budget speaker comparison in LA: Aperion, Ascend, Axiom, and Onix Rocket - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Sa-dono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi all! Just decided things would work out better if we moved all the thoughts from the Los Angeles gathering into a new thread. Feel free to move anything else you want over Curtis, but I'm just going to move over your thoughts for now. I will write up my thoughts when I get a chance. So here are Curtis' thoughts from the other thread:

Quote:
Originally posted by cschang
First, I enjoyed meeting everyone there. Mad Dog is a great host. The dimsum was good. And ofcourse, good music. Good people, good food, good music, whatelse could you ask for?

The setup that Mad Dog has at his home is extremely nice….his amps made each speaker sound better than my H/K AVR525 did in my home. Mad Dog was always in the room, so I could not walk out with his amps.

Many of you know that I own Ascends. I wanted to be as unbiased as possible when listening to all of these speakers. Since getting the Aperions and Axioms, I did not listen to the Ascends at all. For two days, all I listened to were Aperions and Axioms. I spent about 5 total hours listening to the Aperions, and about 4 hours with the Axioms…..the Aperions had about 15 hours total of break-in time, and the Axioms about 12 hours.

I will not go into detail about the Ref 1’s and the VMPS 626R’s, I will leave that up to the guys that have more experience those types of speakers…and money. These speakers cost 4 to 5 times more than the budget speakers we had there. While I know for a fact there are other speakers that cost just as much and can be compared evenly with the budget speakers, these two speakers definitely outclassed the other four pairs. I was very impressed. Are they worth more that much more money than the budget speakers? That all depends are your ears, what is important to you, and your pocketbook. Remember, my whole 5.1 speaker setup cost less than what a pair of Ref 1’s and VMPS 626R’s cost. If I had a dedicated room for two channel music, and the funds, these speakers would be on my list to consider.

All four of these budget speakers would benefit from the use of a subwoofer, but the purpose of this session, it was best to let them stand on their own merit. They all seemed to be built well. If you gave me a set of any of these speakers, I would not throw them out.

Aperion Audio 522D – I expected a lot from this speaker after reading the Cnet.com review, unfortunately, I did not hear what they heard. This speaker was the smallest of the bunch, and it sounded like it. It sounded “thin†on all counts. Mad Dog’s setup helped these speakers more than the others, which may have been the because these are less efficient that the others. In my home, it did sound better when turned up, but still compressed. It is not a bad speaker, I just think the others offer more. The the medium cherry finish looked good.

Axiom Audio M22Ti – This speaker sounds pretty good to me and I think it would appeal to a lot of people. Detailed with good clean midrange and highs. It does sound bright to me, and a bit metallic, and those characteristics showed themselves a lot with the Norah Jones CD we were using, but when playing classical music, they seemed to sound much better. Good imaging and soundstage. In my home, when turned up, the metallic characteristics seem much more prominent. I didn’t like the finish that was sent to us, but there are other finishes on their website that look nice. More efficient than the Aperions. If you like the bright sound, you should definitely try to give these speakers a listen before you buy.

Rocket RS150 – I wanted to hear these the most, and I am most grateful for Mark sending them to Mad Dog for this session. These are “laid†back, no part of the sound jumps at you. I felt like I wanted more from the speaker, it was almost as if something was covering it or holding it back. Imaging and soundstage seemed to be there, but I was distracted by whatever I felt it was lacking. One thing that Mad Dog demonstrated with this type of sound was it could be turned up loud, and it would not grate on your nerves. They definitely look good. Simply put, the speaker just didn’t satisfy my tastes.

Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 – These are my speakers and I have had them for about two months. Before we got started in all the listening, the one thing that I feared was hearing one of the others “budget†speakers and wishing I had it as opposed to the Ascends. I did my best to make sure that I was honest with myself in forming an opinion about these speakers. After hearing the other three â€budget†speakers, and the higher end stuff , I am even more satisfied with my purchase. Clean, open, detailed, good soundstage and imaging. They are brighter than the Rockets, but not as bright as the Axioms. Other than not having the bass, for the money, I think they compared well with the Ref 1’s. Although the efficiency specs are lower than the Axioms, in our listening, they seemed more efficient. Certainly the black finish is not as refined as the others. The Aperions and Axioms may be able to match certain decors better, but the Ascends may be the most flexible. At the risk of sounding biased, if you are in the market for speakers at twice the cost or more, you need to listen to these.

We didn’t spend as much time listening to the center channels. From what we heard, they all sounded pretty comparable. The CMT-340 had a little more bass than the RSC-100, and the RSC-200 had more bass than the CMT-340. The CMT-340 seemed to have more detail to me. Safe to say if you get Rockets, get a Rocket center….if you get Ascends, get the Ascend center.

It is clear that these speakers all have their own characteristics. It is also clear that people have different preferences. If you can not go out and listen to these speakers before you buy, read as much as you can, and know what sound you like.

If you have any specific questions….feel free to ask!

curtis
Sa-dono is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Sa-dono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here is a list of Mad Dog's gear, for everyone interested:

Source: Rotel RDD-980 CD Transport
DAC: Perpetual Tech P-3/A (Modwright Level 1) & P-1/A
Preamp: Adcom GFP-565 (used in bypass mode)
Amplifier: Aragon Palladium II monoblocks (400wpc @ 8ohms)
Speaker cable: Onix SP-200
Interconnects: Onix Blue, ZuCable Disco, Onix Thunder Digital Coax
Subwoofer: alpha Rocket UFW-10 sub
Sa-dono is offline  
post #3 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 11:50 AM
Member
 
perfektrtw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Good idea Sa-dono! I can't wait to hear everyone else's impressions! :)
perfektrtw is offline  
post #4 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 12:14 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Good idea Sa-dono....now I have to figure out the best way to move stuff over.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #5 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 12:23 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 77
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by petiteface
Curtis:

What about the CMT-340 L&R? How do they compare to the CBM-170?

I am really interested in knowing.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



They didn't sound right...perhaps due to absolutely no break-in time. All the parts are there....but it didn't jell. I will ask Ascend about it.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by petiteface
Curtis:
I am also a little surprised at the CMT-340c sounding a little more detailed compared to the RSC-200. I would have imagined that the 3-way design with the midrange would have made the vocals absolutely top-notch in the RSC-200. In any case I am ordering the RSC-200 myself and will make my comparisons with the CMT-340.
sound the most.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think that is just the Rocket sound. It was that way with the RS150's and RS750's...I don't think I heard the RS550's as mains.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by petiteface

One more thing I have noticed is that once one gets used to a certain sound of a speaker, any differences from this speaker start seeming like the new speakers are lacking in one thing or the other. For example when I compare any speaker with my own Boston Acoustics, my BAs kinda become my reference and everything else that differs from this sound becomes something I dont like about the speaker.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Agreed....which is why I didn't listen to my 170's for two days, and exclusively to the Aperions and Axioms. I listeed to them for about 10 hours collectively. Trying to clear my pallette so to speak. And to be honest, I can not tell you if it worked.


petiteface One more thing.

When I auditioned the Aperions, I thought they sounded more detailed (some may call this bright and thin) compared to the Ascends. I also felt they would be better suited for HT compared to the Ascends, but fall behind the Ascends if Music is the goal.


petiteface Curtis:

What about the CMT-340 L&R? How do they compare to the CBM-170?

I am really interested in knowing.

I am also a little surprised at the CMT-340c sounding a little more detailed compared to the RSC-200. I would have imagined that the 3-way design with the midrange would have made the vocals absolutely top-notch in the RSC-200. In any case I am ordering the RSC-200 myself and will make my comparisons with the CMT-340.

One more thing I have noticed is that once one gets used to a certain sound of a speaker, any differences from this speaker start seeming like the new speakers are lacking in one thing or the other. For example when I compare any speaker with my own Boston Acoustics, my BAs kinda become my reference and everything else that differs from this sound becomes something I dont like about the speaker.

Personally I liked the CBM-170s because they match the Boston Acoustics sound the most.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by perfektrtw
Thanks a bunch Curtis for your review. I am in the market for one of those bookshelves myself. However, I have vastly different tastes in music. I listen to just about anything, including classical, but I mostly listen to metal/rock/electronic. In your opinion, which of the speakers you listened to would best be suited for that type of music?

Thanks in advance!


In my opinion, on the budget side, the Ascends, on the high end side, the Ref 1's.

I really liked the Ref 1's. Heck...I liked the 626R's too!

But for MY money, the Ascends can not be beat.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #6 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 12:28 PM
Senior Member
 
petiteface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Reposted on this thread.

Mad Dog:

Your impressions of the Ascend CBM-170 compared to the Ref1s.
petiteface is offline  
post #7 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 12:36 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 77
petiteface,

For what it is worth coming from an CBM-170 owner, I really liked the Ref1's. The bass out of those little boxes is remarkable. Only a couple of pieces of music were played on both speakers. The guitar solo from Stereophile Test CD3 is my point of reference, other than not being able to go as low as the Ref1, I think the CBM-170 matched up very well.

I am also interested in reading what Mad Dog, Sa-dono, and bioforce thought of everything. But I also have to remember, all of those guys have some pretty highend stuff at home.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #8 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 12:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cajieboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Space Coast, Florida
Posts: 4,420
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 51
The Ref1's are right at the top of my speaker wish list, and it was interesting to read how well they faired in the session.
cajieboy is offline  
post #9 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 12:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mad Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
cschang,

you MISSED out on hearing the VMPS 626Rs and Ref 1s partnered up w/ shokunin's toys!!! man, was that EAR OPENING! if you thought the Refs and 626s sounded good already, the few goodies that shokunin brought over made both speakers sound SO incredible! in fact, i didn't realize that the Ref 1s could be made to sound any better than i was already familiar with...you had to hear it to believe it! :)
Mad Dog is offline  
post #10 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cajieboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Space Coast, Florida
Posts: 4,420
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Mad Dog, can we get some details? Especially like to read more about the Ref 1's. Thanks.
cajieboy is offline  
post #11 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:04 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally posted by Mad Dog
cschang,

you MISSED out on hearing the VMPS 626Rs and Ref 1s partnered up w/ shokunin's toys!!! man, was that EAR OPENING! if you thought the Refs and 626s sounded good already, the few goodies that shokunin brought over made both speakers sound SO incredible! in fact, i didn't realize that the Ref 1s could be made to sound any better than i was already familiar with...you had to hear it to believe it! :)
I bet they would have helped all the speakers...just like your gear compared to my HK 525.

Mad Dog...you already have nice stuff...why do you want to tease me more? :) Good thing I got out of there when I did.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #12 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Sa-dono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well I guess I'll post a mini-preview before going into details. For the money, I feel the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 and Onix Rocket 150 provide the most bang for the buck. While the Aperion's and Axiom's were decent, they were outclassed IMO, considering all of the speakers are around the same price. For my money, I would personally go with the Rocket 150's, but you could not go wrong with the Ascend 170's too for the money. I will just be posting ratings (1-highest, 4-lowest) within a couple categories, and providing further details later.

Sound quality:
1) Onix Rocket 150
2) Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 (Again, it is going to be up to personal preference IMO as to which will be 1 or 2 here, but I felt the overall balance and bass was better with the 150's. I will provide more detail later. Everyone is free to love the Axiom's and Aperion's also, as everyone has personal tastes, and one of these speakers may be more to the liking. However, I believe the majority (or maybe even all) of the gathering came away feeling the Rocket's and Ascend's were in a different class for sound quality, given they are all in the same price range.)
3) Axiom Audio M22Ti
4) Aperion Audio 522D

Looks and finish:
1) Onix Rocket 150 (While the finish on the Rockets is the nicest, I do understand that the rosewood will not match everyone's decor.)
2) Aperion Audio 522D
3) Ascend Acoustics CBM-170
4) Axiom Audio M22Ti (The Axiom's finished last due to the "special" finish that they provided us with..which was an extremely light maple..with what must be the most horrendous grills ever IMO. With the right finish, I might place them above the Ascends.)

Construction and knuckle test:
1) Onix Rocket 150
2) Ascend Acoustics CBM-170
3) Axiom Audio M22Ti
4) Aperion Audio 522D

Please note that these are just my personal thoughts, that speakers are highly subjective, that you should listen and find what you like, and that I will be providing further thoughts in detail later.
Sa-dono is offline  
post #13 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Sa-dono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by cschang

Mad Dog...you already have nice stuff...why do you want to tease me more? :) Good thing I got out of there when I did.
Because there is always a new upgrade...as even MD found out yesterday..and partially received :D
Sa-dono is offline  
post #14 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:13 PM
Senior Member
 
CanO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
yeah i'm interested to hear how the 626 vs ref1 showdown went ;). More good news on the CBM's so far. can't wait to get mine (been waiting over 3 weeks now!)
CanO is offline  
post #15 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:21 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Geez...I don't think Aperion or Axiom are ever going to loan me speakers again!!

For the most part I agree with Sa-dono's findings...except I like the sound of the Ascends more. I will also give the Axioms more credit (especially with classical music), and maybe give them more preference over Rockets. Aperions clearly outclassed in my ears.

It is too bad I do not have the Rockets for two weeks like I do the Axioms and Aperions, then I could really compare.

And like Sa-dono said.....speakers are highly subjective. I think we all agree, we will take Mad Dog's amps, and that power cord of shokunin's!

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #16 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:36 PM
Senior Member
 
petiteface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Sa-Dono:

Your construction and knuckle test rating doesnt make any sense at all.

The Aperion 522D is made from 1" thick HDF. Solidly constructed with excellent fit and finish. I would definitely place it above the Ascends (the one I am familiar with). In fact I would have thought that it would end up higher than the ROckets.

Not sure I agree with your assessment.
petiteface is offline  
post #17 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mad Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by cajieboy
Mad Dog, can we get some details? Especially like to read more about the Ref 1's. Thanks.
Details are coming...as is the budget speaker writeup...believe it or not, these things take a lot of effort to coordinate and then almost as much time to write up...your patience is appreciated. :)
Mad Dog is offline  
post #18 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:52 PM
Senior Member
 
petiteface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
One more question.

Were these speakers tested with the sub or without the sub?
petiteface is offline  
post #19 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 01:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mad Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by petiteface
One more question.

Were these speakers tested with the sub or without the sub?
please refer back to cschang's write up at the top of the page...your question is answered there...
Mad Dog is offline  
post #20 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
Sa-dono's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 728
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by petiteface
Sa-Dono:

Your construction and knuckle test rating doesnt make any sense at all.

The Aperion 522D is made from 1" thick HDF. Solidly constructed with excellent fit and finish. I would definitely place it above the Ascends (the one I am familiar with). In fact I would have thought that it would end up higher than the ROckets.

Not sure I agree with your assessment.
The Aperion's are on the lighter side for their size. Also, on the knuckle test, they gave off a very high-pitched, hollow sound. It is possible that Aperion could have given us a bad sample, but I would highly doubt it. Agree or disagree, I do not really care. Get all these speakers for yourself and try it out. Then you will know for yourself, and can tell me I'm wrong if you still feel so :)
Sa-dono is offline  
post #21 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 02:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cajieboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Space Coast, Florida
Posts: 4,420
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Thanks Mad Dog, can't wait!
cajieboy is offline  
post #22 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 03:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mad Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by cschang
...We didn’t spend as much time listening to the center channels. From what we heard, they all sounded pretty comparable. The CMT-340 had a little more bass than the RSC-100, and the RSC-200 had more bass than the CMT-340. The CMT-340 seemed to have more detail to me...
We were able to compare the RSC100 and CMT-340C briefly w/ one stacked on the other on my sub aimed directly at the listening area to give us a pretty good idea of each center's general characteristics.

*Note - This is something that I don't feel cschang did not explain clearly...We listened to Bigfoot casually as panofka wanted to hear it but did NOT do any direct A/B comparisons between this and the new CMT-340 or RSC-100. Any comparisons between the other 2 centers and Bigfoot absolutely need to be taken with a BIG boulder of salt since Bigfoot was placed in a different location than the other 2 that is not ideal (with the tweeter about 2 feet below ear level) given restrictions in placement at my place. Cschang is right on that Bigfoot produces more bass and drops lower than the other two. Since bass is non directional this is easy to determine but since high frequencies are directional, placement of the tweeter 2 feet below ear level will have a dramatic effect in the amount of high frequency detail one hears. Also since panofka was the only person interested in Bigfoot, he was the only individual anywhere close to the ideal sweet spot…everyone else was well off axis. Just wanted to explain this so folks who weren't there will have a better understanding.

cschang, if you feel i'm off base on the above comments, please feel free to say so.
Mad Dog is offline  
post #23 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 03:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom_Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Old Forest
Posts: 3,735
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally posted by Mad Dog
you MISSED out on hearing the VMPS 626Rs and Ref 1s partnered up w/ shokunin's toys!!!
What kind of "toys?"

He didn't bring over magical devices to sit on top of speakers did he?

Or are you talking differents amps or preamps? Or different cables or stands or isolation devices?

Tom B.
Tom_Bombadil is offline  
post #24 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 04:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JohnR_IN_LA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Washington DC Area
Posts: 7,490
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Can you go into a little detail about "shokunin' toys"? At your convienence, im not being impatient, i know everyone is probably recovering from MadDogs cooking :D

(joke MD!)

Hopefully this isn't one of those shootouts where the one crowd is incapable of leveling a criticism against "their"speakers, and the another crowd can't criticize their speakers? And as a result the 3 other brands get mooshed? :)

And did you guys crank them up? Sometimes the bright speakers sound good at lower levels, but get a little grating at high levels, while the flater speakerstend to shine at higher volumes, where their flatness becomes a huge bonus...
JohnR_IN_LA is offline  
post #25 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 04:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mad Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,461
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
What kind of "toys?"

He didn't bring over magical devices to sit on top of speakers did he?

Or are you talking differents amps or preamps? Or different cables or stands or isolation devices?

Tom B.
bottlehead foreplay preamp...:) WOW!!! when paired w/ my Aragons to drive either the VMPS 626Rs or Ref 1s!!!:)

sony sacd player...WOW!!! on Diana Krall SACD disc...:)

sorry, no, magical devices...:)

since we were short on time, we did the swap on the preamp and sacd at the same time so i'm not sure what effect each component had in my system...but i do know i was constantly picking up my jaw from the carpet as i didn't know that the Ref1s could sound so much more incredible. the detail was simply breathtaking! on both the Ref1s and VMPS 626s....WOW!!!
Mad Dog is offline  
post #26 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 04:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tom_Bombadil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Old Forest
Posts: 3,735
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Those are nice toys.

A tube preamp can impart a seductive sound. And some SACDs provide startling clarity. I have a couple of tube preamps and a Sony SACD player.

Tom B.
Tom_Bombadil is offline  
post #27 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 04:25 PM
Senior Member
 
petiteface's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Isnt dispersion one of the qualities one looks for in a center. If so, I think being off-axis should not be a big issue in comparing the centers.
petiteface is offline  
post #28 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 04:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Completely agreed. Mad Dog's placement of Bigfoot should be taken into consderation. And we let panofka sit in the sweet spot since he was the one going to spend money.


Quote:
Originally posted by Mad Dog
We were able to compare the RSC100 and CMT-340C briefly w/ one stacked on the other on my sub aimed directly at the listening area to give us a pretty good idea of each center's general characteristics.

So basicly, we need to have another session at Mad Dog's!

*Note - This is something that I don't feel cschang did not explain clearly...We listened to Bigfoot casually as panofka wanted to hear it but did NOT do any direct A/B comparisons between this and the new CMT-340 or RSC-100. Any comparisons between the other 2 centers and Bigfoot absolutely need to be taken with a BIG boulder of salt since Bigfoot was placed in a different location than the other 2 that is not ideal (with the tweeter about 2 feet below ear level) given restrictions in placement at my place. Cschang is right on that Bigfoot produces more bass and drops lower than the other two. Since bass is non directional this is easy to determine but since high frequencies are directional, placement of the tweeter 2 feet below ear level will have a dramatic effect in the amount of high frequency detail one hears. Also since panofka was the only person interested in Bigfoot, he was the only individual anywhere close to the ideal sweet spot…everyone else was well off axis. Just wanted to explain this so folks who weren't there will have a better understanding.

cschang, if you feel i'm off base on the above comments, please feel free to say so.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #29 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 04:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,769
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 77
Quote:
Originally posted by petiteface
Isnt dispersion one of the qualities one looks for in a center. If so, I think being off-axis should not be a big issue in comparing the centers.
True, but we were all over the place when listening to the centers, the centers were not all in the same place, and I was not really doing an "critical" listening.....only panufka.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #30 of 106 Old 05-26-2003, 04:34 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
shokunin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 754
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom_Bombadil
What kind of "toys?"

He didn't bring over magical devices to sit on top of speakers did he?

Or are you talking differents amps or preamps? Or different cables or stands or isolation devices?

Tom B.
Here are the toys I brought over to Mad Dog's

Sony XA777ES SACD Player
Shunyata Hydra Power Conditioner (some may consider this a magical device)
Shunyata Python for Hydra
Bottlehead Foreplay Tubed Preamp (w/ Telefunken ecc802s 12AU7's)
Bolder Bybee Silver Bullet Cryo'd Nitro cable

I think Mad Dog was quite happy with his system and pretty much "done" upgrading until I brought over the toys to play with. :D
shokunin is offline  
Closed Thread Speakers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off