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Budget speakers performing "above their price point" - the new norm?

1K views 32 replies 19 participants last post by  charmerci 
#1 ·
It seems like for every review of budget or value oriented speakers, the review will state, in more or fewer words, that the speakers perform above their price point. And if the speakers are competently designed and also fall into the value category, it's almost a certainty. Heck, this sort of phrasing also creeps up when you reach past the budget/value camp - "it competes with speakers 2-3 times its price" is one I hear often.

My point of contention is that if most of these good budget speakers perform above its price point, then it actually 'doesn't' perform past its price point because many of its competitors have the same level of performance in a similar pricing bracket. The floor has effectively been raised. Does anyone have any examples of budget speakers that have performance that you would expect from its low price?

I think a large part of this is that reviewers are hesitant to give out bad reviews for whatever reason. The new norm should be "these speakers perform well and as its price indicates" and anything in its price range that doesn't measure up should bluntly be labeled a poor performing speaker for the money.

After all, if everything performs "above its price range" then nothing really does. Certainly there are true, outstanding values to be had, but these speakers should define performance for their price range and other speakers that can't meet the new performance standards should be given poor reviews.

What do you think?
 
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#3 ·
bad reviews by professionals probably would mean a loss of a job.
 
#4 ·
What do I think? Other than there are a lot of nice speakers in the market, I don’t think it matters. I’ve heard many budget-type speakers ($600 down to $200 / pair) that perform well, but I wouldn’t (and didn’t) buy them. Same can be said for a few $1500 / pair speakers. What “I” personal feel about a speaker’s value has no meaning to anyone but myself, since it would be different from another person’s sense of value.
 
#10 ·
It depends upon which magazine/site you're looking at. For many places, they won't review a bad speaker. There's a kind of weeding out process to avoid negative reviews so advertisers stay happy. For example, I don't think Stereophile will review Klipsch speakers - unless one model stands out for some reason.
 
#14 ·
No professional reviewer will intentionally throw a speaker under the bus, although I did read one review for a very inexpensive speaker that they gave 1 star to (never seen that before). If they truly don’t like a speaker, they usually won’t review it as you mentioned. Professional reviewers are no different than anyone else, except they audition a lot more speakers. It’s much easier to give a positive review than a negative one. There is always something positive to say, especially when one is careful on the selection of speakers for review.

That being said, does that Z character get paid for his YouTube reviews? Every other speaker is the best speaker he has ever heard, except one. That speaker he threw under the bus ;).

I usually read a review more than once and often several times. Even those speakers that are rated similarly, doesn’t mean the reviewer doesn’t have a preference. One can usually read between the lines of different reviewed speakers to see how much the reviewer truly likes a speaker. Even then, it doesn’t mean people will agree. It’s simply far too subjective of a topic.
 
#11 ·
way back in the day hometheater mag reviewed my klipsch ksf 10.5 5.1 system and also reviewed monitor audio silver system which was at a much higher pricepoint. they both got the same score of 4.5 out of 5 if my memory is accurate. that mag is out of business now I believe.
 
#15 ·
I auditioned the Andrew Jones Pioneers and was reasonable impressed though another speaker sounded better, (I was doing that for a friend...he chose to go with the Pioneers).

Nothing wrong with them, I thought they sounded good for the price.

A few months back on a whim I decided to buy a super cheap, "they gotta suck" pair of bookshelves from Parts Express just for the experience...only $80 for the 3 speakers.

I paired them with the "too cheap to be any good" $90 Yamaha sub for a 3.1 system under $200.

Best bang for the money I've ever heard, to be honest.

Far better than the numerous soundbars I've listened to which, generally, have godawful boomy subs.

I don't hesitate to recommend the Dayton Audio B652's and Dayton Audio C452 center and Yamaha SW012 sub as a result...though in retrospect the $10 more B652 AIR's are said to be even better.

I just wanted to see what "dirt cheap, gotta suck" sounded like and was very surprised.

The Martin Logan LX16's I bought a month before for music sound as good as they should for the $400 I paid for the pair, and obviously better than the Dayton Audios, and if I'd paid MSRP a few years back, ($800), I wouldn't be hugely disappointed.

But the little $200 system definitely is a greater bang for the buck experience given the expectation level I had.

My Usher V602's I paid about $1,200/pair a few years back, for me, are definitely also in the "wow, how can they sound that good for the price" range as well.

The tweeters are actually superior to my ears than the Martin Logan tweeter.

So, bang for the buck: 1=Dayton Audio, 2=Usher, 3=Martin Logan.
 
#16 ·
I auditioned the Andrew Jones Pioneers and was reasonable impressed though another speaker sounded better, (I was doing that for a friend...he chose to go with the Pioneers).

Nothing wrong with them, I thought they sounded good for the price.


I bought a full set of AJ , LCR and used the bookshelves for surrounds. I eventually replaced the center with the AJ ELITE model as I found the vocals lacking, after that was happy again. But the AJ ELITE center cost me as much as the L and R tower non ELITES.
 
#18 ·
Most ID speakers have good value due to low overhead and are putting the crunch on retailers everywhere....we had a store here in the city that was THE place to go (IMO) for audio/video and after 30 years of business, had to shut it down.

Since sound is subjective, our recommendations to other people are based on what WE hear which may not necessarily be what sounds good to others....the daily threads that show up here with the OP looking to buy speakers with a $300-2000 budget is getting somewhat monotonous but I guess if people dont know how to search, they just ask others to do the work for them.

My "value" speakers that I can highly recommend is Fluance, and based on what I paid for my front 3, how they sound, I believe I have a system that performs well "above their price point".
 
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#20 ·
Since sound is subjective, our recommendations to other people are based on what WE hear which may not necessarily be what sounds good to others....the daily threads that show up here with the OP looking to buy speakers with a $300-2000 budget is getting somewhat monotonous but I guess if people dont know how to search, they just ask others to do the work for them.
I kind of agree but it's kind of hard to find too much fault with the recommendations. The feedback is usually really good. There are threads here where someone's narrowed it down to three and the suggestions keep coming and coming. There's always someone saying - go out and listen for yourself!
 
#21 ·
Which, of course, doesn't work because 1.very few places have a variety of speakers set up properly for critical listening and 2.the room plays a tremendous role in the sound of the system.
So, frankly, most of those threads are pretty much useless, though most people would be perfectly happy with any of the recommendations for a good, (relatively) inexpensive set up.
Michael
 
#22 ·
Eat the fish and spit out the bones - also not everybody has so called perfect hearing. And one needs to remember,
that your set-up and the room plays a part.

As in all things audio - hype and following a certain wave can bring delusion.
 
#23 ·
I think that it is difficult to establish a strict correlation between price and performance for almost anything, and not just for speakers. Autos are one of many examples that come to mind. And that is partly because not all costs are entirely performance related. Build quality, appearance, cachet, marketing, are all things that some people pay more for, and even build quality may not relate directly to performance (particularly in audio).

To me, the main value of professional reviews is to help weed out the speakers with characteristics that we are less likely to want. But, as noted in an earlier post, to do that it is necessary to read reviews carefully, and to look for what isn't being said, as much as for what is being said about a speaker. And reading multiple reviews, particularly those with bench tests, is also helpful.

I look at speaker reviews, whether by professional reviewers or by owners, in much the way that I look at movie reviews. By and large, if a movie isn't reasonably well-reviewed ( at least 3 to 3.5 stars on Netflix, for instance) I probably won't waste my time on it, although there are exceptions to that. But then the fact that other people liked a movie, is still no guarantee that I will. So, I would not be likely to waste my time on a speaker that didn't get pretty good reviews, but I also wouldn't be too shocked if it turned out that a particular speaker didn't appeal to my personal audio preferences.

The point that most reviews try to find something nice to say about a speaker is a valid one, in my opinion. But that's okay, as long as we realize that fact in advance.

Regards,
Mike
 
#25 ·
budget speakers performing above their price point, the new norm?
More like: Overpriced speakers performing below their price point, the new norm.

But yes, there are a lot of good budget speakers too. (and Technology/Engineering improvements will only make them better.)

Inflation, greed and good marketing causes... Bose LOL :D

You can sometimes tell just by looking at a speaker that it is garbage, like when the tweeter is far far away from the mids. Take the KEF Muon for example.
It's just bad acoustical engineering. Can you say: comb-filtering? :rolleyes:

No highs, No lows, Must be Blose. ;)
 
#26 ·
Cars usually have a clear return for the extra $$ spent - either in the parts used, performance, or luxury. And its very clear to see what you are getting. e.g. moving up from a family sedan -> luxury sedan -> luxury car -> supercar is a clear progression and improvement in all 3, and price of course.

Its not so in audio at all. You can't even assume you're getting better components (drivers), the only thing you can be really assured of is better looks/finishes the more you pay. Performance is almost completely subjective hence so many decisions are made by reliance on reviews, hence the reviews are bought and paid for.

No other industry has anywhere near the idiocy, fluff, rejection of data, and flat out snake oil and scams as audio. e.g if you told any car manufacturer that they could get by without providing performance figures you'd get laughed out.
 
#27 ·
No other industry has anywhere near the idiocy, fluff, rejection of data, and flat out snake oil and scams as audio.
True, unless you count politics as an industry. :)
 
#30 ·
^^

I feel your pain. I was lucky enough to find some speakers many years ago that I really like, and although I have heard, and tried, other speakers since, I love the ones I have always loved. But it's a complete crap shoot to find something you love. Like yourself, I would have a very tough time auditioning all the potential speakers I might want to try. And without in-home auditions, it might still be very difficult to make really informed choices.

The good news is that we have an almost infinite variety of speakers to choose from, at innumerable price points. The bad news repeats that sentence. :p
 
#31 ·
There have been publications, over the years, that give bad ratings. Stereophile still posts older reviews from the 70's, 80's, 90's on their website that are sometimes fun to read because they are just being honest. Yes, I know, listing anything about Stereophool is risky business here and I have my flame suit on.

But in another example, Car and Driver Magazine, for decades, used to give crappy reviews for cars, and maybe they were biased, but I loved reading that magazine from the late 80's through the 90's.

I enjoy good writing, and I think audio reviewers could and SHOULD post poor reviewed every now and then, if for no other reason, to add credibility to the idea that part of what they do is called journalism. And good reporting means honesty. I'm sure they could pick on any of the systems that they would never sell or advertise.

But the OP's original point is totally true. In 2016, with the technology we have today, everything in average just sounds better than it used to, and prices are dropping, so the new benchmark should be adjusted.
 
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