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post #1 of 129 Old 01-12-2017, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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help find good speaker wire

is it make big Difference in sound quality

my setup is for songs i only have 2 speakers in small room

help get me good cables from amazon not more than 25 $
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post #2 of 129 Old 01-12-2017, 08:01 PM
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Any 16 ga. wire will do.
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post #3 of 129 Old 01-12-2017, 08:03 PM
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post #4 of 129 Old 01-12-2017, 08:18 PM
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I bought this stuff: Sewell Silverback 12ga terminated in banana plug.

It's a few bucks more than bare wire, but I like the convenience of the banana plugs, and while I probably didn't need as thick as 12ga either, a little extra never hurts.
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post #5 of 129 Old 01-13-2017, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmed Mohmed View Post
is it make big Difference in sound quality

my setup is for songs i only have 2 speakers in small room

help get me good cables from amazon not more than 25 $
Any 16 AWG should be good, but if you can afford do 14 AWG.
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post #6 of 129 Old 01-13-2017, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmed Mohmed View Post
is it make big Difference in sound quality
It makes no difference. Do a forum search, this topic comes up at least twice a week.
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post #7 of 129 Old 01-13-2017, 08:54 AM
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I will speculate that there are some circumstance where certain wire can make some difference. But, most of us are not likely to be in that situation.

You haven't specifically told us what equipment you have, so it is hard for us to make a determinations. But it would probably be just fine to go down to the local Hardware Store and by 16ga or 14ga common ZIP cord, which is just common 2-conductor wire used in extension cords.

However, most would recommend that you buy high purity copper wire, which is not that expensive. In fact you can do down to Home Depot, Menards, Lowes, and similar and by actual Speaker Wire. I suspect that would be fine for your needs.

The 12ga Speaker Wires from Sewell Direct are good quality and reasonably priced, and they come terminated with quality Banana Plugs.

https://sewelldirect.com/silverback-...-ft-terminated

3ft cable = $6.95 each
6ft cable = $9.95 each
10ft cable = $14.95 each

That should certainly cover most of your needs.

You can buy bulk speaker wire at Menard Home Improvement for very low cost -

https://www.menards.com/main/electri...08983606378345

To really have context, we would need to know the specific equipment you have.

However, there are many source of very reasonably priced wire.

Another example, and a favorite on the forums is MonoPrice -

https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=102&cp_id=10239

Notice that Monoprice has speaker wires that are already terminated with banana plugs -

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_...seq=1&format=2

Parts Express is also a reliable source for Wire -

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/hi...aker-wire/1617

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/in...aker-wire/1618

If you get raw wire and want to put your own ends on, the Sewell Silverback simply use two screws to secure the wire in the connector -

https://sewelldirect.com/sewell-silv...ew-lock-6-pair

The Sewell Deadbolt are even easier to install -

https://sewelldirect.com/sewell-dead...-plugs-12-pair

Scroll down on these webpages to see diagrams on how to use the connectors.

Just a few thoughts.

Steve/bluewizard
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Last edited by bluewizard; 01-13-2017 at 08:58 AM.
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post #8 of 129 Old 01-13-2017, 09:07 AM
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Per your question concerning speaker wire on Amazon, this wire looks good:

https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-1...er+wire+16+AWG

ASIN: B00N18VEJ4

It's pure copper, not copper aluminum.

It's UL listed CL2, which is a fire rating. It can be used in wall and this sort of rating usually suggests better overall construction.

The pairs are twisted which is good. This has been explained on this forum previously.

Mediabridge sells a variety of products on Amazon and has for several years. This product has gotten good reviews although that isn't always a guarantee of quality.

Be careful of purchasing this sort of product on Amazon. For some products sold on Amazon there is becoming more of a "buy beware" situation, especially on products not shipped under the Prime program. The wire may be undersized, or copper/aluminum. Many reviews on Amazon address these subjects. The jacket may even interact with copper over time. It is hard for the average purchaser to know if the product is as advertised.

Connecting bare wire to speakers works well. Connectors are convenient, but not required, unless for some reason bare wire can't be connected to your equipment.
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post #9 of 129 Old 01-13-2017, 11:02 AM
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Here is a direct link to MEDIABRIGE. When you buy on Amazon, you are buying directly from them. I've bought their Banana Plugs recently with no problems, very good, very easy to use Banana Plugs-

Spade Connectors - 6 pair at $18.95 -


https://www.mediabridgeproducts.com/...es/spade-tips/

Banana Connectors - 6 pair at $13.99 -


https://www.mediabridgeproducts.com/...-pair-24-pack/

Pre-Made Speaker cables - (12ga/6ft = $14.99 each; 16ga/6ft = $12.99 each) -

https://www.mediabridgeproducts.com/...peaker-cables/

14ga Speaker wire - 50ft = $10.99 -

https://www.mediabridgeproducts.com/...gauge-50-feet/

16ga Double Jacket Speaker wire - $37.00/100ft

https://www.mediabridgeproducts.com/...auge-100-feet/

Assuming this is for Stereo, 50ft of 14ga is fine and very economical at $11/50ft.

Though all the other sources I mentioned are fine too.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #10 of 129 Old 01-13-2017, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3474@yahoo.com View Post
Any 16 AWG should be good, but if you can afford do 14 AWG.
14 awg better ???

or 16 or 18

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post #11 of 129 Old 01-13-2017, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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i have yamaha 481 and polk rti a3
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post #12 of 129 Old 01-13-2017, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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i thinking of this

Mediabridge 16AWG 2-Conductor Speaker Wire (100 Feet, Clear)

https://www.amazon.com/Mediabridge-1...HDDPX8TV9YP0CJ

Ocelot Banana Plugs, 24k Gold Plated Connectors, Open Screw Type, 12 Pair


https://www.amazon.com/Ocelot-Banana...A8KYRBQ78&th=1


both make 28 $

or i go with Monoprice 24k Gold Plated Speaker Banana Plugs




i thinking of bi amping
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post #13 of 129 Old 01-13-2017, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
However, most would recommend that you buy high purity copper wire, which is not that expensive.
My company buys tens to hundreds of millions in cable per year. I've visited several of the manufacturers who make the specialised cables we use and seen the spools of IIRC 8mm diameter copper from the foundry. When asked about the purity they all said '4 nines' or 99.99% pure. So power cables here, and I'd be surprised if it were different around the world are just as 'pure' as the speaker cables they also make; after all, it's the same copper.

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i thinking of bi amping
Passive biamping? Don't bother it makes zero sonic difference.
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post #14 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmed Mohmed View Post
14 awg better ???

or 16 or 18
There's no "better", just what is fit for purpose.

Simply determine your minimum gauge using this tool: http://www.bcae1.com/images/swfs/spe...rassistant.swf ...get a spool of that, hook it up and forget about it.

Speaker wire is a trivial part of a system and really doesn't warrant the amount of mental energy being devoted to it... by you or us.

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i thinking of bi amping
Forget about it. Makes no electrical difference and therefore can't make any actual difference to the sound. Waste of time and speaker wire.
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post #15 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 06:41 AM
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My company buys tens to hundreds of millions in cable per year. ... When asked about the purity they all said '4 nines' or 99.99% pure. ....
You will note that I said he could go down to the hardware store and buy ZIP cord.

There are increasing levels of purity. But assuming that the wire is decent to start with the increase levels of purity are in the fractions. Though no more than an illustration to make my point, one grade might be 99%, the next grade up would be 99.9%, and the grade higher than that might be 99.99%. Though again that's just an illustration. I have seen the actual number recently, but they escape my mind at the moment.

However common OFC Speaker Wire is not that expensive, as I clearly illustrated. I was at Home Depot, and their house brand CE TECH was about $16 for 50 feet of 14ga. At about $0.32/foot, that is actually more than many others, but you can buy it in the store and walk out with it.

I don't think wire and cable will make a difference for most people as long as it is of a reasonable minimum standard and appropriate to the task.

While many reject the idea, I'm of the school that scales wire and cable up or down as a percentage of the system cost. Typically in the 3% to 5% range. Though that is just for budgeting, for anticipating the cost. When it comes time to actually buy, spend more or less as you see fit.

There is some benefit to the cosmetics of a cable, but bounds of reason, speaker cables can get LITERALLY CRAZY expensive. Crazy expensive as in many hundreds if not many thousands of dollars. That really is crazy. But down on a more reasonably end of the scale, people are allowed to make aesthetic considerations.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #16 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
I'm of the school that scales wire and cable up or down as a percentage of the system cost.
That school is not one that has an electrical engineering department.
It very much would offer a course in Snake Oil Marketing 101.

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post #17 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 06:59 AM
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Here are charts to help you find the proper wire given a certain amount of signal loss and speaker impedance. Up to 5% loss is consider acceptable. At length longer than 50ft, inductive signal loss becomes significant, but it is frequency dependent and tends to start trimming the high frequencies first. Typically long runs are to Surround Speakers, and a slight attenuation in high frequencies is not that critical.








Again, 5% is considered acceptable loss.

As you can see, common 14ga is good up to 16ft for 4 ohms, 23.5ft for 6 ohm, and 31.5ft for 8 ohms at a very modest 2% loss.

16ga at the same 2% loss would be 10ft for 4 ohm speaker, 15ft for 6 ohm speakers, and 20ft for 8 ohm speakers.

At 5% loss, the range is 25ft 16ga 4 ohms up to 70ft 14ga 8 ohm.

As you can see these two gauges cover just about every situation. 14ga is not that much more expensive, so people buy it on principle rather than actual need. Many buy 12ga, which is overkill in the extreme, but again, not all that expensive.

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post #18 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 07:07 AM
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As you can see from my charts, you can get a sense of the size of the wire by looking at the Cross Sectional Area (mm²).

18ga is 0.823 mm²
16ga is 1.31 mm²
14ga is 2.08 mm²
12ga is 3.31 mm²

16ga being common for short runs, and 14ga being very common simply because it does not cost that much more.

But you will notice for the 5% chart, even small 18ga covers the range from 16ft to 31ft.

All that said, most have 16ga or 14ga, with a few buying 12ga because 12ga is not that expensive.

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post #19 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
That school is not one that has an electrical engineering department.
It very much would offer a course in Snake Oil Marketing 101.
Perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned Aesthetics ... yet urged restraint.

While I am saying BUDGET 3% to 5% which reflects what people actually spend, most audio shops are going to recommend 10% to 25%. I am being conservative in my recommendation.

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post #20 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
most audio shops are going to recommend 10% to 25%.
That only means they're more concerned with profit than doing right by their customers. There's nothing wrong with making a fair profit, everyone has to eat. When you inflate that profit by gouging your customers, such as by telling them nonsense like they need to spend a certain percentage, any percentage, of the system price on cables, you're not a smart businessman. You're a crook.

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post #21 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmed Mohmed View Post
is it make big Difference in sound quality

my setup is for songs i only have 2 speakers in small room

help get me good cables from amazon not more than 25 $

The main thing is to get speaker wire that is pure copper, NOT NOT CCA, which stands for copper-clad aluminum.

Monoprice sells excellent speaker cable at low prices.

I recommend their 14-gauge pure copper speaker wire (Monoprice #2748) , which is only $13 for 50 feet.

I think Amazon sells it, but for a slightly higher price.

Their 12-gauge pure copper speaker wire (#2747) is only slightly more, $16 for 50 feet.
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post #22 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 08:23 AM
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Amazon and eBay are full of adequate and inexpensive copper speaker wire--including twisted pair, which is best for minimizing 60 Hz hum pickup. BUT stay away from anything that does not say 100 % copper. The copper coated aluminum is really cheap but you will need to go up at least one size (ie 16 ga to 14 ga) and if you have to solder it--good luck on getting a good joint. You'd have a hard time purchasing ANY 100% copper wire that was not "OFC".

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post #23 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
That only means they're more concerned with profit than doing right by their customers. There's nothing wrong with making a fair profit, everyone has to eat. When you inflate that profit by gouging your customers, such as by telling them nonsense like they need to spend a certain percentage, any percentage, of the system price on cables, you're not a smart businessman. You're a crook.
Can't deny what you are saying, but you seem to have missed what I was saying -

While I am saying BUDGET 3% to 5% which reflects what people actually spend, most audio shops are going to recommend 10% to 25%. I am being conservative in my recommendation.


Further, if you look at my recommendations, they are pretty conservative; just basic wire.

However, it is up to the Original Poster to provide perspective and tell us what his specific needs are. If he wants to spend $100/pr to $200/pr, that's his money - his life, but I don't recommend it unless he has a system that can justify it.

Again, cosmetic and aesthetics do matter to some people. But, you can only spend just so much money on aesthetics before it become ridiculous. I think we can agree on that.

With little to no information to go on, I have recommended very reasonably price wire and cable. But lacking information from the original poster, I thought it might help to add some perspective to help him make his decision.

Steve/bluewizard

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post #24 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
While I am saying BUDGET 3% to 5% which reflects what people actually spend, most audio shops are going to recommend 10% to 25%. I am being conservative in my recommendation.
I'm saying that there's no reason to assign any arbitrary percentage of system price to cable, no matter what that percentage may be. There is a finite dollar figure you can use: $1 per foot for the cable, plus $5 per connector. And that's a maximum. By that guideline you can spend perhaps $100 on the cables for a $500 system, or you can spend the same $100 on the same cables for a $50,000 system. Any talk about 'you should spend this percentage on cables' is just so much huckstering, having no basis whatsoever in the science of audio reproduction.
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post #25 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 10:12 AM
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Your Amazon choices look perfect. Don't be mislead by claims made for expensive cables. 14 or 16 gauge will do perfectly.

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post #26 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
I'm saying that there's no reason to assign any arbitrary percentage of system price to cable, no matter what that percentage may be. ...
There is a reason ...it is called PERSPECTIVE.

I'm not dictating that anyone do any thing. I'm pointing out what many people actually do, and that lends perspective to those curious about what they should do. I do this because the OP has not provided us with sufficient information to make specific recommendations. So, we generalize. But notice that all the suggestions I did make were for very reasonably priced basic common wire. $10 to $15 per 50 feet.

Feel free to not use that guideline, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be given to others, which they can then heed or ignore at their choosing.

Steve/bluewizard
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post #27 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
There is a reason ...it is called PERSPECTIVE.

I'm not dictating that anyone do any thing. I'm pointing out what many people actually do, and that lends perspective to those curious about what they should do. I do this because the OP has not provided us with sufficient information to make specific recommendations. So, we generalize. But notice that all the suggestions I did make were for very reasonably priced basic common wire. $10 to $15 per 50 feet.

Feel free to not use that guideline, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be given to others, which they can then heed or ignore at their choosing.

Steve/bluewizard

Also.


The difference of price now a day, between 16, 14 or 12 Awg is so small.
Why not go to the bigger wire if it does not affect your overall budget.


Ray
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post #28 of 129 Old 01-14-2017, 08:30 PM
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[QUOTE=Ahmed Mohmed;49839825]....my setup is for songs i only have 2 speakers in small room.... [QUOTE]

I don't think the charts and graphs apply here. Any 16 gauge wire will do for this setup. No need to geek out on this setup. Don't let anyone overcomplicate this simple operation for you.
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post #29 of 129 Old 01-15-2017, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
I'm pointing out what many people actually do


Quote:
Feel free to not use that guideline, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be given to others
It's not about like or dislike, it's that it makes no sense. If you follow it then you might not use wire that meets minimum requirements in an inexpensive system, while throwing perfectly good money away for no good reason with an expensive system. The 'S' in AVS stands for 'science'. There's no science whatsoever in this 'guideline'.
Now if this was the AMS forum, as in Audio Marketing Scams, it might prove useful.
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post #30 of 129 Old 01-15-2017, 07:00 AM
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I finally got through to a friend of mine on the subject by asking him to pull out one of the drivers on his speaker. He asked me why. I said let's just do it.

So, he pulled it. We then took a look a the connections and wire inside of the speaker.

It was pretty basic stuff as are most speakers. They were a nice mid-fi speaker, about 4k a pair. I asked him why on earth he would run better and more expensive cable from his amp to the speakers (he was contemplating $350.00 cables for 2 8 ft runs), when that cable would then be connected to a speaker, run into a crossover, and then out through fairly basic speaker cable.

The light went on at that point. I said IF you believe it makes a difference, then you need to disassemble your speaker and replace all of that inner wire at the same time.

I happen to run the Canare 4s11. Heck, it's probably even overkill, but it looks nice with a jacket on it. But if I had to just run some pure copper cable tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me at all.
John Schuermann likes this.
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