GoldenEar Triton One vs Revel Performa3 F208 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 36Likes
Reply
Thread Tools
post #1 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 4
GoldenEar Triton One vs Revel Performa3 F208

Both $5,000. Both recipients of rave reviews. Both immaculate sounding.

What experiences do you guys have with these two giant-killers? What opinions do you have about the units, lines, and companies?
UlamsCosmicCipher is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 10:47 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Technically speaking, the Revel F208 is definitely the better of the two, hands down.

Here's some measurements for you:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...rticle&id=1357
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...rticle&id=1238
neutralguy likes this.
energizerfellow is offline  
post #3 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 11:01 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 31,050
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked: 2302
Quote:
Originally Posted by energizerfellow View Post
Technically speaking, the Revel F208 is definitely the better of the two, hands down.

Here's some measurements for you:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...rticle&id=1357
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...rticle&id=1238
This ^

Not really close IMO.

Although the links did not work for me FYI

Regarding speakers, speaker choice and consideration is very much about application so it's best to first worry about that part before you concern yourself with the small nuances of performance differences between brands and models.

That said, if you can get to the point where you should be concerned with those small nuances, technically speaking, that's an area the Revel will pull away from the pack and lead. I know the design team and test team works a lot towards that part, and how the speaker will interact with the room, and how well they are able to measure it's performance.

I am a believer that accuracy is good, and a more accurate speaker is a better speaker. If you agree then you'll enjoy the Revel I think.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."

Last edited by Mfusick; 02-08-2016 at 11:06 AM.
Mfusick is online now  
post #4 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 11:10 AM
Member
 
bose301s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Carrboro, NC
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 21
I've listened to both on the past week actually, they both do everything well and sound amazing, I honestly don't think you can go wrong either way, but the Triton One definitely reaches lower in the bass and has more bass impact.
captainbrent likes this.
bose301s is online now  
post #5 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 11:21 AM
Senior Member
 
captainbrent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Panama City, Panama
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by UlamsCosmicCipher View Post
Both $5,000. Both recipients of rave reviews. Both immaculate sounding.

What experiences do you guys have with these two giant-killers? What opinions do you have about the units, lines, and companies?
I can't speak about the Revels but my Triton Ones, in my well treated but non-dedicated room, sound absolutely fantastic. I also happen to like the monolithic look. GoldenEar seems to be a very approachable company and you can even talk with the designer of the speaker and owner of the company.

Sure, you can look at all the graphs but it really boils down to try to audition them, in your environment, or something similar, and let your ears make the decision!

I will add that I'm sure that the Revels are very nice speakers, too.

Cheers
shivaji likes this.

Marantz AV8802A | Wyred 4 Sound (500W X 3, 250W X 2) | Marantz MM7025 (140W X 2) | Oppo BDP-83 (waiting on a 4K version) | ATV3 | Popcorn Hour V-Ten | Vizo M65-C1 (waiting for Oled to mature a bit) | MiniDSP DDRC-88A | Oppo PM1 | APC H-15 power conditioners (x2)
GoldenEar Triton 1's (FL & FR) | SuperCenter XL (C) | Aon 2's (SL & SR) | SuperSat 3's (FHL & FHR) | SVS PB13-Ultra

Last edited by captainbrent; 02-08-2016 at 11:29 AM.
captainbrent is online now  
post #6 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 11:26 AM
Senior Member
 
captainbrent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Panama City, Panama
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by energizerfellow View Post
Technically speaking, the Revel F208 is definitely the better of the two, hands down.

Here's some measurements for you:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...rticle&id=1357
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...rticle&id=1238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
This ^

Not really close IMO.

Although the links did not work for me FYI

Regarding speakers, speaker choice and consideration is very much about application so it's best to first worry about that part before you concern yourself with the small nuances of performance differences between brands and models.

That said, if you can get to the point where you should be concerned with those small nuances, technically speaking, that's an area the Revel will pull away from the pack and lead. I know the design team and test team works a lot towards that part, and how the speaker will interact with the room, and how well they are able to measure it's performance.

I am a believer that accuracy is good, and a more accurate speaker is a better speaker. If you agree then you'll enjoy the Revel I think.
Just curious guys, have either of you had an opportunity to audition the Ones, in a well setup environment?

Marantz AV8802A | Wyred 4 Sound (500W X 3, 250W X 2) | Marantz MM7025 (140W X 2) | Oppo BDP-83 (waiting on a 4K version) | ATV3 | Popcorn Hour V-Ten | Vizo M65-C1 (waiting for Oled to mature a bit) | MiniDSP DDRC-88A | Oppo PM1 | APC H-15 power conditioners (x2)
GoldenEar Triton 1's (FL & FR) | SuperCenter XL (C) | Aon 2's (SL & SR) | SuperSat 3's (FHL & FHR) | SVS PB13-Ultra
captainbrent is online now  
post #7 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 11:52 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Although the links did not work for me FYI
Try these (their site is slow, so wait...):
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...nts&Itemid=153
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/ind...nts&Itemid=153

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbrent View Post
Just curious guys, have either of you had an opportunity to audition the Ones, in a well setup environment?
Yes I have and it's not really even a fair fight. Revel hands down.

If you want more bass, do it right and get a pair of subs. Get a pair from JL or the matching Revel if you have money, a pair of Rythmik F12/F15HP if you're trying to save some money.
energizerfellow is offline  
post #8 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 12:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 31,050
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked: 2302
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainbrent View Post
Just curious guys, have either of you had an opportunity to audition the Ones, in a well setup environment?
I heard them at Cedia, and another demo.

I am more a measurements guys, than an ears guy.

Your ears tell lies.
Shniks likes this.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
post #9 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 12:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 2,497
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Both option are great products. I think when it comes to speakers I'm an "ears guy". That said a possible better value is the GE Triton 5 and sub.
@ula mscc - shoot me an email if you have the time.

Mike Miles
ICR | Home based AV Business - mmiles442004@yahoo.com
Process Integration Inc. | System Integration - mmiles@processintegrationinc.com
Open Automation Software | SCADA and more mikemiles@opcsystems.com
mmiles is online now  
post #10 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 01:00 PM
Senior Member
 
captainbrent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Panama City, Panama
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by energizerfellow View Post
Yes I have and it's not really even a fair fight. Revel hands down.
Fair enough...I have not had the opportunity to audition the Revels but I also don't feel the need to as I'm more than satisfied with the Ones.

Also, there is a post above which would appear to disagree with your assessment of "Revel hands down". Just goes to show that this is all very subjective and personal stuff!

Quote:
Originally Posted by energizerfellow View Post
If you want more bass, do it right and get a pair of subs. Get a pair from JL or the matching Revel if you have money, a pair of Rythmik F12/F15HP if you're trying to save some money.
Personally, I have 'a' sub (don't really have the space for a 2nd) but I don't use it for 2 channel stuff as the Ones are providing me with more than enough bass extension. My sub comes into play with multi channel music and movies. I'm satisfied!

Marantz AV8802A | Wyred 4 Sound (500W X 3, 250W X 2) | Marantz MM7025 (140W X 2) | Oppo BDP-83 (waiting on a 4K version) | ATV3 | Popcorn Hour V-Ten | Vizo M65-C1 (waiting for Oled to mature a bit) | MiniDSP DDRC-88A | Oppo PM1 | APC H-15 power conditioners (x2)
GoldenEar Triton 1's (FL & FR) | SuperCenter XL (C) | Aon 2's (SL & SR) | SuperSat 3's (FHL & FHR) | SVS PB13-Ultra
captainbrent is online now  
post #11 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 01:03 PM
Senior Member
 
captainbrent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Panama City, Panama
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I heard them at Cedia, and another demo.

I am more a measurements guys, than an ears guy.

Your ears tell lies.
To each their own but, when I'm sitting in front of my speakers, I'm listening with my ears, not looking at graphs!
MUDCAT45 likes this.

Marantz AV8802A | Wyred 4 Sound (500W X 3, 250W X 2) | Marantz MM7025 (140W X 2) | Oppo BDP-83 (waiting on a 4K version) | ATV3 | Popcorn Hour V-Ten | Vizo M65-C1 (waiting for Oled to mature a bit) | MiniDSP DDRC-88A | Oppo PM1 | APC H-15 power conditioners (x2)
GoldenEar Triton 1's (FL & FR) | SuperCenter XL (C) | Aon 2's (SL & SR) | SuperSat 3's (FHL & FHR) | SVS PB13-Ultra
captainbrent is online now  
post #12 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 01:20 PM
Senior Member
 
captainbrent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Panama City, Panama
Posts: 346
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
Both option are great products. I think when it comes to speakers I'm an "ears guy".
Definitely agree with both statements but there is no right, or wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post
That said a possible better value is the GE Triton 5 and sub.
A good option, for sure, but the Ones, with external sub(s), are impressive!

Marantz AV8802A | Wyred 4 Sound (500W X 3, 250W X 2) | Marantz MM7025 (140W X 2) | Oppo BDP-83 (waiting on a 4K version) | ATV3 | Popcorn Hour V-Ten | Vizo M65-C1 (waiting for Oled to mature a bit) | MiniDSP DDRC-88A | Oppo PM1 | APC H-15 power conditioners (x2)
GoldenEar Triton 1's (FL & FR) | SuperCenter XL (C) | Aon 2's (SL & SR) | SuperSat 3's (FHL & FHR) | SVS PB13-Ultra

Last edited by captainbrent; 02-08-2016 at 01:25 PM.
captainbrent is online now  
post #13 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 03:37 PM
Senior Member
 
dscottj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 312
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Personally I've never been very happy with dome tweeters, going back some 30 years. I was more interested in the AMT of the Goldenears than the giant bass section, and have not been disappointed with my 1s. Recordings that I thought had high-end distortion in the master recording turned out to play crystal clear with the AMT design.

But that's just me. IMO, you should never buy a bicycle without riding it, and you should never buy a pair of speakers without listening to them. Reviews (and measurements) point you in the right direction, but your ears will tell you the truth.
dscottj is offline  
post #14 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 04:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MUDCAT45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,645
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 300 Post(s)
Liked: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I heard them at Cedia, and another demo.

I am more a measurements guys, than an ears guy.

Your ears tell lies.
I have to believe that your mind is telling lies if you can't determine which speaker you prefer without first reading a graph.
Marantz guy and COmusicaddict like this.
MUDCAT45 is online now  
post #15 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 05:35 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 31,050
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked: 2302
There's actually a lot of scientific studies that validate my positions on measurements. None I believe that counter it with opposition.

I think you misunderstood me.

It's not that my ears can't tell what I like, but that when it comes to accuracy (which most people do actually prefer) measurements can detect or reveal things much easier than your ears can. It might take certain media marterial or extended listening to focus in on something a measurement shows easily.

We are talking about two great speakers in this context, It's not like it's easily to see or hear differences.

Check out the YouTube video that shows what happens when you blind abx test a Revel, vs sighted listening. Or what happens when scores change in sighted vs blind testing. If you truly only use your ears (hard to do) then generally people like accurate sound more than inaccurate sound. And technically speaking an accurate speaker is a better speaker compared to a less accurate speaker. The point is for the speaker to add nothing, and take nothing away, and reproduce the source material as true as possible.
Greenwood Ave likes this.
Mfusick is online now  
post #16 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 10:27 PM
Senior Member
 
emcdade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
There's actually a lot of scientific studies that validate my positions on measurements. None I believe that counter it with opposition.

I think you misunderstood me.

It's not that my ears can't tell what I like, but that when it comes to accuracy (which most people do actually prefer) measurements can detect or reveal things much easier than your ears can. It might take certain media marterial or extended listening to focus in on something a measurement shows easily.

We are talking about two great speakers in this context, It's not like it's easily to see or hear differences.

Check out the YouTube video that shows what happens when you blind abx test a Revel, vs sighted listening. Or what happens when scores change in sighted vs blind testing. If you truly only use your ears (hard to do) then generally people like accurate sound more than inaccurate sound. And technically speaking an accurate speaker is a better speaker compared to a less accurate speaker. The point is for the speaker to add nothing, and take nothing away, and reproduce the source material as true as possible.

The same studies you allude to also show that people will generally pick a downward sloping frequency response from low to high. Those Goldenear speakers have a MUCH more extended and flat low end than the Revels do. If there's not any more room in the budget for subs or if the person wants a 2.0 channel setup for simplicity's sake, then the decision is far from clear cut. In fact i'd lean to the Goldenears for straight up 2.0 channel listening due to the bass response.
emcdade is offline  
post #17 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 10:47 PM
Member
 
bose301s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Carrboro, NC
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
There's actually a lot of scientific studies that validate my positions on measurements. None I believe that counter it with opposition.

I think you misunderstood me.

It's not that my ears can't tell what I like, but that when it comes to accuracy (which most people do actually prefer) measurements can detect or reveal things much easier than your ears can. It might take certain media marterial or extended listening to focus in on something a measurement shows easily.

We are talking about two great speakers in this context, It's not like it's easily to see or hear differences.

Check out the YouTube video that shows what happens when you blind abx test a Revel, vs sighted listening. Or what happens when scores change in sighted vs blind testing. If you truly only use your ears (hard to do) then generally people like accurate sound more than inaccurate sound. And technically speaking an accurate speaker is a better speaker compared to a less accurate speaker. The point is for the speaker to add nothing, and take nothing away, and reproduce the source material as true as possible.
There's a lot more to it than that, a soaker could give perfectly flat response yet still sound very poor because a FR graph really tells you very little about a speaker. You could have a speaker measure flat yet fail terribly on impulse response tests because of delays in drivers etc. Also waterfall plots are as useful or more than pure FR graphs because even with flat FR you could have a driver or cabinet that resonates terribly causing certain frequencies to persist longer causing smearing and general lack of precision to sounds.

Also, people do not prefer flat response, look up the Equal Loudness Curve or Fletcher-Munson curves and do some reading.
bose301s is online now  
post #18 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Thank you all for your responses. Some additional details...

I am looking to build a 2.0 system for music/movies (90%/10%; music is largely electronic, metal, jazz, and classical). Eventually I would like to throw in a sub and make it a 2.1, but that's further down the road. Room size is roughly 19'x19'.
$5K is the max I can go for speakers at this time.

I have had the good fortune to listen to the Revels several times, with my own music. They have fantastic, deeply three-dimensional imaging, and a certain smoothness that in no way detracts from their immensely detailed presentation. I have not had the chance to demo the Tritons yet, but have heard fantastic things about them as well. I started this topic to just get some general opinions from those with experience with one or both of these terrific speakers.

I had my mind made up to go with the Revels, but if I'm dropping 5k on speakers, I want to be absolutely sure that I've made the best possible choice!

Last edited by UlamsCosmicCipher; 02-09-2016 at 12:26 AM.
UlamsCosmicCipher is online now  
post #19 of 94 Unread 02-08-2016, 11:21 PM
Member
 
bose301s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Carrboro, NC
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked: 21
The Revels are amazing speakers, so are the GEs, I really don't think you can make a bad choice here.
bose301s is online now  
post #20 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 12:35 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
There's actually a lot of scientific studies that validate my positions on measurements. None I believe that counter it with opposition.

I think you misunderstood me.

It's not that my ears can't tell what I like, but that when it comes to accuracy (which most people do actually prefer) measurements can detect or reveal things much easier than your ears can. It might take certain media marterial or extended listening to focus in on something a measurement shows easily.

We are talking about two great speakers in this context, It's not like it's easily to see or hear differences.

Check out the YouTube video that shows what happens when you blind abx test a Revel, vs sighted listening. Or what happens when scores change in sighted vs blind testing. If you truly only use your ears (hard to do) then generally people like accurate sound more than inaccurate sound. And technically speaking an accurate speaker is a better speaker compared to a less accurate speaker. The point is for the speaker to add nothing, and take nothing away, and reproduce the source material as true as possible.
Hello,


To preserve my ears and their suceptibility, I reserve the evaluation of the sound speakers to measurement and the music to my ears.
+1
dinococus is offline  
post #21 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 12:40 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Listening the 208 at 8 feet of distance is-it possible ?


Thanks
dinococus is offline  
post #22 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococus View Post
Listening the 208 at 8 feet of distance is-it possible ?


Thanks

Yes, that is possible.
UlamsCosmicCipher is online now  
post #23 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 09:37 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 31,050
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked: 2302
Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post
The same studies you allude to also show that people will generally pick a downward sloping frequency response from low to high. Those Goldenear speakers have a MUCH more extended and flat low end than the Revels do. If there's not any more room in the budget for subs or if the person wants a 2.0 channel setup for simplicity's sake, then the decision is far from clear cut. In fact i'd lean to the Goldenears for straight up 2.0 channel listening due to the bass response.
Good points. To be clear, I think both speakers are excellent speakers and he could potentially be really happy with either.
But my preference would be for the more accuracy, it's simple like that. But the bass could be a big one, if 2.0. I agree 100%. Bass response has a big influence on subjective preference for speakers.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
post #24 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 09:41 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 31,050
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked: 2302
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinococus View Post
Hello,

To preserve my ears and their suceptibility, I reserve the evaluation of the sound speakers to measurement and the music to my ears.
+1
This makes sense at first, until you test it with a scientific method and find it's false. It's extremely difficult on dynamic content to easily identify speaker flaws, response anomalies, and things like that. It takes certain content and prolonged listening, but you will if you try. A quick listen is not satisfactory IMO.

Have you ever tried the Harman HOW TO LISTEN app ? Even 3db swings in specific bands is difficult to get right at first for normal people.

http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/

Check it out. You can download basically a similar program that Harman uses on their trained listeners for the subjective parts of their testing. It's a cool tool, and should sharpen your listening skills. But it won't bring you close to a measurement system like they use to measure those Revel's. Measurements and listening are both important.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
post #25 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 09:54 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 31,050
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked: 2302
Quote:
Originally Posted by bose301s View Post
There's a lot more to it than that, a soaker could give perfectly flat response yet still sound very poor because a FR graph really tells you very little about a speaker. You could have a speaker measure flat yet fail terribly on impulse response tests because of delays in drivers etc. Also waterfall plots are as useful or more than pure FR graphs because even with flat FR you could have a driver or cabinet that resonates terribly causing certain frequencies to persist longer causing smearing and general lack of precision to sounds.

Also, people do not prefer flat response, look up the Equal Loudness Curve or Fletcher-Munson curves and do some reading.
Yes. I do agree that there is a lot more to it than that. Your points actually reinforce my opinions

Much of the sound you hear is not only direct sound, but indirect sound (speaker off axis + room interaction). That's an area that Revel really excels at, and an area that Harman really focuses on in the design phase. They are very concerned with accuracy, and also concerned with total sound power.

Some speaker issues like cabinet resonance or driver problems, or anything that is going to be heard as a direct sound are easily identified by listeners. This is because once the human ear/brain is able to locate the direct sound, it's able to prioritize it and somewhat suppress the other sounds like reflections that arrive later in time. So a flaw in a direct sound will be noticed most easily because of how we hear. Speaker design must get those right, to be great.

Secondary is the indirect flaws, which might not just be a speaker flaw, but also a room/speaker flaw or something that happens between that interaction. But that all equates to total sound power at your ears or seats. You can't fix speaker problems like a directivity issue with EQ either. Or fix a room with DSP. I know it's attractive to think you can "fix" a speaker or a room, but the reality is far from the marketing on that.

When I say "measurements" I certainly do not only mean a direct sound frequency response graph near field.

I mean the kind of measurements that go into designing a Revel, the off axis, listening window, total sound power, and that stuff. There is a lot of attention given to the things you speak about above, which is why I believe it's a technically more accurate speaker. That takes nothing away from the Golden Ear at all, nor is it my intention. Just personally I prefer accuracy and if choosing between accuracy and less accuracy I will choose accuracy.

I have found that I used to think I liked speakers with more bass, or brighter, EQ smile face, and that sort of stuff. But after much education and listening, I found I was totally wrong. I did not actually know what I liked, I only thought I did. Turns out that I like accuracy. I generally prefer accurate speakers and the sound they make, and I have a preference in listening tests for speakers like studio monitors that focus in on accuracy.

There is some cheap ones in the market (think LSR JBL or Behringer Truth) that are designed for economy. (JBL on sale at guitar center for $99 each with amps) There is some higher end professional ones (think genelec or JBL M2) that chase more performance. You can spend many tens of thousands if you want. But accuracy is good IMO, and it should be value at all price points. I like the sound of accuracy, and I think most other people would too if they could achieve it. There becomes a room treatment and calibration issue that creeps into that happening, but I have never seen someone complain a speaker was too accurate.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
post #26 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 10:34 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I have found that I used to think I liked speakers with more bass, or brighter, EQ smile face, and that sort of stuff. But after much education and listening, I found I was totally wrong. I did not actually know what I liked, I only thought I did. Turns out that I like accuracy. I generally prefer accurate speakers and the sound they make, and I have a preference in listening tests for speakers like studio monitors that focus in on accuracy.

There is some cheap ones in the market (think LSR JBL or Behringer Truth) that are designed for economy. (JBL on sale at guitar center for $99 each with amps) There is some higher end professional ones (think genelec or JBL M2) that chase more performance. You can spend many tens of thousands if you want. But accuracy is good IMO, and it should be value at all price points. I like the sound of accuracy, and I think most other people would too if they could achieve it. There becomes a room treatment and calibration issue that creeps into that happening, but I have never seen someone complain a speaker was too accurate.
As Steve Jobs said, “A lot of times, people don’t know what they want until you show it to them.”

To that end I'd say that **** ass audio is so ubiquitous that most people wouldn't know technically good audio if it punched them in the face. Scientifically valid studies from the likes of Floyd Toole agree:
Mfusick likes this.
energizerfellow is offline  
post #27 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 2,497
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 151 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by UlamsCosmicCipher View Post
Yes, that is possible.
@UCC - shoot me an email please if you have the time.

mmiles442004@yahoo.com

Mike Miles
ICR | Home based AV Business - mmiles442004@yahoo.com
Process Integration Inc. | System Integration - mmiles@processintegrationinc.com
Open Automation Software | SCADA and more mikemiles@opcsystems.com
mmiles is online now  
post #28 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 01:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 31,050
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked: 2302
Great youtube video. Seen it many times and read his book. It shows a lot of what I am talking about very well.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is online now  
post #29 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 01:28 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Maybe I am nuts, but I like GE's measurements more. To each their own! Cannot go wrong with either speaker.
CinemaAwakens is offline  
post #30 of 94 Unread 02-09-2016, 01:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
beaveav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,637
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 515 Post(s)
Liked: 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinemaAwakens View Post
Maybe I am nuts, but I like GE's measurements more. To each their own! Cannot go wrong with either speaker.
They both measure pretty darn well, with each having a few subtle advantages and each having a few subtle disadvantages. It's not nearly the one-sided contest that some here seem to be claiming.

The only way for the OP to know which he prefers is to compare them side by side, preferably in his listening space, for a good amount of time (days, weeks even, not a few minutes at dealer A then a few minutes for the other speakers at dealer B).

Semi-retired Technology Insider.
Insist on Quality Posting.
beaveav is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off