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HTD Level Two or Wavecrest VHL-1 for LCR of a 5.1

2K views 31 replies 10 participants last post by  gajCA 
#1 · (Edited)
Replacing my Energy Take 5.1 and need the front three of a 5.1. Sub is an SVS SB12-NSD surrounds will be HSU satellites for now

I had another thread that started with Polk T15s vs wavecrest but after all then advice and more research thought I should start a new one with my new contenders for the LCR of a 5.1 system.

1. Wavecrest VHL-1 X3 ( front ported) $322.50 (15% discount) pay shipping to return
2. HTD Level Two Bookshelves and Center (front ported) $375.84 (10% discount) with free return

I looked but could not find a comparison of these speakers, though both seem to have good ratings as budgets

Also considering Ascend HTM-200 SE X3 (sealed) $428.00 pay shipping to return For these I can also save $60 off the next two for surrounds with a package deal.

Could go another hundred or two for the right set, but may upgrade again in a year or so after I move so not looking for major investment.

Ruled out NHT due to shine as these will closely border a projection screen, need a more matte surface, Also prefer a simple clean look, though on looks would probably pick the rounded edges of the HTD box. Sound is more important obviously but with just them on stands and the screen for that wall they will be highly visible in the room.

Forum Recommended Info
1) Your budget.
[My Answer] Up to $500 for speakers or maybe a little more if justified. Don’t want to over invest in case they do not suite where I move to in a year or so. I already have all other equipment, just replacing speakers

2) Your listening interests: movies/gaming/music--and whether or not any of those are your primary concern.
[My Answerer] - Movies, TV, and Music of multiple genre (Big band, Latin, Rock, Jazz, etc). Looking for a full clean sound across the audible range at low and moderate volumes. It is in an apartment with downstairs neighbors and I often get home late, so will not be listening loud and do not want to shake the house.

3) Your existing audio equipment (make/models) if any. Include comments about what you hope to improve upon.
[My Answerer] - Take energy 5.1, Denon avr-s910w, Sony VPL-HW45ES Projector, Auralex Subwoofer platform, Sanus Natural Foundations Stands (30”X4 + 18”X1)

4) The size of your room. Please also mention if there are adjacent open areas and how big they are (important for subwoofer choice).
[My Answerer] - ~12’x11’ with 10’ ceilings, and an added 4’Dx7’W nook on one of the 12’ sides. Electronics will be set up in the nook and projector will hit the opposite solid flat 12’ wall. Looking at the projection screen (i.e. front wall), the left wall ends 5’ before the screen wall. The gap will be filled with a floor to ceiling sound and light blocking curtain. Baseboard heating runs along the opposite 11’ wall, and around the back wall and nook. Tried to draw basic layout in attached file, speakers are blue.

5) Any placement restrictions.
[My Answerer] - I cannot attach anything to walls or ceiling, so stands and towers only. Projection will be on 12’ wall. Subwoofer can likely only go behind the couch in the nook, on the right of the couch. Expect fronts to go on sides of projection screen, in the corners. Expect the surrounds to go in back corners next to and just slightly behind the couch.

6) Any aesthetic or size concerns.
[My Answerer] - Would like to maximize remaining floor space. E.g. not have speakers placed far from the walls or with a very large footprint. Also projection screen is ideally most of wall, so fronts should be narrow and fairly tight to wall not to obstruct.

7) Any equipment you are already considering (or would not consider).
[My Answer] As stated above -
Wavecrest VHL-1 X3 or HTD Level Two Bookshelves and Center

Also considering Ascend HTM-200 SE X3 (sealed) $428.00 pay shipping to return For these I can also save $60 off the next two for surrounds with a package deal.

Ruled out NHT due to shine as these will closely border a projection screen, need a more matte surface, Also prefer a simple clean look, though on looks would probably pick the rounded edges of the HTD box. Sound is more important obviously but with just them on stands and the screen for that wall they will be highly visible in the room.

8) Any particular audio sonic signatures you know you prefer (e.g., you are a basshead, you have a preference for bright treble, etc.)
[My Answer] - Need to avoid wall shaking sub sonic bass, but want a full balanced sound at moderate volumes. I usually find the mids lacking in home theater, shrill highs make me cringe, and my energy speakers just sound too far away. After hooking up two of the Polk T15s they sound decent and more immersive, but hoping to do better for a bit more cash.

Any help with final decision would be appreciated.
 

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#2 ·
I've reviewed both the HTD and WaveCrest speakers you're looking at, so perhaps I can throw in my two cents...

Given what you're trying to achieve I would suggest you take a long look at the HVL-1 speakers. The Level TWO are no slouch - and I would certainly not hesitate to recommend them to anyone - but based upon how I interpret your post it sounds as though the WaveCrest might prove more favorable. Speaking of your post....

That was a very well thought out and articulated one. If everybody supplied as much detail and information as you it would be a whole lot easier to help them.

 
#4 ·
Geoff, Thank you for the reply. I ruled out the HSU due to back ports and that these will be about an inch from the wall and in corners. I understand back ports might still be ok, but decided to stick with front ports or sealed since there still seemed to be plenty of options. The HSU satellites are very old and meant to be temporary, so no reason to try to match to them.

Jim, Thank you. I just read both your detailed reviews which were very helpful in confirming my top two choices, but I could not decipher the advantage of the Wavecrest for me.

Can you elaborate on what aspect of wavecrest lends itself better to my needs?

The price, dimensions, frequency range and performance specs seem very close. It sounds like both handle dialog very well which is something I am looking for, but could I not infer for sure which was better (though maybe Wavecrest?). Your comments on low volume performance of the HTD caught my attention as I like to have low background music on a lot of the time and never play vert loud. On looks and feel would probably go with paint and rounded corners of the HTD with hopes the mid gloss is a match for my Sanus Natural Foundation (black painted wood composite) stands. a little shine next to the screen would be OK I think just not the full reflection of piano black. Also had considered the possibility of buying level two towers in the future and pushing the bookshelves to the rear.

Since you are familiar with both sets - If you think the HTD have more shine than I expect, or the finish of the Wavecrest is nicer, or sound stage is better, or dialog clearer.... Also I recognize your review of the HTD included the tower fronts (which again I am considering) and that the bookshelf fronts may not perform as well.

BTW I am very glad I gave the right detail in the thread starter. As a new member I tied to follow the provided suggestions for posting as best I could, but was not sure if it was too much or not enough. If I am coming here asking for advice I want to give the right context to anyone generous enough to help me. The choices out there are overwhelming, and it is so nice to have a place to ask targeted questions like this.

Appreciated,
Mark
 
#5 ·
Based upon what you wrote, the WaveCrest seemed more in line with your needs. Now that you've added something about appearance it may tip the scales toward HTD (under aesthetics you didn't mention any restriction on how a speaker looked, only limitations on size, so I never factored that in). The WaveCrest has more of a traditional inexpensive speaker look, meaning vinyl wrap with squared off corners. The HTD softens things up a bit, and is covered in a matte black paint, so in that regard it probably has the higher WAF.

The HTD system I reviewed did indeed have towers, so you can reasonably expect the bookshelf speakers to be a step down with regards to output and capability. The sound signature will be quite similar though, given they use the same drivers. WaveCrest doesn't offer towers so if you want to go that route - now or in the future - then HTD would be the only choice.
 
#6 ·
I would go for the Ascend HTM-200SE. Reason being is they use the same tweeter as the Ascend CBM-170SE, which is a better speaker than the Wavecrest. The Wavecrests are still very, very good speakers and have very nice mids but the 170SE is a step up, which the HTM-200SE should also be a step up. The Wavecrests will probably have a bit more bass due to being ported but if you're planning to use a subwoofer and cross-over at 80Hz or 90Hz then that doesn't matter. But of course the HTM-200SE will cost more although they will provide a better overall sound.

You can't go wrong with either the Ascends or Wavecrests. I would choose either of those over HTD.
 
#7 ·
Jim - Understood and sorry for the confusion. I wasn't really thinking of appearance as a restriction but more of "all else being equal", but I guess the pictures of the level twos did start growing on me. Sound definitely comes first though and it is not that I think the Wavecrests look bad or unsuitable. Regarding the towers, I really hadn't considered those until I read your review and started thinking again. Front ported and almost identical base size as my stands, I would not lose any front floor space. Also with those I could likely turn off my sub late nights and still have a decent sound, but wouldn't buy right away and not sure I want something as big as the bookshelves for rears either.

Ultra_Sound - I am reading other reviews that seem to agree that the Ascends might be a better HT speaker, with a sub, for a little more cash. They are also small enough to work as rears so could do all 5 I think.

I might just order the no risk HTD center and bookshelves, and if not immediately impressed/satisfied then order the wavecrest and/or Ascends for comparison. Probably worth some return shipping to get the right set. Of course I am not sure I will be able to tell the subtle differences, and suppose I might even prefer a technically inferior speaker.

Thank you,
Mark
 
#8 ·
Of course I am not sure I will be able to tell the subtle differences, and suppose I might even prefer a technically inferior speaker.
And that would be fine. Nothing the graphs, charts or measurements show really matters if your ears don't like what they hear. In the end the only important thing is that the speakers work for you, everything else is immaterial if you aren't happy with them.
 
#10 ·
Thank you RayGuy, another vote for Wavecrest.

Will likely try both Wavecrest and HTD, since it seems a good but not certain chance I will be keeping the Wavecrests.

Any strong reason I should try the ascends? The higher cutoff frequency should not technically matter much with a sub, but they would put more dependence on the sub. In my situation would like the option of dialing down the sub late nights. But, I would trade that benefit for an otherwise superior sound.

I also have a lingering question on the sealed (Ascends) working better in corners than the front ports (other two)
 
#11 ·
Putting any speaker in a corner is usually a bad idea. Most like to "breathe" with a bit of space around them. The worst situation is a "cubby hole" for the audio/video equipment. An idea thought up by a designer with no interest in good sound. If that is your situation, at least place the speakers such that the front of the speaker slightly protrudes from the side wall.
 
#12 ·
If you are still uncertain you can just order the HTDs and try them out. If you don't like them I believe HTD allows free shipping return for first time customer.

Or order HTDs and Wavecrests/Ascends and compare them side and side, and send the inferior ones back.

Sealed speakers have the most flexible placements.
 
#13 ·
No cubby holes. They will be on stands to the sides of a projection screen that may take most of the wall, so they will be very close to a side wall on the right and a curtain closure on the left. While I could use a smaller screen if needed, I am trying to maximize as reasonable.

Either way I will get the HTD due to the free return policy. I will also most likely get the Wavecrest due to the advice on this thread, even though the $42 shipping seems excessive. I am still considering the Ascends due to what I have heard about the tweeter, other positive reviews, and the potential for better corner sound.
 
#14 ·
So I got both the HTD level twos and the Wavecrest HVL-1. Honestly tough to evaluate for someone with little idea what they are doing.... Turned off all eq and set my crossovers to 80, left loudness on. Tried both systems with ny normal (pandora, cable tv, fire tv etc.) Not actually loving either but with the wavecrest dialog is a bit clearer I think. But I have also used them more than the HTD. Do these need to "break in"? I was about set to order the HTD level two towers and move the bookshelves to the surrounds, but not now unless I can get clearer sound out of the center. Kind of wish I went with the ascends, but too late to order those to compare.
 
#15 ·
Wavecrest are oriented towards mid-range and that's why you're hearing clearer dialogue. Start by listening to the speakers near field, in a room full of stuff (if you can) and then take it from there. Break in is real (to me) and it varies from ear to ear. Some people are able to listen to the changes and some can't. Some people consider break-in a hoax.

What is it that you did not like? Are they not loud enough? Sound muddy? Let us know.
 
#16 ·
The problem with break in period is our minds cannot remember what we heard 10-20-30 hrs ago...the ONLY way to really show a difference in break in period is:
1. Measure the speakers FR out of the box and after 40 hours
2. Run one speaker for 40 hour, leave the other one in the box...then listen to each speaker on its own at the same time.
But yes, the experts say speakers do break in and usually the differences are modest. My feeling is this...if you don't like the speaker right out of the box, the changes aren't likely enough to change your mind.
However, i would listen to them with and without room EQ. Some speakers/room have some flaws that can be easily corrected for with a little EQ.
 
#17 ·
Thank you for the replies

I honestly have a hard time remembering exactly what they sounded like by the time I switch to the other set, so no probably would never identify definitive improvement through break. More likely a sense of enjoying them more perhaps.

Break-in could matter though if I thought the vocals might get clearer on the HTDs. I find myself straining to understand dialog with the HTDs. Of course a lot of that probably has to do with loud music and loud engines in my youth. The Wavecrest do seem a bit sharper for dialog, and less fatiguing, however they still seem a little dull overall. For music they both seem similar, not bad but not thrilling and a bit empty. The both seem brighter with EQ on but dialog is still better on the Wavecrest

Perhaps, I should send the HTDs back and continue tweaking the Wavecrests EQ until it sounds right to me. Room full of stuff is easy enough :) The media room is loaded with boxes etc during transition.

If I can't get the Wavecrests where I want them I might end up replacing with something else, and use two of the Wavecrests for Zone 2. That would waste the third speaker, but I am at the end of my trial period and with non-refundable shipping both ways may be worth the risk to keep them.

Does anyone think I would have better luck with the Ascend HTM-200 SE at this point? Or is there a higher level option I should consider biting the bullet on? Would still need to be fairly small and placed close to the wall near corners.
 
#18 ·
Does anyone think I would have better luck with the Ascend HTM-200 SE at this point? Or is there a higher level option I should consider biting the bullet on? Would still need to be fairly small and placed close to the wall near corners.
Having little to no luck with different speakers that are considered by many to be good options suggests the issue may lie somewhere else, like configuration or placement for example. I'm very familiar with both the HTD's and WaveCrest, and neither of them struck me as lacking. You may find the Ascends to be better, but it's just as likely you won't.
 
#20 ·
I am sure a lot of it is my set up, lack of experience, and perhaps even fading hearing. I assume with adjustments I can get the Wavecrests to sound a lot better, maybe I would even find I like the HTDs better if I could get the EQ curve right. As you said, others with a lot more experience see to like them both. But, I am still thinking a better tweeter may work better for me. And, I have to send one or the other back soon, so giving up on the level twos.

HTD is still in their annual sale so might be worth trying the Threes, as they seem to be more dialog capable, but I need to confirm return policy after first order.

Otherwise, will just keep playing with the Wavecrests for a while. Maybe shrink my projector screen to get them out of the corners etc.

Thank you again for your help, greatly appreciated.
 
#21 ·
Let your ears adjust to both the HTDs and Wavecrests sound signature and you will probably eventually determine whether either speakers is for you in the long run. This could take some time, especially if you find it difficult to hear differences and everyone hear things differently. Again the Ascends HTM-200SEs are an improvement to the Wavecrests and are close to the CBM-170SEs, and they should be due to the price difference.

The HTD Threes are also worth a try and they should be better than the Twos, but expect that very similar laid back sound signature to the Twos.

Listen to as many speakers as you can and let your ears, heart, and budget decide what's best for you. :cool:
 
#22 ·
Speaker setup is critical to try and attain what the speaker has to offer. That being said, we are all different in what sound signature pleases us the most. As Ultra_Sound mentioned, keep listening and adjusting location and toe-in. You have 30 days, so use it. If, by the second week you are still unsure, then it’s probably not the right speaker for you.
 
#24 ·
The treble roll off might be the issue. It seems to be the softer female dialog that gets lost on the WCs. For example the TV show Castle - Richard Castle very clear on the WC, Kate Becket not so much. Other TV and movies similar experience. I hope the ribbon tweeter on the level threes will work for me or maybe the Ascends. Still playing with the WCs though and may keep two for zone 2 music if not for the HT room..
 
#25 ·
The Level Threes arrived and I think I like them a lot better than either the Level Two or HVLs. Sound seems fuller overall, and volume variations in movies are less jarring. Sounds also seem easier to localize, and I can better hear things move across the screen for example. But they sure are big! Will put the HVLs back on this weekend for a final test. Actually considering adding the level Three towers, but they are expensive, not sure how much better than the bookshelves they would be, and I would have to pay return shipping.
 
#26 ·
The towers would give you lower bass which you don't really need since you're crossing over to the sub. A second sub would be more beneficial because it would even out the bass across the room giving you a seamless transition and very smooth bass.
 
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#29 ·
Will have to pass on the Chanes for now. Will be traveling a lot and need to settle on something to enjoy when home :)

Slippery slope starting at ~$500 budget and the towers would put me ~$1500.

Unfortunately I do not have the floor space for another sub while the towers would take the exact space as the books on stands. Actually even a bit less depth. And with there 30hz low end thinking I can cross them at 40 and be able dial back or mute the sub late nights without much impact. Definitely don't need louder, but if better soundtrack representation then maybe. The voice coil on the towers looks like a plus, almost a waste that not on the center which get most of the dialog. Have a few weeks to decide, though not much time home to evaluate the Books.


Here is an odd thought if I pass on the towers - Since this is a 120" projection screen, what if I put three centers across the bottom for LCR? With a 45hz bottom might have to cross at 60 (20hz steps), but the dual woofer center does seem a bit more capable.
 
#30 ·
That is not recommended as an MTM design actually works best vertically and is a compromise design when used as a center to get a lower height.

I'd go with three MTMs vertically or three bookshelves vertically.

Do you have room for three of these vertically?

https://rbhsound.com/r5bi.php

People really love them, especially for Home Theater and three of them are just $340.
 
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