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Old 08-31-2014, 04:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Help needed building a HT setup from scratch

Hi Everyone,

I am new to the forum and have not much understanding about sound systems or what to buy, a typical consumer. So im looking for a surround sound system and i have roughly $3000 to spend. Here are my specs:

*The room size this will be placed in is about 2.7m by 3.7m by 2.8m high.
*I am interested in total sound immersion, i wanna feel like the music is cutting through my body. This is key, i wanna feel like i am one with the music, like i am merged with it.
*I am interested in high-end gear and wanna know what i can get for the price above, i can go higher a little or lower if i can find the right gear that will do the job
*I will be mostly listening to music and watching movies, but i need the setup to be good for both.
*Clarity of music and bass is really important, i am interested in crystal clarity and deep but clean bass, if that makes sense.

I am attracted to the KEF brand, dont know why, but i was looking at the T305 HT setup they have, and wondering what people think of the overally quality of that setup? Would i be better off buying speakers and sub serperatley and doing a DIY job? Would i get more bang for my buck that way?

Im also interested in the LS50. Have looked at maybe buying 4-5 of these and getting the Def Tech Supercube sub that they have, and wondering what peoples thoughts are on that combination?

Also, what is the purpose of a receiver in a HT setup?(sorry in advance for the newbie question, i couldnt find another thread for that)

One more thing, with the budget, what is the most effective way to spend my money? How do i decide whether i need to spend 2k on speakers and the rest on the other parts, or vice versa?

Thank you in advance for all the help, very grateful for this community of knowledgable sound folk!

Last edited by CeremonialWoman; 08-31-2014 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:45 AM
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Regarding your question about a receiver, you need one to provide power to your speakers, and also to connect your other equipment to. For example, you would connect your Blu-Ray/DVD player and cable/satellite box (if you have one) directly the your home theater receiver, and from there could send a video signal to your TV.

You have a nice budget to work with. I'll let some of the more seasoned experts on here give you some specific advice on speakers, etc. For $3000 you should be able to get a very nice surround sound setup.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:46 AM
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Since you gave your room size in meters can we assume you're not in the US?
It makes a difference as to what is available to you.
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the replies, yes I am in Australia. I managed to get a deal online for 5 KEF LS50 speakers for 3300 so I'm prob gonna go with those, but does anyone have any suggestions if I can get something better for cheaper or better quality for the same price.

I've decided to screw the budget and invest another 2k into sub so I'm looking for suggestions on sub, plus a decent receiver.

Just another newb question, what's the diff between a good receiver and a crap one if it's only role is to convert audio and video?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:49 PM
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Can't go wrong with the LS50s, great speaker. For subs, In AUS I would be looking at SVS models, check out the PB12 Plus or PC12 Plus, or better yet, a pair of SVS PB2000s. For a good receiver, you can't really go wrong with the best Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, or Marantz that you can afford.
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't go wrong with the LS50s, great speaker. For subs, In AUS I would be looking at SVS models, check out the PB12 Plus or PC12 Plus, or better yet, a pair of SVS PB2000s. For a good receiver, you can't really go wrong with the best Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, or Marantz that you can afford.
Thank you for the advice, I was thinking of either the pb13 ultra or the PSA xs30 for the sub, but I'm wondering if I go the pb13 if it costs just as much as the def tech super cube which is 2500. Any thoughts on which sub is better?

I'm not looking to spend more than 5-800 on a receiver, I'm hoping that won't affect quality.

A tech question, can I use an ls50 speaker lying down as a centre speaker?
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:37 PM
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Yeah you can use the LS50 horizontally. Its vertical off axis measurements are terrific. Between the PB13 and XS30, I would go for the PB13. It will have much more deep bass output and much cleaner deep bass.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:01 PM
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+1 for SVS..... No brainer
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah you can use the LS50 horizontally. Its vertical off axis measurements are terrific. Between the PB13 and XS30, I would go for the PB13. It will have much more deep bass output and much cleaner deep bass.
Thanks again. I'm leaning towards the pb13s. Will they suit well with the ls50's?

If anybody else could chime in with some AVR options I'd be very thankful. What's the best brand I can get for 500?
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:01 AM
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Yeah the PB13 will work very nicely with the LS50s. It'll be a nice system.
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Old 09-01-2014, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah the PB13 will work very nicely with the LS50s. It'll be a nice system.
Thanks. Will i need a amplifier as well as a receiver? Im confused about this.
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:44 AM
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Sounds like the issue is resolved. But if not, here are some things to consider.

Stereo vs Surround Sound - You will get better for your money if you buy a stereo, but if you buy an AV Receiver, you get Surround Sound ...but... you money is spread much thinner.

If this is a primarily a music system, then get a music system, meaning a stereo. It will still be very good for music.

However, the modern world is a bit more complex, and you do say you want an immersive experience. Today, more music content is being release in a multi-track surround sound version, some on SACD and some on BluRay. But for a true immersive experience, this is probably the way to go, but plan on spending a considerable amount of money to get it at near its best.

If movies are the Top Priority, then an AV Surround system is probably the best choice.

The room at 9 ft (2.7m) x 12 ft (3.7m) is on the small side for a home theater. It is also on the small size for large speakers.

If you have the budget, in terms of stunning clarity, you really can't go wrong with the KEF LS50. Also, since they are not giant speakers, they will work well in a smaller room. Then it become the matter of a Sub; others can disagree, but I would guess a quality sealed Sub like SVS (SB-1000, SB-2000) would do a nice job of it. I think in that room a 10" Sub would be more than enough. I think in that confined space a sealed sub over a ported Sub would be a better choice, but that is not hard and fast, more a matter of opinion.

I think you are on your way to a very fantastic system. Can't be the highly praised LS50, though they are not cheap. So now it is a matter of AV amp and Sub. Don't under-buy on the amp. Speakers like the LS50 deserve the best amp you can reasonably afford. They same with the Sub, you don't want to skimp on a second rate Sub. A Sub is about more than intense bass drone, if a qualitty system, the Sub needs to be clean and tight.

Again, you do seem to be on your way to a very very impressive system. So take what I said with a grain of salt.

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Old 09-01-2014, 09:27 AM
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On the AV Receiver -

The AV Receiver is made up of these components -

- Radio/Tuner - AM/FM radio, that's the Receiver part.

- AV Decoding - also, AV Processor - there are a lot of circuits to convert the digital information to analog and to separate out the Audio from the signal while passing the video aspect on to the TV. Also to determine what part of the audio goes to which amp channel, and what part gets passed to the Subwoofer.

- Pre-Amp - this is the tone controls and all the knobs and buttons you use to control the amp. Pretty much everything on the face plate of the amp represents some aspect of the Pre-Amp.

- Power amps - while most systems are 5.1 channels with 5 amps driving speakers and the 0.1 is a pre-amp signal sent out to the Subwoofer. Most modern amps are at least 7.1, which means 7 internal amps. However, you can find amps that are 9.1 and 11.1 or 5.2, 7.2, 9.2, and 11.2; the 0.2 meaning outputs to drive TWO subwoofers.

Also, you are putting near $4000 into your speaker system by the time you add a Subwoofer, yet you are considering a $500 amp? That's a bit lean on the amp. I mean, we can all understand a limited budget because we have all been in that position ourselves.

But AV Receivers don't start getting really good until you get up near $1000, and they get very good when you push up to $1500. At $2000 or more, AV Receivers are excellent.

You have a most excellent speakers system, if things go as planned, but you are connecting it to a run of the mill amp. Typically with a $500 amp, people will have speaker systems in the $1000 to $2000 range. Though it is your money, with a $4000 speaker system, a $1000 amp is more in order. Though when we get to looking at specific amps, there is a lot of flexibility there. Frequently you will find last year's models on deep discounts, occasionally a good $1000 AV Receiver will be available for $600 (more or less).

Again, this is all my opinion, so make of it what you will.

Steve/bluewizard
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Stereo vs Surround Sound - You will get better for your money if you buy a stereo, but if you buy an AV Receiver, you get Surround Sound ...but... you money is spread much thinner.

If this is a primarily a music system, then get a music system, meaning a stereo. It will still be very good for music.
So by stereo you are referring to a setup with speakers and sub minus an avr?

I will need it to do both. Thank you for your replies you were very helpful in helping to clear things up for me.

So I got the 5 LS50's for 3500. Way over my original budget but whatever, this setup is gonna be badass. Now I am looking into the pb13 ultra, and thanks to you I'm gonna plug in another 2k on the receiver.
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Old 09-01-2014, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post
Can't go wrong with the LS50s, great speaker. For subs, In AUS I would be looking at SVS models, check out the PB12 Plus or PC12 Plus, or better yet, a pair of SVS PB2000s. For a good receiver, you can't really go wrong with the best Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, or Marantz that you can afford.
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+1 for SVS..... No brainer
+2
here's a couple links for Autralia
https://www.finallink.com.au/audiobrands
http://www.deephzaudio.com/

The second link also sell Power Sound Audio
Another nice option since TomV is their designer and was one of the two founder of SVS

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Old 09-01-2014, 08:34 PM
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Thanks. Will i need a amplifier as well as a receiver? Im confused about this.
If you mean an amp for the sub, then the answer is no.
They have their own built in amp.

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Old 09-01-2014, 09:05 PM
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The LS50 is extremely good. You can upgrade the whole signal chain and the LS50 will sound better and better at each upgrade point. If you got the money and the will, Parasound amp + pre-preprocessor such as onkyo 5509 or Marantz 8801. Check stereophile's recommended component lists.

The nice bonus with the pre-preprocessor is the sub will sound significantly better than when paired with AVR's under powered sub-out.

Edit: I just noticed your budget is not enough. So never mind.

Last edited by coli; 09-01-2014 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:36 PM
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Okay, my 2 cents.

I'm really surprised with some of the input here. You're spending a lot of money, and I'm not sure it's the most productive use of your hard-earned dollars.

I'm quite surprised that you can get all that equipment into your space. That is a very, very small room (around 850 cu. ft.). And while I understand you wanting 3 of the LS50s for your front stage, it is probably gross overkill for your rear speakers (and an unwanted load on your AVR's amp -- these aren't the most efficient speakers around). You could have saved quite a bit of money by going small on the rear speakers. But since you have already purchased them, congratulations! They will definitely need a subwoofer, but I bet they will sound fantastic.

The PB13-Ultra is a big, heavy (over 155 pounds or 70 kilograms) monster that may shake your room apart. I'm thinking you could go with something far more reasonable in size, weight, output and price especially for music. A small sealed design would have quite an impact and would be nice for music. Like the two rear speakers, that could save you significant money. That PB13-Ultra will fill a room 3 or 4 times your size. But since money doesn't seem to be a problem, by all means, shake things up .

As far as the AVR is concerned, I'm not a believer in spending a lot of money on modern electronics. Unlike speakers, they come and they go, and things change like the wind. You can get a very good AVR with good power for under a grand. Even cheaper models of around $500 - $700 have most of the bells and whistles of the expensive models. And as bluewizard mentioned, wait for the new models and get the new (year-old models) for a lot less. Again, this is all your choice, but high quality sound does not have to cost 5 or 6 grand.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CeremonialWoman View Post
So by stereo you are referring to a setup with speakers and sub minus an avr?

I will need it to do both....

So I got the 5 LS50's for 3500. ... thanks to you I'm gonna plug in another 2k on the receiver.
At time I posted, it wasn't clear whether you had purchased the speakers, or if you had simply decided to purchase them. So, I commented as if you had nto done anything.

These are the decision everyone has to make when deciding on a system. IF your highest priority is a Music system, then get a Music system, meaning a stereo. However, if your highest priority is Movie, then that pushes the choice toward a Surround Sound system.

The LS50 are stunning speakers, but a bit lean on bass depth, though very high on clarity, which I think you will enjoy in a Surround Sound system.

As I previously said, a $500 amp is just too lean for the speakers you have. Your new budget should do much better.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by CeremonialWoman View Post
Hi Everyone,

I am new to the forum and have not much understanding about sound systems or what to buy, a typical consumer. So im looking for a surround sound system and i have roughly $3000 to spend. Here are my specs:

*The room size this will be placed in is about 2.7m by 3.7m by 2.8m high.
*I am interested in total sound immersion, i wanna feel like the music is cutting through my body. This is key, i wanna feel like i am one with the music, like i am merged with it.
*I am interested in high-end gear and wanna know what i can get for the price above, i can go higher a little or lower if i can find the right gear that will do the job
*I will be mostly listening to music and watching movies, but i need the setup to be good for both.
*Clarity of music and bass is really important, i am interested in crystal clarity and deep but clean bass, if that makes sense.

I am attracted to the KEF brand, dont know why, but i was looking at the T305 HT setup they have, and wondering what people think of the overally quality of that setup? Would i be better off buying speakers and sub serperatley and doing a DIY job? Would i get more bang for my buck that way?

Im also interested in the LS50. Have looked at maybe buying 4-5 of these and getting the Def Tech Supercube sub that they have, and wondering what peoples thoughts are on that combination?

Also, what is the purpose of a receiver in a HT setup?(sorry in advance for the newbie question, i couldnt find another thread for that)

One more thing, with the budget, what is the most effective way to spend my money? How do i decide whether i need to spend 2k on speakers and the rest on the other parts, or vice versa?

Thank you in advance for all the help, very grateful for this community of knowledgable sound folk!

With your budget for about 6K, your borderline hifi. This is a mid-fi forum, a lot of regulars here won't know what to recommend you in general forum section. Maybe asking these questions in Dynaudio or B&W threads will get you better answers.


You do not need 5 speakers to feel envoloped with the music. Getting better 2-Channel speakers which most music are recorded in will get you better results for your money.

Speakers I recommend are the Dynaudio MK2. signatures.. very sweet with good vocals and clarity and nice bass.

Return the kefs, although they are good for the price, Dynaudio are better as far as sound staging depth, tone, timbre and transparency. It's in another class than the kefs.

If you can stretch your budget, you can find a pair use for about 4,500.00


Then you will need to get good amps, dacs, preamps.

Amps I recommend Clones 25pm which are mono 1,200.00 brand new delivered.
Dacs I recommend Chord Hugo which you can find used for about 1,900.00.
Cables and ICs I recommend Audience.
Powercord I recommend Shunyata.. venom 3.

all in all, you will have a very good system for about 7-8k.

Later on, just get a REL.. sub and your all set.

return the kefs. in movies it's mostly the front 2 speakers and the SUB that's bringing you that envoloping big sound (pressuring your room.) 60% might be even the Sub and the 2 front speakers will set the soundstage.

there would be no way I would so spend 1500.00 on stupid sorrounds which mostly are doing little ambient effects. It gets used 10% at most in movies, and mostly not at all in music.

And also, even if you do decide to stick with the kefs, get rid of that reciever and get seperates. There is also no way I am letting a reciever do the decoding downsized to compressed dolby sounds on a KEF ls50s.... always go pcm and in order for you to get good pcm, you need a good decoder, a dac. Chord Hugo is pretty good for the price atm.

Anyway, ultimately, go 2 channel + sub for your needs.

Last edited by NAIM101; 09-02-2014 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:58 PM
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So by stereo you are referring to a setup with speakers and sub minus an avr?

I will need it to do both. Thank you for your replies you were very helpful in helping to clear things up for me.

So I got the 5 LS50's for 3500. Way over my original budget but whatever, this setup is gonna be badass. Now I am looking into the pb13 ultra, and thanks to you I'm gonna plug in another 2k on the receiver.

As the room is small (less than 1,000 cu. ft.) and if you don't plan to be more than 2m away from the speakers the near field listening position for the KEF LS50 are what they have been designed for. So congrats on getting the LS50, these are good for both music (2-channel) and movies (5-channels). If you intend to play muli-channel music from SACD the LS50 will sound good.

Please note that the LS50 -3dB point is 79Hz so it will need help from a sub (or better yet a pair of subs) to take care of the lower two octaves down to 20Hz. For your small room, the pb13 ultra is really an overkill. I would re-consider a pair or 10" or 12" subs. Other AVS members have suggested this and the reason is simple. The smaller subs are more than sufficient to deal with the room modes and even out the bass at the listening position.

For your 5.1/5.2 setup the following speaker layout diagram will be useful - from the Denon owner's manual. Aim for the suggested angles as shown.


Most modern receivers (sometimes called AVR) will be sufficient to drive the LS50 in a small room environment. Look for ones that have the amp rating about 100W with low THD numbers for 2-channel driven between 20Hz to 20kHz at the maximum power into 8 ohms. This is because the LS50 are rated at the nominal impedance of 8 ohms. When I mean low THD, it should be less than 0.1%.

There are lots of choices available and since you're new to this, stick with well known manufacturers who have good warranties and reputations on stability. It'll save you some heart-ache later on when there's issues - as there always will be. So stay away from exotic names until you've gained more experience. Some of the manufacturers that have active threads here in AVS include:
  • Denon/Marantz
  • Yamaha
  • Anthem
  • Onkyo

Generally the entry level units are in the $500 to $600 range. Mid-level is somewhere between $1,000 to $1,500. Top level is +$2,000. Look for a receiver to meet your current needs and has the features you want. So decide on a name and then look at what you want will lead you to the right range.

If you need assistance or have questions, just ask. There are quite a few knowledgeable people here in AVS that are willing to help.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:28 AM
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Those kef are some of the best small 2 channel speakers available, reviewers support it and measurement prove it, while rel sub are the most overprice, under performing sub on the market. Gosh, and power cables? Funny.

Last edited by datranz; 09-05-2014 at 01:31 AM.
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Old 09-05-2014, 01:41 AM
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Those kef are some of the best small 2 channel speakers available, reviewers support it and measurement prove it,
Agree..
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while rel sub are the most overprice, under performing sub on the market. Gosh, and power cables? Funny.


Quite a few AVS members recommend the Internet Direct (ID) sub manufacturers such as:
  • HSU
  • PSA
  • SVS
  • Rythmik

I forgot to mention them to CeremonialWoman in the previous post - sorry about that. ID sub companies have great products and are of value for money for bass output/quality. I can personally vouch for the Rythmik - since I got the F12G. It's a significant step up from the HTiB sub that it replaced.
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Old 09-05-2014, 02:38 AM
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Those kef are some of the best small 2 channel speakers available, reviewers support it and measurement prove it, while rel sub are the most overprice, under performing sub on the market. Gosh, and power cables? Funny.
I only mentioned the REL sub because with the rel sub, she won't need a sub out in her preamp. She will save quite a bit of money, and open doors for a lot of better preamps out there that doesn't have a sub out. (Which is in most cases since most of the better preamps only support 2.0)

try the Shunyata venom 3 Powercord at music direct. 30 day money back guarantee and 150
00 only. You'll change your mind after hearing it.
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Old 09-05-2014, 05:44 AM
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I agree about the sealed subs, a pair of SB-2000 or XS15se would be a better option in that size room. For a receiver, I would look into something like the Denon AVR-X4000, which has the best version of Audyssey and can EQ stereo subs. It has plenty of power and all the bells and whistles you could need.

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Old 09-06-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post
I only mentioned the REL sub because with the rel sub, she won't need a sub out in her preamp. She will save quite a bit of money, and open doors for a lot of better preamps out there that doesn't have a sub out. (Which is in most cases since most of the better preamps only support 2.0)

try the Shunyata venom 3 Powercord at music direct. 30 day money back guarantee and 150
00 only. You'll change your mind after hearing it.
so you buy an overprice, under perform sub to save money and be future proof? uh,,i must be out of my mind...its like buying an expensive 15" wheels now so you don't have to later when you buy a nice ride. $150.00 power cord? i hope its a mile long so i can recycle the copper in it. sshheessh...

Last edited by datranz; 09-06-2014 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 09-06-2014, 04:55 PM
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so you buy an overprice, under perform sub to save money and be future proof? uh,,i must be out of my mind...its like buying an expensive 15" wheels now so you don't have to later when you buy a nice ride. $150.00 power cord? i hope its a mile long so i can recycle the copper it in. sshheessh...
Datranz,

Over at the KEF LS50 thread, I've called out naim101 for being inconsistent and not truthful in his posts. He sings praise for the LS50 over in that thread and bashes it here.

Naim101 MO appears to be pushing for expensive / esoteric DACs, pre/pros and amps whilst making unrealistic / unsubstantiated claims on sound quality. The same make/model being pushed in another thread.

The more bold one makes a claim on equipment, the higher the burden of proof is required.

The simple logic of spending 3x more in exotic upstream gear and not being able to get 3x improvement sound quality seems to have escaped his thinking.

I now take his posts with a large grain of salt as it is illogical and deeply rooted in ignorance. I would advise the OP (CeremonialWoman) to ignore naim101 post in this thread.
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Last edited by steveting99; 09-07-2014 at 07:06 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 09-06-2014, 09:56 PM
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With your budget for about 6K, your borderline hifi. This is a mid-fi forum, a lot of regulars here won't know what to recommend you in general forum section. Maybe asking these questions in Dynaudio or B&W threads will get you better answers.


You do not need 5 speakers to feel envoloped with the music. Getting better 2-Channel speakers which most music are recorded in will get you better results for your money.

Speakers I recommend are the Dynaudio MK2. signatures.. very sweet with good vocals and clarity and nice bass.

Return the kefs, although they are good for the price, Dynaudio are better as far as sound staging depth, tone, timbre and transparency. It's in another class than the kefs.

If you can stretch your budget, you can find a pair use for about 4,500.00


Then you will need to get good amps, dacs, preamps.

Amps I recommend Clones 25pm which are mono 1,200.00 brand new delivered.
Dacs I recommend Chord Hugo which you can find used for about 1,900.00.
Cables and ICs I recommend Audience.
Powercord I recommend Shunyata.. venom 3.

all in all, you will have a very good system for about 7-8k.

Later on, just get a REL.. sub and your all set.

return the kefs. in movies it's mostly the front 2 speakers and the SUB that's bringing you that envoloping big sound (pressuring your room.) 60% might be even the Sub and the 2 front speakers will set the soundstage.

there would be no way I would so spend 1500.00 on stupid sorrounds which mostly are doing little ambient effects. It gets used 10% at most in movies, and mostly not at all in music.

And also, even if you do decide to stick with the kefs, get rid of that reciever and get seperates. There is also no way I am letting a reciever do the decoding downsized to compressed dolby sounds on a KEF ls50s.... always go pcm and in order for you to get good pcm, you need a good decoder, a dac. Chord Hugo is pretty good for the price atm.

Anyway, ultimately, go 2 channel + sub for your needs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post
I only mentioned the REL sub because with the rel sub, she won't need a sub out in her preamp. She will save quite a bit of money, and open doors for a lot of better preamps out there that doesn't have a sub out. (Which is in most cases since most of the better preamps only support 2.0)

try the Shunyata venom 3 Powercord at music direct. 30 day money back guarantee and 150
00 only. You'll change your mind after hearing it.
I know all about Dynadio, wonderfull speakers.
But when you call all other sugestions as mid-fi and say about this cable will make wonder for you.

Sorry I call it snake oil.

I use all balance cable as a preference but a well built cable Is a well built cable, no magics.
Also make my own speakers wires with a profesional look.
For look! Sound wise it will not make a diff!
I use 12 gauge but only 14 or 16 is required, same here

Some of the ID company offer a much better products for the money with better results.
From personal reviews and many Professional ones.

When you spend so much money, it can be counted as high end or mid end.
At what point mid end become High end?

Not on wires or cables, a descent wire or cable but not over price ...

Ray

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Old 09-07-2014, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
Datranz,

Over at the KEF LS50 thread, I've called out naim101 for being inconsistent and not truthful in his posts. He sings praise for the LS50 over in that thread and bashes it here.

Naim101 MO appears to be pushing for expensive / esoteric DACs, pre/pros and amps whilst making unrealistic / unsubstantiated claims on sound quality. The same make/model being pushed in another thread.

The more bold one makes a claim on equipment, the higher the burden of proof is required.

The simple logic of spending 3x more in exotic upstream gear and not being able to get 3x improvement sound quality seems to have escaped his thinking.

I now take his posts with a large grain of salt as it is illogical and deeply rooted within ignorance. I would advise the OP (ceremonialWoman) to ignore naim101 post in this thread.

As I said on the kef thread, kefs are excellent for the price, but the price can get you so far... the Dynaudio audio mk2 signatures are 8,000.00... I don't think no matter how good the designer is at engineering speakers, a 1,500.00 will sound better than 8,000.00 speakers...
The kef ls50 sound better than any 1,500.00 speakers I have heard(ls50) and even some 3-4 grand speakers including b&w etc.. but not better than the Dynaudio MK2 sigs. Or c1 sigs.
Dynaudio mk2/c1 sigs. are special even for its own price range which is 8 grand..

power cables you should experiment... if all cables are snake oil, there would be no companies solely dedicated to cables today, especially that most of them offer 30 day Money back guarantee.

as I have said on another thread, cables do not add to the sound, bad ones block the components of its capabilities. 10 gauge will always result in cleaner signal pass through than 12 gauge, therefore result is better dynamics and less noise, which result in ofcourse bigger soundstage, more details, and tighter bass etc..

High end Cables are usually used in hifi to change PRAT, and alter tone foremost

Last edited by NAIM101; 09-07-2014 at 01:46 AM.
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post
As I said on the kef thread, kefs are excellent for the price, but the price can get you so far... the Dynaudio audio mk2 signatures are 8,000.00... I don't think no matter how good the designer is at engineering speakers, a 1,500.00 will sound better than 8,000.00 speakers...
The kef ls50 sound better than any 1,500.00 speakers I have heard(ls50) and even some 3-4 grand speakers including b&w etc.. but not better than the Dynaudio MK2 sigs. Or c1 sigs.
Dynaudio mk2/c1 sigs. are special even for its own price range which is 8 grand..
Did you read the 1st post of this thread? The OP is specifically looking for a surround sound system - that means more than 2-channels. You do know that a 5.1 system can also do stereo?

After the OP settled for 5xKEF LS50 which was within budget, why did you recommend returning the KEFs and go for something that costs 2.5x more and yet can only do a maximum of 2-channels? How does this meet the OP requirements?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post
...in movies it's mostly the front 2 speakers and the SUB that's bringing you that envoloping big sound (pressuring your room.) 60% might be even the Sub and the 2 front speakers will set the soundstage.
This is incorrect. For a movie, the dialogue found in the center speaker is the most important channel and can be up to 60% of the movie. For movies the front sound stage consists of the at least 4-channels; the front 3 speakers which are the left, center and right channels + LFE channel which most refer to as the sub. Its not just 2-channel stereo which is a compromised front sound stage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post
...get rid of that reciever and get seperates. There is also no way I am letting a reciever do the decoding downsized to compressed dolby sounds on a KEF ls50s.... always go pcm and in order for you to get good pcm, you need a good decoder, a dac. Chord Hugo is pretty good for the price atm.
Does the Chord Hugo decode DTS-HD MA and/or Dolby TrueHD? I ask this question because soundtracks found on blu-ray movies are encoded this way. If the Chord Hugo cannot decode the movie soundtrack why recommend it?

At least a modern receiver can decode the incoming signals from a disc and output to the speakers. Can the Chord Hugo at least match this? I have some doubts a DAC/headphone amp can do this at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NAIM101 View Post
power cables you should experiment... if all cables are snake oil, there would be no companies solely dedicated to cables today, especially that most of them offer 30 day Money back guarantee.

as I have said on another thread, cables do not add to the sound, bad ones block the components of its capabilities. 10 gauge will always result in cleaner signal pass through than 12 gauge, therefore result is better dynamics and less noise, which result in ofcourse bigger soundstage, more details, and tighter bass etc..
High end Cables are usually used in hifi to change PRAT, and alter tone foremost
Do you have proof of these extraordinary claims of superior sound quality obtained in cables? My understanding of cables is not to carry sound but electrical current. Adequately sized cables just do that.
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Last edited by steveting99; 09-07-2014 at 08:03 AM. Reason: Typo and additional text for clarification
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