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post #1 of 30 Old 07-20-2015, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Smile Paradigm Prestige 95F Speakers

Would like to hear from current Paradigm Prestige 95F owners regarding what they like and/or dislike about this speaker. Ready to place order for a pair of Signature S8v3 speakers, but am having second thoughts since Paradigm will be replacing this model at the end of this year or early next year. Thought about just getting the 95F's in the interim. Has anyone compared these new speakers to the current Signature line?
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post #2 of 30 Old 07-21-2015, 06:50 AM
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Opinions on speakers.. Well are just opinions.

I hated the prestige speakers the two times I demod them. Didn't think they were cohesive, and felt they were clinical. Not sure why I disliked them so much as they do a lot of things right, but didn't feel they sounded cohesive.

Just my opinion of course.

I'm very hot and cold on paradigm, I tend to only like the studio series and the signatures. Liked the tributes a lot though.

Don't like their lower end stuff and didn't like the prestige.
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post #3 of 30 Old 07-21-2015, 07:40 AM
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I own the Signature S8v3. For a second system in my house, I just purchased the 85Fs. The 85Fs were added to a 3.1 system made up for a pair of Millenia 200s, Millenia 20, and Seismic 10 sub.

It's hard to compare audio characteristics of the S8 vs the 85F because they are in different locations and are driven by different equipment. One thing that immediately stood out for me though was the 85Fs seemed to be "brighter". Treble seemed to be enhanced, and I understand now the terms I've read about like being tired listening to bright speakers. That was on day one, doing just a straight swap out of the Millenia 200s with the 85Fs. I have since set up my system such that the 85Fs are driven by a used Bryston 3BST (the day before they were hooked up to an Anthem PVA7), calibrated the new 5.1 setup using an SPL meter, and it is much better. Maybe the speakers needed to be driven a bit before settling in. It also highlighted to me the many variables involved in audio. A slight change in any one of the factors can have an influence on the audio, ... in my experience.

The Prestige aren't cheap. My dealer indicated they are apparently slightly higher than the Reference line, but still below the Signatures in terms of audio quality.

My conclusion is the 85Fs are definitely better than the Millenia 200s, but I wouldn't ever give up my Signatures for my main system.

Something to keep in mind is that the Prestige replaced the Reference line. It is priced higher than the Reference. The Signature replacement will be higher in price too. They do have on their website some information on a line higher than the Signature. My understanding is that this will be a new line, but the Signatures will stay. Try calling Paradigm, ... they are quite helpful and I think it is a valid enquiry as far as what the future holds for the Signature line.

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post #4 of 30 Old 07-21-2015, 01:44 PM
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Prestige are more sensitive, so easily construed as brighter

Suffice to say, evaluating speakers is a very subjective experience; it can be hard to account for the differences we hear, or don't.

I have both in my system: A Prestige 55C center speaker, along w/ Signature S8 v2 L/R mains. While shopping for a center speaker I was able to compare the Sig and Prestige series in identical listening settings and am able to do so now (one S8 vs. the one 55c). ..For comparisons to be valid, I strongly believe they need to made in the same listening room and in quick succession AND at carefully matched volume levels. Listening to one in a different setting or at a later time makes comparisons irrelevant.

A few have said the Prestige are dramatically brighter. Carefully comparing the two, I don’t find this to be true at all. However, the Prestige ARE more sensitive (+3db/1m.) which is quite significant. This means the the Prestiges will play noticeably louder at the same volume setting and louder is easily perceived as brighter, particularly with female voices, strings, brass, upper octaves on piano, guitar, etc.

As an aside, why would Paradigm allow this to be the case?? They used the same elaborate blinded testing, the same expensive R&D facility and applied the same set of design objectives - neutrality both on and off axis - when designing the Prestige speakers. So why would they come up with a dramatically brighter speaker than either the Studios or Sigs? The point is, they didn’t… What they managed to do was develop a speaker that requires less wattage while maintaining the same neutrality. And the ability to play LOUDER at a given wattage is a good thing; it means a modest AVR will be able to drive the Prestiges.

When using my AVR and it’s mic to carefully volume match my Prestige Center and one of the S8v2’s, I find female voices, etc.. to sound VERY similar on both speakers, just as I did when I listened to both S8’s and Prestige 95F floor standers.

My advice: listen to both yourself and let your own ears decide.

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post #5 of 30 Old 07-21-2015, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by syd123 View Post
Suffice to say, evaluating speakers is a very subjective experience; it can be hard to account for the differences we hear, or don't.

I have both in my system: A Prestige 55C center speaker, along w/ Signature S8 v2 L/R mains. While shopping for a center speaker I was able to compare the Sig and Prestige series in identical listening settings and am able to do so now (one S8 vs. the one 55c). ..For comparisons to be valid, I strongly believe they need to made in the same listening room and in quick succession AND at carefully matched volume levels. Listening to one in a different setting or at a later time makes comparisons irrelevant.

A few have said the Prestige are dramatically brighter. Carefully comparing the two, I don’t find this to be true at all. However, the Prestige ARE more sensitive (+3db/1m.) which is quite significant. This means the the Prestiges will play noticeably louder at the same volume setting and louder is easily perceived as brighter, particularly with female voices, strings, brass, upper octaves on piano, guitar, etc.

As an aside, why would Paradigm allow this to be the case?? They used the same elaborate blinded testing, the same expensive R&D facility and applied the same set of design objectives - neutrality both on and off axis - when designing the Prestige speakers. So why would they come up with a dramatically brighter speaker than either the Studios or Sigs? The point is, they didn’t… What they managed to do was develop a speaker that requires less wattage while maintaining the same neutrality. And the ability to play LOUDER at a given wattage is a good thing; it means a modest AVR will be able to drive the Prestiges.

When using my AVR and it’s mic to carefully volume match my Prestige Center and one of the S8v2’s, I find female voices, etc.. to sound VERY similar on both speakers, just as I did when I listened to both S8’s and Prestige 95F floor standers.

My advice: listen to both yourself and let your own ears decide.
Sounds quite reasonable. I didn't realize the Prestige were more sensitive. I did pay attention to the sensitivity spec to make sure they would match closely to the Millenia speakers. After completing the setup and calibrating with the SPL meter, it did sound a LOT better. Now I know why.

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post #6 of 30 Old 07-21-2015, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Based on everyone's opinions, I can offer the following response:

  • I have owned the Studio 100s for 3 years now as the main speakers in my surround room. The low frequencies is being supplemented by a REL G1 sub utilizing the high level inputs, so the blend is seamless. I love the sound coming from the Studio 100's and know it could be even better with different electronics.
  • There are no dealers within a 4 hour drive of where I live that have the S8 speakers on their floor, so I would be taking a leap of faith by purchasing the S8v3 speakers. I personally like the Paradigm speakers and have demoed other comparable brands in the $10K-$24K range.
  • The current S8 speaker has been around since ~2003 with 3 revisions. The fact that Paradigm will be coming out with something similar to the Concept 4F later this year or early next year makes me want to not buy the current S8's as this is a 30 year purchase and I would like to purchase the latest technology.
  • I did speak to a Product Manager at Paradigm in early May prior to the Munich High End Show and he was able to directly compare the 95F to the S8 speaker. In his opinion, the high and low frequencies were very close, but the S8 still has a better mid-range. I am sure the beryllium tweeter enables smoother highs as well. But is the improvement in sound worth an extra $4,000 at this time? That is my dilemma.
  • Each brand of electronics has their own sound per say. A brighter speaker can be tamed with electronics that offer a smoother, more laid back sound. I personally like a very detailed, almost clinical sound, without the harsh high frequencies. So I have some work do when it comes to electronics as trying to demo that equipment is becoming a pain as well.
  • Since posting this thread, I have again listened to the 95F speakers and for $5,000/pair, even if I want to upgrade to Paradigm's new flagship speaker next year, it will be easier for me to sell the 95F speakers than the S8's due to their higher cost. My opinion of the sound coming from the 95F speakers was very detailed, but still cohesive. You could say somewhat clinical. But the dealer was running these speakers with lower end Marantz electronics. So I cannot blame the speakers. I will be incorporating much better electronics, and all of the equipment will be demoed in my home. Listening in a store is just not the same. I have decided to purchase the 95F speakers and fill in the low end with a REL G2 speaker. I already own both the G1 and G2 subs and they are wonderful with music and movies. The key is proper room placement and set-up. REL would like me purchase 2 G2 subs for this system, but I think that will be overkill.
  • As far as electronics are concerned, I coming away from a Naim system after 30 years and want to try something different. Plus with the way prices have soared for audiophile equipment, it costs a small fortune to set up a high end system when purchasing new equipment. While I am not to keen on purchasing Chinese made electronics, I have been very impressed by everything I have read about the Cambridge Azur 851 flagship line. The Cambridge rep is shipping my dealer an 851W amp and 851E analog pre-amp to demo. If I like what I hear, then I will be purchasing a complete system utilizing 2 851W amps driving both 95F speakers. If I do not like the Cambridge sound with these speakers, then I will be leaning towards Cary Audio, whose sound I have heard and liked. Cary has gone to a direct marketing model in areas where they have no dealer, so you have 30 days to demo their equipment. The only negative is you are stuck with the high freight charges. I also have the option of driving down to Charlotte, NC and pick the equipment up myself. So at least at this point I have a plan B for both the speakers and electronics.

Thank you for your feedback.
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post #7 of 30 Old 07-22-2015, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mvp47 View Post
  • ...The current S8 speaker has been around since ~2003 with 3 revisions. The fact that Paradigm will be coming out with something similar to the Concept 4F later this year or early next year makes me want to not buy the current S8's as this is a 30 year purchase and I would like to purchase the latest technology.
    .
    .
    .
  • ..Each brand of electronics has their own sound per say. A brighter speaker can be tamed with electronics that offer a smoother, more laid back sound. I personally like a very detailed, almost clinical sound, without the harsh high frequencies. So I have some work do when it comes to electronics as trying to demo that equipment is becoming a pain as well.

I'm surprised by the first point. ..If you think the S8 sounds better than the 95F and the difference is worth the cost, what does it matter whether it's going to be replaced or that it's been revised?

As to the next point, I don't mean to offend but I couldn't disagree more. ..Modern day electronics should not and do not impart any of their own sound unless they do so intentionally with tone controls, room correction, etc. or, frankly, poor engineering. Despite claims of reviewers, bloggers, etc.. there is simply no credible empirical evidence that people are able to distinguish b/w modern day amplifiers, receivers, etc.. when care is taken to control bias (ie., volume matched, blinded, not driven beyond their power limits, etc..). So, if you don't LOVE the sound of the 95F's with the Marantz AVR, don't buy them!! You're not going to like them more by changing the amplifier upstream.
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post #8 of 30 Old 07-22-2015, 05:24 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm surprised by the first point. ..If you think the S8 sounds better than the 95F and the difference is worth the cost, what does it matter whether it's going to be replaced or that it's been revised?

As to the next point, I don't mean to offend but I couldn't disagree more. ..Modern day electronics should not and do not impart any of their own sound unless they do so intentionally with tone controls, room correction, etc. or, frankly, poor engineering. Despite claims of reviewers, bloggers, etc.. there is simply no credible empirical evidence that people are able to distinguish b/w modern day amplifiers, receivers, etc.. when care is taken to control bias (ie., volume matched, blinded, not driven beyond their power limits, etc..). So, if you don't LOVE the sound of the 95F's with the Marantz AVR, don't buy them!! You're not going to like them more by changing the amplifier upstream.
With respect to your opinion regarding the speakers, I originally agreed with your statement and was all ready to place an order for the S8 speakers up until 4 days ago. The price difference did not matter. Then I got to thinking about it again and flip-flopped. In my heart, I really would like to purchase the revised S8 speakers, but do not want to wait another year, so I want to purchase something in the interim. Private selling a pair of speakers is a pain, especially when you factor in the shipping costs and logistics. Fortunately for me, I have a dealer whom I have spent a lot of money with over the years and has helped me facilitate the shipping of speakers in the past. The question is whether I could be happy with the current S8 speakers for many years to come. It is coming down to a monetary decision. I will not lose as much money by selling the 95F speakers as I will by selling the S8 speakers. I think I could be happy for a year with the 95Fs.


As far as the electronics are concerned, I can definitely tell the difference between different brands of audio equipment, as I have demoed a variety of high end brands. I can also say that systems that I have listened to do sound different in my home than in the store. My ears as well as my dealer's ears can tell the difference. There are certain brands of audio equipment that I just do not like.


Fortunately, I have not yet purchased anything. Thank you for your opinion.
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post #9 of 30 Old 07-22-2015, 05:47 AM
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With respect to your opinion regarding the speakers, I originally agreed with your statement and was all ready to place an order for the S8 speakers up until 4 days ago. The price difference did not matter. Then I got to thinking about it again and flip-flopped. In my heart, I really would like to purchase the revised S8 speakers, but do not want to wait another year, so I want to purchase something in the interim. Private selling a pair of speakers is a pain, especially when you factor in the shipping costs and logistics. Fortunately for me, I have a dealer whom I have spent a lot of money with over the years and has helped me facilitate the shipping of speakers in the past. The question is whether I could be happy with the current S8 speakers for many years to come. It is coming down to a monetary decision. I will not lose as much money by selling the 95F speakers as I will by selling the S8 speakers. I think I could be happy for a year with the 95Fs.


As far as the electronics are concerned, I can definitely tell the difference between different brands of audio equipment, as I have demoed a variety of high end brands. I can also say that systems that I have listened to do sound different in my home than in the store. My ears as well as my dealer's ears can tell the difference. There are certain brands of audio equipment that I just do not like.


Fortunately, I have not yet purchased anything. Thank you for your opinion.
I can tell you from experience that if the seed of doubt has been planted, it will bug you forever. You are already thinking ahead to the S8 replacement, you should just wait. Otherwise, you will forever wonder if the newer line is better than the S8v3 you decided to go with. The added benefit is when the new line comes out, you can try them out and if there is no real difference, save a bit on close out S8s. Trust me, just wait. It sounds like pricing is not an issue, so you should either wait altogether until next year, or go with the 95F for now. That's what I would do.

I can also tell you that I have no desire to upgrade my S8s, or to audition anything else. These are my final speakers (unless they just break down). Having said that, the 85Fs are not a noticeable step down. My wife and kids can't tell the difference. I think I can, but you have to play certain music and know what to listen for.

With regards to the sound from different manufacturers, I agree with you. I can tell the difference between a Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha compared to Pioneer Elite, Integra, or Anthem. I prefer the sound of the latter. If there were no difference, ... there wouldn't be so many varieties I would think. I can't speak to the cause of the difference (intentional, cheaper parts, poor engineering), but it is there for me.

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post #10 of 30 Old 07-22-2015, 06:31 AM
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I can tell you from experience that if the seed of doubt has been planted, it will bug you forever. You are already thinking ahead to the S8 replacement, you should just wait. Otherwise, you will forever wonder if the newer line is better than the S8v3 you decided to go with.

With regards to the sound from different manufacturers, I agree with you. I can tell the difference between a Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha compared to Pioneer Elite, Integra, or Anthem. I prefer the sound of the latter. If there were no difference, ... there wouldn't be so many varieties I would think. I can't speak to the cause of the difference (intentional, cheaper parts, poor engineering), but it is there for me.
"wonder if the newer line is better" is an ever present reality. ..Let's say he waits for the S8 replacement, guess what is just around the corner after that!? ..The first revision of the S8 replacement. I would buy the best speakers I can afford today and get on with enjoying them. Differences b/w various versions are usually very small and sometimes inaudible. ..While I was able to hear a diff b/w S8 v1 and v2 (owing no doubt to the beryllium tweeter), I can't hear one iota of differences b/w the v2 and v3's (I think the changes there were mostly cost-cutting evidenced by the much simpler mid-range driver in the v3).

As for differences b/w electronics, everyone is entitled to their opinion, it should be noted that actual science does not support the idea that differences are audible.

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post #11 of 30 Old 07-22-2015, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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I can tell you from experience that if the seed of doubt has been planted, it will bug you forever. You are already thinking ahead to the S8 replacement, you should just wait. Otherwise, you will forever wonder if the newer line is better than the S8v3 you decided to go with. The added benefit is when the new line comes out, you can try them out and if there is no real difference, save a bit on close out S8s. Trust me, just wait. It sounds like pricing is not an issue, so you should either wait altogether until next year, or go with the 95F for now. That's what I would do.

I can also tell you that I have no desire to upgrade my S8s, or to audition anything else. These are my final speakers (unless they just break down). Having said that, the 85Fs are not a noticeable step down. My wife and kids can't tell the difference. I think I can, but you have to play certain music and know what to listen for.

With regards to the sound from different manufacturers, I agree with you. I can tell the difference between a Denon, Marantz, or Yamaha compared to Pioneer Elite, Integra, or Anthem. I prefer the sound of the latter. If there were no difference, ... there wouldn't be so many varieties I would think. I can't speak to the cause of the difference (intentional, cheaper parts, poor engineering), but it is there for me.
You are spot on regarding the seed of doubt. It is bugging me now and will continue to bug me. If I would have purchased the S8v3 speakers prior to having any knowledge of their upcoming replacement I wouldn't have any reason to address this subject in this forum. Once I purchase the right speakers, I will keep them for a very long time. I am not going to wait because I totally remodeled this room and sold all of my existing Linn/Naim equipment except for the Linn LP12 turntable. I need to repopulate the room with audio equipment so I can start enjoying it. I think I can live with the 95Fs for a while. Who knows, with the proper electronics, I might even like them. But at least I will not have a ton of money invested in them in case I decide to sell them. All of my equipment is kept in pristine/like new condition regardless of age, so am confident I will be able to move them when needed. I also plan on storing the original packaging specifically for this future sale.


Right now I play music in my surround room, and while it sounds good, it is nowhere near what a good high-end 2 channel system can deliver. Thank you for your response.
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post #12 of 30 Old 07-22-2015, 12:54 PM
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...

As far as the electronics are concerned, I can definitely tell the difference between different brands of audio equipment, as I have demoed a variety of high end brands. I can also say that systems that I have listened to do sound different in my home than in the store. My ears as well as my dealer's ears can tell the difference. There are certain brands of audio equipment that I just do not like.
...
Of course you can tell the difference. Or you think you can. Most people think they can when they do casual comparisons that are sighted and non-level-matched.

Likely you didn't do the key things syd123 mentioned in his post "(ie., volume matched, blinded, not driven beyond their power limits, etc.)" You might change your tune, so to speak, if you give that a try.

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As mentioned previously, audio is highly subjective with minor differences in environments having potentially large influences on the perceived sound. To each his own. I believe there is a difference in sound between a Yamaha receiver and an Anthem receiver. A graph showing that the sonic frequency of the two are identical won't change my opinion. Otherwise I would have saved a fair bit of money and gone with a Yamaha!

At the end of the day, humans are listening to the sound put out by the receivers/amplifiers/speakers, ... not test equipment. We all hear and see things differently.

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As mentioned previously, audio is highly subjective with minor differences in environments having potentially large influences on the perceived sound. To each his own. I believe there is a difference in sound between a Yamaha receiver and an Anthem receiver. A graph showing that the sonic frequency of the two are identical won't change my opinion. Otherwise I would have saved a fair bit of money and gone with a Yamaha!
So it's like a religion to you. No amount of evidence will change your mind.

Again, if you did some controlled testing (blinded, level-matched), you might start to question those deeply-held beliefs.

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At the end of the day, humans are listening to the sound put out by the receivers/amplifiers/speakers, ... not test equipment. We all hear and see things differently.
Exactly. That's why controlled testing is essential. Otherwise what we see affects what we *think* we hear. When controlled testing is done, those abilities to hear differently suddenly are no longer there. Why is that?

{Apologies for derailing the thread. I will have no more to say on this issue. There are more than enough threads on this forum if you want to learn about psychoacoustics and the need for controlled testing to remove biases.}

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post #15 of 30 Old 07-22-2015, 04:15 PM
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So it's like a religion to you. No amount of evidence will change your mind.

Again, if you did some controlled testing (blinded, level-matched), you might start to question those deeply-held beliefs.


Trust me, I am not a religious person. The only evidence I need is what my ears tell me. You may very well be right. Please don't mistake my opinion for an attack on your opinion (or science).


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{Apologies for derailing the thread. I will have no more to say on this issue. There are more than enough threads on this forum if you want to learn about psychoacoustics and the need for controlled testing to remove biases.}
I'd rather listen to my gear than pour over threads on psychoacoustics. Can't we say the same for just about anything though? Blind testing, controlled environment, all things being equal, ... are all tvs the same? Are all tires the same? Is anything really different, ... all things being equal?

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post #16 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 04:39 AM
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I think I can live with the 95Fs for a while. Who knows, with the proper electronics, I might even like them. But at least I will not have a ton of money invested in them in case I decide to sell them.
It doesn't really sound like you're a Paradigm fan at all. ..Why not just move on to other brands that are more to your liking. .."might even like them"? ..That's a lot of coin to spend on speakers that you "might" like!

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post #17 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 04:48 AM
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So it's like a religion to you. No amount of evidence will change your mind.

Again, if you did some controlled testing (blinded, level-matched), you might start to question those deeply-held beliefs.



Exactly. That's why controlled testing is essential. Otherwise what we see affects what we *think* we hear. When controlled testing is done, those abilities to hear differently suddenly are no longer there. Why is that?

{Apologies for derailing the thread. I will have no more to say on this issue. There are more than enough threads on this forum if you want to learn about psychoacoustics and the need for controlled testing to remove biases.}
It sounds like all you want to do is listen to "stereos" while the rest of us listen to music. There are two high definition microphones I have that are state of the art and every day I do blind listening tests until the clouds open and the sun appears. (The high definition microphones are FREE and come attached to your head. In other words I close my eyes, open my ears and enjoy the music). While the rest of us use our "high definition" microphones feel free to break out your SPL meter, we are too busy enjoying ourselves.
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post #18 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 04:52 AM
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Trust me, I am not a religious person. The only evidence I need is what my ears tell me. You may very well be right. Please don't mistake my opinion for an attack on your opinion (or science).




I'd rather listen to my gear than pour over threads on psychoacoustics. Can't we say the same for just about anything though? Blind testing, controlled environment, all things being equal, ... are all tvs the same? Are all tires the same? Is anything really different, ... all things being equal?

Beaveav is obsessed with this, protecting humanity from listening in "uncontrolled conditions" the horrors. Best to ignore him as he drones on, one day someone will convert their living room to a laboratory and he will find peace.

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post #19 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by beaveav View Post
So it's like a religion to you. No amount of evidence will change your mind.

Again, if you did some controlled testing (blinded, level-matched), you might start to question those deeply-held beliefs.



Exactly. That's why controlled testing is essential. Otherwise what we see affects what we *think* we hear. When controlled testing is done, those abilities to hear differently suddenly are no longer there. Why is that?

{Apologies for derailing the thread. I will have no more to say on this issue. There are more than enough threads on this forum if you want to learn about psychoacoustics and the need for controlled testing to remove biases.}
And if you insist on doing this at least watch this video:
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post #20 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 05:54 AM
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Beaveav is obsessed with this, protecting humanity from listening in "uncontrolled conditions" the horrors. Best to ignore him as he drones on, one day someone will convert their living room to a laboratory and he will find peace.
..This is forum is called, Audio Video SCIENCE is it not? ..There are plenty of other websites one can go to where objectivist-oriented arguments are off-limits, but that should NOT be the case here.

People cite all sorts of specs at AVS - wattage, distortion, slew rate, s/n ratio, freq. response, etc. - so what is wrong with pointing out the similarly relevant spec. that people, when "blinded" from which amp is in use, are unable to reliably distinguish one modern-day amp from another?? To my thinking, it's as relevant (maybe more so) than the other measurements we discuss here.

If someone is visiting this site for the first time, and chooses this particular forum to visit first (maybe b/c they're considering these particular speakers) then Beaveav comments may have a substantive impact on what they buy. ..Isn't that the point?

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post #21 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by syd123 View Post
..This is forum is called, Audio Video SCIENCE is it not? ..There are plenty of other websites one can go to where objectivist-oriented arguments are off-limits, but that should NOT be the case here.

People cite all sorts of specs at AVS - wattage, distortion, slew rate, s/n ratio, freq. response, etc. - so what is wrong with pointing out the similarly relevant spec. that people, when "blinded" from which amp is in use, are unable to reliably distinguish one amp from another?? To my thinking, it's as relevant (maybe more so) than the other measurements we discuss here.

If someone is visiting this site for the first time, and chooses this particular forum to visit first (maybe b/c they're considering these particular speakers) then Beaveav comments may have a substantive impact on what they buy. ..Isn't that the point?
Absolutley, let's just not beat a tired horse When you watch the video I posted to see what it takes to actually implement what Beaveav suggests (if you want to be "scientific" about it) it is nearly impossible without the resources of a large corporation like Harman. Maybe Beaveav can do a "build thread" so we can all make a lab like this one.

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post #22 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 07:01 AM
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Not an owner but have you actually heard the Signature S8? My buddy and I demo'd them at a local shop and we both didn't like their high end tweeter, way too harsh to both our ears. The Studio 60s sounded better in our opinion.


I was able to demo the Prestige 95F in a home directly against the Goldenear Triton Ones. IMO the Presitges blew the goldenears out of the water. Absolutely no contest. I would absolutely love the Prestige 95Fs to be the center of my next build, but when you start piecing together the $800EA surrounds the whole setup goes quiet a bit out of my budget.
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post #23 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syd123 View Post
..This is forum is called, Audio Video SCIENCE is it not? ..There are plenty of other websites one can go to where objectivist-oriented arguments are off-limits, but that should NOT be the case here.

People cite all sorts of specs at AVS - wattage, distortion, slew rate, s/n ratio, freq. response, etc. - so what is wrong with pointing out the similarly relevant spec. that people, when "blinded" from which amp is in use, are unable to reliably distinguish one modern-day amp from another?? To my thinking, it's as relevant (maybe more so) than the other measurements we discuss here.

If someone is visiting this site for the first time, and chooses this particular forum to visit first (maybe b/c they're considering these particular speakers) then Beaveav comments may have a substantive impact on what they buy. ..Isn't that the point?
You make a good point regarding the science part of AVS. The forum is also for people seeking real world experiences and suggestions from everyday people as a pose to professional reviewers. I think we can all make our points, and respectfully disagree where we don't agree.

You mentioned in your post that
Quote:
Originally Posted by syd123 View Post
people, when "blinded" from which amp is in use, are unable to reliably distinguish one modern-day amp from another??
"reliably" is the key word here. Some people might be able to distinguish sometimes. Correct?

I will tell you that I understand Yamaha makes musical instruments. It would then logically make sense to seriously consider a Yamaha receiver, which is what I did many years ago. Who knows music better than the company that makes the instruments? Well, I couldn't stand the sound coming from their receivers. The same audio signal from a Pioneer Elite (same speakers) was more to my liking. I walked out with a Pioneer Elite receiver. No amount of white papers would have made me buy the Yamaha over the Pioneer Elite.
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post #24 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 07:13 AM
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Very Subjective

I like you decided to vastly increase my HT moving from a Paradigm Mini Monitor set up with one sub to a pair of studio mains and much larger center with dual subs. I will say that I expected to get an exponentially great listening experience. While the sound was vastly improved, I was still expecting more. If your primary use of the system is home theater keep in mind that the bulk of all sound is coming from your center only and subs. The mains are just filler and never get used to their full potential unless running music only.
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post #25 of 30 Old 07-23-2015, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Dbruce13 View Post
I like you decided to vastly increase my HT moving from a Paradigm Mini Monitor set up with one sub to a pair of studio mains and much larger center with dual subs. I will say that I expected to get an exponentially great listening experience. While the sound was vastly improved, I was still expecting more. If your primary use of the system is home theater keep in mind that the bulk of all sound is coming from your center only and subs. The mains are just filler and never get used to their full potential unless running music only.
When you turn off your center channel and try to listen to a movie you can fully appreciate your post You can barely hear anything without the center channel.
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post #26 of 30 Old 07-24-2015, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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It doesn't really sound like you're a Paradigm fan at all. ..Why not just move on to other brands that are more to your liking. .."might even like them"? ..That's a lot of coin to spend on speakers that you "might" like!
I am a Paradigm fan. I currently have 3 surround systems in my home all utilizing Paradigm speakers. My outdoor speakers and amplification are Paradigm and Anthem. I have listened to other brands of speakers and prefer the Paradigm for a variety of reasons. I have mentioned multiple times, that while I prefer to purchase Paradigm's upcoming flagship speaker, I do not feel like waiting another year. While I see your point in looking at other brands, I have already done that multiple times, and keep coming back to Paradigm. So I do not feel that $5,000.00 is all that much to spend on decent speakers. I have not heard the 95Fs yet with the proper amplification, similar to what the reviewers have used. But I intend to do so in my home. My point is with the proper amplification, I might enjoy these speakers so much, that I would not be compelled to sell them and spend an additional amount on Paradigm's upcoming flagship model. So in essence, I will be saving money in the long run.
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post #27 of 30 Old 07-25-2015, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mvp47 View Post
I am a Paradigm fan. I currently have 3 surround systems in my home all utilizing Paradigm speakers. My outdoor speakers and amplification are Paradigm and Anthem. I have listened to other brands of speakers and prefer the Paradigm for a variety of reasons. I have mentioned multiple times, that while I prefer to purchase Paradigm's upcoming flagship speaker, I do not feel like waiting another year. While I see your point in looking at other brands, I have already done that multiple times, and keep coming back to Paradigm. So I do not feel that $5,000.00 is all that much to spend on decent speakers. I have not heard the 95Fs yet with the proper amplification, similar to what the reviewers have used. But I intend to do so in my home. My point is with the proper amplification, I might enjoy these speakers so much, that I would not be compelled to sell them and spend an additional amount on Paradigm's upcoming flagship model. So in essence, I will be saving money in the long run.

The additional amount you talk about for the new speaker they were showing is around $40.K per my local dealer (in Canada).


You can definitely get a feel for the quality of the Prestige line by checking out the grill......I wonder what is inside? An example of extreme cost cutting.......in a time of extreme price increases......for a lot less product......

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post #28 of 30 Old 07-25-2015, 08:35 PM
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You can definitely get a feel for the quality of the Prestige line by checking out the grill......I wonder what is inside? An example of extreme cost cutting.......in a time of extreme price increases......for a lot less product......
I have S8's and feel my Prestige 55c is very well made. ..The fit/finish of the cabinet is flawless as are the material choices. Yes, the grill feels flimsy in comparison to the Signature S8's, but the truth is that the grill on the Sig's are over engineered and prone to breaking. The grill on the Prestige 55c is less brittle (in fact, very flexible) and held in place using earth magnets which aren't nearly as prone to breaking as the Pins on the Signature and Studio series.

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post #29 of 30 Old Today, 07:15 AM
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Hope you have your Prestige 95s and are enjoying them.
Likes-
Crisp, detailed high end that is smooth!
Effortless dynamics
Natural, open, and balanced midrange.
They play loud very well- but also play low very well.
Potent bass that is articulate and accurate.

I'm not sure anyone has touched on this, but many of these qualities, such as transient speed, excellent sound at low levels, even their bass performance are at least partially the benefits of their very high efficiency.
This efficiency also significantly widens the field of compatible amps. A 30 watt tube amp and 100 watt SS have both worked well for me.

Dislikes-
I agree that the curved cabinets of the Studio 100s (and other brands) are esthetically pleasing. This look is really the mainstream configuration for floorstanders in this price range, (interestingly -check out the web for recent interviews with designer Andrew Jones on reverting to the square box for his upcoming ELAC Debut line in both functional terms and emerging European audio esthetic trends)
I have grown to like the 95f looks and the wife prefers them without grilles (a first). Cabinet volume can be a factor in speaker efficiency- I wonder how much taller a curved cabinet version would have to be to have an equal internal volume?

I applaud Paradigm for taking the risk and expense of going with a clean sheet of paper design instead of evolutionary, safe steps in technology and cosmetics
It's also cool that they is bringing things back to Canada.

Happy listening
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post #30 of 30 Old Today, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Returntomusic View Post
Hope you have your Prestige 95s and are enjoying them.
Likes-
Crisp, detailed high end that is smooth!
Effortless dynamics
Natural, open, and balanced midrange.
They play loud very well- but also play low very well.
Potent bass that is articulate and accurate.

I'm not sure anyone has touched on this, but many of these qualities, such as transient speed, excellent sound at low levels, even their bass performance are at least partially the benefits of their very high efficiency.
This efficiency also significantly widens the field of compatible amps. A 30 watt tube amp and 100 watt SS have both worked well for me.

Dislikes-
I agree that the curved cabinets of the Studio 100s (and other brands) are esthetically pleasing. This look is really the mainstream configuration for floorstanders in this price range, (interestingly -check out the web for recent interviews with designer Andrew Jones on reverting to the square box for his upcoming ELAC Debut line in both functional terms and emerging European audio esthetic trends)
I have grown to like the 95f looks and the wife prefers them without grilles (a first). Cabinet volume can be a factor in speaker efficiency- I wonder how much taller a curved cabinet version would have to be to have an equal internal volume?

I applaud Paradigm for taking the risk and expense of going with a clean sheet of paper design instead of evolutionary, safe steps in technology and cosmetics
It's also cool that they is bringing things back to Canada.

Happy listening
I have the 85F and I think they sound great with plenty of bass. In fact, when my speakers were first installed they did not at first realize my subwoofer was not working. They do play quite loud with no distortion, although I do have an Anthem MCA30 amp. At first I was disappointed with the boxy cabinets but I have forgotten about that and have grown to really like the silver drivers and leave the grills off. I am really glad I also got the 55C center. I guess I am just not a purist because I keep going back to 5.1 music on 'Veevo' and prefer that over 2 channel music.
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