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Floorstanders vs Bookshelves + Subwoofer

14K views 45 replies 25 participants last post by  Reckless95 
#1 ·
Dear Members,
Who will win the battle between floorstanders and bookshelves with decent subwoofer? Both having same size mid range and high range drivers. Room size is small to medium.

These are the 4 battles that are possible:
1. 3 way floorstanders vs 2 way bookshelves with sub
2. 2 way floorstanders vs 3 way bookshelves
3. 2 way floorstanders vs 2 way bookshelves with sub
4. 3 way floorstanders vs 3 way bookshelves

Who will win these battles?
 
#2 ·
This is an impossible question. There is no right answer, it just comes down to individual preferences.
 
#3 ·
From my experience, you'll always gain from having a subwoofer. However, depends on several things such as, how loud you like it. How much bass you like. Again it's all subjective, I can tell you that when I had my bookshelves first and then got a sub after and found that my midrange sounds much better. Again, I like the tactile feel and knew that I wouldn't get it out of a pair of speakers in the range I wanted to spend. So I spent most of my budget on my subwoofer.
 
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#5 ·
Not entirely sure, but 3-way bookshelf speakers
Are a bit rare. I did a search for them a few years ago
And didn't find very many offerings.

FWIW

I like bookshelf (2way) paired with a sub.
 
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#7 ·
With my Def Tech SM65 bookshelves I don't feel like I'm missing any sound that I would gain with floor standers. The sound is exceptionally clear and the bass is surprisingly powerful. While my HSU obviously has far more power and can shake my couch 16 feet away, the SM65's would be perfectly capable on their own say in an apartment or some place where a floor shaker cannot be used. I know many people with full 5.1 systems and I am the first to use bookshelves for fronts and many have said they are highly impressed with the sound. Comparing my own system to theirs I don't notice any lack of sound from bookshelves. With that said I love having a sub to rock the house as I love vibrating bass but no bookshelf or tower would give me that without a sub. I think a sub really levels the playing field.

Like its been said, there are a million answers to your question with none of them being wrong or right. A cheap set of bookshelves will sound terrible as will a cheap set of towers. Spend some decent money on anything and you'll get good sound.
 
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#10 ·
I'm quite partial to floorstanders, but my opinion is just that...an opinion. That said, I've always enjoyed my towers that can hit deep and hard without the aid of an external sub, which has just been so much fun for my usual 2.0 music listening. Not too many bookshelves with 10-12" bass drivers. :D

Again, I'm partial and I've heard too many bookshelf setups that rocked the house for me to believe my preference is the ultimate answer to your question.
 
#18 ·
Floor standers have exactly one advantage over book shelves, and that's better low frequency response. That advantage disappears if you have subs, because then the floor standers aren't working in the lows anyway.
As to whether floor standers without subs are preferable to bookshelves with subs, the simple answer is no. In terms of low frequency extension and output the average floor stander falls well short of the average sub. So short that for serious HT use most floor stander users have to use subs anyway. More important is the issue of placement. For best results sources that operate above 100Hz and those that operate below 100H, ie., mains versus subs, will almost never work best sharing the same foot print. With floor standers putting the high and low frequency sources each where they work the best isn't an option.
^^These Two^^
Towers + Subs, take advantage of as much frequency range a you can for each individual channel, then place your Sub(s) properly to tune for your room, for the LFE and the Lows your towers won't handle.

***OR***

What ever your significant other will let you get away with! :D
 
#13 ·
Floor standers have exactly one advantage over book shelves, and that's better low frequency response. That advantage disappears if you have subs, because then the floor standers aren't working in the lows anyway.
As to whether floor standers without subs are preferable to bookshelves with subs, the simple answer is no. In terms of low frequency extension and output the average floor stander falls well short of the average sub. So short that for serious HT use most floor stander users have to use subs anyway. More important is the issue of placement. For best results sources that operate above 100Hz and those that operate below 100H, ie., mains versus subs, will almost never work best sharing the same foot print. With floor standers putting the high and low frequency sources each where they work the best isn't an option.
 
#33 ·
More important is the issue of placement. For best results sources that operate above 100Hz and those that operate below 100H, ie., mains versus subs, will almost never work best sharing the same foot print. With floor standers putting the high and low frequency sources each where they work the best isn't an option.

That's a very thought provoking point.
 
#14 ·
I have a pair of bookshelf speakers (Philharmonitors with BMR driver) that can get down to 40hz...my tower speakers (EMP) can only get down to 50hz. Hard to make generalizations without knowing the speaker brand, woofer size, crossover type, etc...
 
#15 ·
Circumstance, Budget, and Preferences determine the answer to the question.

For best results, and assuming a Stereo system, if you don't have Electronic Bass Management for BOTH the Front and the Sub, the usefulness of a Sub is limited.

Further Subs are not cheap, and the need for ultra-deep bass in music, with a few rare exceptions, is not really necessary. If you are down close to 30hz, then you are close enough.

If you are buying all new equipment that is very different than upgrading an existing system. If you have bookshelf, and your priority is to have deeper stronger bass, it make sense to add a Sub. Assuming you have the common sense to set it up properly.

If I were buying a new system, I would rather put the considerable cost of a Subwoofer into better Front speakeers. Beside, I could always add a Sub next year.

Of course the answer depends on whether the amp is a AV Receiver or a Stereo Amp. For Surround Sound, most would say that a Subwoofer is a must, or at least preferred. However, in a pure music Stereo system, most would likely say get good floorstanding speakers.

There are some here who swear by a Subwoofer in a pure Stereo Music system. That aren't wrong, but I think they are wrong in why they think a Sub provides an advantage. They would say the advantage is deeper bass, I would say it is simply more bass but not necessarily deeper bass. With a Sub, you have a huge speaker pushing massive amounts of air and you can control its volume independently. For me, that's a disadvantage, but for those who prefer this method, the Sub has a distinct advantage.

So, you haven't really given us enough context to answer the question. All the other not-listed parameters are what determine the right course of action.

It is not as simply as this speaker combination vs that speaker combination, the determining factors are really in all the other not mentioned parameters. What size is the room? Stereo or AVR? What equipment do you currently have? What is the source of your content? Movies or Music, which is the highest priority? What is it specifically that you want from the system? And so on....?

Steve/bluewizard
 
#17 ·
What size is the room? Stereo or AVR? What equipment do you currently have? What is the source of your content? Movies or Music, which is the highest priority? What is it specifically that you want from the system? And so on....?

Steve/bluewizard
Room size is small. Let's say 12*7 feet.
AVR
Want to purchase a new system, my second one. Budget 1600$.
50% movies, 50% music
I want top quality sound from my system.
 
#22 · (Edited)
What is your tv and does it have 4k upscaling, and is it good? If so, don't worry about it in your avr. Keep in mind the x2100w has more analog inputs if that is significant to you, and it can upscale analog signals to HDMI, while the x1100w can't, which was important when I made my decision between the two. Also look around, there's are many good deals on both the Denon models you mentioned. Towers generally have more sensitivity, but that may or may not matter depending on how loud you listen. PB1000 will have more output, but the ported nature makes it more sensitive to placement. Towers look cooler
 
#27 ·
I understand that most floorstanding speakers aren't going to be full range or anywhere near it. The output down low (can't say exactly where as each speaker/room/etc would be slightly different) is likely going to be much more when a capable sub is used versus a pair of floorstanders.

I've seen it mentioned that floorstanders are basically a bookshelf with more bass. If you have a bookshelf with a single 6.5" and was capable of say 80dB at 60hz and fell like a rock after that, wouldn't you prefer a floorstander that could play a 60hz tone at say 90dB? Sure if you cross the speaker(s) at 80hz or even 60hz then it makes anything lower not being completely used, but you have a lot more headroom at and around the crossover in one speaker versus the other...given all things are equal (THD, etc). I think there are a lot of factors that have to be known to really say which is the better approach. Room size, which speaker(s) being used, etc etc all factor into what should be better.

In my opinion..

If you're watching movies, you'll want a sub. No tower in a sane price range can reproduce LF's like a capable sub. You'll also get to place the sub, etc. Every setup I'd want would still consist of having a sub or two. Most speakers just aren't as capable. Given the approach above though, you can come out with a little more headroom and possible lower distortion at/around the x-over if you had something that produced more bass, even though you weren't using it all.
 
#37 ·
Bookshelves on average will lose to a tower when it comes to mid frequencies, even with a sub, because most people cross them over at 80hz. Anything between 80hz and above, like the higher Mid frequencies will not transfer to the subs. So you will lose output at those frequencies with a bookshelf, compared to a larger tower with more woofers. Mid bass dictates chest slam, you can achieve that with bookshelves, but you would have to use two subs crossed over at a higher frequencies. - 150hz would be acceptable, but you would need to put extra work equalizing them and getting them to integrate. Having a larger bookshelf helps with this problem.
 
#38 ·
Bookshelves on average will lose to a tower when it comes to mid frequencies, even with a sub, because most people cross them over at 80hz..
That argument is raised quite often, but it's got more holes in it than a slice of Swiss cheese. A tower loaded with a pair of tens will have more output capacity than a bookshelf loaded with a single five. But not all bookshelves are loaded with a single five. Technically speaking 'bookshelf' is a speaker than isn't free-standing, but must be placed on a shelf, or stand, or be wall mounted. A five inch loaded speaker would fall under that classification, but so do many far larger speakers, loaded with anything from a pair of sixes to a trio of twelves. Taken to the extreme, this is a bookshelf/sub configuration:

 
#39 ·
OP, you want a subwoofer no matter what. If the speakers you happen to like are "floorstanders" then buy them and add a sub. If they are bookshelf speakers then buy them and add a sub. What matters in speaker selection is what sound you prefer, not who made the speakers and how they were designed.
 
#40 ·
I can say with certainty that my Philharmoic-BMR bookshelfs produce much better 80hz and above than many tower speakers!
 
#42 ·
I use 3-way bookshelves with a sub

I've used them for years, they have 92dB at 1w/1m and run a 8" woofer crossing to dual 4" mids at 300Hz. The woofer is powered so I can adjust the midbass to the sub level and get it smooth. Since they have decent efficiency, I don't need a ton of watts to add distortion or they just won't handle the dynamics so all is well.

Generally speaking, buy the largest "bookshelf" you can stand, if you like two or three that meet the criteria of sound quality, pick the one that is the most efficient. A speaker that is 86dB at 1w/1m requires FOUR times the power to equal one that is 92dB at 1w/1m and with smaller speakers--you need all the help you can get!

Good luck!
 
#43 ·
I think most people would be surprised how much sound will come out of a good pair of bookshelfs ($1000 per pair). The Def Tech sm65s and SVS ultra bookshelfs probably out do a lot of towers. Sure a lot of towers will out do them too but I think budget will effect sound more then if it's a tower or shelf.
 
#46 ·
I somewhat agree. With my Ultra bookshelves in 1350~cubic foot room output was decent. However when I recently got my SB13U, it let them breath some more.
 
#44 ·
I use floorstanders for L/R, but cross them over like everything else. I have two reasons for this...

1) I did not feel they were a lot more than the bookshelf speakers in the same, once you include stands
2) It's nice to not need the stands, they are easier to move
3) I won't ever wonder if they did not go low enough to match with crossover chosen by the receiver
 
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