I want to power amp my CM9s!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 63 Old 09-01-2014, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I want to power amp my CM9s!!!

Hello ,,,
I am a new here so i need your advice ...

I have Denon 4520ci with my CM9, CM5, CM2. Jamo SUB650 ...
But i am not happy...
So i am thinking of Linn power amp (Acurate, Majec)

What do you recommend?


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post #2 of 63 Old 09-01-2014, 11:30 PM
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An amp isn't going to improve much in your case, the avr that you have is very capable, and your speaker are pretty nice, you would benefit most by adding sound treatments and a better subwoofer.
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post #3 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 12:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you.. But i have read that CM9 needs power to listen to the real sound also i have listen to cm8 powered by rotel (hotel California) the sound was very clear and warm but in case of me it is not that much in music .... Please help me


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post #4 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 01:27 AM
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What your budget?
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post #5 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 01:39 AM - Thread Starter
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My budget ... 6500$


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post #6 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 01:44 AM
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Look at Exasound E28 for your dac/preamp. Haven't looked at much for 5 channel amps..
Maybe McIntosh or Bryston.

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post #7 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 02:16 AM
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Well, you have an AVR with preamp outputs so unlike most people you have the right equipment already. I am glad that you aren't asking about passive bi-amping your main speakers because that doesn't have any real benefit.

Your AVR already has 150W per channel so to make any real difference in headroom you should look at doubling that and finding a high quality amp that is stable driving 4 Ohm loads with high current capability. A big stereo amp for your mains will relieve your very capable AVR of its biggest power draw and allow it to supply more power to the rest of your 5 or 7 speakers.

In a review I saw the following measurement for your CM9s - that is a really low frequency for a quite low minimum impedance:
Quote:
Impedance reaches a minimum of 3.41 ohms at 116 Hz
I would suggest:
Parasound 2250 (275W x2 into 8Ω / 400W x2 into 4Ω / 2Ω)
Parasound Halo A21 (250W x2 into 8Ω / 400W x2 into 4Ω)

Really good amps will last a long time and often have many owners - you should consider used. Either of these are commonly sold on eBay or AudioGon.com for a lot less than new. I bought my most of my amps in mint used condition and have been happy with them, just make sure of the reputation of the seller, that original box and packing are included, and that there is a return policy.

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post #8 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 03:14 AM
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Normally I advocate dedicated power amplifers however your Denon is no slouch

http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...ver-test-bench

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post #9 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot ... But what about Linn power amps ... Why no one talk about it


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post #10 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 04:10 AM
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How about this one?

http://www.lsound.eu/home-theater/po...signature.html

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

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post #11 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ice cube View Post
Thank you.. But i have read that CM9 needs power to listen to the real sound also i have listen to cm8 powered by rotel (hotel California) the sound was very clear and warm but in case of me it is not that much in music .... Please help me
There's no doubt that any good speaker needs enough power to listen to the real sound. It is also true that in the cosmic scheme of things two 6.5 inch speakers per tower can only warm a room up so much.

When you say that you heard "CM8 powered by rotel" could you provide more details? There are a lot of things that are unclear about this situation, including the number of different performances of the song "Hotel Californa" that the Eagles recorded. It was an Eagles version that you are mentioning, right?

FWIW I probably have all existing Eagle's versions of Hotel California on my music server. Ripped 'em myself.

The version of Hotel California from Hell Freezes over is a bass addict's dream. It makes the original 1977 version sound pretty thin. It sounds absolutely stunning on my dual subwoofer system because I've tuned my room to have relatively smooth bass response over the parts of it where listening is commonly done. This didn't happen by accident, and it didn't happy by just running out and buying equipment. Magic power amps had nothing to do with it at all. Measurement mics and parametric equalization did have something to do with it.
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post #12 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 05:51 AM
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I would also wager the room he heard them in is treated, which will go a long way to improving sound quality. I think speakers, room treatment, and EQ all have more effect on sound quality than a different brand amp.
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post #13 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 06:10 AM
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I think speakers, room treatment, and EQ all have more effect on sound quality than a different brand amp.
Straight amp swop (integrated) goes against your statement.

You'll probably get more interest from European forums for Linn I'd bet, also "audiophile" forums and of course the Linn forums

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post #14 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Straight amp swop (integrated) goes against your statement.

You'll probably get more interest from European forums for Linn I'd bet, also "audiophile" forums and of course the Linn forums
To each their own, I don't want to start an argument about this.

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post #15 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ice cube View Post

What do you recommend?

Something with a power rating of at least 20 watts per channel. Nothing wrong with Linn amplifiers except that they are unnecessarily expensive. They aren't big sellers in the U.S. but are of fine quality.
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post #16 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all ... I want something gives me detailed, clear,


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post #17 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
Something with a power rating of at least 20 watts per channel. Nothing wrong with Linn amplifiers except that they are unnecessarily expensive. They aren't big sellers in the U.S. but are of fine quality.
Remember when Linn brought out a re-badged Squeezebox. Not the same price though lol

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post #18 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ice cube View Post
Thank you all ... I want something gives me detailed, clear,


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You want us to tell you what to buy. If so, then the answer is nothing. Your receiver will handle things just fine without any help from a Linn or other component amplifier. So buy what you want. Since you don't need anything then what matters is that you are satisfied, not us.
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post #19 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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It is a wise reply ... Denon it doesn't satisfy me ...


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post #20 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 01:09 PM
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As everyone has said, once you have a modern, capable solid state amplifier (which you certainly do with your Denon AVR) the sound you hear is influenced much more by the speakers, subwoofers, and the listening room than by the amplifier or any other electronics.

You would improve your sound a LOT more by buying two really great subs (JL Audio, Rythmik, SVS, etc) and a USB measurement microphone and spending the time to tune your sub placements and room treatments instead of just letting Audyssey struggle with the sub and placement that you have. There is free software called Room EQ Wizard (REW) and a lot of help here on AVSForum on how to use it and how to improve your sub placements and room. But it takes time and you have to learn as you go - your system will be better for it.

UMIK-1 - USB Measurement omnidirectional microphone for a plug&play measurement of your system

http://www.jlaudio.com/home-audio-powered-subwoofers
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box
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post #21 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 01:31 PM
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If you really want to spend money you could just buy a two or three channel for your left, right & center, using the Denon for side & surrounds. With offboard amps for the most imporant channels, your Denon can concentrate on powering the other speakers. Although there isn't much difference between 5 and 7, but there is quite a bit from 2 to 7. So the power supply is somewhat current limited. 70W difference isn't negligable.

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post #22 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtn-tech View Post
There is free software called Room EQ Wizard (REW) and a lot of help here on AVSForum on how to use it and how to improve your sub placements and room. But it takes time and you have to learn as you go - your system will be better for it.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...l#post22823228

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #23 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 01:58 PM
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I would look at a D-Sonic amp or Parasound. Honestly I would even just look at an Emotiva XPA- 2 or XPA-3. However if you are looking for loud and clear, I would sell the CM9's and I would look into a pair of JTR 228's or 212HT's. You will be amazed. I run my 212HT's right off my Denon 4520 with no amps, no problem. I have the juice to give if needed, but I have never really felt the need of external amp. I had Monitor Audio RX8's before I moved up the JTR's, which are simlar to the CM9's and there is no comparison at all. The JTR's are insane.

http://www.d-sonic.net/products/stereo-amplifiers/

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post #24 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 02:21 PM
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That avr puts out more than 200w 4ohms 2 channel, new amps are not the solution, if he was using all his channels in an auditorium then yeah, get a bigger amp. I still say get some sound panels, it is the second biggest improvement in my experience. They add depth, clarity, and create a wide soundstage like the speaker just disappears. If he's looking for chest pound or gut churning experience, then he needs 2 quality sub. For 6g, I would just get new speakers, the cm9 are nice but not excellent enough to spend 6g on amps. He could get a pair of triad gold and 2 sub for that price. I have heard many speakers over the years, ribbons, soft dome, hard domes, horns, you name it, expensive brand, cheap brand, Id, DIY. So far I'm very impress by the triad.

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post #25 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post
Straight amp swap (integrated) goes against your statement.
Two words: sighted evaluations. Why anybody with a brain would risk their reputation on something as flawed as a sighted evaluation escapes me.
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post #26 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 05:33 PM
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That avr puts out more than 200w 4ohms 2 channel, new amps are not the solution, if he was using all his channels in an auditorium then yeah, get a bigger amp. I still say get some sound panels, it is the second biggest improvement in my experience. They add depth, clarity, and create a wide soundstage like the speaker just disappears. If he's looking for chest pound or gut churning experience, then he needs 2 quality sub. For 6g, I would just get new speakers, the cm9 are nice but not excellent enough to spend 6g on amps. He could get a pair of triad gold and 2 sub for that price. I have heard many speakers over the years, ribbons, soft dome, hard domes, horns, you name it, expensive brand, cheap brand, Id, DIY. So far I'm very impress by the triad.
based on what he said I dont think he is looking for a chest pound

Maybe some more detail in the sound

I like the CM9's...but agree that a 6G amp is wasted on them

but then who is going to connect a 6G amp to a Denon 4520?...

for that price I am thinking Anthem..Classe etc SSP's

with one of them and a 6G amp...I bet he can tell a difference..in 2 channel music from the denon 4520...

or...someone needs to have their hearing checked

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post #27 of 63 Old 09-02-2014, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transmaniacon View Post
I would also wager the room he heard them in is treated, which will go a long way to improving sound quality. I think speakers, room treatment, and EQ all have more effect on sound quality than a different brand amp.
you should go to your local high end audio store

listen to some material..perhaps even bring your own

tell them you want to listen to their entry level...relatively speaking...and one of the best( or better) set ups

Both in sound treated rooms
Typically..in my experience...the listening rooms are treated with the same treatments in each listening room

In any case...listen to one system and then to one that that is 4x-6x the price

then see if you still feel the same about what you said

there are far more to it than wattage ratings

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer SC37 Celestion 305 speaker system
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post #28 of 63 Old 09-03-2014, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post
you should go to your local high end audio store

listen to some material..perhaps even bring your own

tell them you want to listen to their entry level...relatively speaking...and one of the best( or better) set ups

Both in sound treated rooms
Typically..in my experience...the listening rooms are treated with the same treatments in each listening room

In any case...listen to one system and then to one that that is 4x-6x the price

then see if you still feel the same about what you said

there are far more to it than wattage ratings

Warren
I have heard plenty of high end systems, and this is how I feel about things. Sure better amps can provide more power with lower distortion, but we are talking about finding that final 3-5% of audio quality. The thousands upon thousands it costs to get there is not worth it in my opinion, when that same money can buy you better speakers, or room treatments, things that have measurable effects on the frequency response. The CM9 are not end game speakers, and there are many better ones out there that would provide a bigger improvement to sound quality, than spending $6000 on an amp. I would be looking in the used market for some diamonds.

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post #29 of 63 Old 09-03-2014, 05:29 AM
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It is a wise reply ... Denon it doesn't satisfy me ...


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You have to analyze why it is unsatisfactory. The sound of an audio system comes from speakers and room acoustics, not amplifiers. If the issue is sound quality what you are saying to me is not that the Denon is unsatisfactory but rather that the speakers and/or room acoustics are unsatisfactory.


Adding an amplifier won't change the audio. If you like the look of one, that's fine. But if the idea is to get better sound, you are spending the money on the wrong thing. Having a shiny new amplifier in the rack may make you feel better and convince you that it sounds better subjectively. That is hearing bias. Worry about speakers and room acoustics.
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post #30 of 63 Old 09-03-2014, 06:18 AM
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A higher quality amplifier will reveal the best of the speakers, so if you pair a 4ohm speaker to really cheap and nasty amp, then you're not getting full advantage. Can it drive seven, 4ohm speakers though? That's the question.

However you do have a good AVR, so I think a amp upgrade will result in neglibable sound quality improvement. Perhaps if you notice distortion or it gets harsh during action scenes. If you had a AVR that starts to sweat when seven 4ohm speakers are connected then I'd look into power amplifiers.

Krell Evolution 900e x 7

Bose Jewel speakers.

 

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