Atmos setup 7.1.2 or 5.1.4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Which atmos setup
5.1.2 27 18.75%
7.1.2 38 26.39%
7.1.4 79 54.86%
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post #1 of 41 Old 12-31-2014, 01:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Atmos setup 7.1.2 or 5.1.4

Which would be a better setup in your opinion?

7.1.2 or 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 (not sure my AVR could handle it)

I listened to an AVS podcast a while back and the guest said that 7.1.2 would be a better option than 5.1.4

Thanks,
JOe K
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post #2 of 41 Old 01-01-2015, 10:37 AM
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7.1.2 seems to make the most sense, just because it most rooms I think it will be really hard to have surrounds at or slightly above ear level on 4 sides. So most people set up their rooms with the rear surrounds elevated.

Now, if 5.1.4 works with the elevated rears used as height speakers, that may make some sense too.
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post #3 of 41 Old 01-01-2015, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
7.1.2 seems to make the most sense, just because it most rooms I think it will be really hard to have surrounds at or slightly above ear level on 4 sides. So most people set up their rooms with the rear surrounds elevated.

Now, if 5.1.4 works with the elevated rears used as height speakers, that may make some sense too.
So the back two would be hooked into a which port of the AVR? Rear channels or Atmos height channel 2 or both?
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post #4 of 41 Old 01-01-2015, 03:29 PM
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If you use them as surround back (7.1.2), then rear. If you use them as rear height (5.1.4), then Atmos height 2.
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post #5 of 41 Old 01-01-2015, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post
If you use them as surround back (7.1.2), then rear. If you use them as rear height (5.1.4), then Atmos height 2.
That might be a good way to test them out. I could start with 7.1.2 see how it sounds, then raise the heights above me to see how 5.1.4 sounds and then if its worth while go to 7.1.4
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post #6 of 41 Old 01-06-2015, 12:36 PM
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I am having a similar conundrum between 5.1.4 and 7.1.2 with my RX-A2040. That said I look forward to seeing more feedback on your question.

ATMOS Review "Of course the big new feature is Dolby Atmos and it didn't disappoint, delivering the most immersive surround experience we have had at home. We found that we preferred using the 5.1.4 configuration, as opposed to the 7.1.2 because the sense of immersion was greater and we didn't miss the two rear speakers. In fact the precision of the localisation of effects and the panning of sounds was quite remarkable, even with just five speakers. The level of bass was also impressive, although make sure you set your surrounds to small, unless you're using floorstanders, because Atmos will otherwise send an excessive amount of bass to them."

https://www.avforums.com/review/mara...r-review.10854

Different rec. than I have but their logic makes sense...
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post #7 of 41 Old 01-06-2015, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cholmes1 View Post
I am having a similar conundrum between 5.1.4 and 7.1.2 with my RX-A2040. That said I look forward to seeing more feedback on your question.

ATMOS Review "Of course the big new feature is Dolby Atmos and it didn't disappoint, delivering the most immersive surround experience we have had at home. We found that we preferred using the 5.1.4 configuration, as opposed to the 7.1.2 because the sense of immersion was greater and we didn't miss the two rear speakers. In fact the precision of the localisation of effects and the panning of sounds was quite remarkable, even with just five speakers. The level of bass was also impressive, although make sure you set your surrounds to small, unless you're using floorstanders, because Atmos will otherwise send an excessive amount of bass to them."

https://www.avforums.com/review/mara...r-review.10854

Different rec. than I have but their logic makes sense...
Haha, I voted for 7.1.4 because I just couldn't help myself even thought I was recently at a blind GTG that compared different room auto eq's and my favorite was the Atmos and I didn't even realize it was 5.1.2 and the rear surrounds weren't playing.

All the other non Atmos (Audyssey xt32, ARC, YPAO, MCACC, Dirac) AVR's were in 7.1.

Here is the GTG thread:

Archaea's Auto room EQ/AVR comparison G2G - November 8, 2014 - Kansas City
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post #8 of 41 Old 01-06-2015, 03:13 PM
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I should make the obvious point though that I did not hear 5.1.4, 7.1.2, or 7.1.4 so no idea how those compare.
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post #9 of 41 Old 01-06-2015, 03:14 PM
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No 7.2.4?

I think they've been touting dual sub placement, as well. Is that the first "upgrade" coming down the pike?
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post #10 of 41 Old 01-22-2015, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blu-dog-avs View Post
I think they've been touting dual sub placement, as well. Is that the first "upgrade" coming down the pike?
What do you mean by 'upgrade? ' As I understood, you could always add subchannels to any speaker placement. Are we not supposed to be able to use 2+ subs in our ATMOS setups.

Currently I have a 5.2.4 setup in my dedicated HT and it works well. I am using an A2040 if that matters

EDIT: Found this in the ATOMS White Paper "While manufacturers may decide to support more than one subwoofer output, Dolby Atmos technology generates a single low frequency effects (LFE) signal. Figures 5, 6,and 7 show the most common speaker layouts in a Dolby Atmos system for home theater."

Looks like have two LFE signals in my setup...

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post #11 of 41 Old 01-22-2015, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cholmes1 View Post
What do you mean by 'upgrade? ' As I understood, you could always add subchannels to any speaker placement. Are we not supposed to be able to use 2+ subs in our ATMOS setups.

Currently I have a 5.2.4 setup in my dedicated HT and it works well. I am using an A2040 if that matters

EDIT: Found this in the ATOMS White Paper "While manufacturers may decide to support more than one subwoofer output, Dolby Atmos technology generates a single low frequency effects (LFE) signal. Figures 5, 6,and 7 show the most common speaker layouts in a Dolby Atmos system for home theater."

Looks like have two LFE signals in my setup...
You don't. This likely won't change as the LFE signal is only up to 120hz, where directional cues are still virtually nonexistent. Bass is omnidirectional, therefore rendering two different LFE channels pretty much pointless. Now receivers have dual sub outs already, which can be EQ'd and time aligned separately, but both still share the same signal from the mix.
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post #12 of 41 Old 01-22-2015, 01:04 PM
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My original set up was 7.1. When I decided to dip my toe into Atmos (due to those b#$%ds at the KC meet's results), I went the less expensive route of Denon 4100 plus a pair of in ceiling speakers. I love it....but now can really see how having two rear or mid ceiling speakers would really add to the overall experience with both Atmos and Dolby Surround (faux Atmos for non-atmos soundtracks). If I had stepped up to the next Denon, I could have had that option.


Just my two cents
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post #13 of 41 Old 01-22-2015, 01:15 PM
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This is questionable for me, would like 9.1.4, but I guess... Front LCR, wides, surrounds, and our front uppers could be replaced with the X.X.4 scenerio???

Just got a Denon AVR 4520cl on clearence last month, so we can wait a few generations to see what shakes out.

Luckily, I wired the lower and upper position for a 7.1 system during our remodel because I was not sure if we would end up with towers or bipole surrounds. I guess the upper side and rear cables can get harvested for overhead atmos in-ceiling speakers in the future.

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post #14 of 41 Old 01-22-2015, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post
My original set up was 7.1. When I decided to dip my toe into Atmos (due to those b#$%ds at the KC meet's results), I went the less expensive route of Denon 4100 plus a pair of in ceiling speakers. I love it....but now can really see how having two rear or mid ceiling speakers would really add to the overall experience with both Atmos and Dolby Surround (faux Atmos for non-atmos soundtracks). If I had stepped up to the next Denon, I could have had that option.


Just my two cents
Ron
So your Denon allows rear surrounds plus 2 ceiling speakers? It was interesting at Jonathan's, for the Atmos avr the rear surrounds weren't even on (they were on for all other AVR's) and I still preferred the cheap Atmos AVR to everything else.

So, IMO 5.1.2 is better than 7.1 but I'm wondering how 5.1.2 compares to 7.1.2 and if I'd even notice whether or not the rear surrounds are on.
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post #15 of 41 Old 01-22-2015, 05:27 PM
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Anyone done a direct comparison of 5.1.2 vs 5.1.4?
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post #16 of 41 Old 01-23-2015, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justthinking View Post
Anyone done a direct comparison of 5.1.2 vs 5.1.4?
I was able to hear nearly full ATMOS options (5.1.2, 5.1.4, 7.1.2, 7.1.4) at the 14' CEDIA show. The rep was very nice and quite bored as I was the first to arrive at their booth that morning.

Given that the demo was held in what amounted to a small black tent (8x8x8) it was far from ideal, but it was noticeable when the .2 shifted to .4 and vice versa. In terms of the 7 channel, it was nice and I certainly did hear them as they were about 10" from my mid-back, but in terms of sound enhancement, I felt the additional two speakers up high were 'worth more' than the 2 for rear surrounds.

Based on those impressions I bought a RX-A2040 and have it set up for a 5.2.4. The sub issues I will have to resolve somehow as I was informed (see above) that I can still use them I just have to time them and YPAO is not the best with bass. That said, I am very happy with the setup. My room dimensions are 18x14x8.5 with a beam separating the front heights from the rear heights if that matters.

What is really interesting is that in the 'ATMOS Fad or Future' thread (Atmos. Fad or future?) no one has yet to mention that you do not require a movie coded in ATMOS to enjoy the new speaker placement.

Hope this helps.
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post #17 of 41 Old 12-27-2015, 04:57 PM
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OK, I'm about to decide between 7.1.2 vs. 5.1.4 as well!

There doesn't appear to be a clear majority or winner based on the little feedback I've been able to find. I mean, there's got to be more of this question in the upcoming year because it's pretty much limited by the receiver option in the market too. I'm getting the Yamaha A2050.

Here's what I gather and my own interpretation of folks having heard both.

Folks that favour 7.1.2 are basing it off existing/legacy content, and it sounds awesome versus 5.1.4.
Folks that favour 5.1.4 are basing it off specific Atmos content for this setup and it sounds much more immersive than having only 2 ceiling speakers vs. 4.

Seeing that Atmos separate the objects to front ceiling and rear ceiling sound, I'm leaning toward 5.1.4 as I'm speculating the more Atmos soundtracks that come out in the future, it'll continue to sound better. If I've 2 less rears, it's okay, but I've got two more celing to compensate too.

With 7.1.2, it seems like missing out on half the Atmos object sounds (getting only front half and not rear half).

I know 7.1.4 is ideal, but it's a different kind of receiver all together.

I need to decide since I'm contracting folks to build the room and basement and pull wire. Once it's pulled, I don't think I'm going to be moving/adding ceiling speakers... it'll be set for a long while!
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post #18 of 41 Old 12-27-2015, 05:49 PM
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I would recommend pulling wire for 7.1.4 now,maybe even more channels. Wire is cheap and this would be the easiest time to do some future proofing.
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post #19 of 41 Old 12-27-2015, 06:14 PM
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Personally I think it's entirely room dependant, but I'd choose 5.1.4 using heights as one of the .4 over 7.1.2 with elevated rears.
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post #20 of 41 Old 12-27-2015, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy42C430 View Post
With 7.1.2, it seems like missing out on half the Atmos object sounds (getting only front half and not rear half).
By that logic, 5.1.4 will be like missing out on half the surround channels (getting only the side half and not the rear half). Fortunately, it doesn't worth that way. Movie soundtracks can scale to your speaker layout, with no information missing.

Given the choice, I would go with 7.1.2 because it provides more even coverage than 5.1.4. Aside from the L/C/R speakers, you have a pair of speakers anchoring sounds to your sides, a pair of speakers anchoring sounds behind you, and a pair of speakers anchoring sounds above you.

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post #21 of 41 Old 12-28-2015, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenA07 View Post
I would recommend pulling wire for 7.1.4 now,maybe even more channels. Wire is cheap and this would be the easiest time to do some future proofing.
That's true! Silly me for not even having considered this at all yet. Will pull the wire for 7.1.4, regardless if I go 5.1.4 or 7.1.2.


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Personally I think it's entirely room dependant, but I'd choose 5.1.4 using heights as one of the .4 over 7.1.2 with elevated rears.
Ceiling is only 8ft high.
It's open concept, so I've got only two walls in this corner - TV wall in front where the KEF LCR is and a left wall, where the right wall is a bit further away than this "room". This "media room" is planned to be about 12ft x 13ft. The actual back wall is about 40ft away in the back.

It's why I'm doing the Atmos and surround speakers only in-ceiling. From what I've researched, surrounds need to be elevated anyway, so what's another couple of feet
Although I could probably convince the wife to accept a design with speaker stands all around, logistically, I also prefer the wire being run via ceiling than under the wood flooring.


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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
By that logic, 5.1.4 will be like missing out on half the surround channels (getting only the side half and not the rear half). Fortunately, it doesn't worth that way. Movie soundtracks can scale to your speaker layout, with no information missing.

Given the choice, I would go with 7.1.2 because it provides more even coverage than 5.1.4. Aside from the L/C/R speakers, you have a pair of speakers anchoring sounds to your sides, a pair of speakers anchoring sounds behind you, and a pair of speakers anchoring sounds above you.
Ah, okay, perfect. Not losing any sound information is great. With this knowledge, then I'm leaning even more toward 5.1.4 than 7.1.2. My reasoning...

If we don't lose the sound, I am thinking placing the side speakers about 110 to 120 degrees from the TV listening position instead of 90 degrees to the side. Then it's still slightly located in the rear carrying all the sounds, even though not its own discrete channel.

In 7.1.2, having only 2 Atmos speakers and pretty much have to place these two speakers directly above the viewers trying to provide both the front/rear effect vs. having 4 Atmos speakers where I would have the front and rear Atmos discretely separated. The surround speakers carry both side/rear channels, so if it's slightly angled to side and rear, it compromises to be able to provide effective immersion.

Comes down to legacy and existing movie soundtracks are designed for 7.1 vs. what I speculate future soundtracks will have more creative and dedicated Atmos content, so it's why compromising the side/rear surrounds instead of compromising the Atmos.

Actually, as part of this exercise, researching further into Atmos, it's completely different algorithm and design from the legacy discrete channel design. It's object based and truly 3D sound. Actually, I'll stop writing there... as it'll get off topic into how the channels are used now vs. TrueHD, so probably a another thread for that.
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post #22 of 41 Old 12-28-2015, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy42C430 View Post
The surround speakers carry both side/rear channels, so if it's slightly angled to side and rear, it compromises to be able to provide effective immersion.
Even Atmos mixes have most of the sound around you rather than above you. You're going to compromise spatial resolution and coverage for 99% of the sound to improve it for 1% of the sound.

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post #23 of 41 Old 12-28-2015, 09:17 AM
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There should be some additional voting options.

I vote 9.4.4 or 9.4.2. (LCR, WIDES, SURROUNDS, SURROUND BACKS/4 SUBS/2 OR 4 HEIGHTS)
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post #24 of 41 Old 12-28-2015, 10:28 AM
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I am using 4 Klipsch up firing and also additional Polk front/rear height angled down. Whatever one set up lacks the other makes up for it. My system is set up for both Atmos & Auro 3d
A little overkill but I have a 33 speaker set up-- Marantz 8802a w/ 6 amps

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post #25 of 41 Old 03-26-2016, 10:37 AM
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If you're using a 5.1.4 vs a 7.1.2 when you play a 7.1 soundtrack isn't your receiver then dropping you back to a 5.1 track and not using the height speakers?

I have a lot more 7.1 soundtracks than I do Atmos.
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post #26 of 41 Old 03-26-2016, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tulsabrown View Post
If you're using a 5.1.4 vs a 7.1.2 when you play a 7.1 soundtrack isn't your receiver then dropping you back to a 5.1 track and not using the height speakers?

I have a lot more 7.1 soundtracks than I do Atmos.
No, the height information/objects are separate from what's going on in the bed layer of speakers. A 7.1 soundtrack played through a 5 channel bed simply places the sounds that would be going to the Rears into the Surrounds, that all.

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post #27 of 41 Old 03-26-2016, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
No, the height information/objects are separate from what's going on in the bed layer of speakers. A 7.1 soundtrack played through a 5 channel bed simply places the sounds that would be going to the Rears into the Surrounds, that all.
But isn't that still just 5 speakers operating and 4 laying dormant for the vast majority of most users uses?
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post #28 of 41 Old 03-26-2016, 02:28 PM
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But isn't that still just 5 speakers operating and 4 laying dormant for the vast majority of most users uses?
If your using standard processing such as Dolby Digital/ TruHD or DTS Neo/MA then yes, but most immersive audio users will apply their preferred upmixer when playing non native content (DSU or Neural-X) so that the height layer of speakers are still used.
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post #29 of 41 Old 03-27-2016, 01:29 AM
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That makes sense, thank you.
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post #30 of 41 Old 11-05-2016, 08:23 AM
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In my particular circumstance I am unable to place neither the side or rear surround speakers symmetrically. Looking at the rear wall, I have a sliding glass door on the right wall near the back corner and to the left of the rear wall the kitchen opening. I am able to place one side surround speaker on the left wall (looking toward rear of room), but not on the other side where the slider is located. Worse, the space between the sofa arms and the side walls on either side is less than 3 feet so I can't even position them on the floor.

In a 5.1.4 setup, can I place both side surround and the four Atmos speakers on the ceiling? Imagine a circle around the sofa, the middle being the center of seating position, the right/left surround speakers at 90 and 270 degrees, the Atmos at 45, 135, 225 and 315 in plan view; all pointed using directional speakers at about 45 degrees to the sweet spot.

The room is 13'-6" wide x 18'-6" long x 8'-0" high, projection on the narrow side.

Last edited by techjoy; 11-05-2016 at 08:27 AM.
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