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post #1 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking for Feedback on this 7.1 system

Hello,

I put together this system for my first budget home theater system:

Receiver: Denon E400 - $238 refurb
Speakers:
Center: Pioneer SP-C22 $66
Left/Right: Pioneer SP-FS52 $90 each : $180
Surrounds (4): Pioneer SP-BS22: $86 each: $344
Sub: BIC America F12: $184
Total: $1012

Toss in BenQ W1070 for ~$750 and Screen ~200 and I should have a complete room for just under $2k.

Any feedback? Anything I should consider?
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post #2 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 11:54 AM
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Looks good, I might bump up to the X2000 refurb at $319 for the better version of Audyssey.

Those Pioneer BS22 are priced as a pair, so you don't need 4 pairs. I would buy a second F-12 with the savings. Should be a great first system though.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

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post #3 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
Looks good, I might bump up to the X2000 refurb at $319 for the better version of Audyssey.

Those Pioneer BS22 are priced as a pair, so you don't need 4 pairs. I would buy a second F-12 with the savings. Should be a great first system though.

So weird.. I literally was just looking at the X2000. However, it says 7.1, I thought for two subs I would need 7.2?
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post #4 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by gocubs418 View Post
So weird.. I literally was just looking at the X2000. However, it says 7.1, I thought for two subs I would need 7.2?
You don't, unless you are looking at the high end receivers with stereo sub outputs, these receivers just have an internal Y-splitter. The same signal is going to both pre-outs, so just buy your own Y-cable and hook up both subs.

If your budget is a little flexible, I would recommend going with the PB-1000 instead, it would be $100 more than 2 F-12s, but it would sound better and dig deeper. Later on you could add a second, and I think it would be a better way to start.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

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post #5 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
You don't, unless you are looking at the high end receivers with stereo sub outputs, these receivers just have an internal Y-splitter. The same signal is going to both pre-outs, so just buy your own Y-cable and hook up both subs.
Excellent, is there a recommended wall mount for the surrounds?

Also, I was going to pay a guy to set up my projector, screen, and surround sound, however, the room is already pre-wired and I ASSUMED its fairly easy (not sure about hooking up the projector, might want a pro to do that).
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post #6 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by gocubs418 View Post
Excellent, is there a recommended wall mount for the surrounds?

Also, I was going to pay a guy to set up my projector, screen, and surround sound, however, the room is already pre-wired and I ASSUMED its fairly easy (not sure about hooking up the projector, might want a pro to do that).
These work very well with the Pioneers: http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Clam.../dp/B000X9O8SI

Hooking up speakers is very easy, especially since everything is pre-wired. Black to black, red to red, make sure you know your left from right

Here is a good reference for proper placement: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sur...7-1-setup.html

The projector shouldn't be difficult to install, but it might be good to have a pro calibrate it. It isn't cheap, but well worth the money to have it done right.

Living Room
Samsung PN60F5300 | Denon DBP-1611 | Roku 3
Denon AVR-1713 | EMP E55Ti | EMP E56Ci | EMP E5Bi | BIC F-12

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post #7 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 12:19 PM
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I agree with the AVR suggestions above so I won't comment on that other than the Pioneer speakers may need more power than others.

The Pioneer speakers have very good frequency response for their price - in my experience very smooth and sound good with music - they are obviously a good value. But they are not very sensitive and don't have a high maximum SPL (I've never seen a rating - just my experience). Many people that get them complain of a lack of dynamics and "punch" and are soon looking for something "more".

Some questions:

How big is the room?
What kind of material would you be listening to - mostly movies or music?
If mostly movies, dialog or action soundtracks?

That is a highly recommended budget sub, so I would say that is a good choice unless your room is quite large. Then you might need to add a second one or go to a better sub like the SVS-PB100.

Speakers that may be worth considering - Infiity Primus - without sub $784:
Front: Infinity Primus P363 Three-way dual 6-1/2-Inch Floorstanding Speaker (Black, Each) - $172 free ship
Center: Infinity Primus PC351 Three-way dual 5-1/4-Inch Speaker (Each, Center-Channel, Black) - $200 free ship
Surround / Back: Infinity Primus P143 Two-way 4-Inch Bookshelf/Satellite Speaker (Black, Each) $60 free ship

Or Polk RTi series from the Polk Audio Direct store on eBay - without sub $810 :
Front: Polk Audio RTi8 CHERRY Tower Speaker [EACH] - $150 free ship
Center: Polk Audio CSi3 BLACK RTi Center Channel Speaker [NEW] - $160
Surround / Back: Polk Audio RTi4 CHERRY Bookshelf Speakers [NEW/PAIR] - $175/pr free ship

2-Ch (HT L/R): Oppo BDP-105 BD, Adcom GFP-750 pre, Bryston 10B Sub Xover, Bryston 4BSST2 / Paradigm Signature S4 v.2 (L/R), (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Subs)
Home Theater: Bryston 4BSST2 amp / Paradigm CC-590 (C), Outlaw 7700 amp / (4) Def Tech UIW-RSSII (LS/RS/LB/RB), Samsung 46” 3D LCD
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post #8 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 12:25 PM
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I would strongly look into the following for your LCR speakers

Behringer Eurolive B215XL 15" 2-Way as L/R Mains

If they are bit high, go for the B212XL. I'm running 3 right now for my LCR they are amazing. Also to note I'd stay away from pioneer speakers and get some more theater level speakers JBL 8320's or JBL 8330A or JBL 8340A depending on your budget.
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post #9 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
I agree with the AVR suggestions above so I won't comment on that other than the Pioneer speakers may need more power than others.

The Pioneer speakers have very good frequency response for their price - in my experience very smooth and sound good with music - they are obviously a good value. But they are not very sensitive and don't have a high maximum SPL (I've never seen a rating - just my experience). Many people that get them complain of a lack of dynamics and "punch" and are soon looking for something "more".

Some questions:

How big is the room?
What kind of material would you be listening to - mostly movies or music?
If mostly movies, dialog or action soundtracks?

That is a highly recommended budget sub, so I would say that is a good choice unless your room is quite large. Then you might need to add a second one or go to a better sub like the SVS-PB100.

Speakers that may be worth considering - Infiity Primus - without sub $784:
Front: Infinity Primus P363 Three-way dual 6-1/2-Inch Floorstanding Speaker (Black, Each) - $172 free ship
Center: Infinity Primus PC351 Three-way dual 5-1/4-Inch Speaker (Each, Center-Channel, Black) - $200 free ship
Surround / Back: Infinity Primus P143 Two-way 4-Inch Bookshelf/Satellite Speaker (Black, Each) $60 free ship

Or Polk RTi series from the Polk Audio Direct store on eBay - without sub $810 :
Front: Polk Audio RTi8 CHERRY Tower Speaker [EACH] - $150 free ship
Center: Polk Audio CSi3 BLACK RTi Center Channel Speaker [NEW] - $160
Surround / Back: Polk Audio RTi4 CHERRY Bookshelf Speakers [NEW/PAIR] - $175/pr free ship
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
These work very well with the Pioneers: http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Clam.../dp/B000X9O8SI

Hooking up speakers is very easy, especially since everything is pre-wired. Black to black, red to red, make sure you know your left from right

Here is a good reference for proper placement: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/sur...7-1-setup.html

The projector shouldn't be difficult to install, but it might be good to have a pro calibrate it. It isn't cheap, but well worth the money to have it done right.
AHHH, so many choices.... Are the two choices you put down much better than my suggested ones?

I don't mind spending a little extra if these are worth it.

14'5" x 17'2".
75% Movies/NFL/ 23%Games/ 2% Music
Not sure on the soundtrack.

Which would you suggest for Movies?

Last edited by gocubs418; 08-27-2014 at 12:46 PM.
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post #10 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
I agree with the AVR suggestions above so I won't comment on that other than the Pioneer speakers may need more power than others.

The Pioneer speakers have very good frequency response for their price - in my experience very smooth and sound good with music - they are obviously a good value. But they are not very sensitive and don't have a high maximum SPL (I've never seen a rating - just my experience). Many people that get them complain of a lack of dynamics and "punch" and are soon looking for something "more".

Some questions:

How big is the room?
What kind of material would you be listening to - mostly movies or music?
If mostly movies, dialog or action soundtracks?

That is a highly recommended budget sub, so I would say that is a good choice unless your room is quite large. Then you might need to add a second one or go to a better sub like the SVS-PB100.

Speakers that may be worth considering - Infiity Primus - without sub $784:
Front: Infinity Primus P363 Three-way dual 6-1/2-Inch Floorstanding Speaker (Black, Each) - $172 free ship
Center: Infinity Primus PC351 Three-way dual 5-1/4-Inch Speaker (Each, Center-Channel, Black) - $200 free ship
Surround / Back: Infinity Primus P143 Two-way 4-Inch Bookshelf/Satellite Speaker (Black, Each) $60 free ship

Or Polk RTi series from the Polk Audio Direct store on eBay - without sub $810 :
Front: Polk Audio RTi8 CHERRY Tower Speaker [EACH] - $150 free ship
Center: Polk Audio CSi3 BLACK RTi Center Channel Speaker [NEW] - $160
Surround / Back: Polk Audio RTi4 CHERRY Bookshelf Speakers [NEW/PAIR] - $175/pr free ship
Think I am going with the Polk set and Denon X2000.

Thanks!!

Last edited by gocubs418; 08-27-2014 at 02:29 PM.
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post #11 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
Looks good, I might bump up to the X2000 refurb at $319 for the better version of Audyssey.

Those Pioneer BS22 are priced as a pair, so you don't need 4 pairs. I would buy a second F-12 with the savings. Should be a great first system though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
I agree with the AVR suggestions above so I won't comment on that other than the Pioneer speakers may need more power than others.

The Pioneer speakers have very good frequency response for their price - in my experience very smooth and sound good with music - they are obviously a good value. But they are not very sensitive and don't have a high maximum SPL (I've never seen a rating - just my experience). Many people that get them complain of a lack of dynamics and "punch" and are soon looking for something "more".

Some questions:

How big is the room?
What kind of material would you be listening to - mostly movies or music?
If mostly movies, dialog or action soundtracks?

That is a highly recommended budget sub, so I would say that is a good choice unless your room is quite large. Then you might need to add a second one or go to a better sub like the SVS-PB100.

Speakers that may be worth considering - Infiity Primus - without sub $784:
Front: Infinity Primus P363 Three-way dual 6-1/2-Inch Floorstanding Speaker (Black, Each) - $172 free ship
Center: Infinity Primus PC351 Three-way dual 5-1/4-Inch Speaker (Each, Center-Channel, Black) - $200 free ship
Surround / Back: Infinity Primus P143 Two-way 4-Inch Bookshelf/Satellite Speaker (Black, Each) $60 free ship

Or Polk RTi series from the Polk Audio Direct store on eBay - without sub $810 :
Front: Polk Audio RTi8 CHERRY Tower Speaker [EACH] - $150 free ship
Center: Polk Audio CSi3 BLACK RTi Center Channel Speaker [NEW] - $160
Surround / Back: Polk Audio RTi4 CHERRY Bookshelf Speakers [NEW/PAIR] - $175/pr free ship

The wife doesn't like the idea of floorstander tower speakers because they don't look as visually appealing as wall mounted fronts.... any alternatives that we can wall mount?
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post #12 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gocubs418 View Post
The wife doesn't like the idea of floorstander tower speakers because they don't look as visually appealing as wall mounted fronts.... any alternatives that we can wall mount?
Even better - you could go with the bigger RTi6 bookshelf speakers in the front and with the money you save get a better center channel speaker and a much better sub - and be able to justify it with the wife! If I have to go with smaller speakers in the front I'm going to need a bigger center and bigger sub to compensate! Honestly, a better center channel will make more difference than big towers for the fronts. All of the RTi series bookshelf speakers have a built in wall mount bracket designed to mount on the wall (see picture below).

Front: Polk Audio RTi6 CHERRY Bookshelf Speakers [NEW/PAIR] - $212 free ship
Center: Polk Audio CSi5 CHERRY RTi Center Channel Speaker - $234 free ship
Surround / Back: Polk Audio RTi4 CHERRY Bookshelf Speakers [NEW/PAIR] - $175/pr free ship

The SVS subs are amazing and will fill in for any mid-bass that may have been there from the front towers. I really prefer the smoother mid-bass and less boomy sound and smaller size of the sealed subs (SB) but the ported subs go deeper and louder - you will have to decide:
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box

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2-Ch (HT L/R): Oppo BDP-105 BD, Adcom GFP-750 pre, Bryston 10B Sub Xover, Bryston 4BSST2 / Paradigm Signature S4 v.2 (L/R), (2) SVS SB12-NSD (Subs)
Home Theater: Bryston 4BSST2 amp / Paradigm CC-590 (C), Outlaw 7700 amp / (4) Def Tech UIW-RSSII (LS/RS/LB/RB), Samsung 46” 3D LCD
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post #13 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocubs418 View Post
The wife doesn't like the idea of floorstander tower speakers because they don't look as visually appealing as wall mounted fronts.... any alternatives that we can wall mount?
I feel your pain, in the same boat. How about the EMP Tek E5Bi? They are "larger" bookshelf speakers that many like. You could mount them with the same mounts Transmaniacon linked to. E5Bi Review. E5Ci center: http://emptek.com/e5ci.php

I'm going to be trying the PSB Image B4 (4" driver) in the next couple of months because the WAF wasn't there for the E5Bi - They were too big. Working on her slowly, over the years I'll wear her down

But if you think there's any way to talk her into floorstanders, those recommended by mtn-tech and Transmaniacon would be excellent choices. My recommendation, such that it is, is to get the best subwoofer you can and work back from there budget-wise. That's how I'm working it at least, based on all the lurking I've done here.

I just installed an X2000 in our very humble HT and so far am very happy with it, I'm sure you will be too.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Scott
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Last edited by smcmillan2; 08-27-2014 at 05:20 PM. Reason: Mixed up my brands
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post #14 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 05:20 PM
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With 2% music, you don't "need" to spend too much on fronts or "towers", I don't think. They are really "affects" speakers for what you are planning. Agree with above poster, mtn tech good center channel and good sub.

Frank, "Still the one"
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post #15 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gocubs418 View Post
The wife doesn't like the idea of floorstander tower speakers because they don't look as visually appealing as wall mounted fronts.... any alternatives that we can wall mount?
I feel your pain, in the same boat. How about the EMP Tek E5Bi? They are "larger" bookshelf speakers that many like. You could mount them with the same mounts Transmaniacon linked to. E5Bi Review. E5Ci center: http://emptek.com/e5ci.php

I'm going to be trying the PSB Image B4 (4" driver) in the next couple of months because the WAF wasn't there for the E5Bi - They were too big. Working on her slowly, over the years I'll wear her down

But if you think there's any way to talk her into floorstanders, those recommended by mtn-tech and Transmaniacon would be excellent choices. My recommendation, such that it is, is to get the best subwoofer you can and work back from there budget-wise. That's how I'm working it at least, based on all the lurking I've done here.

I just installed an X2000 in our very humble HT and so far am very happy with it, I'm sure you will be too.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimpy View Post
With 2% music, you don't "need" to spend too much on fronts or "towers", I don't think. They are really "affects" speakers for what you are planning. Agree with above poster, mtn tech good center channel and good sub.
How about a used SVS PB12 Plus 2 for $500?
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post #16 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 06:59 PM
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How about a used SVS PB12 Plus 2 for $500?
Don't know anything about those (circa 2006 from what I gathered from a quick Google), but if your wife is looking for a new end or coffee table it might be perfect! http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer...-plus-2/page-4 (love the pic with the 8 year-old!) Just don't set anything on it...

I would think for your size room a PB-1000 would be a good choice, as Transmaniacon suggested. Unless that room opens into others?
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post #17 of 21 Old 08-27-2014, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
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I feel your pain, in the same boat. How about the EMP Tek E5Bi? They are "larger" bookshelf speakers that many like. You could mount them with the same mounts Transmaniacon linked to. E5Bi Review. E5Ci center: http://emptek.com/e5ci.php

I'm going to be trying the PSB Image B4 (4" driver) in the next couple of months because the WAF wasn't there for the E5Bi - They were too big. Working on her slowly, over the years I'll wear her down

But if you think there's any way to talk her into floorstanders, those recommended by mtn-tech and Transmaniacon would be excellent choices. My recommendation, such that it is, is to get the best subwoofer you can and work back from there budget-wise. That's how I'm working it at least, based on all the lurking I've done here.

I just installed an X2000 in our very humble HT and so far am very happy with it, I'm sure you will be too.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Scott
Congratulations on your X2000. I just ordered one for audition (I'm sending the Marantz I was auditioning back tomorrow).

As far as the EMP Tek E5Bi speakers, I also have those in my home and am auditioning them now … well … until I send the Marantz back . Beautiful speaker in the red burl, but they are rear ported and wouldn't work well for the O.P. since he is looking for a wall mount speaker. These need to be mounted on stands.

Hey, those E5Bi's are SMALL. Less than 13-inch high x about 7" wide x 8" deep. They look tiny on my stands (of course I got pretty big stands). Anyway best of luck on your new AVR, and the best of luck to the O.P. on whatever he decides on.
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post #18 of 21 Old 08-28-2014, 09:02 AM
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Congratulations on your X2000. I just ordered one for audition (I'm sending the Marantz I was auditioning back tomorrow).
Thanks, hope you like yours as well. Replaced an AVR-1910 and the difference in the Audyssey XT from the old 2EQ is really impressive in my setup. Practically night and day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell
Hey, those E5Bi's are SMALL. Less than 13-inch high x about 7" wide x 8" deep. They look tiny on my stands (of course I got pretty big stands). Anyway best of luck on your new AVR, and the best of luck to the O.P. on whatever he decides on.
I know they're small(er), but still too big to convince the wife. She talked me into Bose Acoustimass ~15 years ago (Ugh!), replaced those with Mirage Nanosat Prestige ~6 years ago. The PSB Image B4 should be a decent step up from the Mirages and still hit WAF size-wise. Next upgrade I'll just order them without her input, be tougher for her to veto if they are already in the house
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post #19 of 21 Old 08-28-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by gocubs418 View Post
Hello,

I put together this system for my first budget home theater system:

Receiver: Denon E400 - $238 refurb
Speakers:
Center: Pioneer SP-C22 $66
Left/Right: Pioneer SP-FS52 $90 each : $180
Surrounds (4): Pioneer SP-BS22: $86 each: $344
Sub: BIC America F12: $184
Total: $1012

Toss in BenQ W1070 for ~$750 and Screen ~200 and I should have a complete room for just under $2k.

Any feedback? Anything I should consider?

You've got more money than you think because the BS22's are sold by the pair, not individually. So that would be $172 for four speakers, not $344.

Afro GT
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post #20 of 21 Old 08-28-2014, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by smcmillan2 View Post
Thanks, hope you like yours as well. Replaced an AVR-1910 and the difference in the Audyssey XT from the old 2EQ is really impressive in my setup. Practically night and day.


I know they're small(er), but still too big to convince the wife. She talked me into Bose Acoustimass ~15 years ago (Ugh!), replaced those with Mirage Nanosat Prestige ~6 years ago. The PSB Image B4 should be a decent step up from the Mirages and still hit WAF size-wise. Next upgrade I'll just order them without her input, be tougher for her to veto if they are already in the house
You just need to move up a size every couple months, start with the B4s, then grab some B5s, and then the B6s.
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post #21 of 21 Old 08-28-2014, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
You just need to move up a size every couple months, start with the B4s, then grab some B5s, and then the B6s.
Now there's a plan!

And they say size doesn't matter...
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