Rocket Hype - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I just sent in a request on the audioenvy website to audition the Rocket speakers. I can't wait to hear back!

I'm very intrigued by these speakers. I have read numerous reviews and threads on various websites - and it seems like 99% of people that listen to these speakers don't simply like them - they LOVE them. I would assume the great majority of the hype is a result of paying some type of referral fee to current owners to let potential buyers listen to them in their homes. Additionally, I assume that the type of customer that buys equipment over the web is more inclined to participate in forums and hype their decision - compared to the more traditional hifi retail buyer. Finally, I assume that once you have them in your home you would be reluctant to return them if you had to pay a high return freight charge. Taken together - it does not surprise me that the Rocket speakers get so much hype.

Like I said - these are only my assumptions and I can't wait to actually hear these speakers. It surprises me that I have not heard anyone say they don't like the Rockets. Usually as speakers become more popular and accepted by the masses - the more trashing they get by the rest of the "audiophiles."

Yes - I am excited to listen to the Rockets. I Can't wait!

I want a Masquerade.
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post #2 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
I would assume the great majority of the hype is a result of paying some type of referral fee to current owners to let potential buyers listen to them in their homes.
Nope you are 100% wrong with that statement. I talk about the speakers because they represent a great audio value that deserves to be talked about. There is no referral fee for letting people audition my speakers in my home that I know of.....If there is I'll be pissed as I have done numerous auditions in the last couple months.:D

Quote:
Finally, I assume that once you have them in your home you would be reluctant to return them if you had to pay a high return freight charge.
This can only be answered by the individual that is buying them. I know that I bought the Rocket speakers without hearing them knowing that if I didn't like them I would either send them back or sell them locally. I know that if I was unhappy with the speakers there would be no way I would keep them. Rockets are for real and hopefully you will get the opportunity to hear them. You should list were you are from as there are numerous Rocket owners that aren't on the audioenvy list that would be willing to let you audition them. Good luck with your search!
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post #3 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 01:29 PM
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As Hectic mentioned, unlike Tupperware there are no fees, bonuses, commisions, discounts, etc. involved. We just like to show off our stuff and hang out with fellow audio gearheads. There aren't that many of us.
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post #4 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 01:30 PM
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hectic1,

You mentioned that there might be people not on audioenvy that might do auditions. I have submitted 2 audioenvy requests and haven't been able to schedule an audition to hear the Rockets at this time. So I am taking your advice and posting here to see if there are any Rocket owners in the Raleigh/Durham/Cary, NC area that would be willing to show them off. I definitely want to hear these in person before making any decisions so if anyone out there owns these speakers (RS750/RSC200 mostly) let me know through this forum or via email.

Thanks...

Jeff
jthompso99@hotmail.com
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post #5 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 01:39 PM
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isn't Max C in North Carolina?
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post #6 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 01:48 PM
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here's a review where the reviewer didn't like the highs:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...y&pagenumber=3

I have read others, although you need to dig for them.

They are universally noted as being purty though :).
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post #7 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CanO
here's a review where the reviewer didn't like the highs:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...y&pagenumber=3

I have read others, although you need to dig for them.

They are universally noted as being purty though :).
What many prefer in highs are often earbleeders to me, so it definitely helps to listen for yourself. Comparisons are worth exactly the paper they're written on if you're not there to participate.
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post #8 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 02:43 PM
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I think you get a much more neutral speaker w/ the Polk LSi series.

I shared my thoughts a few weeks ago:



<<<Rockets--------

The Rockets are gorgeous and well built. They look much more expensive then they really are (especially compared to the Energys). No complaints in the aesthetics department.

The Rockets, on all material played, threw the smallest soundstage of the three, both front to back, and side to side. Music remained confined w/in the confines of the speaker. For the most part we all felt the soundstage was compressed and 2-D. Switching instantly from speaker to speaker pointed out the differences fairly quickly.

The Rockets are dynamic speakers that can play loudly w/out any major signs of strains. Their character remains intact all the way to reference levels. The Rockets put out some fairly deep and tight bass. They all played loudly and cleanly w/ the Elite receiver where as the Polks shut down the receiver and seemed strained on several occasions. We played several tracks w/ kick drums and the Rockets had the tightest and most "punchy" bass, slightly beating out the Energys and handily beating the Polks (bookshelfs after all). While not being able to play the lowest octaves of the three we all agreed they provided plenty of tight, tuneful bass. If it were not for the extension of the C-9s I would call the Rockets the winners in the bass department.


Midrange. The mids, played on the right material, can be intoxicatingly lush and easy to listen to. However, this tendency towards "lushness" worked against the Rockets on most material. Chris Isaacs "Baja Sessions" CD is just one example of the Rockets midrange gone wrong. His voice was way to thick, boomy, and resonant. For some reason lower mids were accentuated to such a point on all male vocals that always came off sounding boomy or heavy.

As has been stated in the past, the Rocket treble is love it or hate it. I purchased the Rockets hoping to get some speakers that were easy on the ears w/ very little listener fatigue. In this regard the Rockets are easily the best of the three. Though I would not call any of the speakers bright or forward the Rockets were by far the most laid back of the three. Simply put we all felt this was the Rockets Achilles heel. Piano recordings sounded dull, classical guitar lost its edge, Sara M's and Mariah's voice sounded down an octave. These speakers are far from neutral and they suffered in comparison as a result. I initially auditioned the speakers on my own and was anxious to hear other's impressions. Each person said the exact same thing after ABing the speakers "It sounds like the singer has his/her hand over his/her mouth." In comparison to the Polks and Energys detail retrieval was not very good. When using the Rockets for home theater w/out a center I had a hard time hearing dialouge and ambient details.

Overall we were disappoints in the Rockets as we had high hopes for them. I'll get to the Polks and Energys as soon as I get a chance. I really like the Polks, especially considering their price point. If you are considering the Energys I would recommend ABing them w/ similiar loudspeakers. >>>

Brian R. Smith
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post #9 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 02:54 PM
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hype or real deal? well that depends on whose perspective you are looking at things from...

if you listened to Brand X speakers and didn't particularly like their sound, you most likely write them off as hyped up...

if you listened to Brand X speakers and LOVED their sound, you most likely would proclaim that they are the real deal...

now it has generally been agreed that speaker preference is just that - based on preference. what one person likes, another may not.

so are the Rockets hype or the real deal? no one can answer this question for YOU except YOURSELF. will you love the smooth laid back sound? maybe. will you hate the same smooth laid back sound? maybe.

what has also generally been agreed upon is that the Rockets are well crafted and well built speakers. their high quality of their finish, real wood veneers, gloss piano black end caps and WBT type binding posts are unmatched at their price points compared to anything that is readily available.

what does this mean for you as a consumer? well, IF you like the way they sound and look, you'll own the best value in speakers. if you don't like the way they sound, they'll be a well built speaker that doesn't appeal to your senses.

but all this is dependent upon YOU! i hope you have the opportunity to audition the Rockets. to me and my wife, they represent the BEST VALUE in audio and HT speakers right now...who knows what they'll represent to you...happy listening...:)
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post #10 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 03:14 PM
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JATWolf, codemarine lives in Cary and should let you listen (that's where I was able to listen)
There is no hype about the Rockets, they deliver great sound for the money. Are they the BEST value? Not so sure about that, I think there are other brands like NHT and Monitor Audio that also put out great products for the dollar. But the Rockets are the definitely up there as well.
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post #11 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 03:18 PM
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Thanks for the posts here guys. It's actually ironic that this thread popped up today, as Sean and I were discussing this very thing earlier this morning. We had the pleasure of attending a customer service seminar today, something that the company paid us for in an attempt to raise our service standards even higher, and I personally learned a little bit more about just how "exciting" good service can be...something that is exemplified and quantified here and on other internet forums out there in direct relation to AV123 from Mark on down through the ranks.

Specifically, the one fact that stuck in my head is that for every 3 people that are happy with their products, service, etc...and actually take the time to voice their satisfaction, there are typically 11 that voice their concerns about a negative experience. In other words, people are MUCH more likely (about 4 times) to post their negative experience than they are to post their positive experience(s). I have to agree that I am guilty of this as well...when I have a good product that I love and works well, I typically just enjoy the product and talk up the company to my friends and family, but never really take the time to share my satisfaction with the suppliers themselves or others on a public board such as this. HOWEVER, many almost feel an obligation of sorts to post their negative experiences with a product, in an attempt to "save" others out there from making the same mistake...especially when it's possible to do so via the same method they originally learned of that product. I know I'm this way with my GSM cellular service from AT&T...thought I'd slide that one in here as I almost through my phone out the window again today (great phone by the way, but the service is almost comical).

Over and over on this forum, we are accused of almost everything in the book by a select few people...from paying off our customers to post favorable reviews, to giving discounts on products to "happy" customers, to even logging into this forum under false names and posting these "hype" reviews ourselves. On one hand, I can see where this stems from...the Rocket following that has come to be is unlike anything I've ever seen, and I'd probably question it at first glance as well. That is, until I actually thought about it logically (something many seem challenged to do). Take a look at the thread, post, and view count, for example, that exists with Rocket on the entire WWW. Though I'd love to take credit for posting over 15000 messages and reviews, viewing these pages 500,000 times, and starting literally thousands of threads relating to everything from speaker mounts to A/B comparisons, I don't think there'd be much time left in the day to actually do my job here if I actually did so. Take the pictures of these auditions, meets, the write-ups, etc, etc, and the job becomes even more difficult.

The fact is, Rocket owners are extremely proud of and happy with their purchase, and feel part of an almost "exclusive" (for lack of a better word) community that is nothing but enthusiastic, supportive, and generous. I can hardly believe the direction this all has taken. The generosity that our customers have shown us is simply amazing...people are actually opening up their own doors to audition their very own systems for interested enthusiats...I have to say this is a first for me. However, once you talk with these people, interact on the forums, and visit their homes, it's not difficult to see the appeal this presents. All of us are on this board for one reason...the music and movies. I don't think many of us go home at night and stare at the Rocket logo pasted to the back of the speaker for three hours...at least I don't. After a long day, Dark Side of the Moon with a glass of red wine, a dimly lit room, and 85 dB can be exactly what the doctor ordered...and that's what this is all about...the experience.

The "hype" (and I despise this word, as it indicates a sense of dishonesty and deceit) that is on this board is there for a very good reason...because the products speak for themselves and offer something very few can match...performance AND value. In addition, Mit, I completely agree with your last assessment...AV123 customers typically are web-savy individiuals, as this is how the speakers are sold...as such, they are obviously more likely to run across this forum and post their thoughts. However, there's no amount of money in the world that we could pay an unhappy customer from posting their experience here...as the motto of today's seminar states "Hell hath no fury like a customer scorned."

Also, to quickly address the compensation concerns, AV123 has never, and will never pay, or otherwise compensate anybody for their comments about our company. I'm not going to say that I don't enjoy reading this, though as far as an incentive is concerned, there is none besides the satisfaction of gaining a few friends.

Thanks again for the post (sorry that was so long...it's been brewing for a while...since the fourseasons post I read a while back).

Steve Ozmai
OZ Home Theater, LLC
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post #12 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 03:34 PM
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In reality I think there are VERY few people who literally think your company pays for reviews (though I do think Audio Revolution is "Pay for review"), rewards loyal customers w/ cash, or any other deceptive practice.

I think it is just hard for people to believe that "Rockets are the best value for the money ever", coupled w/ the fact you never hear from anyone who does not like them.

Thought I don't like the sound of the Rockets it is readily apparent to me that there are hundreds of satisfied customers. In the end that is all that really matters. AV123 makes a great product and the conspiracy theories are just a natural result of being so successful.

I would not bother spending much time addressing the conspiracy theory individuals as you have stated your position several times. As previously mentioned, I think they are in the extreme minority and some-what intellectually challenged. ;-)

-Brian

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post #13 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bghead8che
In reality I think there are VERY few people who literally think your company pays for reviews (though I do think Audio Revolution is "Pay for review"), rewards loyal customers w/ cash, or any other deceptive practice.

I think it is just hard for people to believe that "Rockets are the best value for the money ever", coupled w/ the fact you never hear from anyone who does not like them.

Thought I don't like the sound of the Rockets it is readily apparent to me that there are hundreds of satisfied customers. In the end that is all that really matters. AV123 makes a great product and the conspiracy theories are just a natural result of being so successful.

I would not bother spending much time addressing the conspiracy theory individuals as you have stated your position several times. As previously mentioned, I think they are in the extreme minority and some-what intellectually challenged. ;-)

-Brian
Hey Brian,

Thanks for the post. I agree with you 100%...I know they're few and far between, but it still boggles my mind that some people actually, and truly, believe that we have the time, endless resources, and ability to pull off such a conspiracy! I know they're the vast minority, I guess I just get tired of seeing these accusations pop into every thread related to Rocket these days.

On the other hand, I really do appreciate people such as yourself that have specifically stated the problems Rocket presents for your ears, in the manner you've done so. All of your posts are not only informative, but also respectful, regardless of your opinions...this is the way to do it!

Are they the "best speaker for the money ever?" Who knows...I guess to determine that, you'd have to have everyone's ears and listen to every speaker on the market. This thread title actually may be part of the problem, though if you go back to the beginning, it was actually derived as part of a "joke" of sorts stemming from the original Diva by Swans thread that began a couple years ago with the same title.

Anyway, thanks for your contributions and perspective here, Brian...it's good to see a different point of view whenever possible.

Steve Ozmai
OZ Home Theater, LLC
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post #14 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bghead8che
...I think it is just hard for people to believe that "Rockets are the best value for the money ever", coupled w/ the fact you never hear from anyone who does not like them....

...I would not bother spending much time addressing the conspiracy theory individuals as you have stated your position several times. As previously mentioned, I think they are in the extreme minority and some-what intellectually challenged. ;-)

-Brian
Never say never...;) after all you did post your opinion on the Rockets...so you got to throw that word "never" right out the window! :D

While Steve has stated his position several times, it is obvious from this thread that some of the newer members joining the forum haven't read the posts of the past which have discussed the very same issues. So it's old news to us who have been following the forum for awhile but fresh reading for others.
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post #15 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
[i]...I think they are in the extreme minority and some-what intellectually challenged. ;-)

-Brian [/b]
First of all, let me profess I have never heard the Rockets, and have not heard many audiophile speakers, because I can't afford them (and I don't want to lose the return shipping charge).

On a purely marketing level, I do question the so many seemingly over-enthusiastic reviews Rockets have received.

And Brian, just to adress your concerns regarding my intellectual capability, I am currently in my 18th year of schooling, and will have another 8 or 9 more years to go before I will be able to finish all the requirements associated with my degree. Which, incidentally, also explains my lack of funding for audiophile speakers for the foreseeable future.
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post #16 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ozmai
...Are they the "best speaker for the money ever?"...
as a VERY satisfied Rocket owner, i will say that the Rockets are NOT the best speaker for the money ever. they are definitely one of the best bang for the buck speaker but certainly not the best speaker for the money. NO WAY!!! NOT IN A THOUSAND YEARS!!!

if I had $2000 to spend on a pair of speakers, I would not buy the Rockets. I would buy a pair of Onix Ref 1s for $1500. :)

if I had $3000 to spend on a pair of speakers, I would not buy the Rockets. I would buy a pair of Onix Ref 2s for $2500. :)

if I had $4000 to spend on a pair of speakers, I would not buy the Rockets. I would buy a pair of Onix Ref 3s for $3500...oh, there are no Refs beyond the Ref 2s. :D got carried away...:o

if I had $5000 to spend on a pair of speakers, I would not buy the Rockets. I would buy a pair of VMPS RM40s (if i had a room big enough to accomodate them)...this would be my choice at least until the Onix Stratas are available :)
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post #17 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 04:59 PM
 
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This herd mentality is somewhat disturbing.
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post #18 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 05:01 PM
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MadDog,

"Never" was the wrong word, "99.9%" would have been better. ;-)

4 Seasons,

<<On a purely marketing level, I do question the so many seemingly over-enthusiastic reviews Rockets have received. >>

I have questioned it also! As anyone would. I just don't see how people jump to the conclusion that AV123 is paying people, posting under various user names, and doing other unethical activities. IN MY OPINION you have to be a little off your rocker to take things THAT far.

As I previously stated, I don't think it should be much of an issue as the vast majority of rocket owners and non-owners don't believe such outrageous claims.

-Brian

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post #19 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fourseasons
...I am currently in my 18th year of schooling, and will have another 8 or 9 more years to go before I will be able to finish all the requirements associated with my degree. Which, incidentally, also explains my lack of funding for audiophile speakers for the foreseeable future.
great! then you should be very familiar with the term "research." :)

can you imagine what kind of a grade you'd receive if you wrote a paper based on a bunch of unfounded assumptions without providing any sort of research or information to support your thesis and point of view?...

information and knowledge is powerful. gaining more info and knowledge is accomplished through thorough research. good luck in school! :)

i do know a thing or two about being a penniless student who loves hifi gear...:D it's not fun. :(
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post #20 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 05:07 PM
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What is the retail on the RM40s?

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post #21 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 05:12 PM
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"....and will have another 8 or 9 more years to go before I will be able to finish all the requirements associated with my degree. Which, incidentally, also explains my lack of funding for audiophile speakers for the foreseeable future."


Here's my "had to walk to school in the snow uphill both ways" story:
When I went back to college I sold a high-end 2ch rig and went to a $65 Sanyo boombox for 4 years. There are a probably a lot of us who can feel your pain.

Don't be disturbed. ;)
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post #22 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 05:23 PM
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Hmmm...


As I have JUST returned from the hospital from gall bladder surgery. Needless to say I have a little extra time on my hands. So I will offer the services of my very modest bedroom system(250s,200,150s) if anyone is in the area and wants to have a listen.


I will have one of the UFW-10 subs when it comes out....so if someone wants to come over to hear that alone......come on over.



I have commented several times on my overwhelming satisfaction with the products and service from Onix and AV123 and do so once again.

Pain pill time.....have a very nice evening. :)
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post #23 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fourseasons
...On a purely marketing level, I do question the so many seemingly over-enthusiastic reviews Rockets have received...
Fourseasons,

i, too, was a skeptic in the past. i did not question the Diva/Rocket phenomenon on a marketing level though...i questioned the quality of the product. i wondered if the product was REALLY as good as everyone claimed...

i found someone who would allow me to audition the Diva 6.1s and heard them with my own ears. guess what? i wasn't impressed. sure, they were nice speakers but they didn't sound spectacular. they represented a very good value but i did not find a need to own them.

so as you might already suspect, naturally i wasn't sold on the Rockets either when they were released...having read that they were a step up from the Divas sparked my interest though because the Divas were good. not wanting to waste good money on shipping if i didn't like the Rockets, i was hoping that i would have the opportunity to audition them locally before making my final determination. fortunately the waitlist on the Rockets was SOOO long at the time that someone in So Cal got them and invited me over to audition them...my wife saw and heard them and the rest is history as they say.

there's nothing wrong with being skeptical. it's a good thing. do a little homework. PM some of the enthusiastic owners. PM some of the other folks who did not like the Rockets. you'd be surprised how members are so willing to share info. call up AV123 and chat with Steve or Sean. heck it's a TOLL FREE number! i think you'll discover in doing some research, what av123 and the Rockets are all about.

i don't think it's a good thing when folks start falsely accusing a company without getting all the facts straight.
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post #24 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bghead8che
What is the retail on the RM40s?
$4,500/pr without the cap upgrade through VMPS direct...dealers generally offer some discount of retail...
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post #25 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 05:53 PM
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Rocket Hype.... I guess a majority of the people who purchased the Rockets(including myself) were very ecstatic and proud of the Great Bang for your Buck! They were exactly what I was looking for, and with the money I saved I was able to purchase additional equipment. I guess you can make the analogy of the Rocket owner as similar to the old Toyota commercial years ago, "Oh what a feeling, Toyota!". Of course there are better speakers out there, but I don't know if the additional amount would be justified, IMHO.

And oh yeah, customer service was always excellent! It's not too often that the owner of a company responds to a customer or even potential customer's e-mail and/or forum post.

Arnold
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post #26 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 06:23 PM
 
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How much is the return shipping charge? Might as well give it a try.
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post #27 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mad Dog

if I had $5000 to spend on a pair of speakers, I would not buy the Rockets. I would buy a pair of VMPS RM40s (if i had a room big enough to accomodate them)...this would be my choice at least until the Onix Stratas are available :)
Or would you buy a pair of magnepan 3.6's? (can i totally hijack this thread?)

And yes i can't wait to see a strata, it is on my short list (the short list with the price tag thats too big, not the short list with the ascends :) ). Although i can't imagine buying a speaker that expensive without hearing it, and shipping for those babies is gonna be scarey...
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post #28 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fourseasons
How much is the return shipping charge? Might as well give it a try.

It depends on what you would be trying. I wouldn't recommend getting a full setup if you are planning on sending them back no matter what. But, I would recommend getting the 200 center with whatever fronts you decide to audition. Mark seems to be keen that the rocket lineup was designed with this center in mind..........I think....I may be wrong:)


I would suggest calling the guys at AV123 and tell them your intentions(to send them back no matter what). Maybe they have a demo or an open box that they could send you without using up one of their limited quantities of NIB speakers. It would also save you quite a bit of break in time. They could tell you how much everything is without problem.
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post #29 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 07:43 PM
 
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Thanks Lantern, I might just give AV123 a call when I get around to it.
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post #30 of 415 Old 04-22-2003, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lantern
...They could tell you how much everything is without problem.
Fourseasons,

Also a BIG PLUS in my book, when you call them up, they won't try to sell you anything...they didn't in my case...

I had to literally beg Sean to take my order...REALLY, no joke.

BTW, where are you located? You may have already mentioned this before and I just missed it...
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