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Front Height Speakers

28K views 54 replies 21 participants last post by  BP1Fanatic 
#1 ·
OK trying to plan for the next phase of my system. Still researching wireless rear speaker options so during my research I was introduced to "front height speakers". Wanted to ask for feedback in regards to the features and benefits of adding them to a system. What type of speakers should be utilized (match front stage or small satellites)? Where would be the ideal place/optimal placement of the speakers in relations to the TV and L/R/C and sub? Thanks in advanced!
 
#2 ·
The height speakers want to be directly above the mains or slightly wider. I believe Dolby PLIIz specifies directly above, Audyssey DSX may be a bit wider. I believe DTS NEO:X is directly above as well.

Of course timbre matching to the fronts is ideal, but not necessary, IMO. I have Salk mains but have some NHT Absolute Zeros coming in to do heights. They are only 8 lbs and I didn't want to have to worry about my plaster wall bearing a heavy load.

No, you don't need exact copies of your mains. I don't know that much low content is routed to them. But you should have them XO'd anyway.

I would describe the effect as subtle, and a nice option to have but not necessary. Back when I had them (2 years without, bringing them back now), I noted they added just a little bit of 3 dimensionality to the soundstage, which I enjoyed. Without them, I'm very aware that I'm sitting in a 4' cylinder of sound.

I favored Dolby PLIIz over Audyssey DSX, the latter of which seemed to put too much in the heights. I will be curious to compare these two to DTS NEO:X on the current processor, the AV8801.
 
#3 ·
The height speakers want to be directly above the mains or slightly wider. I believe Dolby PLIIz specifies directly above, Audyssey DSX may be a bit wider. I believe DTS NEO:X is directly above as well.

Of course timbre matching to the fronts is ideal, but not necessary, IMO. I have Salk mains but have some NHT Absolute Zeros coming in to do heights. They are only 8 lbs and I didn't want to have to worry about my plaster wall bearing a heavy load.

No, you don't need exact copies of your mains. I don't know that much low content is routed to them. But you should have them XO'd anyway.

I would describe the effect as subtle, and a nice option to have but not necessary. Back when I had them (2 years without, bringing them back now), I noted they added just a little bit of 3 dimensionality to the soundstage, which I enjoyed. Without them, I'm very aware that I'm sitting in a 4' cylinder of sound.

I favored Dolby PLIIz over Audyssey DSX, the latter of which seemed to put too much in the heights. I will be curious to compare these two to DTS NEO:X on the current processor, the AV8801.

I'm using DTS NEO:X. Sounds very good in my room. I'm using small satellites over my mains. You can see them in the picture below ( barely thanks to the flat black paint ) -


 
#4 ·
In your position, I would consider going the Dolby Atmos route and look into adding "overhead" speakers (along with an Atmos capable receiver, of course). Height effects with PLIIz or Neo:X can be fairly subtle (having said that, I prefer Neo:X). Maximizing separation between the front L/R and the height speakers definitey helps. As for DSX, I find the audio cues it generates in my particular setup a little out of place.
 
#5 ·
I switched back and forth from rear surrounds 7.1 to 5.1plus heights pllz
And found very little difference either way.....a few scenes in a few movies ( very few) made a noticeable change up front with the heights and some Bd concerts seem to have a larger front soundstage and this is very subtle
In my opinion not worth the upgrade for 2 additional speakers at least not in my space with my ears.....I hate to admit it ....as I upgraded my avr to get front heights and DSX ......
 
#7 ·
hi, did you also tried with front wides and if you had experienced any noticeable difference compared to above two ?
 
#6 ·
The size of your room and height of your ceiling will be the biggest factor as far as the benefits of adding height speakers, but if you do decide to go that route you should try and match them to your surrounds best you can to get the most out of them, unless your using bi-polar surrounds, they really should be direct firing. As far as positioning, they should be as close to directly above your Fronts as possible.
 
#10 ·
I have a front height setup using PLIIz and to be honest I have found it to be totally underwhelming. If I were doing my setup again, I would save the money spent on those speakers. It isn't bad in anyway, it just really doesn't add much. The best application I have found for it, is in instances like the sand storm in Ghost Protocol. With just the surrounds on, the sand storm sound very fake imo. With the heights on it is a much more immersive scene, but it rarely adds anything that I would miss.

I am looking forward to adding to atmos speakers down the road instead.

 
#15 ·
suggestion please?

with my new setup, i have two options to move from 5.1 to 7.1 setup . Either the surround back or the front heights. The disadvantage with surround back will be that it would be in almost same line as rears as I don't have much space at the back of the listening position. however i have the option to place it high as much as possible (if required). The other option is the front heights.

Now i am in dilemma if the front height would help or placing these as surround back with the above limitations would be more pleasing while watching bluray's.

i need to decide before drilling :)
 
#16 ·
with my new setup, i have two options to move from 5.1 to 7.1 setup . Either the surround back or the front heights. The disadvantage with surround back will be that it would be in almost same line as rears as I don't have much space at the back of the listening position. however i have the option to place it high as much as possible (if required). The other option is the front heights.

Now i am in dilemma if the front height would help or placing these as surround back with the above limitations would be more pleasing while watching bluray's.

i need to decide before drilling :)
Boxes, boxes, boxes, don't get in a hurry, use boxes to place the speakers where your going to want them, try both positions temporarily just to see what you prefer.
 
#17 ·
Thanks. For front heights I don't have the option of boxes. This is how it looks in front and back

Not a neat setup like others in the forum though .





Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 
#18 ·
I've had my heights disconnected for a couple of months now and am running wire to move the now unused bookshelf speakers to rears instead. In short, I can't hear the heights with movies and with music, matrixed by the AVR to surround, they smear the sound stage. There seems to be a psychoacoustic effect of height to a good movie mix without height speakers so I'm not convinced they ever added anything.

Could just be my setup though. I haven't heard heights anywhere else.
 
#19 ·
OK thanks for your views. My other concern is that I don't have much space behind the listening position as well as you can see in the pic

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 
#22 ·
so you are now planning to move to surround back again inspite of your room limitation?

I also posted this idea in another group, where i was wondering placing the front heights in the position of atmos (not exactly in ceiling but on top of the rack just behind the listening position) and use DPLIIz effect. Not tested so far though ?
 
#21 ·
FWIW, I run 7.1 with the front heights. Almost always with the Dobly PLIIz setting. My living room in the house that we bought had "pre-installed theater speakers" (small, lower end Paradigm speakers with bi-pole surrounds). They stuck the front 2 on the front wall - but at about 12 feet high angled down to MLP. Same for surrounds in back.

I wired those fronts as height with my floorstanders and center channel taking the LCR duties --and I really enjoy the effect. To me (and this may be due to the somewhat extreme height) it does add noticeably to the front soundstage. I can toggle it off and it definately feels like the blu-ray is reduced down to the same plane as me -- with the heights it seems like more of a wall of sound.

I also don't think the timbre matching is that important - at least at the Dobly PLIIz setting I use. I have Aperion LCRs and don't notice any issues with the Paradigms distracting me.

Anyway, its very worth it for me - especially since they were already there:)
 
#23 ·
Testing is the way
attached a kinda dark fronts heights on full motion mounts wert to Dolby Atmos module testing,
they are a pair of DIYSG Volt6's.
some re wiring is required but that should give me 9.2 in non-atmos but I may have to fuss with the configuration wrt DSU and the choices the X5200 lets me have
 

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#25 ·
Yesterday i placed the front height position speakers just behind the listening position on top of the rack behind. It was fun and didn't find any noticeable distractions. I used DSX mode
 
#29 ·
I also liked dsx mode after started using front heights a few days back. It's just that I didn't place them in the traditional position instead placed them just behind the listening position on top of a rack.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 
#32 · (Edited)
My AVR doesn't support wides but it has PLIIz, so the PLIIz heights in the half way point between the L/R and the Side Surrounds is kind of a height-wide compromise.

From the other thread I linked:
Hey Matt -I have been using Height speakers for a long time. If you place them on the front wall, as far apart as possible, they will give a good effect IME, but they will make the front soundstage 'taller' as much as they will give an 'overhead' effect. I will be moving mine in the near future to a position much more like that shown in Sanjay's graphic and I believe that this will place the sounds more 'overhead'.
 
You will also need to give consideration to how you will extract the content for your Height channels. Currently you have three serious options: Audyssey DSX, Dolby PLIIz and DTS Neo:X.  I have extensively tried all three and this is what I personally have discovered:
 
  1. DSX gives a presentation that is way, way too front-centric. It creates a huge 'wall of sound' but it does so at the expense of the surround 'bubble' and envelopment. This is probably because DSX extracts the height information from the front R & L channels, and it also lowers the levels of the R & L channels by 3dB, and lowers the levels of the surrounds by 3dB as well as decorrelating them. To me, this seems like a really bad way to go about it.
  2. PLIIz is my favored method. I find PLIIz to give a good effect without altering the presentation from the other channels too much. The bubble is preserved. PLIIz extracts the Height information from the surround channels, not the R & L like DSX and maybe this is why it gives a better overall result IMO.
  3. Neo:X is also pretty good and I do use this on some movies where it seems to work better than PLIIz. Neo:X extracts the height information (I believe) from the Front L/Surround L and Front R/Surround R 'pairs'.
 
You may also want to consider the future prospect of Dolby Atmos in the home and if so, Sanjay's proposed speaker location would be good, with the addition of a further Height pair towards the rear of the room.
 
#33 ·
OK got it. I too haven't placed them as it should be placed traditionally. I have put them just behind the listening position little higher.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 
#35 ·
I guess there isn't a clear winner out of these three (DSX/PIIz/Neo X) for using height speakers as different users prefer one among these as their favorites. For people wanting to have more action from their heights prefer dsx and people who prefer to kick in only when it has to be go for PIIz and Neo x stand in-between these two..

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 
#36 ·
I'm a little late to the party but I thought I'd weigh in with my experience since there is relatively little on the subject. My want (and current inability to afford) for an Atmos system has led me to exploration into height and wides.
I'm currently tinkering with two different systems so let me start with a brief outline of each of them.

My main living room system (9.2 wide):
A large room with 11' ceiling.
Pioneer VSX-1021
Polk Monitor 70 mains
R50 surrounds
CS10 rears
CS20 center
45B wides
Acoustech PL-200 12" subs (2)


Bedroom (3.1 + height)
The room is 18' wide 15' deep 9'/10' trey ceiling.
Pioneer VSX-821
Polk 45B mains
CS10 center
Psw10 sub
Logitech 2.1 (fed from preamp out) height

Ok, so I've been running the wides on the big system for a few months and really like them. The mains are 8' apart with the wides about 4' outside of them. I'm using the "Wide Movie" setting and I really like it. It's a pure, clean expansion of the front soundstage. The layout of my room won't allow me pull the wides further around toward the surrounds. They are somewhat arced but not quite ideally located. All things considered, the room is about as perfect as I could hope for without having a dedicated theater room. My speakers are all placed perfectly symmetrical with the one exception being the right surround which is two feet farther wide than the right.
My bedroom system tinkering has led me to question the wide setup in my big system. I've been running 3.1 in the bedroom for a long time. Running wires for surround would be a real PITA. I recently realized that my receiver allows for the pre-outs to be used as height or surround rear. I had an old 2.1 setup sitting in the closet so why not?
I placed them all the way up at the ceiling in the corners. Using PLIIz. I like it a lot! It's subtle yet effective. Rain and thunder were the first thing I noticed. Watching The Bastard Executioner, they add a very realistic ambience to dialog in the large stone rooms of the castle. In The Hobbit, the scene where the stone giants fight its raining and thundering with bombastic echos from the large valley. All beautifully enhanced by the height channel.
Sooo... after hearing what the height channel adds, even in an unmatched, cheapy setup like this, I'm most likely going to be converting the wides in my big system to height. I think that most of soundstage effect of the wides can be gotten back by simply spreading the mains a little more. If my receiver would do both then I would but as it is, I think I'll prefer the PL IIz effect. I don't have DTS Neo X on either system so I can't make that comparison. Hope this helps someone else that is trying to decide between heights or wides.
 
#37 ·
... I think I'll prefer the PL IIz effect. I don't have DTS Neo X on either system so I can't make that comparison. Hope this helps someone else that is trying to decide between heights or wides.
If you are using PLIIz just raise your wides to the ceiling and give it a shot. I really like PLIIz better as a wide/height than a height directly over the L&R.
 
#38 ·
I've been running heights + wides since they were available in Denon's receivers. Before that I was a Yamaha guy and used their presence speakers too.

I think it does add a subtle effect, but I will also add that even after running theauto-cal, I find myself decreasing the level of the heights and wides by about 1.5dB. Then the effect does not sound forced.

YMMV....


.
 
#40 ·
good clean set up. I just moved back to heights one more time effective last Sunday and watched Equalizer. It was good movie watching experience overall. ( i could not incline the height speaker towards the listening area and it's currently in straight position)
 
#41 ·
Hi everyone,

I know it's an old topic, but I have a question with my new home theater build!

My goal is to build 11.2 Atmos, i have all the equipments. I need only to buy a pair of hight front speakers. My question is: can I use floor standing speakers as hight?

One of my friends want to give me the speakers as free, so do you think those kind of speakers will work good as hight?

I am still in the process, so any advice will be great.

thanks
 

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#43 ·
So you plan on having how many overhead atmos speakers? I am lost.

I am currently in the process of planning an atmos migration, where I will be 7.2.4 with the atmos being in ceiling speakers. Not speaking from any experience yet, but the wisdom here seems to be you want to have four atmos speakers. When I looked at my existing set up, I did have a couple of height speakers above my mains. So when I combined keeping those along with adding four atmos speakers and doing a 9.2.4 system that meant I would be needing the $4000 Denon receiver...that was a price premium of $2000 over the next model down. I couldn't justify it in my mind considering I don't hear them much anyway. If I change my mind, I still have the shelves above my mains in the screen room. I have an AT screen wrapped with GoM...totally the way to go.
 
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