Onkyo HT-S5600 7.1 vs Pioneer SP-PK52FS vs Energy 5.1 Take Classic - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 40 Old 02-11-2015, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Home theatre on a budget. NEED HELP!

Onkyo HT-S5600 7.1 vs Pioneer SP-PK52FS vs Energy 5.1 Take Classic

Hi, i'm looking at getting a home theatre system and can't decide what I want. I need it to be reasonably priced too.

My room is about 15'x15'

I like the idea of the Onkyo setup, because it is a 7.1 and comes with a receiver for $550.

But I hear great thinks about the Pioneer system too!

And finally the Energy Take Classics, I found them about a year ago, but haven't brought my self to buy them, since they are kinda old now.

Ok, the Pioneer system will be the most expensive one with a receiver and i'm fine with that if it gives me a great sounding system for years to come.

I need opinions and either recommendations on other systems in the same price point. Also recommendations on receivers in the $250 to $300 range.

Thanks, Logan

P.S. I have wood floors.

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post #2 of 40 Old 02-11-2015, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Help would be greatly appreciated!
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post #3 of 40 Old 02-11-2015, 04:10 PM
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Patience: You need to be realistic with your expectations for a 7.1 system, which includes the AVR at that price. That being said, the AVR doesn't seem to be too bad, but only you will know if the speakers are good enough for you. As usual, I suspect the subwoofer would be a weak link. Fortunately, if you buy from Amazon, you have 30 days to test it out.

BTW, "great sounding system for years to come" is also unrealistic. We are talking about budget speakers (both the Pioneer and Energy), although several people here seem to like both for the price, with the Pioneers favored more often. I do suggest that you go out an audition them before buying.

AVRs from Accessories4less can be had at very reasonable prices. These are factory refurbished models: http://www.accessories4less.com/make...ceivers/1.html

If you do decide to go with separate audio equipment and not a "system", take a good look at all the AVRs that are available at the above website. Prices range from around $150 on up.

For your subwoofer, you might want to take a look at the Dayton SUB-1200: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...oofer--300-629 It will be far better than the Onkyo and should perform well in your 1,800 cubic foot room.

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post #4 of 40 Old 02-11-2015, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Patience: You need to be realistic with your expectations for a 7.1 system, which includes the AVR at that price. That being said, the AVR doesn't seem to be too bad, but only you will know if the speakers are good enough for you. As usual, I suspect the subwoofer would be a weak link. Fortunately, if you buy from Amazon, you have 30 days to test it out.

BTW, "great sounding system for years to come" is also unrealistic. We are talking about budget speakers (both the Pioneer and Energy), although several people here seem to like both for the price, with the Pioneers favored more often. I do suggest that you go out an audition them before buying.

AVRs from Accessories4less can be had at very reasonable prices. These are factory refurbished models: http://www.accessories4less.com/make...ceivers/1.html

If you do decide to go with separate audio equipment and not a "system", take a good look at all the AVRs that are available at the above website. Prices range from around $150 on up.

For your subwoofer, you might want to take a look at the Dayton SUB-1200: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...oofer--300-629 It will be far better than the Onkyo and should perform well in your 1,800 cubic foot room.
If i buy the Pioneer system i'll be getting the 2 towers, 2 bookself and the center and I was already planning on the Dayton SUB-1200. I also found this receiver on accessories4less
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...airplay/1.html

Also for years to come is quite some time for me. I've used a 2.1 Harman Kardon desktop computer speaker system for about 5 years and think it's time to upgrade. 5 years is what i'm realistically looking them to last, maybe a tad longer.

EDIT: I don't have anywhere to go to try out these systems.
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post #5 of 40 Old 02-11-2015, 04:25 PM
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I think the AVR you're looking at will be fine. As far as the speakers are concerned, only you will know if they are the speakers for you (I've never auditioned them, so cannot comment on their sound quality). Again, audition them, either at a store or at home (knowing you can ship them back for free or a reasonable cost). There are many high-quality speakers out in the wild, and many that can be had at a similar price point.

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post #6 of 40 Old 02-11-2015, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I think the AVR you're looking at will be fine. As far as the speakers are concerned, only you will know if they are the speakers for you (I've never auditioned them, so cannot comment on their sound quality). Again, audition them, either at a store or at home (knowing you can ship them back for free or a reasonable cost). There are many high-quality speakers out in the wild, and many that can be had at a similar price point.
So, lets say you were in my position and couldn't test any of the systems, which one would you choose?
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post #7 of 40 Old 02-11-2015, 05:17 PM
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You're talking to the wrong person. I have never in my life purchased a speaker without auditioning it first. Nor would I ever. If I go on just what other people have stated here on AVS I would probably lean toward the Pioneer. But I did not even consider the Pioneer when I purchased my bookshelf speakers recently (nor would I ever consider the Energy). BTW, I auditioned 8 different speakers that ranged in priced from around $325 / pair to $1000 / pair and chose a speaker selling for $225 / pair simply because they were superior for MY tastes.

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post #8 of 40 Old 02-11-2015, 08:42 PM
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As Dsrussell says, even if you go to Best Buy and listen in a really crappy environment, you can get some ideas about what you like or don't like. I auditioned Polk Monitors, Pioneer AJ and Infinity Primus speakers, about 4 years ago in my house and I just didn't like the Pioneer speakers compared to the other two. But that is irrelevant, because you might. The point is, I would not have known that if I didn't audition those speakers in my room.
Btw, Onkyo is not known for great speakers and the Energy Take classics are fine for a really small bedroom set up, so if you are set on choosing between those three, I would think the Pioneer would be the best sounding, hands down! Btw, I would strongly recommend going 2.1 or at most 5.1 for now- You biggest improvement will be going from TV speakers to larger speaker and a sub! You can always add speakers later, as budget allows.

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post #9 of 40 Old Yesterday, 07:44 AM
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In a 15x15 room, you should skip the Energy speakers and buy better speakers. In my case, I started with a Yamaha R375 ($219) and the Energy speakers ($299)in my large room. I would have been much better off getting my speakers a few at time. For example, I replaced the center and fronts with Infinity P163s ($100 for 2), PC251 ($110) and the rears with P153s ($90 pair) as the speakers went on sale at Amazon, so for the cost of the Energy speakers I had a much better sound for same price. I threw in two inexpensive subs to improve the bass.

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post #10 of 40 Old Yesterday, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsL0G4N View Post
If i buy the Pioneer system i'll be getting the 2 towers, 2 bookself and the center and I was already planning on the Dayton SUB-1200. I also found this receiver on accessories4less
http://www.accessories4less.com/make...airplay/1.html
The Pioneer speakers with a Dayton SUB-1200 is one system I can recommend unheard. I have rarely ever heard people complaining about them. I have listened to them before and while they don't sound to my liking they are amazing performing speakers and very middle of the road in order to please a bunch of different consumers. Out of your 3 you are looking at the Pioneers are a better buy and something I would think would keep you very happy for a long time.

I bought my Polk RM6750's un demo'ed was very happy with those and when I bought my new Polk RTi4's I hadn't heard them in person and I was very pleased with them. I knew that I liked Polk's sound.
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post #11 of 40 Old Yesterday, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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If I was going to buy speakers for a 2.1 system would these be a good option? http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primu...ct_top?ie=UTF8

Apparently they go on sale for $100 and thats when I'd pick them up.

Also what center channel would go with those?

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post #12 of 40 Old Yesterday, 10:12 AM
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The Infinity primus are a pretty amazing deal when you can get the towers, or the bookshelf (p163) for 99/speaker or about 50/sp, repsecitvely. i think the center for the tower speakers is the pc351 and often people pair the pc251 with the bookshelves.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Uj8aGIQ...mus-PC351.html

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post #13 of 40 Old Yesterday, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Would the Denon AVR-E300 5.1 be able to drive a 5.1 infinity setup?

Also would the Dayton 1200 still be a recommended sub if I went with the Infinities?

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post #14 of 40 Old Yesterday, 12:36 PM
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I strongly recommend the Pioneers... and if you're not in a huge hurry they very often (once every couple months) go on sale for about 25% off... and a couple times a year go on sale at 50% off.


Best Buy sells both them and the Infinity speakers so you can always buy both, try them at your home, then return the ones you like less.... do it on day 1 of a new credit card cycle and you get a free in-home 45 day trial of both setups


On the receiver- it's probably worth the $30 to upgrade to the E400 for more power and input options plus 2 extra channels if you ever want em.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtz9 View Post
I strongly recommend the Pioneers... and if you're not in a huge hurry they very often (once every couple months) go on sale for about 25% off... and a couple times a year go on sale at 50% off.


Best Buy sells both them and the Infinity speakers so you can always buy both, try them at your home, then return the ones you like less.... do it on day 1 of a new credit card cycle and you get a free in-home 45 day trial of both setups


On the receiver- it's probably worth the $30 to upgrade to the E400 for more power and input options plus 2 extra channels if you ever want em.
Didn't notice accessories4less had that. So you recommend the 5.0 pioneer over an eventual 5.1 Infinity setup?
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I cannot speak for anyone other than myself. However, most people who recommend speakers think they are worthy of auditioning, not buying blind and hoping you will like them. No one knows your sound preferences but you. If you buy the Pioneer's or Infinity's, you should be buying in order to try them out in your home. If purchased on Amazon (or Crutchfield), you can ship them back if you are not impressed and aren't out anything but your time.

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Infinity P363's have actually been rated as being 4ohm speaker so I would be careful lower end receivers. You should have enough power but its a risk.

My suggestion is still the Pioneers. Keep in mind if you get the Infinities you will need to get the matching center channel which rarely goes on sale from its $200 price point to complete a proper 5.1 system. That places the infinity speakers out of your budget by a long shot.

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Infinity P363's have actually been rated as being 4ohm speaker so I would be careful lower end receivers. You should have enough power but its a risk.

My suggestion is still the Pioneers. Keep in mind if you get the Infinities you will need to get the matching center channel which rarely goes on sale from its $200 price point to complete a proper 5.1 system. That places the infinity speakers out of your budget by a long shot.
So you think the Denon AVR-E400 would still be close to underpowered?
If i can get the 2 towers for $200, 2 bookselves $100, Dayton 1200 $100, and the center $200 then the E400 at $250 i'm looking at aprox $850 granted I won't be buying all of those at the same time. Probably the 2 towers and the sub and receiver. When they go on sale.
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post #19 of 40 Old Yesterday, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
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So you think the Denon AVR-E400 would still be close to underpowered?
If i can get the 2 towers for $200, 2 bookselves $100, Dayton 1200 $100, and the center $200 then the E400 at $250 i'm looking at aprox $850 granted I won't be buying all of those at the same time. Probably the 2 towers and the sub and receiver. When they go on sale.
Personally I don't feel that the time spent waiting for all those things to come together is worth it. Maybe I am just impatient or mayby I just don't really consider the Infinities that much better than the Pioneers.

I am not a fan of the Pioneers either personally but from what I heard of them they are damn good and I wouldn't wait around for some other speakers.
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Quote:
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So you think the Denon AVR-E400 would still be close to underpowered?
If i can get the 2 towers for $200, 2 bookselves $100, Dayton 1200 $100, and the center $200 then the E400 at $250 i'm looking at aprox $850 granted I won't be buying all of those at the same time. Probably the 2 towers and the sub and receiver. When they go on sale.
Here is a simple fact concerning power. If you buy an AVR that has 80 watts per channel, you would need an AVR with 160 watts per channel just to attain a 3 dB difference in sound level (audible, but not significant). In order to get to double the loudness, you'd need an AVR with 800 watts per channel . The difference between 80 watts and 100 watts wouldn't be noticeable.

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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Here is a simple fact concerning power. If you buy an AVR that has 80 watts per channel, you would need an AVR with 160 watts per channel just to attain a 3 dB difference in sound level (audible, but not significant). In order to get to double the loudness, you'd need an AVR with 800 watts per channel . The difference between 80 watts and 100 watts wouldn't be noticeable.
Its really not that type of power he was refering to or I was refering to.

Infinity P363's are actually 4ohm speakers and with most cheaper receivers only rated to handle 6-8ohm speakers the Infinity's might be an issue.
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Here is a simple fact concerning power. If you buy an AVR that has 80 watts per channel, you would need an AVR with 160 watts per channel just to attain a 3 dB difference in sound level (audible, but not significant). In order to get to double the loudness, you'd need an AVR with 800 watts per channel . The difference between 80 watts and 100 watts wouldn't be noticeable.
My question was, would the Denon AVR-E400 be powerful enough to drive a 5.1 infinity setup? Yes, No?
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Infinity P363's have actually been rated as being 4ohm speaker so I would be careful lower end receivers. You should have enough power but its a risk.

My suggestion is still the Pioneers. Keep in mind if you get the Infinities you will need to get the matching center channel which rarely goes on sale from its $200 price point to complete a proper 5.1 system. That places the infinity speakers out of your budget by a long shot.
I only went by the manufacturer's published specs. As you know, impedance rating is an average over the frequency bandwidth. It will rise and dip on any speaker. If the dip is in the higher frequencies (which is normal), there is no problem. If the dip occurs in the lower frequencies, more current will be required. If it dips well below 4 Ohms, then it could tax an amplifier not rated at 4 Ohms.

I'm not recommending any speaker here. I only recommend that the O.P. audition before buying .
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Quote:
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My question was, would the Denon AVR-E400 be powerful enough to drive a 5.1 infinity setup? Yes, No?
Getting a bit testy, are we? There is no simple yes, no answer, but I'd say you shouldn't have a problem. If crazyrob can post a URL on the impedance testing, I'd know a bit more.

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Getting a bit testy, are we? There is no simple yes, no answer, but I'd say you shouldn't have a problem. If crazyrob can post a URL on the impedance testing, I'd know a bit more.
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across that way. :/
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Sorry, I didn't mean to come across that way. :/
No worries, ItsL0G4N. I just chuckled a bit . Getting the right audio equipment isn't easy, so I know how you're feeling. But we can only guide you and give you some knowledge (hopefully accurate knowledge) that we've attained over the years. I would personally feel bad if I recommended something and found out later that you were disappointed.

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I have three cheap AV-rec (50 watt/ch., Onkoyo, 60 watt/ch, Denon and 75 watt/ch, Yamaha) and three sets of reasonable, but not overly sensitive speakers. Each of my AV-rec /speaker combo can get stupid loud!
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Quote:
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My question was, would the Denon AVR-E400 be powerful enough to drive a 5.1 infinity setup? Yes, No?
If not playing at extreme levels, you should be fine.

You can search the web - however you will not find a dumping station, where people
drop off receivers that were destroyed by Infinity Primus speakers.

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post #29 of 40 Old Yesterday, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsL0G4N View Post
My question was, would the Denon AVR-E400 be powerful enough to drive a 5.1 infinity setup? Yes, No?

Yes. I have used a Yamaha R375 ($200ish AVR) and now a Yamaha R675 ($300ish AVR). They barely get warm powering a 2 P363s, 2 P163s, a PC351. For $99, you get a lot of speaker with the P363s.


And yes, I crank them up for movies and the occasional song. Despite what the wife says I haven't managed to wake the dead .
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post #30 of 40 Old Today, 11:10 AM
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Exclamation Infinity P363's are 4ohm and not recommended for budget A/V Receivers

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Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
I only went by the manufacturer's published specs. As you know, impedance rating is an average over the frequency bandwidth. It will rise and dip on any speaker. If the dip is in the higher frequencies (which is normal), there is no problem. If the dip occurs in the lower frequencies, more current will be required. If it dips well below 4 Ohms, then it could tax an amplifier not rated at 4 Ohms.

I'm not recommending any speaker here. I only recommend that the O.P. audition before buying .
We are NOT talking about power output of a reciever when its rated at 8 ohm. We are talking about the problem which arises from using a budget receiver to power a 4 ohm speaker

http://www.audioholics.com/tower-spe...3-measurements
"Although Harman rates the Infinity Primus P363 as 8-ohm speakers, what I measured tells a much different story. These are clearly 4-ohm speakers. They appear to be tuned just below 50Hz, but the saddle points are quite asymmetric. This indicates a system tuning too low for the available box size needed to produce a more optimal response. The 4 ohm dip between 100Hz to 200Hz is a bit concerning for those wanting to use these speakers with budget A/V receivers. Even if bass managed, these speakers can present a rather strenuous load if the amplifiers in the A/V receiver don’t take kindly to 4-ohm loads. I found that Infinity employed a 4-ohm tweeter as evident by the impedance dip above 10kHz. I believe they did this in attempt to increase speaker sensitivity."

I would STRONGLY suggest against the Infinity's with the receivers you are looking at based on the above scientific review.
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