New SVS Prime series speakers - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 1164 Old 10-10-2014, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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New SVS Prime series speakers

Looks great so far.......

Your Thoughts?

http://www.svsound.com/speakers/prime-series
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post #2 of 1164 Old 10-10-2014, 05:19 PM
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I'm really digging these. I've been on the lookout lately for companies that have 3 way center channels to replace my anemic WC-24. Coupled with the 45 day trial, I might have a full SVS system on my hands soon.

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post #3 of 1164 Old 10-10-2014, 06:30 PM
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Those satellite speakers are interesting, I wonder what their recommended receiver crossover setting is. I am looking for a pair of surround speakers that dig a little deeper to be good at an 80hz crossover without having a big footprint.
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post #4 of 1164 Old 10-10-2014, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmanyon View Post
Those satellite speakers are interesting, I wonder what their recommended receiver crossover setting is. I am looking for a pair of surround speakers that dig a little deeper to be good at an 80hz crossover without having a big footprint.
Using the Merlin tool on their website shows a recommended crossover between 80-100 hz.
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post #5 of 1164 Old 10-10-2014, 08:50 PM
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The Prime towers look to have a sensitivity of 87 dB.....could we call these "dynamic" with an Average Joe AVR?

I recommend SVS all the time...but any $500 speaker that takes 500 watts to hit a 105 dB dynamic peak is off my recommendation shortlist....(assuming 13' away, 2 speakers)

Quill

For those interested, using the same math, a speaker with 97 dB sensitivity can hit 105 dB under the same criteria with 50 watts.....one tenth the wattage.
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post #6 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 12:46 AM
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I think they would be fine in a smaller room. The Prime Satellite system at $1000 would be a decent starter system.
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post #7 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post
I think they would be fine in a smaller room. The Prime Satellite system at $1000 would be a decent starter system.
yeah I think it would be better than pioneer and other entry level speakers
im interested on svs prime I wonder how are they compare to emptek e55bi or sierra 1 now we got more choices and I love theyre price range ^^ some audition them please I need feedback on these~
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post #8 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quill View Post
The Prime towers look to have a sensitivity of 87 dB.....could we call these "dynamic" with an Average Joe AVR?

I recommend SVS all the time...but any $500 speaker that takes 500 watts to hit a 105 dB dynamic peak is off my recommendation shortlist....(assuming 13' away, 2 speakers)

Quill

For those interested, using the same math, a speaker with 97 dB sensitivity can hit 105 dB under the same criteria with 50 watts.....one tenth the wattage.
Aren't the Ultra Speakers also 87db? - I took a look at the other very highly respected speakers I've been looking at - the Verus Grands, and they're also 87db. Surely it can't make THAT big of a difference no? - Plus I've a feeling that some speaker companies inflate their sensitivity numbers badly by doing things like only posting the measurements of the tweeters or making the tweeters and the woofers different ohms thus raising sensitivity with adverse effects to the sound. I'd bet those are honest figures from SVS; regardless - it's not enough to keep me from giving them serious consideration In addition - according to PSB it only takes 40 watts of power to hit 103db with 87db speakers, - as a 3db increase in volume takes a doubling of power, wouldn't that mean that it would only take 80 watts to hit 106db?

"if you are listening to a speaker with a Sensitivity Rating of 87 dB, when played with 4 watts of power, it will produce 93 dB. Therefore, to perceive twice the volume, you will require 40 watts (10x) which will equal an SPL of 103 dB"
http://www.psbspeakers.com/articles/...Specifications


And correct me if I'm wrong, but won't 106db be more than enough to play back at reference with 20db of headroom for dynamic peaks?
For reference, listening to anything at 100db for more than 15 minutes straight begins to give you permanent hearing damage.
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post #9 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
Aren't the Ultra Speakers also 87db? - I took a look at the other very highly respected speakers I've been looking at - the Verus Grands, and they're also 87db. Surely it can't make THAT big of a difference no? - Plus I've a feeling that some speaker companies inflate their sensitivity numbers badly by doing things like only posting the measurements of the tweeters or making the tweeters and the woofers different ohms thus raising sensitivity with adverse effects to the sound. I'd bet those are honest figures from SVS; regardless - it's not enough to keep me from giving them serious consideration In addition - according to PSB it only takes 40 watts of power to hit 103db with 87db speakers, - as a 3db increase in volume takes a doubling of power, wouldn't that mean that it would only take 80 watts to hit 106db?

"if you are listening to a speaker with a Sensitivity Rating of 87 dB, when played with 4 watts of power, it will produce 93 dB. Therefore, to perceive twice the volume, you will require 40 watts (10x) which will equal an SPL of 103 dB"
http://www.psbspeakers.com/articles/...Specifications


And correct me if I'm wrong, but won't 106db be more than enough to play back at reference with 20db of headroom for dynamic peaks?
For reference, listening to anything at 100db for more than 15 minutes straight begins to give you permanent hearing damage.
There are plenty of high end speakers with low sensitivity, and that's fine for them because in general, the more someone spends on speakers,the more they spend on amplification.

These are moderately priced speakers, so it is doubtful the user is cross-shopping 120lb Anthem amps.

Here's a calculator to estimate (key word) what you'll get in SPL:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

And all I'm suggesting is that a speaker should be able to hit over 100 dB for content peaks (not sustained listening....I'm talking about explosions and concert DVDs). In this case, that's 200WPC continuous to crest that peak...not amplification the average purchase will have on hand.

To be clear, I'm not saying the speakers are a bad purchase idea (I really do recommend SVS a lot)...but the "S" in AVS stands for science. And the science says you need some pretty skookum amplification for a speaker with 87dB sensitivity.
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post #10 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quill View Post
There are plenty of high end speakers with low sensitivity, and that's fine for them because in general, the more someone spends on speakers,the more they spend on amplification.

These are moderately priced speakers, so it is doubtful the user is cross-shopping 120lb Anthem amps.

Here's a calculator to estimate (key word) what you'll get in SPL:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

And all I'm suggesting is that a speaker should be able to hit over 100 dB for content peaks (not sustained listening....I'm talking about explosions and concert DVDs). In this case, that's 200WPC continuous to crest that peak...not amplification the average purchase will have on hand.

To be clear, I'm not saying the speakers are a bad purchase idea (I really do recommend SVS a lot)...but the "S" in AVS stands for science. And the science says you need some pretty skookum amplification for a speaker with 87dB sensitivity.
Hmm.... Well I used your calculator, and got 105.5db with 80 watts of power - what did I say, 106db? Most modern day AVRs are capable of that.

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post #11 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 09:32 AM
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Wow if those satellite specs are accurate I think there is a great option for those that need WAF as a priority. $1,000 for that 5.1 system is a great deal.
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post #12 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 10:39 AM
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I am interested in these, I've been looking to get a set of GE Triton 7s and Supercenter X how would these rank among them? These are a bit cheaper
(Running everything off a Elite SC-79)
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post #13 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Murderousone View Post
Looks great so far.......

Your Thoughts?

http://www.svsound.com/speakers/prime-series
Thanks for the link!
Very promissing speaker with a nice look to boot.
And the lower price can be very good for option within a certain budget.

I sure we will see some reviews soon, both from pro and customer alike.

Ray
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post #14 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 04:13 PM
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they are very similar to the ultra's....consider them the smaller brother. I have the ultra's and they have been great. running my crown to the l/r will make them wake up big time. if anybody is on the fence to try the little brother's out I wouldn't be. sonic signature wise they'll sound just like the ultra's with a little less punch and top end.

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post #15 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 05:02 PM
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seem interesting for the price but in the 2.5k-4k range for a 5.0 to a 7.0 there a lot of good options.


Edit: oops looking at the wrong prices...

I wonder how these would compare to the EMP Tek speakers.

ShaunH

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post #16 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
Hmm.... Well I used your calculator, and got 105.5db with 80 watts of power - what did I say, 106db? Most modern day AVRs are capable of that.

I noticed you estimate the average user to sit 7' away from the left and right speaker (5' from the screen?)....and full room gain.

Try this one with your dimensions:

http://www.crownaudio.com/elect-pwr-req.htm
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post #17 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quill View Post
I noticed you estimate the average user to sit 7' away from the left and right speaker (5' from the screen?)....and full room gain.

Try this one with your dimensions:

http://www.crownaudio.com/elect-pwr-req.htm
I added in the specifics for my situation, which is 7 feet away from the speakers (the L / R speakers and the LP being in an equilateral triangle of 7 feet with the 60" slightly behind the plane of the front speakers ). The crown algorithm calculates my power needs to be 287 watts to reach 105db from my LP - however it doesn't take into consideration room gain, or that listening to both speakers at once gives a 3db boost at the LP. Those speakers probably measure at 89db in a typical room. That being said I'm willing to concede that to play material that needs 20db of headroom (most are compressed to about 8, with audiophile recordings around 15 [I've been doing some reading obviously]) at reference levels - you would need a more powerful amp than is included with most AVRs / or more efficient speakers. I honestly think that MOST people listen (as in upwards of 95%) at at most 10db below reference, in which case those speakers with an average AVR would be fine. But for the record, you're right - a more powerful amp would be a necessity in the former situation.

"Dynamic(s)" seem to be a word that's used with astonishing frequency when used to describe speakers. Everyone seems to use it very liberally, though perhaps it shouldn't be.
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post #18 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

"Dynamic(s)" seem to be a word that's used with astonishing frequency when used to describe speakers. Everyone seems to use it very liberally, though perhaps it shouldn't be.
Admittedly, when I looked at the link and saw "DYNAMIC" plastered everywhere, I did check the sensitivity, and they are absolutely NOT dynamic unless you have a sizeable amp...hence the mini-rant.

I thought if SVS could marry sensitive 70Hz+ speakers to their awesome subs, they would have a real winner....but alas, no. So when I saw the 87dB (even lower on the center) I did feel the need to make the point.

Very curious as to why a company that is excellent at bass has decided to trade lower extension in their towers for sensitivity.... A 100dB LCR set that crossed over to their subs around 70Hz would have the best of both worlds: awesome bass and effortless dynamics from a modest AVR...
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post #19 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quill View Post
Admittedly, when I looked at the link and saw "DYNAMIC" plastered everywhere, I did check the sensitivity, and they are absolutely NOT dynamic unless you have a sizeable amp...hence the mini-rant.

I thought if SVS could marry sensitive 70Hz+ speakers to their awesome subs, they would have a real winner....but alas, no. So when I saw the 87dB (even lower on the center) I did feel the need to make the point.

Very curious as to why a company that is excellent at bass has decided to trade lower extension in their towers for sensitivity.... A 100dB LCR set that crossed over to their subs around 70Hz would have the best of both worlds: awesome bass and effortless dynamics from a modest AVR...
While I agree that the word "dynamic"
Is over used, I believe you are confusing efficiency with dynamics. I have heard very efficient speakers with a flat sound and less efficient speakers that can floor you. I see where you are going with your argument, that it easier to get loud with less power with greater efficiency but that is not the sole definition of dynamics. Variation in tone, lower noise floors, etc all play into it as well.
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post #20 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post
While I agree that the word "dynamic"
Is over used, I believe you are confusing efficiency with dynamics. I have heard very efficient speakers with a flat sound and less efficient speakers that can floor you. I see where you are going with your argument, that it easier to get loud with less power with greater efficiency but that is not the sole definition of dynamics. Variation in tone, lower noise floors, etc all play into it as well.
Mark Seaton talks about the difficulty in designing speakers whilst taking into consideration the noise floor in this thread:
What is a "Low Noise Floor"
however it would seem to be a non issue for any rooms that weren't specifically designed to have a low noise floor. With all the ambient noise in a typical home theater it sounds like it wouldn't make much of a difference - at least that's what I'm taking from it.
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post #21 of 1164 Old 10-11-2014, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowmanick View Post
While I agree that the word "dynamic"
Is over used, I believe you are confusing efficiency with dynamics. I have heard very efficient speakers with a flat sound and less efficient speakers that can floor you. I see where you are going with your argument, that it easier to get loud with less power with greater efficiency but that is not the sole definition of dynamics. Variation in tone, lower noise floors, etc all play into it as well.
Agreed...though I believe most people reading "CINEMATIC DYNAMICS" in all caps in an ad are going to think that these speakers can take their movie from whispered dialog to a huge series of explosions at reference (with an average ~90 wpc (all channels driven) AVR).

My point is, they cannot.

Sound engineers are mixing (85 dB reference) peaks over 105 dB in movies....and based on their stats, these speakers top out in the mid 90's with an average AVR from 10 feet.

In order for a speaker with 87 dB sensitivity to reproduce a 105 dB explosion from 10 feet away, you need 1033 watts (less with room gain...but still a big number).

Just physics.

Quill
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post #22 of 1164 Old 10-12-2014, 04:26 AM
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My Monitor Audio speakers are 88db and my Anthem MRX gets the system to105db which is very loud at least for me. Crank it and put on the opening scene of Stalingrad (2013) and you definitely hear dynamics.
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post #23 of 1164 Old 10-12-2014, 07:09 AM
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I'm guessing the Primes are not meant for huge home theatres but the modest ones. With a decent AVR these speakers will fill a normal living room With enough sound. I've got a pair of SVS STS-01 as fronts. I have no problems driving them to high enough Levels for my taste With a Yamaha RX-A3040. Granted they are 90dB but they are also 6ohm so they crave some Power. Used a Yamaha RX-V663 prior to the 3040 and even that it was OK. 87dB is no problem unless you are half deaf. Not everybody needs to play at 120dB and peak at 130dB.
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post #24 of 1164 Old 10-12-2014, 08:30 AM
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I'm guessing the Primes are not meant for huge home theatres but the modest ones. With a decent AVR these speakers will fill a normal living room With enough sound. I've got a pair of SVS STS-01 as fronts. I have no problems driving them to high enough Levels for my taste With a Yamaha RX-A3040. Granted they are 90dB but they are also 6ohm so they crave some Power. Used a Yamaha RX-V663 prior to the 3040 and even that it was OK. 87dB is no problem unless you are half deaf. Not everybody needs to play at 120dB and peak at 130dB.
Yes, yours will sound good because at 90dB you need half the power of a speaker with 87dB sensitivity...and you have what I suggest is the best mainstream AVR on the market.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about 120 dB SPL. Simply hitting the 100dB+ peaks that come up while playing at reference.
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post #25 of 1164 Old 10-12-2014, 08:41 AM
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How would these compare to the Def Tech ProMonitor 1000/800 setup? I was seriously considering the Def Techs, but this may be a good alternative.
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post #26 of 1164 Old 10-12-2014, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Quill View Post
Yes, yours will sound good because at 90dB you need half the power of a speaker with 87dB sensitivity...and you have what I suggest is the best mainstream AVR on the market.

And to be clear, I'm not talking about 120 dB SPL. Simply hitting the 100dB+ peaks that come up while playing at reference.
Except that they are 6ohm thus needing 50% more Power than With 8ohm. I also Powered them With a Yamaha RX-V663 and it work just fine for my small livingroom.


My point is a mid-range AVR and these speakers will make a lot of People that aren't interested in playing at Levels so loud their ears start to bleed happy. These speakers aren't made for People who can buy whatever they want. They are made for People With a modest Budget and I'm sure most of those who buy them will be happy.
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post #27 of 1164 Old 10-12-2014, 09:08 AM
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Except that they are 6ohm thus needing 50% more Power than With 8ohm. I also Powered them With a Yamaha RX-V663 and it work just fine for my small livingroom.


My point is a mid-range AVR and these speakers will make a lot of People that aren't interested in playing at Levels so loud their ears start to bleed happy. These speakers aren't made for People who can buy whatever they want. They are made for People With a modest Budget and I'm sure most of those who buy them will be happy.
This was my point exactly - though technically he is right, in a large enough room (or if you're sitting far enough back of the speakers) if you like to play it loud, you'd need more amplification with those speakers. To some extent it's nice to know you've got the power if you need it - kind of like a car that goes 120mph; you'll never drive 120mph but it's nice to know it could. I suppose also, if you're trying to run 5 or 7 channels off your AVR - the power it provides per channel drops dramatically - say from 90wpc down to about 55 or 60 watts per channel, (in reality only 2.33db less I think) in which case you'd be driving your AVR full out at louder levels (taxing on the amps) and you'd have a harder time hitting those dynamic peaks. You could solve that by running a separate amp to your mains, and the surrounds and center off your AVR as they don't demand as much power (not getting as much action). It's cheap enough to do, I picked up my Onkyo 282 for $120.00 used.
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post #28 of 1164 Old 10-12-2014, 09:16 AM
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So, i'm currently running MBS-01's for FR/FL and an SCS-01 as my center. I love the look and sound of the MBS's, but I find the SCS lacking, although it fills the need. Basically, i started with the SCS and SBS combo package way back when, then found a pristine set of MBS's used for about half price, and could never find a MCS to go with it. While the SCS is serviceable, there are times where i find myself struggling to hear dialog...especially when watching regular TV shows...especially on FOX. So, long story longer here, would one of these prime centers fit the bill and match well with my MBS's, or would I need to look at one of the ultra centers?
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post #29 of 1164 Old 10-12-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by digler84 View Post
So, i'm currently running MBS-01's for FR/FL and an SCS-01 as my center. I love the look and sound of the MBS's, but I find the SCS lacking, although it fills the need. Basically, i started with the SCS and SBS combo package way back when, then found a pristine set of MBS's used for about half price, and could never find a MCS to go with it. While the SCS is serviceable, there are times where i find myself struggling to hear dialog...especially when watching regular TV shows...especially on FOX. So, long story longer here, would one of these prime centers fit the bill and match well with my MBS's, or would I need to look at one of the ultra centers?
I've got the SVS STS-01 fronts with the SCS-01 center and I had the same problem when the SCS was on the stand below the TV. Now I've got it on keyholes above the TV and you won't believe the difference. Before I used to raise the center level at least 3dB to get the dialog through. Now I don't need that. The dialog is loud and clear with no issues even at high levels. You should try it before replacing it. :-)
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post #30 of 1164 Old 10-13-2014, 08:54 AM
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really liking the looks of these prime speakers. Question I had tho, was what is with the speaker packaging on the prime sats. they come in 2.1 and 5.1. 5.1 doesnt make sense , since you obviously want the center speaker. Other than that looks like the 3.0 prime and 2.1 prime satellite set for me in the future.
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