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post #181 of 415 Old 05-11-2003, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark L. Schifter
When the new mbl stuff arrives next month I will do an open house here I think and invite all of our Colorado customers to check it all out... It should be fun... Good food... Good drink... and GOOD MUSIC and SOUND...

Wishing you all the very best...

mls [/b]
Do I hear another ROADTRIP ????:D :D

Kevin

BTW I will be there sat, had to make sure a buddy was covered for the weekend of road racing.

Kevin

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post #182 of 415 Old 05-11-2003, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by iamnotmad
Wow - That strikes me as incredibly dishonest. It's probably a good thing you did not tell them before they left.

Always the salesman.
Your usual self appears yet again...

The Office Depot guy was really interested in computers (as am I)... We talked for some time about my computer I have set up for Interpolating / Upsampling etc. --- sort of re-mastering if you will... I invited him over to see how this was done... and to look at some incredible new software I was demoing...

Afterwords... we just listened together in 2-channel... and he asked to hear my HT rig... I was all too happy to oblige... :)

He really enjoyed this... and since then I have lent him some re-mastered discs for HIS comparison on his 2-channel system... No harm... no foul...

The owner of the local wine shop is really a sensational guy... He shared his passion of wine with me one day for almost 90 minutes and we compared notes of what limited knowledge I have --- I invited him over to listen to the system... and to drink some Italian wine I'm fond of... we had a great time... and we'll do it again soon... but this time with a desert wine I have that is very hard to come by... and he will bring by something I'm dying to try...

All of it just fun stuff between "enthusiasts" (and I'm STILL a enthusiast at heart)...

Will I ever tell them... who know... the wine shop owner will have to know eventually... :) I have lots of speakers... and he has lots of wine... sounds like a good friendship in the making...

Live is good iamnotmad... only hoping you can find some of "that" for yourself...

All the best...

mls

Founder and President
av123 / Rocket Loudspeakers
Perpetual Technologies
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post #183 of 415 Old 05-11-2003, 07:41 PM
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Mark,
I have lots of wine and lots of Klipsch heritage, bet it sounds better at my place...lol
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post #184 of 415 Old 05-11-2003, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark L. Schifter

When the new mbl stuff arrives next month I will do an open house here I think and invite all of our Colorado customers to check it all out... It should be fun... Good food... Good drink... and GOOD MUSIC and SOUND...
Count me in on that one. I assume you'll be posting info on the AV123 forum or maybe direct e-mail invites. If the invites are direct, I hope you'll consider sending one my way.

The talk of various get-togethers in parts of the country have led me to ponder one myself, but I'm neck deep in planning various things at the moment. Maybe this winter....
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post #185 of 415 Old 05-11-2003, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sandbagger
Do I hear another ROADTRIP ????:D :D

Kevin

BTW I will be there sat, had to make sure a buddy was covered for the weekend of road racing.

Kevin
Feel free to drive. I would fly for this one. Hmm... Maybe I need to use some of my 170k+ frequent flyer miles. :D

Stereodude
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post #186 of 415 Old 06-02-2003, 06:35 PM
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Seth, It would be great to see you again at the end of the month in Dallas!!!
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post #187 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 05:54 AM
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Good point. However, I've seen many misleading posts talking about how Rocket sounds fantastic with low-end receivers. Definitely commercial. I've also seen some "Rocket enthusiasts" always ready to be there whenever a Rocket-related topic posted. Hard to believe they are not paid.

"There is no such a thing of free lunch"



Quote:
Originally posted by cpto
(Sorta longish) Just a comment here and a little bit off the subject. But I throw it out for your (and Mark's) consideration before naming any speaker the best.

The speaker is just the last in a chain of components. That means - as with any chain - that it is as weak as the weakest link. Some speakers "weigh" more and stress the chain and others "weigh less" and don't. And "best" is an extremely personal decision.

When I got my original speaker set (750, 200, 300) I was using a Denon 5600 (and because I didn't like the sound from the Denon with my old electrostats, an NAD 2700 amp). I broke the speakers in and was not especially entranced with the sound until I increased the volume to a listening level I would have expected in a live performance. Suddenly I was more than impressed. I felt that my purchase had been justified in full.

I documented this in an AVSForum thread that has since been removed.

Much as I liked the sound, I recently upgraded to a Denon 5803 receiver, mostly for the DTS and Dolby Ultra2 music options. I took the NAD amp out of the chain and fed directly from the Denon.

WOW! The Rockets were MUCH better! The sound was simply more alive! And I added two Cambridge Audio Newton S-300 speakers for the rear channels. Why? Because I had them and they were light weight. And could be direct, bipolar, or dipolar. And it cost nothing more than the new wiring.

The 7.1 sound is very good, with the Newtons integrating almost seamlessly with the Rockets. I listened to some of my Grammy HD recordings in 5.1 and found that the already excellent ambiance surrounded me even more realistically.

So I guess the point of this too-long message is that saying the Rocket speakers are the best under $#,### just doesn't make sense, and will do little more than offend others on AVSForum.

Based on my listening, they're the best for me. They were affordable, sounded extremely good, and took up little space compared to the electrostatic speakers. I also had extremely good customer service from rocket, and that was a major plus.

But I think if I tried to tell the world that these were the best speakers at a given price point I would be pilloried, and with good reason. My ears, taste, system, and room are not yours.

All I can add to the discussion is that for me the Rocket system exceeds all my expectations. And I invite you to hear it here. I've already had over a dozen folks stop by to audit. I don't push anything to them. I simply let them take over the controls and listen to what they want. And I suspect that that's the way Mark would prefer it.

Rick
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post #188 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat
Good point. However, I've seen many misleading posts talking about how Rocket sounds fantastic with low-end receivers. Definitely commercial. I've also seen some "Rocket enthusiasts" always ready to be there whenever a Rocket-related topic posted. Hard to believe they are not paid.

"There is no such a thing of free lunch"
You have had 10 posts here in 3 months (as Wildcat anyway), and each one has been insulting to this particular product, the people who enjoy them, or both. That's kinda weird, isn't it?

Fortunately, I too share your gift of identifying and reading hidden agenda. Having re-read your posts, extrapolating the hidden meaning behind the "Wildcat" moniker, and via prudent use of the tele-psychic I keep on retainer, I have deduced that your are in fact Dr. Amar G. Bose.

Confess now and cleanse your soul, Dr. Bose.
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post #189 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat


"There is no such a thing of free lunch"
What? ........
:confused:

Audio/Video/HD/HT addict
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post #190 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat
Good point. However, I've seen many misleading posts talking about how Rocket sounds fantastic with low-end receivers. Definitely commercial. I've also seen some "Rocket enthusiasts" always ready to be there whenever a Rocket-related topic posted. Hard to believe they are not paid.

"There is no such a thing of free lunch"
Believe it, Catty! I'm a recent "convert" and am very happy to relate my 100% positive experience with both the Rockets themselves and with the Onix folks. Class acts through and through.

RE: TANSTAAFL (the correct quote is "There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch") That is true. I post as payback for all the excellent advice I've gotten "free" from others here that allowed me to build a first-class HT with no prior experience. When I know I can make a good recommendation, I do. It feels good to see other's get as much pleasure from the Rockets as I do.

I find it amazing that someone could actually believe that a manufacturer would pay people for posting about their product. I can't imagine the mind-set that would consider that rational!

Gordon
Still waiting on a check from Mark

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post #191 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 08:21 AM
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No pay, No discounts, no free equipment, and its not from lack of trying:) . In fact, I prefer electrostatics, but I know my fiscal limits, and Rockets are very well engineered cone-based speakers :)
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post #192 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 08:41 AM
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I notice that Rocket enthusiasts are like Tivo enthusiasts in that they are so excited they want to 'share the love' . (I hope that expression does not offend anyone).

It's really refreshing IMO to see so many people who enjoy these speakers so much they want to share their experiences enthusiastically. It's so positive and I haven't see any real negativity towards other brands here.
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post #193 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 08:56 AM
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Bigwally, I do not think Dr. Bose is the only person speaking candidly. The reason that most of my posts were related to Rocket is that I heard them in person and was not convinced of those exagerated praises, especially when people saying that they got the ultimate result for both music and HT using low-end receivers. To me, that means either it is a low-end speaker or they were trying to sell. Anyway, no good for consumer.

Gordon, glad that you enjoy your setup, since that's the ultimate goal. However, satisfaction means different things to different people of different experiences. If you like, you may bring your favourite CDs and find a dealer with Dynaudio and B&W stuffs. After some serious listening, you might understand what people are talking about when they say that the Rocket is neither the ultimate nor the best bang for the bucks, even though they are okay speakers.
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post #194 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 09:20 AM
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May I ask where you heard them? Unfortunately, one of the results of selling speakers direct is the possiblility of hearing them in a not-so-good set up (placement etc).

It's all good though...you did not like them and that's cool. For lots of people that have auditioned [Dynaudio and B&W stuffs], they are a better value so that's the way they went.

As long as you *enjoy* *your* system, I don't care what speakers you have :D

Sean

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post #195 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 09:44 AM
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Man, can't we all let sleeping dogs lie. I can't tell you how many times in the past month I have read comments like these. I happen to LOVE my Rocket set-up as well as my REF 1's. In no way have I ever been paid by anyone at AV123 to talk about my gear that I have purchase from them. Last post on this thread for me.::
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post #196 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat
when people saying that they got the ultimate result for both music and HT using low-end receivers. To me, that means either it is a low-end speaker or they were trying to sell. Anyway, no good for consumer.

Who said they are "Ultimate" "using low end receivers"?

My rockets sounded starved with my low end receiver, its the first thing I upgraded. Most good speakers need a real receiver, thats elementary, Watson.
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post #197 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
If you like, you may bring your favourite CDs and find a dealer with Dynaudio and B&W stuffs
Heard these both and while I do agree that these sounded better TO ME than the Rockets I just got ........ There is no way on this planet that I can afford them now or ever.

SO ..... you have to keep things in perspective. Not everyone can afford that price level. Myself I just try to get the best I can get for what I can afford -- plain and simple. This is why I had nOrh speakers and now Rockets.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Greg

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post #198 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat
Bigwally, I do not think Dr. Bose is the only person speaking candidly. The reason that most of my posts were related to Rocket is that I heard them in person and was not convinced of those exagerated praises, especially when people saying that they got the ultimate result for both music and HT using low-end receivers. To me, that means either it is a low-end speaker or they were trying to sell. Anyway, no good for consumer.

Gordon, glad that you enjoy your setup, since that's the ultimate goal. However, satisfaction means different things to different people of different experiences. If you like, you may bring your favourite CDs and find a dealer with Dynaudio and B&W stuffs. After some serious listening, you might understand what people are talking about when they say that the Rocket is neither the ultimate nor the best bang for the bucks, even though they are okay speakers.
If you actually did hear them and didn't like them, that doesn't make them "low end" speakers unless while I wasn't looking, you were proclaimed the overall authority on such matters of taste. If it's build quality you're describing, then you're simply wrong.

I think we can live without your free consumer protection service, unless you can provide a compelling reason for us to take your words as something other than noises of general nastiness.

Have we seen you before using a different moniker?
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post #199 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat
Gordon, glad that you enjoy your setup, since that's the ultimate goal. However, satisfaction means different things to different people of different experiences. If you like, you may bring your favourite CDs and find a dealer with Dynaudio and B&W stuffs. After some serious listening, you might understand what people are talking about when they say that the Rocket is neither the ultimate nor the best bang for the bucks, even though they are okay speakers.
I never presumed to tell anyone else what is best for them. Not once. Everyone's ears must be the judge. Of course, I never made such a silly assertion as the manufacturer pays for forum posts like you did either.

Oh, BTW- I've done as you propose. Taken CD's that I was familiar with and listened to some very high-end speakers. I prefer the Rockets for HT. I own a recording studio and know a bit about sound. Your implicit assumption that those of us who love the Rockets are unsophisticated boobs simply compounds the foolishness of your posts.

So sorry you were not impressed with Rockets at your listening session. For whatever reason. I'm not going to assume you don't know what you're doing in a listening test. I'll be gracious and simply assume the Rocket sound is not your cup of tea. Not a very good reason to assert that those who prefer them are in some way misled or are part of some strange marketing conspiracy.

Gordon

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post #200 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat
Gordon, glad that you enjoy your setup, since that's the ultimate goal. However, satisfaction means different things to different people of different experiences. If you like, you may bring your favourite CDs and find a dealer with Dynaudio and B&W stuffs. After some serious listening, you might understand what people are talking about when they say that the Rocket is neither the ultimate nor the best bang for the bucks, even though they are okay speakers.
My HT used to be entirely Dynaudio Audience speakers and is currently Dynaudio Contours. I have been to Gordon's house and spent a wonderful afternoon enjoying his Rocket setup. I wouldn't say they were better than my Contours (I couldn't anyway... different room different equipment) which I think are the best sounding speakers I've heard to date but I enjoyed them as much as my Dynaudio Audience setup and they're nearly half the price and much better looking (although I understand the newest Dyn audience will be done in wood veneer!). Gordon was using seperate amps and I wonder how they would sound on the Denon alone. I can vouch for the fact that Gordon is no paid Rocket employee just someone who really enjoys his HT. I'm the same way with SVS subs. Just trying to help others get the most bang for their buck. What are you here for?

Mitch
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post #201 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 12:00 PM
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About the "veiled" thing with the 750s, turning up the treble won't help it and people who hear it don't like "tizzy" speakers. The problem, if you want to call it that, is in the midrange and lower treble. I think Mark said the depressed midrange was an intentional design decision. You can see it on the graph (6dB jump from 3500 to 5K) and people can hear it (the center sounds clearer than the 750.) Seems an odd design decision to not match the mains and center but, what the hey, I guess a lot of people must like it. Or maybe they just don't know any better. :D http://www.rocketloudspeakers.com/images/freq750.jpg

Dennis H
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post #202 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 01:01 PM
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12dB drop from 50Hz to 30Hz, not deep bass response.
5dB fluctuation from 300Hz to 6000Hz, no fidelity.

The platform between 50Hz and 300Hz may first impress people as tight/strong bass. I think many owners like it because of the wide dispersion tweeter. However, I totally agree with John that the sound image tends to be sacrisfied by adopting wide dispersion design.

Anyway, I could imagine the SPL response while listening to it.
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post #203 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 01:20 PM
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I don't see what peoples problem with the rocket's are. I don't see many people claiming them to be the end all. I've heard alot of speakers. I like some better than the rockets, but when comparing them to speakers in equal price brackets that we can afford, they can't be touched and that is our point. My case in point, my other options were b&w dm, psb image, paradigm monitor, & klipsch series 3 reference, in my opinion none of these can touch the rockets. Paradigm studio, other b&w lines, and psb stratus maybe comparable but they all cost more than the rockets.
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post #204 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 01:46 PM
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Today's lesson is a refresher course for those that slept in class that day...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ce#post1453887
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post #205 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brucer
Today's lesson is a refresher course for those that slept in class that day...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ce#post1453887
Bruce, you never cease to amaze me. If you ever need out of the wood-working industry, you're a shoe-in for the Library of Congress.

Dewey Decimal's got nothin on you.

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post #206 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat
12dB drop from 50Hz to 30Hz, not deep bass response.
5dB fluctuation from 300Hz to 6000Hz, no fidelity.

The platform between 50Hz and 300Hz may first impress people as tight/strong bass. I think many owners like it because of the wide dispersion tweeter. However, I totally agree with John that the sound image tends to be sacrisfied by adopting wide dispersion design.

Anyway, I could imagine the SPL response while listening to it.
Well... Welcome to my world Wildcat...

Your comments above are all very interesting... and personally if one takes the time to read the primer that Brucer linked us to... well... some of that may make some sense to you (or not, as the case may be)...

I do however have difficulty understanding your comments from above... especially if you could imagine "the SPL response while listening to it" after viewing this response curve...

I know many a manufacturer that would jump with glee if their speakers measured like that... but all of *that* being said... the real issue is this...

We never make claims to be the end all be all speakers for every person in every instance... We do however make strong claims that dollar for dollar we are an excellent value (when taken as a whole)... I stand strongly by that claim...

Your opinions are of course valid given that they represent what *YOU* think... A funny side bar is this... Several months ago when we were posting much more here on avs, I took note of one person that kept writing "interesting" notes about Rocket... Strange I thought... but this person kept popping up at moments that seemed odd to me (not to mention the stance he was taking)... I filed it...

I was cruising another speaker company's board one day and I came across a message that looked suspiciously similar in construction and appearance... I studied this persons replies for several days and I e-mailed this industry type and flat out told him what I felt to be the truth... he was "xxx" from avs forum also...

I learned sometime later that I was right... and I had an apology from the owner of this company. I have not seen a post from this person since... under THAT moniker...

In your case this does not appear (at first glance) to be the same issue as your use of the language, industry jargon... and the contained spelling errors etc. seem to indicate that you are not an industry sort... but instead another person here that I've seen posting under another moniker... or perhaps I'm just flat out wrong... ;) I'm an expert at "wrong footed comments"...

In any event... we don't pay people... and in fact... we do not post much (in general) here any more... Our monster thread does not appeared for days (maybe longer by now)... and we generally try to participate only when we feel the need.

Oh well... I'm carefully watching... and my guess is so are you... so we can both enjoy this...

As for me... I'm getting ready to head out from Seoul and get to San Francisco for a few days of meetings and perhaps a moment or two at HE 2003...

Wishing you all the very best...

mls

Founder and President
av123 / Rocket Loudspeakers
Perpetual Technologies
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post #207 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 05:15 PM
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Mark: I do not know where you get your patience! I would love some lessons though from you.
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post #208 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wildcat
12dB drop from 50Hz to 30Hz, not deep bass response.
5dB fluctuation from 300Hz to 6000Hz, no fidelity.
Hahaha!!

If this statement did not identify him as a poseur, this one CLINCHES it!!:

Quote:
Anyway, I could imagine the SPL response while listening to it.
Hahaha!!! LOL!! What a piece of work this guy is!

So far each of his three posts on this thread contain outrageous errata presented as reasonable arguments. Too bad some might fall for it. Fortunately, most who are that gullible already have bought B*se. Maybe you're right, Bigwally! :D :D :D

Hey Mark. Remember. Don't let someone else's disfunctionality affect your quality of life - or your posting habits. Keep up the good work!!

Gordon

Gordon Groff

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post #209 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 06:56 PM
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Just out of curiosity...

To the guys who run Onyx/Rocket, have you ever considered working up a deal with an outlet like BestBuy to sell the Rockets? It would do interesting things for both companies I think.

Anyway, just curious.
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post #210 of 415 Old 06-03-2003, 07:14 PM
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"and I had an apology from the owner of this company"

I could not see the reason why you've got an apology if the person was stating the truth. Anyway, I'm glad that you are with me as for the stance of the Rockets.
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