,600 + $273 shipping. What do you guys think? I like the idea of keeping the whole package simple.
Hybrid 15 - 5.1 Package

Any ideas on how the VTF-15H sub would compare to the SVS PB-2000 (that seems to be a forum favorite)?
The VTF15h will surely have more output. However, if you are willing to go overbudget for a monster sub, the VTF15h is a beast. Brent Butterworth has measured both subs, PB2000 and VTF15h
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post #16 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec88 View Post
It's still around the stated budget. The Denon and Yamaha have poor amplifier sections and may struggle to put out any decent ambience, especially in a larger room. I would be surprised if they put out more that 50 watts with 5 channels.
Why do you think Denon and Yamaha have poor amplifiers, wit respect to their equally priced competition? I haven't seen or heard anything to suggest that is the case.
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post #17 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
Why do you think Denon and Yamaha have poor amplifiers, wit respect to their equally priced competition? I haven't seen or heard anything to suggest that is the case.
They're better suited for smaller satellite speakers though. This is from a recent test of the Denon. That's a cut of almost half the power.

Denon X2000

2 channels (8 ohm) 104 watts
5 channels (8 ohm) 55 watts
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post #18 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 05:39 PM
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That power output is pretty much in line with every other amplifier of its price range. If you know of a surround sound AVR that does significantly better, tell us about it.
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post #19 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
That power output is pretty much in line with every other amplifier of its price range. If you know of a surround sound AVR that does significantly better, tell us about it.
Sure I understand, but my point was that they would be better matched to smaller speakers. S&V and some other AV sites have a few tests of other similarly priced receivers that perform better power wise.
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post #20 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 06:08 PM
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I don't quite agree with you on that point either. Larger speakers tend to be more sensitive, and so uses less current for the same amount of output. Smaller speakers do not do as well with low power amps because they need so much more energy to achieve the same loudness level.
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post #21 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 06:44 PM
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Sounds like a very good system you are putting together. HSU and SVS have always had good reputations for both their subs and service. Do your diligent research (seems you have), then go for it, I say:-). Crutchfield has a very good reputation. I don't think you will be disappointed with that decisIon. I just purchased a Denon x3000 a few weeks ago, even though my 3 main speakers are 4 ohm. (It's not supposed to power those). So far (hate to say this-fingers crossed :-)), everything is doing great.

Good luck.

Frank, "Still the one"
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post #22 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec88 View Post
They're better suited for smaller satellite speakers though. This is from a recent test of the Denon. That's a cut of almost half the power.

Denon X2000

2 channels (8 ohm) 104 watts
5 channels (8 ohm) 55 watts
Where is the link to that test?

__________________________________________
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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #23 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
I just purchased a Denon x3000 a few weeks ago, even though my 3 main speakers are 4 ohm. (It's not supposed to power those). So far (hate to say this-fingers crossed :-)), everything is doing great.

Good luck.
And look at these tests for the Denon E400 - good power rating
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...ver-test-bench
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__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30
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post #24 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
I don't quite agree with you on that point either. Larger speakers tend to be more sensitive, and so uses less current for the same amount of output. Smaller speakers do not do as well with low power amps because they need so much more energy to achieve the same loudness level.
That's true. Often times though the actual sensitivity of many speakers turn out to be lower than what the speaker makers ratings are. And even if you have decent sensitivity, let's say around 88 - 90, the impedance will also matter, especially if it goes bellow 5 ohms. And many speakers rated at 8 ohms often dip to 4 ohms which also typically requires more power to make the speaker sound its best.
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post #25 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 09:01 PM
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Where is the link to that test?
http://audio.com.pl/testy/denon-avr-x2000:13
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post #26 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
And look at these tests for the Denon E400 - good power rating
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...ver-test-bench
That's a lot better. That's an entire 30 watts higher output per channel while maintaining quality.
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post #27 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec88 View Post
That's a lot better. That's an entire 30 watts higher output per channel while maintaining quality.
What it amounts to, is your unhappy because people are recommending Denon. A lot of
people are happy with their Denon receivers - and there are few complaints.

I have owned Denon and it drove my speakers fine - even low sensitivity ones.

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Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30

Last edited by zieglj01; 08-26-2014 at 10:18 PM.
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post #28 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec88 View Post
That is for their European model - or, it may have been a defective model - and it also looks
like they could not figure out how to measure for 7 channels driven (or, were unable to do so).
For now, I will stick with Sound & Vision and Audioholics measuring process.

The USA Denon models measure better, as can be seen in Sound & Vision (HT Labs).

It is also rare in the real world for all channels to be driven, at full power all at once - and then
it will only be for short periods.
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__________________________________________
Who and Where - is the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Speakers > MB Quart VS05, Boston VS260, Snell K7
Subwoofer > Mordaunt Short Aviano 7
Receiver > Tascam PAR-200, Pioneer VSX-30

Last edited by zieglj01; 08-26-2014 at 10:50 PM.
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post #29 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post
What it amounts to, is your unhappy because people are recommending Denon. A lot of
people are happy with their Denon receivers - and there are few complaints.

I have owned Denon and it drove my speakers fine - even low sensitivity ones.
lol. I never said or even indicated that I had anything against Denon. I've even recommended Denon to people in the past. I was simply pointing out that in my opinion the two receivers mentioned earlier don't have good amps. The OP might spend a lot of money on good speakers that will probably sound better if they had higher quality amplification that wouldn't be much over budget.

It's funny how some people here won't give at least a little credit to someone when they try make valid points. Okay, we'll go by your logic. Get some really expensive high quality speakers and get the cheapest receiver you can find because it won't matter as long as the speakers have a high sensitivity rating and it can put out 30 to 50 watts.

Last edited by Alec88; 08-26-2014 at 11:25 PM.
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post #30 of 39 Old 08-26-2014, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baconsnout5000 View Post
Thank you everyone who replied, very helpful.

-AV Receiver: I went ahead and purchased the Denon AVR-X2000 on crutchfield earlier today.
-Speaker wire: Bought some 14ga wire, all distances are pretty short so that look to be more than enough.

I did some research last night before I got any replies and found the "Hybrid 15, 5.1" package on HSU. This looks like it has a larger subwoofer than the one shadyJ linked to. Looks to be about $1,600 + $273 shipping. What do you guys think? I like the idea of keeping the whole package simple.
Hybrid 15 - 5.1 Package

Any ideas on how the VTF-15H sub would compare to the SVS PB-2000 (that seems to be a forum favorite)?
You did good. Should be a solid setup. Enjoy!
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