I am fairly new to this site, hello to all. I appreciate your advice since I am not by any means an audio expert. I am an engineer (design/develop cables and connectors) I have some technical understanding. I recently decided to upgrade my aging AV system early this year. Basically it is a Mix of pieces spanning the last 20+ years. Here is what I have.
Great Room Layout
10 ft ceilings
25 ft deep (seating area 14 ft out from the TV and front speakers)
20 ft wide (front speakers in the corners)
Open floor plan with the kitchen and breakfast area in the back
AV System
Samsung UN65HU9000
Pioneer SC-71
Two Boston Acoustics 525V centers
AR TSW 410
DT SC 2000 Supercube Sub (purchased because of the small size)
Speakercraft rears in the ceiling
Usage:
90% TV, Streaming Movies, allot of Palladia (concerts, Darrel's house, Later with Jooles Holland)
10% CD's
The AR speakers are ancient, ~ 24 years old. The two Boston centers ~ 20 years old. Looking to replace the AR's. probably the Bostons if they don't match the new fronts.
X Factor
I bought the Samsung with little input from my wife, my mistake if you know what I mean. We have a large built along almost the front wall of the great room that is extensive with wood cabinets etc.. she will only go for smaller front speakers to replace the AR's. They also have to have a cabinet finish she likes (not shiny, not black). I showed he the ascend Acoustics Sierra 2's and she likes the Satin Espresso finish. Theses speakers are in my price range. I have looked at the following speakers but haven't heard any of them.
Sierra 2's (she approved the purchase of these)
Paradigm Studio 10 or 20's
Wharfedale Denton 80th.
Aperion Versus Grand Bookshelf and center. (I live in the Portland OR area so I can go to their showroom)
You have 5,000 cu. ft. and it is open to other rooms? I really feel sorry for your poor little Def Tech sub. That's cruel and unusual punishment! Show it some love and place it in a small den or the bedroom with a couple of small, inexpensive bookshelf speakers, then get a real subwoofer for the great room.
The Sierra-2 Reference with the ribbon tweeter is highly thought of around here. But so is the Philharmonitor (with ribbon tweeter and almost identical specs) @ $850 / pair (free shipping): http://philharmonicaudio.com/philharmonitor.html Check with Dennis Murphy on a center channel.
Use all that money you will save and get a subwoofer that has a chance to fill the great room. Look at Hsu, Outlaw (soon to go on sale), PSA, Reaction Audio, Rythmik and SVS.
And yes, go out and audition as many speakers as practical.
You have 5,000 cu. ft. and it is open to other rooms? I really feel sorry for your poor little Def Tech sub. That's cruel and unusual punishment! Show it some love and place it in a small den or the bedroom with a couple of small, inexpensive bookshelf speakers, then get a real subwoofer for the great room.
The Sierra-2 Reference with the ribbon tweeter is highly thought of around here. But so is the Philharmonitor (with ribbon tweeter and almost identical specs) @ $850 / pair (free shipping): http://philharmonicaudio.com/philharmonitor.html Check with Dennis Murphy on a center channel.
Use all that money you will save and get a subwoofer that has a chance to fill the great room. Look at Hsu, Outlaw (soon to go on sale), PSA, Reaction Audio, Rythmik and SVS.
And yes, go out and audition as many speakers as practicable.
If I turn up the little sub past 1/2 my wife has a conniption! Actually it does alright for its small size, for me. But probably not for you guys. Are the Philarmonitor made in Taiwan or China by Alexis Sound? They look very good but the gold AlexisSound logo on the front is no to my liking. Thanks Alan
There ya go, just let the AR & BA speakers go at it some more. Is there something wrong with the speakers? You don't like how they sound any more? Why two centers?
I think the AR's are some what flat sounding. For a comparison, I have a 2013 Ford Escape with the Sony sound system, the AR's sound like listening to non HD radio as compared to HD. The reason I have two BA centers is my old Denon AVR2000 receiver had two center connections. The AR's are big bookshelf speakers. My wife want smaller speaker cabinets, so this is my opportunity to get a better sounding speaker but it must be small.
I auditioned those philharmonitor for about 14 days ,they sound incredible good for the price but I only recommend the speakers for near field ,small to medium small living rooms.
why they are so cheap compared to ascend and salk sound ? because they are assembled and build in china, but it have quality crossover parts and drivers and almost everyone knows Dennis here ,he is an expert in crossover design and he has worked with salk sound crossovers.
I recommend the ascend because of the raal ,driver ,cabinet ,finish and crossover quality. is very hard to get something similar for the same price.
I selected the Sierras based on the good reviews and many satisfied customers here and elsewhere, their reputation for customer service generally, the bamboo cabinets appealed to me, plus having some experience with trying 200SEs as mains first (got the 170SEs last). David and his crew (Dina particularly) are super nice to deal with, too....plus built/assembled here in the US, which I try and support whenever possible. I bought my Sierra-1s used so actually did get to audition them in the previous owner's home which didn't hurt (and he had a much smaller space and they did sound even better in his room); the warranty was transferable as well and they were super helpful when I upgraded the left/right to the NrT tweeters (the center the previous owner had already done the upgrade on).
My room at the time was like 4500 cuft (mainly due to large vaulted ceiling) plus partially open to the stairwell to the downstairs and big sliding doors to other rooms that were normally left open. My current room is about 32x15x8 plus open to other areas, but completely different in terms of materials used to finish the rooms (rough wood paneling vs textured painted surfaces for example). That's more important to the subs but still has an effect on the speaker set. The speakers I think sound better here.
Thanks for the welcome to Orygun! I had been coming up here mountain biking for years, some of the best available here and in surrounding areas (mountain biking capital of the northwest is a local outfitter's slogan). Not a fisherman but might pick that up one of these days....no shortage of beautiful lakes, streams and rivers! The North Fork being especially nice (just a few miles down the road from me).
Regarding the comb filtering issues. This was news to me. My two BA centers are horizontal below the TV a few feet apart. I just played a U2 Blue Ray, and disconnected one BA center speaker to check. I could not distinguish any sound difference between one or two speakers being connected. The only difference I could detect is double the sound with two. I went to Best Buy today and listened to Martin Logan motion15's. They sounded decent, good highs but seemed to lack something down low. I need to listen to the Logan Martin 35XT's. I also listened to B&W CM5's, I liked them.
Great Room Layout
10 ft ceilings
25 ft deep (seating area 14 ft out from the TV and front speakers) 20 ft wide (front speakers in the corners)
Open floor plan with the kitchen and breakfast area in the back
Try the rule of 5ths. Divide the front wall (20ft) by 5. Place the center of your left speaker 4' from the left wall and the center of your right speaker 4' from the right wall. That'll give you 12' between the two. You'll also have to position them a bit from the front wall. Try 2' and fine tune from there. This will give you an approximate 12/12/12 triangle. Tow in as necessary.
By corner loading your speakers as they are now you're adding about 6 dB in the midbass due to room gain.
The vintage nuts on Audio Karma would love to have those. Charge as much as you can get. I believe they may have been designed by none other than Ken Kantor.
Try the rule of 5ths. Divide the front wall (20ft) by 5. Place the center of your left speaker 4' from the left wall and the center of your right speaker 4' from the right wall. That'll give you 12' between the two. You'll also have to position them a bit from the front wall. Try 2' and fine tune from there. This will give you an approximate 12/12/12 triangle. Tow in as necessary.
By corner loading your speakers as they are now you're adding about 6 dB in the midbass due to room gain.
The vintage nuts on Audio Karma would love to have those. Charge as much as you can get. I believe they may have been designed by none other than Ken Kantor.
Doc; Thanks for the input. Do to the house layout there is only two small well defined areas for the Front L/R. The L/R are fairly centered on the great room. There is no right wall, there are a couple of pillars with a scalloped opening that goes into a dining area. Thanks for the heads up with audio karma, I have a good stack of old stuff. Alan
You're comparing Sierra 2's with RAAL tweeters to the others it's not really a fair comparison. Of course the Sierras are superior. They're on a completely different league than the 170SE which I also have.
I wish I could do a side by side audio comparison between the three speaker setups I listed. Part of the evaluation is how my wife likes the speakers look. Just from the pictures she favors the Paradigm Studio 20 light cherry than the Sierra 2's with Satin Expresso and least is the Motion ff35XT's with dark red cherry.
I am fairly new to this site, hello to all. I appreciate your advice since I am not by any means an audio expert. I am an engineer (design/develop cables and connectors) I have some technical understanding. I recently decided to upgrade my aging AV system early this year. Basically it was a copulation of pieces spanning the last 20+ years. Here is what I have.
Great Room Layout
10 ft ceilings
25 ft deep (seating area 14 ft out from the TV and front speakers)
20 ft wide (front speakers in the corners)
Open floor plan with the kitchen and breakfast area in the back
AV System
Samsung UN65HU9000
Pioneer SC-71
Two Boston Acoustics 525V centers
AR TSW 410
DT SC 2000 Supercube Sub (purchased because of the small size)
Speakercraft rears in the ceiling
Usage:
90% TV, Streaming Movies, allot of Palladia (concerts, Darrel's house, Later with Jooles Holland)
10% CD's
The AR speakers are ancient, ~ 24 years old. The two Boston centers ~ 20 years old. Looking to replace the AR's. probably the Bostons if they don't match the new fronts.
X Factor
I bought the Samsung with little input from my wife, my mistake if you know what I mean. We have a large built along almost the front wall of the great room that is extensive with wood cabinets etc.. she will only go for smaller front speakers to replace the AR's. They also have to have a cabinet finish she likes (not shiny, not black). I showed he the ascend Acoustics Sierra 2's and she likes the Satin Espresso finish. Theses speakers are in my price range. I have looked at the following speakers but haven't heard any of them.
Sierra 2's (she approved the purchase of these)
Paradigm Studio 10 or 20's
Wharfedale Denton 80th.
Aperion Versus Grand Bookshelf and center. (I live in the Portland OR area so I can go to their showroom)
FWIW I recently auditioned Warfedale Diamond 10.2's, Monitor Audio Bronze BX-2's and JBL Studio 530's in my condo side by side for a good 2 to 3 weeks. My layout is a combined kitchen/living room with overall dimensions of about 30' x 18' x 10' high, so roughly similar dimensions. My receiver is a 2012 Pioneer SC-1222.
To make a long story short at the end of the experiment/competition both my girlfriend and I preferred the Studio 530's for all listening demands. Initially she really liked the "warmer" sound of the 10.2's, I had a very positive first impression of the revealing nature of the BX-2's but in the end, after a good 50+ hours of break in to be frank, the Studio 530's proved to be pretty much the equal of the others and w/o any discernible offending characteristics. The compression drivers with the horn loading is the real deal as near I can tell. Also the matching center channel is supposed to be superior for off axis listening as well.
Pretty awesome speaker IMHO that regularly goes on sale for less than $500 per pair.
Just an update. The Paradigm Studio line is end of life this month.. The local dealer also didn't have cherry finish in stock. The dealer said that it is an aging design and it was too expensive for them to make anymore. They are being replaced with the Prestige line. Prestige will be more expensive than the Studio line, and I would guess they will cost less to make. I don't like the look of the Prestige line or the vibe I get from Paradigm. They are no longer an option for me. My wife does not like the look of the Martin Logan Motion 35XT's, so they are out. Basically Sierra 2's are everything we want... The attributes that made up my mind are: Highly rated on AVS, Made in the USA, excellent customer service (Dina) and "The right size, and finish" for my wife. I pulled the trigger and ordered three Sierra 2's L / R / Center in Satin Espresso. If I don't like them I will send them back within 30 days. I cant wait to hear them! WOOHOO! Alan
Paradigm is after a few decades following the other brands and start to move everything to China started with the Classic 7 line. That's fine and all if they didn't also cheapen the parts and cabinet... In any case even if you were to buy their Reference bookshelves they won't be able to compete with the RAAL in the Sierra 2.
Veda, thanks for the insight. From what I heard, Paradigm seems to be driven by increasing their profit margin. Not a good sign. I am excited to have purchased a USA made high quality product! They should arrive on Thursday. Do the Sierra's require break in time for optimum sound? I decided to design and build my own speaker stands. Our built in entertainment feature has Alder wood cabinets and mantle. My brother in law is and expert woodworker with an amazing shop. I'll make them out of Alder.
I received my Sierra 2's L/C/R and have them setup. The cabinets are beautifully finished in satin espresso. The sound is astonishing for these little guy's. They are very clear and precise as many have reported. I hear sounds that I never heard before with my old speakers. I wouldn't hesitate to use a Sierra 2 for a center, plenty of sound with clear voices with my fairly big room. I ran a few Auto MCACC with my Pioneer SC-71 in 5.1. The best sound to my liking was Symmetry and speakers set at Large. With this setting they sound more balanced high frequency to low. I do not have my speaker positions setup optimally, I need higher speaker stands (which I plan to make) and I need to raise my TV ~1.5 inches to fully expose my center. I am pleased, you cant go wrong with these speakers. Alan
Just listened to a couple songs off of Dark Side of the Moon, Wow, these speakers are awesome. Tomorrow I will send some pictures of my setup after I receive the replacement center grill.
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