Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Official JBL Synthesis / Pro / Revel Home Theater Thread

In a desire to clean up separate JBL Pro / Consumer / Synthesis / Revel threads that contain a great deal of overlap, I am starting this thread to consolidate the discussion around certain speaker models. Lately there have been so many conversations about such speakers as the JBL M2, the LSR708, the SCL3s and 4s, plus the Revel Concerta2, Performa3 and Ultima2 speaker lines and how they all relate to each other. With all the separate threads it gets really hard to keep all the discussions and Q and A straight. A perfect example is the new JBL Synthesis SCL3 and 4, which are exclusive to Synthesis but share similarities with JBL Pro products like the M2 and LSR7 series (and, in fact, they can be mixed and matched). Another example is the Revel C763L in-ceiling speaker which is often combined with JBL Pro and Synthesis speakers for in-ceiling ATMOS use.

All of these products fall into what might be called "higher end" Harman. For this reason, I often end up cross-posting much of the same information into each separate thread. A duplication of effort for me, and an annoyance to others, yet I want to make sure that those interested are aware of ongoing discussions and comparisons. For example, the other day I posted our listening tests of the JBL M2, LSR708 and Revel F36, and I ended up placing it into three different threads so that everyone interested could read about it. We will be doing much the same with the Revel F208, SCL3 & 4 and the LSR708 sometime in the next week, and instead of plastering it all over the Forum, I am going to post the results here.

So, to be clear, for the most part this is where I will go to answer questions about JBL Synthesis, the JBL M2, LSR7 series, SCL series, and various Revel models that are comparable. I will definitely still check in on the other threads for product specific questions, but will probably refer others back here for comparative or system based discussions.

I hope this new thread helps those who are trying to integrate speakers from these various lines into a cohesive system, and to understand the differences between them!
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post #2 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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A hopefully informative first post in the thread - a clarification of what JBL Synthesis is, as opposed to JBL Pro and standard JBL Consumer:

The best way to think of Synthesis is that it is JBL Pro adapted to the home sized spaces. JBL Synthesis was originally designed for professionals in music and movie industries wanting a "Pro Grade" experience in their homes. Synthesis is sold as complete systems, so that Harman can be sure that any “Synthesis” system is fully calibrated and sounds great. Harman personnel design the systems with knowledge of how the components will work together, and they choose the right components for each installation.

All JBL Synthesis systems are calibrated utilizing Harman's “ARCOS” system, which provides state of-the-art room EQ, as well as Harman's exclusive “Sound Field Management” (SFM) and “Auto Curve Sum” (ACS). The SFM algorithm minimizes seat-to-seat variations at low frequencies, while SFM solves the challenge of achieving an ideal blend between the subwoofers and the main speakers. No other system is capable of providing a seamless transition from subs to main speakers, which is immediately audible.

JBL Synthesis dealers like ourselves also sell very high-end JBL models that were previously only really sold in Japan (such as the Everest and K2), along with the “studio monitors” that have long been sold in the consumer channel.

Much of the transducer technology has roots with JBL Pro, such as the breakthrough “D2” compression transducer and its derivatives, as well as the High Definition Imaging (HDI) horn used in the JBL Professional M2, and the new JBL Synthesis models. JBL Synthesis systems are designed for residential rooms—no matter how large—and are optimized for such rooms which are much smaller than the large theaters for which JBL Professional is famous. Therefore, JBL Synthesis truly represents the best of JBL Professional technologies, fully-optimized for residential spaces.

Many “professional” applications occur in smaller rooms, and JBL Synthesis is often found in such applications. For example, roughly 90% of Blu Ray discs are mastered using JBL Synthesis systems, with Revel C763L in-ceiling speakers used for height channels.

You will need to use all Synthesis products IF you want the system ultimately Synthesis certified, which includes JBL techs coming out to your home and personally calibrating your system. Once this is done, JBL will literally sign off on your system exceeding THX and SMPTE specs for accurate film and music reproduction.

Our own demo system is made up of many Synthesis products (mixed and matched with Revel), but since we don't have the Synthesis SDEC, it is not technically a Synthesis system - yet...
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post #3 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 04:24 PM
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There is already a JBL Pro thread, started by Gooddoc.

The Official JBL Professional Thread

Its already a good thread, it seems like this is a bit of a thread jack. IMO.
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post #4 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 04:42 PM
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I think each thread represents something different. Ie not much overlap
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post #5 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackkrash View Post
There is already a JBL Pro thread, started by Gooddoc.

The Official JBL Professional Thread

Its already a good thread, it seems like this is a bit of a thread jack. IMO.
Actually, no - ran all this by @Gooddoc first - he's on board

Understand your concern, but JBL Synthesis and Revel are not Pro, yet they relate.

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post #6 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 04:54 PM
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No worries, but I suspect this will just end up being one more thread to track, rather than an actual consolidation thread. Such is life I guess.
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post #7 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 05:21 PM
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I don't know how to consolidate these threads, but there is no doubt there is a lot tying them together, which is why John often posts in 3 or 4 threads on some topics.

I think that at a minimum its a good thing to consolidate John's contributions. John has contributed a whole lot to the JBL/Synthesis/Revel knowledge base around here. So if you have a Synthesis/Revel/JBL comment or question, particularly on where these all intersect, then this would be the place to post it or find the answer.

I wish we could have a single owners thread like JTR, but that's possible because the JTR line is very homogenous. The Harman product lines are just too diverse to ever hope for that kind of consolidation.
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post #8 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Gooddoc!

Yeah, I've tried to think of how to most effectively do it, but other than what I've done here, I don't have a better idea. I will still monitor the other threads, but rather than posting my comparative novels in three or four different places, I will just post them here and link to them in the other threads.

BTW, AVS is going to move the M2 thread from "Industry News" to "Speakers." That should help, too, since many people who might be interested in these wouldn't think to look at the news thread.

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post #9 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schuermann View Post
Thanks Gooddoc!


BTW, AVS is going to move the M2 thread from "Industry News" to "Speakers." That should help, too, since many people who might be interested in these wouldn't think to look at the news thread.
Possible they could rename it JBL M2 Owner's Thread since that's why it's become..
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post #10 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post
Possible they could rename it JBL M2 Owner's Thread since that's why it's become..
Hey, you get your side and ceilings done yet? You know I'm waiting until you are all JBL/Harman before I come over . I want to hear your system in all it's glory man.
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post #11 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 06:22 PM
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So, I didn't mean to be a Debbie Downer, but I've been staying up late taking youtube classes on HVAC theory just so I can talk to contractors about what I want for the dedicated space I am building to house some 4722s, and I am a little grumpy.

Carry on.
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post #12 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 06:40 PM
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Hey, you get your side and ceilings done yet? You know I'm waiting until you are all JBL/Harman before I come over . I want to hear your system in all it's glory man.
Ready when you are. Come by anytime. @thrang came to listen recently. Think he was pretty impressed based on his recent announcement.
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post #13 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 07:43 PM
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Ready when you are. Come by anytime. @thrang came to listen recently. Think he was pretty impressed based on his recent announcement.
Didn't suck...

I hope installing 5 M2's isn't overkill, but then again, who cares...!
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post #14 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 08:27 PM
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Funny, I have a pretty good home theater; so why do I wish it was a JBL Synthesis?
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post #15 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 08:39 PM
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Funny, I have a pretty good home theater; so why do I wish it was a JBL Synthesis?
As they say, the grass always looks greener....

But looking out my window I see some of my neighbors grass really IS greener . Oh well, I can't help you...
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post #16 of 415 Old 07-13-2016, 09:57 PM
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Didn't suck...

I hope installing 5 M2's isn't overkill, but then again, who cares...!
Kind of lame, but if 5 M2's is all you can fit, then I guess you'll just have to compromise .
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post #17 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 12:10 AM
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Subscribed, and awaiting John getting the SCL's into the daylight - at least tease us with some unboxing pics John, ahead of your review!!
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post #18 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 01:13 AM
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I've been curious about the "hierarchy" (roughly delineated by MSRP I suppose) of some of the JBL Synthesis floor standing speakers. My interest was piqued after hearing the K2 at the Newport show - really stunning.

Obviously the Everest is the flagship model, followed by the K2. You then have the S3900, S4700 and 4367 models.

Can you illuminate anything on the differences amongst those latter 3 and how they sort price-wise?
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post #19 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 05:31 AM
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Subscribed, and awaiting John getting the SCL's into the daylight - at least tease us with some unboxing pics John, ahead of your review!!
Yes come on John the pressure is on!!

Just get them hooked up in stereo mode to kick them off as that could quite revealing in itself, of course supported by a couple of decent subs for low end duties.

I await in anticipation.....
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post #20 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 08:03 AM
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I think each thread represents something different. Ie not much overlap
It's nice to have multiple threads. One thread may be discussing amplification, another room interactions, another Dr. Toole's work, another comparing two or three speaker models, and yet another with reports on newly purchased items. Only one or two threads could get very boring (personally to me). With multiple threads, a thread may be boing, but a week or so later it may have great insight into a subject, or be very entertaining.

@John Schuermann puts a lot of work into these threads and that is appreciated. John also has a good way of contributing to the discussions so that they can explore both positive and negative aspects of Harmon products and their use.
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post #21 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 08:15 AM
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I am eagerly waiting for the Revel f208 and 708i comparison... I still have not decided to order the Crown/708i combo due to being afraid that the noise of the amp will be too much in my room.I have to have it in the living room.

I am thinking if its better to try the Revels or the JBL 4429 with suitable amp, maybe a bit more from money side but if they offer similiar/better performance than I can live with it.
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post #22 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 09:56 AM
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Would it be okay to transport the M2's (still sealed in their box) on their side for a short 5-6 mile ride, as opposed to me renting a truck to carry them upright?

Thanks
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post #23 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 10:25 AM
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Would it be okay to transport the M2's (still sealed in their box) on their side for a short 5-6 mile ride, as opposed to me renting a truck to carry them upright?
Delivery companies like FedEx / UPS wouldn't think twice about doing MUCH worse with them. I'd be shocked if they aren't packed well enough to survive such a trip and are most likely designed to handle somewhat more rough treatment than most speakers.
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post #24 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 10:35 AM
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^^^
True, but I would rent a truck to be safe.


- Rich

Oppo BDP-105D | Oppo HA-1 | Emotiva XMC-1 | Oppo PM-1 | ATI Signature AT6002 x 2 + AT6006 | Revel Salon2s, Voice2, Studio2s | Velodyne HGS-15
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post #25 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 10:48 AM
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whichever method you chose to transport I would strap the boxes down so they arent bouncing around

Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
Speakers: Focal aria 948, Focal cc800v, Klipsch synergy KSF 10.5 Subs: Velodyne HGS 12, VA 1512, Rythmik FV15HP
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post #26 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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No worries, but I suspect this will just end up being one more thread to track, rather than an actual consolidation thread. Such is life I guess.
This might help - I don't intend on discussing JBL Pro products intended for commercial theaters, auditoriums, or PA applications. IMO, that discussion is better left to the Pro thread you mentioned earlier. My discussion of Pro is going to be limited to the models JBL themselves feel are appropriate for home theater sized spaces, which are the M2 and LSR708 / 705. That's exactly why they ended up as part of the JBL Synthesis lineup, which, as I mentioned above, is essentially Pro adapted for home sized spaces.

My other intention is to bring a bit of a spotlight to JBL Synthesis, as there don't seem to be any other threads that deal with these models. Synthesis speakers use much of the same Pro technologies but with an emphasis on getting good sound in a home theater sized space, (vs. an auditorium or concert venue, where sound propagates differently).
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post #27 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 12:38 PM
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I think a dedicated thread is not a bad idea, but too many threads could be confusing. It does seem like some of the Pro guys have a little animosity towards the more refined products so I can see the need for this thread. The Revel and Synthesis crowd gets somewhat excluded because the high cost of entry scares the majority or folks into a negative attitude so they don't understand or see value very well as the result. While some of the higher end Harman stuff does at times get pricey, I always looked at it from the point of view that generally speaking Harman stuff is a good value compared to the more esoteric options that cost more and perform worse. It's just the high cost is because it's actually pretty good, I feel like the cost is warranted by the refinement and quality rather the opposite point of view where the cost is unwarranted or the performance isn't up to par with the price. I can think of many examples in marketplace where the opposite exists so it's always been ironic to me so many view the high end Harman stuff like that. But I guess it's the interwebs so you get it all too. Revel and Synthesis isn't well represented in the current plethora of JBL threads IMO. The M2 is kind of like a bridge between PRO and synthesis so it's got a place in both conversations.
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post #28 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbitron View Post
Funny, I have a pretty good home theater; so why do I wish it was a JBL Synthesis?
I wish mine was too - on my way there

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Last edited by John Schuermann; 07-14-2016 at 01:23 PM.
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post #29 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
I've been curious about the "hierarchy" (roughly delineated by MSRP I suppose) of some of the JBL Synthesis floor standing speakers. My interest was piqued after hearing the K2 at the Newport show - really stunning.

Obviously the Everest is the flagship model, followed by the K2. You then have the S3900, S4700 and 4367 models.

Can you illuminate anything on the differences amongst those latter 3 and how they sort price-wise?
Here you go:

JBL Everest - List $37,500 each

3-Way Floor Standing Loudspeaker
• Two 15” (38.1 cm) woofers
• 4” (10.2 cm) pure-beryllium diaphragm for crystal-clear highs
• 1” (2.5 cm), pure-beryllium diaphragm for extreme highs
• Self-charged Crossover network; Provides more transparent
and detailed voicing with lower distortion (Class A Operation)
• Frequency Response 29Hz – 60kHz (half space); 45Hz – 60kHz
(anechoic)
• Recommended Amplifier Power: 500 watts
• Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m) 96dB
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms; 5.0 ohms @ 80Hz; 3.0 ohms @
40kHz
• Dimensions (H x W x D): 43.7” x 38” x 18.5”
(110.9 cm x 96.5 cm x 47 cm)
• Weight: 313 lb (142.1 kg) / Shipping Weight:383 lb (173.9 kg)
• Rosewood (RW) Finish with textured carbon fiber baffle.

JBL K2 - List $22,000 each

3-Way Floor Standing Loudspeaker
• 15” (38.1 cm) woofer
• 4” (10.2 cm) Magnesium high-frequency
compression driver with Bi-Radial® horn
• 1” (2.5 cm) Beryllium ultrahigh-frequency
compression driver with Bi-Radial® horn
•Frequency Response 48Hz – 50 kHz
•Low Frequency Extension 33Hz
•Recommended Amplifier Power 500 Watts
•Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m) 93dB
•Nominal Impedance 8 ohms, 7 ohms minimum at 100Hz, 4
ohms minimum at 40 kHz
• Dimensions (H x W x D): 47.3” x 22” x 13.8”
(120.1 cm x 55.9 cm x 35 cm)
• Weight: 182 lb (82.7 kg) /Shipping Weight: 192 lb (87.2 kg)
• Wood grain or black zebra wood (ZW) finish

JBL S4700 - List $7500 each ($750 each more for Black Gloss)

3-Way Floor Standing Loudspeaker
• 380mm (15”) pure pulp cone with treated cloth edge and
Differential Drive® (U.S. patent no. 5,748,760 and other patents
pending) neodymium motor assembly
• 1.8” (4.6 cm) Aqua-Plas-coated titanium diaphragm high
frequency compression driver with Bi-Radial® horn
• 0.75” (1.9 cm) Titanium diaphragm ultrahigh frequency compression
driver with Bi-Radial® horn
•Maximum recommended amplifier power: 300 watts RMS
•Frequency response: 38Hz – 40kHz (–6dB)
•Nominal impedance: 6 ohms
•Sensitivity: 94dB (2.83V/1m
• Dimensions (H x W x D): 42.1” x 19.7” x 14.6”
(106.8 cm x 50.0 cm x 37.1 cm)
• Weight: 120 lb (54.5 kg)
• Cherry wood finish

JBL S3900 - List $5000 each ($500 more each for Black Gloss)

3-Way Floor Standing Loudspeaker
• Two 10” (25 cm) pure-pulp cones with ferrite motor assemblies
• 1.8” (4.6 cm) compression driver with an Aquaplas-treated
pure-titanium diaphragm and neodymium motor assembly on
a SonoGlass® Bi-Radial horn
• .75” (1.9 cm) compression driver with a pure titanium
diaphragm and neodymium motor assembly on a SonoGlass
Bi-Radial horn
• Maximum recommended amplifier power: 250 watts
• Frequency response: 33Hz – 40kHz (–6dB)
• Nominal impedance: 6 ohms
• Sensitivity: 92dB (2.83V/1m)
• Dimensions (H x W x D): 39.4” x 14.6” x 14.5”
(100.1 cm x 37 cm x 36.8 cm)
• Weight: 86 lb (39 kg)
• Cherry wood finish

JBL 4367 - List $7500 each

2-way Floorstanding Loudspeaker
• Low-Frequency Transducer: 15” (380mm) 2216Nd-1 Differential
Drive® woofer
• Mid/High Frequency Transducer: 3” (75mm) D2430K dual
compression
• Maximum Recommended Amplifier Power: 300 watts RMS
• Frequency Response (-6DB): 30 Hz – 40 kHz
• Sensitivity (2.83V@1M): 94dB
• Nominal Impedance: 6 Ohm
• Crossover Frequencies: 700 Hz
• Enclosure Type: Bass-reflex via Dual Front-firing Ports
• Inputs: Dual Gold-plated Five-way Binding Posts
• Dimensions (H X W X D): 37-1/16” x 22-1/16” x 16-3/4”
(941mm x 560mm x 425mm)
• Weight: 135 lb (61.2 kg)
• Finishes: Walnut or Black Walnut Woodgrain Veneer

Hope that helps!

John Schuermann
www.thescreeningroomav.com Home Theater Design john@thescreeningroomav.com
JS Music and Sound Post Production Audio / Original Music for Film and Video
Check out my new movie!: www.stephensonmovie.com
John Schuermann is online now  
post #30 of 415 Old 07-14-2016, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
Would it be okay to transport the M2's (still sealed in their box) on their side for a short 5-6 mile ride, as opposed to me renting a truck to carry them upright?

Thanks
I think you will be fine. The M2s are packaged to be opened while lying on their sides. Since they are also Pro products, they are designed to stand up to the rigors of studio use.

That said, you can never be too careful

John Schuermann
www.thescreeningroomav.com Home Theater Design john@thescreeningroomav.com
JS Music and Sound Post Production Audio / Original Music for Film and Video
Check out my new movie!: www.stephensonmovie.com
John Schuermann is online now  
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