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Speaker cables - can you help me decide between these?

5K views 31 replies 11 participants last post by  dropadred 
#1 ·
Hi Guys,
would you mind helping me to wrap my head around this offer of the cables somehow?
I have chosen (as I always do) to go with the chinese guys over the GhentAudio and in the speaker section with cables I have fallen unconscious from the offering - I have tried to get some information, especially about gauges, but interestingly they offer ones with mash-up of the gauges, which is even more confusing.

So far - the setup should be - Klipsch RP-160M and SMSL SA-98E, so banana plugs on the both sides.

Considered ones (basically all they have) are models S01 - S05, I would insert links, but I have unsufficient amount of posts, but you can find them at ghentaudio.com > Audio Cables > Speaker cable.

If you could even get me the information or two about these, it would be so appreciated.
Thank you, all, for your help.
 
#2 ·
Why don't you have a look at the Neotech Cables, Solid Copper Cores made in Taiwan. There are some being sold on Ebay I purchased a few meters of their 8AWG top of the line Solid Copper Core, it was so fat, I actually made 2 more power cables out of the speaker wire. A Seller Magickpowers over at Ebay sells the XLRs, Speaker Cables. These are used by many high end audio companies as well but rebranded stuff.
 
#3 ·
Here's how you decide on speaker cables. First, use this to determine the gauge you need:
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf

Then buy the least expensive pure copper conductor cable of that gauge you can find. Get connectors if you wish, but they're not required, all AVRs and speakers work perfectly well without them. Whatever you do ignore any and all advertising claims made for cables, their only purpose is to separate fools from their money, preferably as much of it as possible. :rolleyes:
 
#4 ·
The price is not a factor here (until they are priced as the ones at ghentaudio), I just want to finished product - banana plugs are comfortable though, thus the reason I wanted to go with finished cable. Soldering is out of the game, I hate soldering.

Fortunately, because of my desk setup, I will need no more than 1,5m (or 5 ft), so it is not that crucial to get the gauge of 11 AWG and such.
@Phantomaudio - I would like to stick with them, I respect their work and buying from them is my way to support their amazing work.
 
#7 · (Edited)
The Ghent Audio cables are not cheap, but neither are the crazy over priced. $42 for 1.5m (5ft) cables and $51 for 2m (6ft) cables. Again that is not cheap, but if we want to get into crazy expensive cables, I think we can take the thread into a whole new direction. In another forum a discussion decended into who can post the post expensive cable, and the winner was a Pair of 8ft cable ON SALE for US$25,000/pr.

The cables are actually made the Canare wire which I think you can get from Blue Jean Cable -

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

A 6ft cable with Canare wire and quality locking banana plugs would be just under $40 each.

If you want to spend that kind of money, that's purely up to you. And can we also assume that you have no interest in building your own cables. That is taking wire, adding sleeve, heat shrining here and there, then terminating the ends? If not, though expensive, and if you want cables that look nice, these options are workable. Nothing to criticize but the price. Many, if not most here, would not pay extra money to have 'pretty' cables. But too each his own.

If the Ghent Audio Cables appeal to you and you don't mind the price, it is hard to find fault with them. Given all the 'pretty' they have put into them, the price seem, if not reasonable, then at least tolerable.

However, given that the Klipsch speakers are only $420/pr, I question whether $80 to $100 for a pair of cables is justified. Seems excessive to pay 20% to 24% of the speaker cost on just Speaker Wire, when most people spend in the range of 2.5% to 5% of Total System Cost on ALL wire and cable.

Still, your money and they are pretty cables.

But then ... that's just my opinion.

Steve/bluewizard
 
#16 ·

Making your own cables is not very difficult.


You can learn a lot on this thread already posted by bluewizard.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...auties-how-make-your-own-high-end-cables.html


This way it does look fancy.


Your only concerns should be;
-A quality source for wires, plenty available
-Gauge is big enough for the length require and
-Making sure your wires are connected properly, meaning to double and triple check that both ends are connected the same way.
-Finish (sleeve over the cable), what ever you want, it up yo you.


That's it:)
The rest is all the fun of building your own, instead of saying I spend so much money:D


Ray
 
#9 ·
If you haven't bought the RP-160M's yet, consider the RB-61ii's @ $330/pr shipped from Amazon or Klipsch. Saving $220 would seem prudent for even someone to whom money wasn't the level of importance as it is with me! Also, while I am from the school of use enough Cu wire, at 1.5m, #11 Cu for a 100 Wrms max speaker seems excessive. Then there are the banana plug connectors - it's difficult to find in-line such connectors for larger than #16 pure Cu stranded (... which should be fine!).

I have a pair of RB-81ii's - essentially the same speaker as the RB-61ii, save the 8" LF driver (both the RP-160M & RB-61ii have a 6.5".) - and the RB-61ii/81ii are front-ported, which permits placement against a wall or bookcase back.
 
#10 ·
@Bill Fitzmaurice Optional banana plugs soldering you mentioned.
@bluewizard Thank you for you input. Yes, I do not feel like messing with the cables, I like it, it is nice procedure, but (and as ashaming as it sounds) even soldering new 1/4" stereo jack is a mission impossible for me, but I will try it eventially in the future.
And "I do not mind the prices" are taken just towards those cables I have been asking about, I mean the price difference between them, at the end a difference between the cheapest and the most expensive choice is just 5-6$ - that's why I said it.
The pricing - no, it would be just 42$ (5ft S01 model cable), which would be 10% of the price, I would not pay 80-100$ just for the cables, if I would want it for the room setup, I would even bite my tongue and go with making own cables.
@Stainz Unfortunately, in our country only one pair for 500€, none on Amazon (UK, Germany), buying from the international one would result in import fees, tax and no warranty - 410€/pair would be the price of the RP-160M's in one of the local sellers, which is quite great price even compared to the Amazon prices, not even mentioning amazon.com prices - those are terrible right now.
 
#11 ·
#12 ·
dont disagree with above, but you may want to spend money on flexibility of wire, thickness or durability to fit thru holes/walls/under carpet, looks?

people have used old lampcords for ages, but I can afford better at least for just looks.
 
#14 ·
I finally decided I wanted the convenience of plug and play cables so I bought Sewell Direct Deadbolt Banana Plugs from Amazon for ~$23.99 for 12 pairs...they are easy to install and work perfectly as far as I am concerned...the 12 pair pack is out of stock but the 6 pair pack is only a bit more expensive per item...(https://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Direc...&sr=1-1&keywords=sewell+deadbolt+banana+plugs) there are also Mediabridge connectors that look identical for about the same price...
 
#17 ·
Thank you, all, for your inputs.

@Bill Fitzmaurice I have probably left my brain in the other room. I have not realised that, especially not the fact, we are talking about connecting the conductor/conductors to the connector with no other conductors required to be soldered to specific places...all of that with the tiny connector itself (1/8" stereo jack).
This way it sounds quite like a fun and I like it.

@torii Nope, in my case, non of this, this will be a desktop setup, which means maybe 5ft cable for each of the speakers coming out of the SMSL SA-98E next to the stand of the monitor.
@bluewizard Thank you, Steve for the links. Yes, EU shops and amazon (.co.uk, .de) are the best choices for buying something more expensive.

But I could have not missed one fact, the pre-made cables you linked are all more expensive that originally asked by the guys over the Ghentaudio. Speaking of which, I have just realised - I do not need for this application (anything but bi-wire cables) 4 conductors, do I ? It would basically mean the one I need is S03 (price for pair) model, which has reasonable (of course, with the added margin for their work besides the material as well) price as I can see, making own cables (and not buying like 50ft of cable and 14+ connectors..not even mentioning to think about sleeving) would be actually of even bigger cost, than buying the one from Ghent's.

Now, I can see it much clearer now and see the pattern I really want to play with in the future, so especially big thanks for it. For the link to that thread as well.


Viktor
 
#18 · (Edited)
Thank you, all, for your inputs.


@bluewizard Thank you, Steve for the links. Yes, EU shops and amazon (.co.uk, .de) are the best choices for buying something more expensive.

But I could have not missed one fact, the pre-made cables you linked are all more expensive that originally asked by the guys over the Ghentaudio. ....

Now, I can see it much clearer now and see the pattern I really want to play with in the future, so especially big thanks for it. For the link to that thread as well.

Viktor
You did not provide use with a direct link to Ghent Audio Speaker Cables, so we have no way to compare the quality. I spec'd the cable with the absolute best Banana Plugs, that just about doubles the price.

Can we assume these are the specific cable you intend to buy?

http://ghentaudio.com/part/s01.html

In all honesty, 1.5m sounds a bit short, you want a small bit of slack in the cables. 1.5m might be perfect of the situation you are in right now, but how long do your really expect to be in that situation? Plan for the future.

Though remember, no one is faulting the Canare cables, if they really deliver those cables, that is an excellent price.

If we take the Fisual S-FLEX 2.5mm², which admittedly is not as pretty as the Ghent cables, in a 2meter length, terminated with Fisual Banana Plugs, the cost is £16.70 per EACH, or £33.40/pair. And they are shipped from the UK, not China.

But once again, no one is faulting the Canare cables, if they really are Canare cables. We are simply giving you a range of options.

If you want to buy wire, the suggested above is about £2/meter, then adding your own is relatively easy -

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sewell-Silverback-Banana-Plugs-Pieces/dp/B005E1CGZC/ref=sr_1_1

NOTE: For me the above link redirects to the USA, even though it is clearly a link to the UK. Rather than click on it, RIGHT-CLICK and select COPY LINK LOCATION and paste the link into the address bar of a new window or tab.

Much like the Ghent cables, the Silverback Banana plugs use two screws to secure the wire into the connector.

Again, we are simply presenting you with options. You have to make the final decision.

Steve/bluewizard
 
#19 · (Edited)
Regarding correct Wire Gauge. Here are some charts to help you make a determination based on Speaker Impedance and Wire Gauge -







5% is considered an acceptable loss.

In your case with only 1.5m to 2m of cable, you aren't going to have any problem regardless of what wire you use. That said, most will recommend 14ga or 2.5mm².

The Ghent/Canare appears to be 13ga (2.62mm²) but I suspect it is more likely the common Euro 2.5mm². The question is, is that each wire or both wires combined? Noting that the Canare is FOUR conductor wire. For example, if you combine TWO 16ga wires (1.31mm²), you get the equivalent of ONE 13ga (2.62mm²) wire. I suspect that is what is happening with the Canare wire. Though, you get way more wire than you need, so no problem.

That is more than enough. Common wires in the USA are 16ga (1.31mm²) for Short Runs with 14ga (2.08mm²) being the most common, and some people using 12ga (3.31mm²) which is overkill for most, but still cheap enough.

In the EU, the most commonly used is 2.5mm², though 1.5mm² is fine for short run. Rarely do people use 4mm² which is massive overkill for most people.

Hopefully that is helpful.

Steve/bluewizard
 
#20 ·
Regarding correct Wire Gauge. Here are some charts to help you make a determination based on Speaker Impedance and Wire Gauge
Those charts don't consider the wire current capacity, which is just as likely to be an issue as insertion loss. This calculator does consider current, warning if the wire capacity is insufficient:
http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/speakerwireselectorassistant.swf

As for acceptable insertion loss, that's measured in decibels, with less than 1dB being inaudible. The calculator provides the insertion loss, as well as the actual wire resistance.
 
#23 ·
@bluewizard Yea, I know, I did not have 5 posts to be able to include URLs, but (as I have described in my last post), is there any reason for 4 conductor cable such as S01 model?
Actually I am thinking about S03 model, 2 conductors, Canare, sleeving and things like that - 33$ for 5ft.
Btw, at all, ghent guys are verified, so I have no worries about the quality at all.

And if the situation, when I would need much longer cables, old will be sold quite easily, so it is totally ok.


Are some insulation measurements required when buying the cable or is its own insulation sufficient? Like this one
https://www.amazon.de/Pyle-PSC1250-Lautsprecherkabel-hochwertig-AWG/dp/B003ZX8N44/
Like with so many cables you can read in the spreadsheets what kinds of shielding and insulation those cable use.


P.S. - models of the cable are clickable now (same for my very last post, I have already linked S03 model there).
 
#24 ·
@bluewizard Yea, I know, I did not have 5 posts to be able to include URLs, but (as I have described in my last post), is there any reason for 4 conductor cable such as S01 model?
Actually I am thinking about S03 model, 2 conductors, Canare, sleeving and things like that - 33$ for 5ft.
Btw, at all, ghent guys are verified, so I have no worries about the quality at all.

And if the situation, when I would need much longer cables, old will be sold quite easily, so it is totally ok.
Not quite sure what the underlying question is now? The Canare/Ghent S03 looks very good, and seems to be a reasonably priced. So, if you are cool with paying the price and paying shipping - cool.


Are some insulation measurements required when buying the cable or is its own insulation sufficient? Like this one
https://www.amazon.de/Pyle-PSC1250-Lautsprecherkabel-hochwertig-AWG/dp/B003ZX8N44/
Like with so many cables you can read in the spreadsheets what kinds of shielding and insulation those cable use.


P.S. - models of the cable are clickable now (same for my very last post, I have already linked S03 model there).
The Pyle wire is fine and is really all you need. The Ghent is fancy, it's pretty, but that "pretty" doesn't add to the sound. The Pyle wire is 12ga, and is more than you need, but it is cheap enough. It doesn't specifically say that it is copper, but we assume that it is. Even if it is Aluminum, which we hope it is not, it is still large enough to work without conflict.

It is possible to buy round cable, and put jacket over it, then add a bit of heatshrink, and some banana plugs, and make the cable look like the Ghent.

Here is a range of TechFlex Sleeve -

https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_n...as=electronics&field-keywords=techflex+sleeve

Here are Sewell Banana Plugs -

https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_n...anana+plugs&rh=n:562066,k:sewell+banana+plugs

https://www.amazon.de/Sewell-Silver...484774248&sr=1-2&keywords=sewell+banana+plugs

The Silverback are NO Solder plugs, they use two screws to lock the wire in place. This is actually the most common method.

You can also get Nakamichi Banana Plugs with work on the same principle as the Sewell Silverback, two screws to secure the wire -

https://www.amazon.de/Nakamichi-Ban...=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=Mediabridgel+banana+plugs

Here is a range of ROUND speaker wire that would lend itself better to putting Sleeve over it.

https://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_n...2+Speaker+wire&rh=n:562066,k:CL2+Speaker+wire

Just find 14ga or 12ga or 2.5mm², and it will be fine.

All that said, the Pyle or similar wire with no Sleeve Jacket, just plain wire will do as good a job as any.

Just the flat Pyle or round CL2 speaker wire with Banana Plugs on the end is all you really need.

But the ultimate choice is up to you.

Steve/bluewizard
 
#25 ·
So I have tried to find an information or two about those Pyle wires and
https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PSC12100-12-Gauge-feet-Speaker/dp/B003ZX1S46
those are aluminium wires indeed.

Thank you for the links for the cables and Nakamichi plugs, I have even started to think about doing it on my own, even without sleeving, just cable, connectors and heatshrink, which would actually cover everything (cable and connectors, leaving just the contact points themselves uncovered) with no branding to make it simple and slick.

One last question, should I avoid these cheap plugs
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252573665234 ?
 
#26 ·
just to be clear with my opinion
look for quality oxygen free copper, proper sizing and secure connectors.
other then that
The electrical signal travelling 1.5 meters at the speed of light really won't care.
 
#27 ·
I would like to revive the topic one more time - I have found out (yep, a golden rule of "buy more/longer, maybe you'll need it later" applied) my RCA interconnect (DACAMP) cable is too short, so the question is - I reckon I cannot use speaker cable for this kind of cable, can I?

If I can, I would do it on my own at the end...as buying yet another set of RCAs to the pair of speaker ones would be too much of a cost.
 
#29 ·
One thing I don't understand about cables,

Why would looks be an issue? I go to some effort to completely hide my cables from the amp or AVR all the way to the speakers. Hide my HDMI cables, other interconnects etc. so they won't get stepped on, pulled by kids, knawed on by dogs etc.

In car audio, it was a considerable pain in the butt to hide all the wires for a professional fit and finish. You saw the amp but all the wires were routed under the amp and came in from the bottom to plug in. The amps I used had plates that went over the connections to HIDE the wires.

Back in my PA days, we used racks with caps on them to hold all the gear and protect/cover the wiring. The thick speaker cables were routed along the stage to keep away from customers and to hide them for a professional appearance.

Is the style now to have cables laying all over the place with the processors facing the wrong way so people can look at wire? Should I use those connections on the front of the AVR to use massive cables as the preferred connection?

To me, cables are not sexy, they are an eyesore so anything I can do to stealth the things is good. Giant, gaudy cables that scream look at me seems to be the exact opposite of general ways of doing things. Maybe that is a style for some, massive cables propped up on cable elevators to really make them obvious.

Giant cables don't improve performance, make routing them a pain and cost more money--while being a @!!#& to hide. It confuses me why people are so anal about how pretty something is which is then hidden in actual use. The electrical and comm wiring in buildings can never be accused of being pretty, the stuff is quite ugly but you never see it.

I don't get it. Bill Fitz has been around longer than me and has paid more attention--when did hidden wire style become a "thing"? :confused:
 
#30 ·
They make high priced wire pretty to distinguish it from sensibly priced wire, and with what they charge it doesn't impact their obscene profit margins to do it. I suppose if you think your friends will be impressed with pretty wire, or by what they think you spent on it, you'd want to prominently display it. The only person I need to impress is me, so my speaker wiring can't be seen at all.
 
#31 · (Edited)
So, back to the cable...I have checked the Ghent as I was curious what cable they use and it seems they use Canare L-4E6S, but I just wonder how, do they strip all four conductors, twisting them together and use them for the connection to the plug?
If so, suprisingly (considering it is USA company), we have a local distribution, whereas 1 meter (~3 ft) costs just 1,96€ (again, ignore €, USDEUR is now almost even), so it would not be even some big investment.

As far as the plugs go, what do you think about screw-lock (solderless) ones such as this junk, which internally look like this or is it too much of a junk? Or these, which look like they are of a better quality and more expensive.
 
#32 ·
Okay, so, please, disregard the post above, I was messed up by the tons and tons of information and it took me a while to get all my ideas/freshly gained knowledge straight.

As you guys tried to say at the very beggining of the topic, I have actually decided to DIY, I have just finished ordering material (oh...and having a depression because of it)...this thing is not cheap...not at all, but I am looking forward to it, all the German and Japanese goodies. It will be pleasure to post them to the well known topic afterwards.

So thank you all again, and wish me and a shipping process a luck to get my connectors here at time (only Japanese material) before I will have a budget fulfilled for the Klipschs'.
 
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