6ohm center 4 8ohm surrounds on a 6ohm reciever? burned out? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 54 Old 07-27-2015, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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6ohm center 4 8ohm surrounds on a 6ohm reciever? burned out?

i have 1 6 0hm center sony speaker and 4 8 ohm polk audio surround speakers will this cause my 6ohm Sony- STRDH550 receiver to burn out? i just had to send my Brand new receiver in for replacement but i dont know if it was because of the 6 ohm center speaker i know 8 ohms on a 6 ohm rated receiver is fine but i don't know about the single center @ 6ohms ? i saw a polk audio center that was 8 ohms but i figured this sony was better at the time not even a month old either *sigh*
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post #2 of 54 Old 07-27-2015, 04:44 PM
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If your receiver can handle 6 ohm loads then it can also handle 8 ohm loads. 8 ohm speakers are easier to drive.

I would suggest you get the Polk center so that it will match your other Polk speakers though. You want all your speakers to have the sonic characteristics if possible.

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post #3 of 54 Old 07-27-2015, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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If your receiver can handle 6 ohm loads then it can also handle 8 ohm loads. 8 ohm speakers are easier to drive.

I would suggest you get the Polk center so that it will match your other Polk speakers though. You want all your speakers to have the sonic characteristics if possible.
do you think having the center speaker @ 6 ohms caused the receiver to act up? i know sony isnt the best of brands anymore
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post #4 of 54 Old 07-27-2015, 05:59 PM
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No. I mix 6 ohm and 8 ohm speakers with my Denon receiver for many years and haven't had any problems at all
It may just be that your Sony STR-DH550 is very entry level and you need a more powerful receiver. How loud do you play your system?

The power supply on that receiver is only 200W and for comparison the entry level Denon 500BT has a 310W power supply.

Are you using bare speaker wire or banana plugs to the back of the receiver?

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post #5 of 54 Old 07-27-2015, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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No. I mix 6 ohm and 8 ohm speakers with my Denon receiver for many years and haven't had any problems at all
It may just be that your Sony STR-DH550 is very entry level and you need a more powerful receiver. How loud do you play your system?

The power supply on that receiver is only 200W and for comparison the entry level Denon 500BT has a 310W power supply.

Are you using bare speaker wire or banana plugs to the back of the receiver?
it says its a 725 watt 5.2 receiver and i use bare 18 gauge wire center speakers 145 rms and the polk surrounds are 100 max i think
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post #6 of 54 Old 07-27-2015, 10:35 PM
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There is no such thing as a 6 ohm amp, only amps that have their power rated at 6 ohms.

In the case of Sony, no speaker can be less than 6 ohms, however, being more than 6 ohms is no problem.

In your case ... don't worry about it.

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post #7 of 54 Old 07-27-2015, 10:41 PM
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power consumption on the back of the receiver says 200 watts. No way can you get 725 watts out of that.

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post #8 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 03:55 AM - Thread Starter
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power consumption on the back of the receiver says 200 watts. No way can you get 725 watts out of that.
Sony - 725W 5.2-Ch. 4K Ultra HD and 3D Pass-Through A/V Home Theater Receiver - Black Model: STRDH550 that's what i bought it was on sale its definetly 725 watts 725W total power
145W x 5 @ 6 ohms, 1kHz, 0.9% THD for rich, powerful sound.
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post #9 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason the otaku View Post
Sony - 725W 5.2-Ch. 4K Ultra HD and 3D Pass-Through A/V Home Theater Receiver - Black Model: STRDH550 that's what i bought it was on sale its definetly 725 watts 725W total power
145W x 5 @ 6 ohms, 1kHz, 0.9% THD for rich, powerful sound.
Jason, 725W is the headline figure Sony's marketing department would have you believe. You need to look at the fine print here: http://store.sony.com/5.2-ch.-4k-a-v...er-Electronics (under the SPECIFICATIONS tab).

The 145W figure is arrived at by testing a single channel at a time ("1ch driven") by driving an easy tone (1kHz) into a light load (6Ω) until a very high distortion number (0.9% THD) is reached. The marketers then multiply this single channel figure by the number of channels. Unfortunately, this is simply not representative of the true capabilities of the unit's power supply and amplifier section.

By way of contrast, you'd need to be looking at unit like this to produce about 145W into 5 channels simultaneously: Denon AVR-5308CI A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures.

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post #10 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason the otaku View Post
Sony - 725W 5.2-Ch. 4K Ultra HD and 3D Pass-Through A/V Home Theater Receiver - Black Model: STRDH550 that's what i bought it was on sale its definetly 725 watts 725W total power
145W x 5 @ 6 ohms, 1kHz, 0.9% THD for rich, powerful sound.
Can a AAA battery power a electric car to 100mph?

No. Simple physics.

If the Sony PSU is say rated around 200W, then with 100% efficiency (it won't be that) then it may have something like 40W maximum all channels driven, but it's lower than that.

It's like Aiwa amps of old 10000W PMPO at 10% THD, 1 channel driven, into 6 ohm DIN

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post #11 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Jason, 725W is the headline figure Sony's marketing department would have you believe. You need to look at the fine print here: http://store.sony.com/5.2-ch.-4k-a-v...er-Electronics (under the SPECIFICATIONS tab).

The 145W figure is arrived at by testing a single channel at a time ("1ch driven") by driving an easy tone (1kHz) into a light load (6Ω) until a very high distortion number (0.9% THD) is reached. The marketers then multiply this single channel figure by the number of channels. Unfortunately, this is simply not representative of the true capabilities of the unit's power supply and amplifier section.

By way of contrast, you'd need to be looking at unit like this to produce about 145W into 5 channels simultaneously: Denon AVR-5308CI A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures.

whats each channels wattage then when connected to 5 speakers? my centers rated at 145 rms and the rest are under 100 rms
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post #12 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 05:27 AM
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That Denon is 141W, all channels driven. As for power handling of your speakers you really don't have to pay too much attention to that.
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post #13 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 10:46 AM
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It is not uncommon for the Power Supplies of AV Receivers to be under-rated. It is quite common for a 700w total (100w x 7) to have a 500w power supply on the assumption that not all channels are driven equally, and that it is unlikely that all channels will be driven to full power at the same time.

However, a 200w power supply on a 700w amp is a bit extreme, but then the retail on this amp is $250. They had to make some sacrifices to hit that crazy low price point. You don't get something for nothing. To get the perception of power at a low price, they simply sacrificed in other areas, one of which was the power supply.

In any amp, it is not the Power Amps that limit the system, but the Power Supplies. No matter how much the amps are rate on their own, the system can never draw more power than the Rating of the Power Supply.

In the system in question, with all channels (5x) driven to full power, the best you can get is 40 watts per channel. Though I have seen tests of AVRs where the all channel driven power is down around 25w to 30w/ch. As someone said - simple physics.

Like I said, the true limit of any amp is the Power Supply, but Stereo Amps typically have over-rated power supplies. Though just from memory, I believe I saw a 60w/ch (120w total) Stereo amp that had a 190w Power Supply.

AVR's typically have under-rated power supplies - 700w amps, 500w power supply. Though not quite as under-rated as this example.

But you also have to understand that you are on the low end of AV Receivers. If we allow the price of one channel to account for all the additional electronics in this AVR, then each amp channel is worth probably less than $50 each.

If you can spend in the range of $2000 for an AVR, it will likely be Power Rated with all channels driven.

So, the short version of all this rambling is that it is not uncommon for AVRs to under-rate their Power Supplies. It happens on all but the very best AV Receivers.

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post #14 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post
power consumption on the back of the receiver says 200 watts. No way can you get 725 watts out of that.
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Can a AAA battery power a electric car to 100mph?

No. Simple physics.

If the Sony PSU is say rated around 200W, then with 100% efficiency (it won't be that) then it may have something like 40W maximum all channels driven, but it's lower than that.
The 200W figure on the back of a receiver is a long-term average, and doesn't relate to instantaneous audio power. In a power supply, there is energy storage. An audio peak can demand that storage and hit a power level higher than the long-term power supply average input. I do agree it's wrong to just add all channels up, especially when they aren't rated ACD, but on the other hand, no program material ever demands full, equal power, ACD either. Sony is guilty of a bit of marketing hype, but it's not as bad as it seems.
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post #15 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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The 200W figure on the back of a receiver is a long-term average, and doesn't relate to instantaneous audio power. In a power supply, there is energy storage. An audio peak can demand that storage and hit a power level higher than the long-term power supply average input. I do agree it's wrong to just add all channels up, especially when they aren't rated ACD, but on the other hand, no program material ever demands full, equal power, ACD either. Sony is guilty of a bit of marketing hype, but it's not as bad as it seems.
so youre saying it has something like a power capacitor to use the 200 watt PSU to store 725 watts and push it to the speakers as needed?
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post #16 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 06:45 PM
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so youre saying it has something like a power capacitor to use the 200 watt PSU to store 725 watts and push it to the speakers as needed?
No, it will never delivery anything close to that. That 745 watts is marketers dishonesty on two levels.

First level:

That receiver is rated at a maximum of delivering 145 watts to a single channel at 6 Ohms (under an 8 Ohm draw, it would even be less) and that is a single channel, with no other power draw from the other channels.

Marketers then take that peak dishonestly multiple that maximum on one channel across all the channel and list the power delivery accordingly even though it physically cannot come anywhere close to doing that.

Second level:

Not only is that 5 times one channel dishonest but a receiver cannot even deliver that maximum power output to even one channel continuously - it is a peak figure. If it delivered that peak very long, the unit would overheat and shut down.

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post #17 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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No, it will never delivery anything close to that. That 745 watts is marketers dishonesty on two levels.

First level:

That receiver is rated at a maximum of delivering 145 watts to a single channel at 6 Ohms (under an 8 Ohm draw, it would even be less) and that is a single channel, with no other power draw from the other channels.

Marketers then take that peak dishonestly multiple that maximum on one channel across all the channel and list the power delivery accordingly even though it physically cannot come anywhere close to doing that.

Second level:

Not only is that 5 times one channel dishonest but a receiver cannot even deliver that maximum power output to even one channel continuously - it is a peak figure. If it delivered that peak very long, the unit would overheat and shut down.
thats what has been happening to my reciever and i had to send it back to sony because it was randomly shutting off and on for no reason even when nothing was playing i cant even return it to best buy for a full refund and buy a new reciever its BS i dont know what to do now i have all these good speakers and a brand new crap receiver thats going to be overloading again even if they send me a new unit
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post #18 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 07:02 PM
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thats what has been happening to my reciever and i had to send it back to sony because it was randomly shutting off and on for no reason even when nothing was playing i cant even return it to best buy for a full refund and buy a new reciever its BS i dont know what to do now i have all these good speakers and a brand new crap receiver thats going to be overloading again even if they send me a new unit
Your receiver should be able to handle that load I would think.

For example, what volume level do you listen to it?

If you are around a moderately loud consistent range (something like 75-80dBs *) then your speaker demand is probably around 1/2 to 3/4 a watt on average. And during dynamic sound peaks, a channel or two might hit 95-100 dBs which is pretty loud (would damage ears over a sustained period), and at 95-100 dBs a speaker would probably be drawing 50 to 75 watts (each 10 dB increase increases power draw roughly 10 fold.) Assuming just one or two channels are peaking at a time, your receiver should handle that and be able to sustain it.

So unless, you are listening at pretty high volume levels, your receiver should be able to handle those speakers I would think - so perhaps it does have a defect and a replacement or it being fixed would help.


* that is higher than normal living music and louder than a vacuum cleaner if you were standing by it while it was running: http://www.industrialnoisecontrol.co...e-examples.htm

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post #19 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 07:08 PM
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And when you get it back or get another receiver, don't use 18 gauge wire for the speakers! Use 14 gauge wire at most.

The numbers run counter-intuitively: the higher the gauge, the thinner the wire and thus the higher its resistance, which means the less current it can pass at a given voltage across the speaker terminals.

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post #20 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 07:23 PM
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thats what has been happening to my reciever and i had to send it back to sony because it was randomly shutting off and on for no reason even when nothing was playing i cant even return it to best buy for a full refund and buy a new reciever its BS i dont know what to do now i have all these good speakers and a brand new crap receiver thats going to be overloading again even if they send me a new unit
Also, I wanted to check on the following since you were talking about speaker Ohms. Did you change the Ohm setting on your receiver either via a switch or through settings? If so, that might be the cause of the problems. If you did change the Ohm setting on your receiver, please research it (it typically just lowers how much power your receiver outputs well below the stock setting. Here is a good video about that:




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post #21 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 07:26 PM - Thread Starter
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And when you get it back or get another receiver, don't use 18 gauge wire for the speakers! Use 14 gauge wire at most.

The numbers run counter-intuitively: the higher the gauge, the thinner the wire and thus the higher its resistance, which means the less current it can pass at a given voltage across the speaker terminals.
i bought 16 gauge with banana plugs im trying to get a refund
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post #22 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, I wanted to check on the following since you were talking about speaker Ohms. Did you change the Ohm setting on your receiver either via a switch or through settings? If so, that might be the cause of the problems. If you did change the Ohm setting on your receiver, please research it (it typically just lowers how much power your receiver outputs well below the stock setting. Here is a good video about that:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou5bO8P2Drw
my reciever is a low level reciever it doesnt have an ohm adjustment setting best buy wont issue a refund its BS im disputing it with my credit card then buying a better reciever which brands are good
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post #23 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 07:45 PM
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my reciever is a low level reciever it doesnt have an ohm adjustment setting best buy wont issue a refund its BS im disputing it with my credit card then buying a better reciever which brands are good

Figure out what must-have features you need then check if any of last year's model meet those needs. What is usually the best value, assuming it meets your needs, is to buy a last year model that is still in retail outlets. You can usually step up a level at around same price doing that.

By the way, when did you buy it? Bestbuy is strict on their returns now - like 15 days (I try not to shop there because of it.)

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post #24 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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What features do you need?

What is usually the best value, assuming it meets your needs, is to buy a last year model that is still in retail outlets. You can usually step up a level at around same price doing that.

By the way, when did you buy it?
i bought it on July 6th for 200$ on sale http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-725...&skuId=4418007 its now 250$ i want something that wont keep frying out i dont mind paying 350 if its good 7.2 id love if its good enough
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I just got a Denon X2200W. Last years model was the X2100W and is the same except mine has HDCP 2.2, Atmos and HDMI 2.0a and the X2100W does not. If you do not need any of those, you can get the X2100W for $399.99 at many places (It was around $750 a year ago.) If you paid sales tax at BestBuy, it is probably around $100 more than you paid all together if you buy online, and you could get it somewhere like Crutchfield that has a 60-day return policy (I think they will provide a shipping label back for $10 but confirm for a heavy item like a receiver.)

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-d7effbJ...N-Command.html

But that is not going to be that much more power as far as volume levels, because every 10dB is a 10 fold increase in power, so 85 to 95 watts peak on two channels is not really any more than what that Sony could should have been able to do (probably around 70-80 watts peak on two channels) as far as volume level because that ~20% more power is only going to give you 1 to 2 dBs more in peak volume level if that. That receiver would just give you better calibration and a little more head room adn would have a better warranty (3 years for their X-series.)

So perhaps a Yamaha 377 (2014) or 379 (2015) that are comparable to that Sony might be a good option - Yamaha is generally regarded as very reliable. But again, it depends on your volume levels. Unless you are listening at very high levels (like you can't concentrate on anything but what you are hearing) that Sony should have been fine.

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post #26 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 08:22 PM
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i bought it on July 6th for 200$ on sale http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-725...&skuId=4418007 its now 250$ i want something that wont keep frying out i dont mind paying 350 if its good 7.2 id love if its good enough
Yeah, it is beyond Bestbuy's policy but their policy is one of, if not the, most restrictive of retailers at 15 days.

I would go talk with a manager and just tell the manager it is shutting on and off - do not tell the manager about your 6 Ohms speakers (it will just be an excuse for the manager to use) and ask for refund. If you are nice, the manager might allow an exception, and if the manager does not, it shows you tried and will carry weight in a merchant dispute.

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post #27 of 54 Old 07-28-2015, 10:08 PM
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so youre saying it has something like a power capacitor to use the 200 watt PSU to store 725 watts and push it to the speakers as needed?
No. The 725W figure is pure fiction. It's the multiplying of a single-channel spec times the number of channels, which implies it's an ACD figure, which it isn't. But, also, no way it's so bad as it is either. The Sony in this thread is rated at 105W into 6 ohms, two channels driven, which is a reasonable way to rate an AVR. There simply is no program material that will ever drive all channels to full output, and occasional peaks can be handled by the energy storage in something exactly like a capacitor in the power supply.

The 200W rating is a long term average. The AVR probably idles much lower, and if you drive two channels to the rated 105W, that clearly adds up to more than 200W, so if you measured the actual power consumption at that moment, it would likely be more like 300W.

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post #28 of 54 Old Yesterday, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, it is beyond Bestbuy's policy but their policy is one of, if not the, most restrictive of retailers at 15 days.

I would go talk with a manager and just tell the manager it is shutting on and off - do not tell the manager about your 6 Ohms speakers (it will just be an excuse for the manager to use) and ask for refund. If you are nice, the manager might allow an exception, and if the manager does not, it shows you tried and will carry weight in a merchant dispute.
i bought it at bestbuy.com since i dont drive and have no store neear me and ive called them on the phone 3 + times for a refund and they said they can only "fix" it so i had my credit card go after them and they gave me a refund untill best buy gets their **** together 15 day return policy is plain stupid and it breaks under 30 never getting sony again
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post #29 of 54 Old Yesterday, 08:16 AM
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Every receiver can handle a 6 ohm center with 8 ohm surrounds. It just depends on how loud they can play. All things being equal, a receiver with a 200 watt PSU can't be played as loud as one with a 300 watt PSU.

In the future, any brand new receiver that only costs $200, in all likelihood, can't be played at loud volumes.
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post #30 of 54 Old Yesterday, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
Every receiver can handle a 6 ohm center with 8 ohm surrounds. It just depends on how loud they can play. All things being equal, a receiver with a 200 watt PSU can't be played as loud as one with a 300 watt PSU.

In the future, any brand new receiver that only costs $200, in all likelihood, can't be played at loud volumes.
currently looking at this Receiver like one of the other posters suggested looks great for the price http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Meipipx...N-Command.html or this one which is HDCP 2.2 compliant for my 4k tv http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033AVS7...0W.html?tp=179

Last edited by Jason the otaku; Yesterday at 12:17 PM.
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