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post #91 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 11:59 AM
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Thanks John,

As far as m5s or m6..Im only 8 ft away from my tv but if the m6's are a better speaker then the m5..I would want them..regardless of added price. I guess the question is, which would be the best speaker sitting 8 ft away ?.. (using nht s2 subs with either m5/6 for now.)

Oh yea one other question. With the music series, the listener is supposed to be 1 1/2 the distance back from the midpoint of the speaker "spread" per nht...This is impossible for me and I was wondering what you reccomend for speaker spread versues listener distance with the T series..
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post #92 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 12:08 PM
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john, a technical question for u regarding T5s.

the single A1 mono amp looks so thin, is it a digital amp? NHT configures this mono amp to drive two B5's (woofer sections of T5's) by parallel wiring, isn't this a little too much for a single mono amp to handle? would u suggest two A1 amps for a pair of T5's instead? and what other dedicated subwoofer amps out there that u think better the A1?
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post #93 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 12:41 PM
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John,
I have NHT VT2.4's up front, NHT VS2.4's center and rears, along with NHT Ci1.5 (in-walls) on the sides. I have not auditioned the T5's or T6's yet. How do they compare to the VT2.4's and how do they match with the VS2.4's and the Ci1.5's?
I am using B&K Ref30 with the B&K7270.
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post #94 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 01:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by psujohny
Thanks John,

As far as m5s or m6..Im only 8 ft away from my tv but if the m6's are a better speaker then the m5..I would want them..regardless of added price. I guess the question is, which would be the best speaker sitting 8 ft away ?.. (using nht s2 subs with either m5/6 for now.)

Oh yea one other question. With the music series, the listener is supposed to be 1 1/2 the distance back from the midpoint of the speaker "spread" per nht...This is impossible for me and I was wondering what you reccomend for speaker spread versues listener distance with the T series..
The M5 is designed for a little closer presentation, but is also a tad warmer. The M6s have slightly more detailed upper mids, slightly more precise and detailed midbass and slightly wider soundstage. They will simply be slightly more forward which is usually not an issue and, if problematic can be dealt with by choosing different speaker cables.

If you are spreading too wide, you can put a little angle on the speakers and it will be fine. Speakers are generally affected similarly by being to far apart or too close, so a little angling will deal with it for the most part. Best to be a little too far apart though.
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post #95 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 01:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Billie
john, a technical question for u regarding T5s.

the single A1 mono amp looks so thin, is it a digital amp? NHT configures this mono amp to drive two B5's (woofer sections of T5's) by parallel wiring, isn't this a little too much for a single mono amp to handle? would u suggest two A1 amps for a pair of T5's instead? and what other dedicated subwoofer amps out there that u think better the A1?
The woofers are 12 ohm and 88dB efficiency, so two parallel out to 6 ohm and 94 dB efficiency. One is perfect. The A1 is quite good and many of my customers are now using it to run ALL their speakers. It is a Class G so it had dual voltage rails and goes to full Class G at 85W I believe. If you wanted to do stereo bass, an NAD C270 would be a good choice, but I like the A1.
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post #96 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 01:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Billie
john, a technical question for u regarding T5s.

the single A1 mono amp looks so thin, is it a digital amp? NHT configures this mono amp to drive two B5's (woofer sections of T5's) by parallel wiring, isn't this a little too much for a single mono amp to handle? would u suggest two A1 amps for a pair of T5's instead? and what other dedicated subwoofer amps out there that u think better the A1?
The woofers are 12 ohm and 88dB efficiency, so two parallel out to 6 ohm and 94 dB efficiency. One is perfect. The A1 is quite good and many of my customers are now using it to run ALL their speakers. It is a Class G so it had dual voltage rails and goes to full Class G at 85W I believe. If you wanted to do stereo bass, an NAD C270 would be a good choice, but I like the A1.
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post #97 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 02:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Static Wick
John,
I have NHT VT2.4's up front, NHT VS2.4's center and rears, along with NHT Ci1.5 (in-walls) on the sides. I have not auditioned the T5's or T6's yet. How do they compare to the VT2.4's and how do they match with the VS2.4's and the Ci1.5's?
I am using B&K Ref30 with the B&K7270.
VT-2.4s are great speakers. They have a few weak areas compared to T5s/T6s. The bass is not as tight and controlled as 2.9s and, of course, the T5s have control AND power. The upper bass/lower mids are a little thin as the 5" drivers are working a little to blend with the 10" woofer. Imaging is larger with wide dispersion, but that, in many rooms, comes at the expense of imaging precision. The midrange is a little forward and the treble is a tad bright. Of course, this is all relative to purely accurate and all on a small scale. Many speakers are FAR more colored than VT-2.4s. The T5s and T6s address all of these issues and improve on them noticeably. They both have tighter, more articulate, deeper bass, improved lower mid/upper bass, smoother upper mids and smoother, more refined treble. Imaging is more focused and more realistic and subtle. Considering your gear, you'd be very well off upgrading to these as you're a little top-heavy on electronics at the moment.
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post #98 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 02:37 PM
 
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Originally posted by John Ashman

Speakers are generally affected similarly by being to far apart or too close, so a little angling will deal with it for the most part. Best to be a little too far apart though.
Wait. That didn't sound right. What I meant is that different speakers tend to have similar problems when spaced either too far apart or too close together. But the NHT's handle being too far apart better than most. If you put them close together, they need to be angled out a little.
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post #99 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally posted by John Ashman
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! Sounds like you've been attending the "B&W School for the Elite" for the last several years :-) Why not come down here, I'll gather up all my customers and you can tell them that they're not music lovers and you can see how long you last in that environment. Only 10% at best even ask to hear a movie on them. They listen to music and make the decision solely on that. The assume good performance on theater and demand it on music.

From the "good or bass speakers don't make any difference" comment, I'll assume you've never heard a movie on a Meridian or Genesis system.

I also find it ironic that you're using your most accurate speakers in the theater system and listen to music on the less accurate ones. Well "how accurate do they have to be" for music anyway? :cool:
You can laugh all the way to your 400 discs CD changer! 400 CDs that's what your T5 music fan club has on average, like DJ.

I heard movies on Meridian speakers, if that's what you mean. It is no better than my five 3.3s with my 565 processor. Anyway a good processor is more important than good speakers in video. Then come the amps. Speakers are last.

I love my 3.3s. In their days they were one of the best cone speakers money could buy, and still are in many ways. But today they are a bit less accurate and much less transparent than Nautilus and Studios speakers, to name just a few.
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post #100 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 06:09 PM
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Anyway a good processor is more important than good speakers in video. Then come the amps. Speakers are last.
And to think I just needed a better amp for those Bose acoustimass speakers.

I learn all kinds of stuff lurking on this forum. :)

Regards,
John
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post #101 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 08:37 PM
 
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Originally posted by boudoir
You can laugh all the way to your 400 discs CD changer! 400 CDs that's what your T5 music fan club has on average, like DJ.

I heard movies on Meridian speakers, if that's what you mean. It is no better than my five 3.3s with my 565 processor. Anyway a good processor is more important than good speakers in video. Then come the amps. Speakers are last.

I love my 3.3s. In their days they were one of the best cone speakers money could buy, and still are in many ways. But today they are a bit less accurate and much less transparent than Nautilus and Studios speakers, to name just a few.
Uhhhh, yeah. I hate to tell you, but in stereo, DD or DTS, my NAD/T5 system is better than what you have going. Speakers/room acoustics/placement is 90% of what you hear, unless you've been listening to some snobby sales hack. 3.3s are great, but you sound like a typical audiophile, not a music lover. "it's the electronics". Uh huh. I'm sure you own all the recommended hi-fi recordings, but when I'm listening to Rush or Marillion or Peter Gabriel or Jethro Tull which still are lacking even with remasters compared to audiophile recordings, it's the music that moves me, not the amp I have. Last I heard, love of music wasn't measured in how many CDs you own or how much you have available to spend audio. Quite the contrary, many of my "biggest" music lover customers have the smallest systems and scrimp to buy a CD or two every once and awhile. And when they come in, they spend more time talking about the music than the next piece of stereo they need. You sound like the ideal B&W/Krell customer. I'm really surprised you are still hanging with those wildly inaccurate 3.3s. I'd really like you to forward me the FR graph on those and the N802s so I can see how right you are and wallow in self-pity. :D
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post #102 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 08:38 PM
 
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Originally posted by boudoir
You can laugh all the way to your 400 discs CD changer! 400 CDs that's what your T5 music fan club has on average, like DJ.

I heard movies on Meridian speakers, if that's what you mean. It is no better than my five 3.3s with my 565 processor. Anyway a good processor is more important than good speakers in video. Then come the amps. Speakers are last.

I love my 3.3s. In their days they were one of the best cone speakers money could buy, and still are in many ways. But today they are a bit less accurate and much less transparent than Nautilus and Studios speakers, to name just a few.
Uhhhh, yeah. I hate to tell you, but in stereo, DD or DTS, my NAD/T5 system is better than what you have going. Speakers/room acoustics/placement is 90% of what you hear, unless you've been listening to some snobby sales hack. 3.3s are great, but you sound like a typical audiophile, not a music lover. "it's the electronics". Uh huh. I'm sure you own all the recommended hi-fi recordings, but when I'm listening to Rush or Marillion or Peter Gabriel or Jethro Tull which still are lacking even with remasters compared to audiophile recordings, it's the music that moves me, not the amp I have. Last I heard, love of music wasn't measured in how many CDs you own or how much you have available to spend audio. Quite the contrary, many of my "biggest" music lover customers have the smallest systems and scrimp to buy a CD or two every once and awhile. And when they come in, they spend more time talking about the music than the next piece of stereo they need. You sound like the ideal B&W/Krell customer. I'm really surprised you are still hanging with those wildly inaccurate 3.3s. I'd really like you to forward me the FR graph on those, the T5s and the N802s so I can see how right you are and wallow in self-pity. :D
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post #103 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 09:04 PM
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"Anyway a good processor is more important than good speakers in video. Then come the amps. Speakers are last."

While I will agree that good HT may be somewhat "easier" to achieve than good music plaback, I disagree that speakers are last. No Way. Speakers affect the sound of your system more than any other component. Take your very impressive processor (no sarcasm - wish I had one) + good amps + insert a different brand of speakers, pick a popular brand that may not be as revealing asyour 3.3's, and you will see very quickly why you have no intention of getting rid of them any time soon.

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post #104 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 09:59 PM
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John,

Can you elaborate on why you think the T5s are much more accurate speakers than 3.3s? Sound & Vision measured the M5s (as mains) at +/- 4.6 dB from 79 Hz to 20 kHz.

Every reviewer who has measured the 3.3s are amazed by their measurements (the reviews came with the speakers). Here are some comments. Reviewers seem even more amazed by the low distortion numbers (too long to type).

"....+/- 0.5 dB from 8.5 kHz to 22 kHz.....flat within +/- 1.5 dB from 22 kHz down to the woofer range...." -- The Audio Critic

"they had the widest bandwidth of any full-range speaker I've ever used.....+/- 3.5 dB from 29 Hz to 20 kHz. This would have been spectacular performance in an anechoic chamber, and it's all the more amazing in a real room." -- Sound & Image

Also, Boudior doesn't seem like the type to wait for his next piece of gear if he's had his five 3.3s for *8* years and still using "just" 5.1 for his HT.
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post #105 of 364 Old 04-18-2003, 10:25 PM
 
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Hi Ricky,
Well, I'm quite sure I have never used the term "much more accurate than the 3.3s" in my lifetime. The T6s certainly seem a little more accurate. Trust me, if I only had a dollar for every time I said "The NHT 3.3s are one of the most accurate speakers ever made regardless of price"......

The T6s seem to me to be even MORE accurate though I haven't seen the measurements on them. I HAVE seen Home Theater mag's measurements of the T5s and they were measured at something like +/-1.25dB with much of the FR as little as +/-.5dB INCLUDING the entire bass range! I have NEVER seen a bass response this flat. Never! The curve appeared to be +/-.5dB from 28-90Hz. It was a mesa.

So, I have a LOT of respect for the 3.3s and even more respect for NHT for outdoing them. Boudoir's attitude just annoys me more than anything and his theory that NHT has gone downhill since the 3.3s only proves that he hasn't been out much lately, and, considering his recent $8000 purchase, it's best if he keeps thinking that NHT is just putting on cheap home theater speakers. The reality might be too painful to bear.
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post #106 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 02:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Ashman
.. Boudoir's attitude just annoys me more than anything and his theory that NHT has gone downhill since the 3.3s only proves that he hasn't been out much lately, and, considering his recent $8000 purchase, it's best if he keeps thinking that NHT is just putting on cheap home theater speakers. The reality might be too painful to bear.
Why don't you go on usenet at rec.audio.highend and rec.audio.opinion, where audiophiles hang, and tell them that the new NHT T series is not a cheap chinese built hometheater series but the new reference music series speakers from NHT replacing the 3.3s, instead of romancing innocents on this forum..
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post #107 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 05:37 AM
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John:

Trolls are all over the net (particularly on rec.audio.opinion). Their point in life is to get a rise out of you. Don't fall for the bait!

BTW, there is an ignore function on this board. That way you don't even have to read the annoying posts. It's easy to use. Go to the profile of the annoyer. At the bottom there is a choice to ignore posts from .... Click on it. Voila`. No more annoying posts.

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post #108 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 06:03 AM
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John,

I found the Home Theater review. In the quasi-anechoic listening window, the M5s measured +/- 1.29 from 200 Hz to 10 kHz...very good. S&V's measurements probably were wider because they were 2M (all the others are 1M?), in-room (instead of quasi-aneochoic?), and they went a little wider: 79 Hz to 20 kHz. You're right about the B5...looks like less than +/- 1.0 dB from 28-90 Hz. That is scary flat; I think the equalization from the X1 crossover helps here?


John and Boudoir,

This is a GREAT thread that *can* keep on going, please play nice :)
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post #109 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 11:13 AM
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Tony,

I remember you were considering VT3's. Do I understand correctly that you wound up with something from the Evolution series? How do you like them compared to your M&K's? Did you ever get a chance to listen to the VT3's?

John

Regards,
John
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post #110 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 11:57 AM
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John:

I never got to hear the VT3s. After analyzing things, I just felt they were too big for me (and my wife, in particular). I ended up with a set of Evos: T5s up front, M5s for center and rears, and SB2s for the back rears. I got a smoking deal from a dealer who discontinued the line.

Compared to the M&Ks they are certainly easier to listen to in my room (bare hardwood floors because of a cat that likes to pee on anything on the ground that's soft). I am amazed at how well they "decode" music, particularly complex classical works. The various choirs of the orchestra are just there with a naturalness that borders on the eerie. I've got the Mahler 6th SACD on Telarc, as well as the Vaughn Williams Sea Symphony and the sound is excellent: dynamic, subtle, smooth and natural. I'm in love (for now). These should stick around a while.:)

Tony

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post #111 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 12:57 PM
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john ashman or tonygeno, as i understand the B5's (woofer sections of T5's) are not shielded. how close the TV can they be placed at without doing harm to the video?
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post #112 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 01:17 PM
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Billie,

I think that's one I could actually answer for a change. The manual for the T5's states at least 18" from your TV. I have mine set up within a foot for my widescreen and haven't noticed any trouble. Also, with the actual viewing portion of the TV being higher than the B5 sub helps out as well. I haven't done much playing around with them yet, but so far it seems to be working pretty good with the subs facing out. Let me know if you have any more super "non-technical" questions, and I'd be more than happy to help out.

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post #113 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 01:53 PM
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Billie,

From the Secrets Review: "....I can tell you that the magnetic field around teh B6 is quite strong. As I moved the modules to their desired position, passing in front of my television at about 2 feet away, I noticed discoloration of its picture. NHT recommends that the modules be placed at least 18" from teh sides of the TV. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable in placing them any closer than about 24" from the TV sides."

Perhaps this is dependent on the TV brand/model?
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post #114 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 02:14 PM
 
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The T5s are useable with tubes as long as you keep a reasonable distance. Generally how you would normally place them for proper imaging. You cannot put the TV right next to one of them. The T6s simply should not me used with tube TVs under any reasonable circumstance. Even the M6 is not shielded quite enough for many tubes, especially the flat tubes such as Wegas and need to be a good 6" away. The B6 subs with 4 woofers is WAY too powerful to be even 3' or 4' away. BTW, the magnet structure on the Evolution woofer is HUGE. I've seen bigger, but not much. It is the main the reason I have T5s instead of T6s, the other being sheer value.

Has anyone noticed how how the VT3 looks like a prop from "2001"? Daaaaaaahhhh, Daaaaaaah, Daaaaaaaah.......... DADAH....Boom boom, Boom boom, Boom boom, Boom boom.............
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post #115 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 02:58 PM
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I went down and listened to the t5 and t6 today at my local dealer. The t5 was mated with the parasound halo amp/pre and the t6 was mated with a kenwood soveriegn reciever..

I kinda prefered the t6 over the t5 because it seemed to have a little more bite to it while still being smooth. Both systems overall I would say are a bit smoother and more dispered sounding then the 2.9s but when you were in the exact sweetspot it didnt seemed as focused as my 2.9s ..all speculation though as they dont have any music series left to do a direct comparision..

Maybe I have grown acustomed to the high frequencies on my 2,9s because the t5/6 seemed maybe a bit to layed back ?..Im not sure..They were certainly smooth and very enjoyable to listen to, also bass was excellant. I want to get them but Im still not convinced that they are BETTER then the 2.9s ? maybe flatter with a different signature...Im confused at this point and unable to do a true a/b...I just dont want to regret getting rid of my 2.9s that sound really dam good in my room....

To be fair, the dealers listening environment is open and not suited to music listening whatsoever..and the environment that my 2.9s are in, is much better....common..convince me that their is no question that they are better then my 2.9s!
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post #116 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 03:20 PM
 
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On the T5 measurement issue, this was interesting to me because virtually EVERY sub I saw measured in HT had a bell-shaped curve to it and virtually every tower or monitor had plenty of peaks and dips. I just started to figure HT mag had either bad measuring or a bad room or something. Then I saw the T5 curve and immediatley thought "you can NOT measure a speaker that flatly unless the speaker is right AND the technique is right". Then I looked at all the others in that issue and they were a mess. And, even it subsequent issues, the same technique shows all kinds of inaccuracies in most speakers. If you check out the CDM-9NTs in the February issue, it sort of explains my preferences quite a bit. What's interesting, I can listen to a speaker and imagine the FR curve. But audio reviewers don't seem to have this self-taught "gift". It's even more interesting when the guy doing the measuring says "I have NO idea why this guy didn't hear this" or "this peak here may correspond why "idiot reviewer" thought the speakers had "jump" or "detail" or......."
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post #117 of 364 Old 04-19-2003, 06:19 PM
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Has anyone noticed how how the VT3 looks like a prop from "2001"? Daaaaaaahhhh, Daaaaaaah, Daaaaaaaah.......... DADAH....Boom boom, Boom boom, Boom boom, Boom boom.............
The look appeals to me.:)

John,
Thank you for the PM response. Great thread. I still love my VT3 setup, but the EVO series is starting to sound very interesting.

Jose.

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post #118 of 364 Old 04-20-2003, 09:42 AM
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Why do the T5's and T6's sound different. The only thing I see is the 6's have a bigger mid and woofers. Is the crossover the same for each one.
Allen
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post #119 of 364 Old 04-20-2003, 11:01 AM
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The crossover points for the midrange are different on the T5 and T6 due to the different driver size.

Tony

In search of the Holy Grail.

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post #120 of 364 Old 04-20-2003, 02:57 PM
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VT 2.4 Question for John,
I'm using VT 2.4s as my main front speakers and was looking to fill out the rest of the system for surround sound; I'm using the Sherwood Newcastle AVP 9080 and AM 9080 combo for my amp and preamp/processor. I've been looking at picking up some used VS 2.4s to finish out the system, but I've also been looking at a pair of HDP2s instead of the VS 2.4s for the surrounds. I'm thinking that the placement of the HDP2s would be easier for my listening room but I'm wondering how they match with the VT 2.4s? Also interested if there are any other NHTs you would recommend to fill the center and surround roles? And one more question, any crossover upgrades available for the VT 2.4s? I love the sound for movies but with music it can be fatiguing.
Thanks,
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