Finally I have Saved- Kind Advice on Paradigm - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 44 Old 04-17-2017, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Finally I have Saved- Kind Advice on Paradigm

Hi guys, I worked really hard to save some money for a HT upgrade. I'm looking for Paradigm speakers, first here is my setup 7.2.4.

1- Front : Definitive Technology BP2004TL ( Powered)
2- Center: Definitive Technology CLR 2500 (Powered)
3- Surround: Definitive Technology BPVX (Powered)
4- Back Surround: Definitive Technology: BPX
5- Atmos: 4 Klipsch RP-140SA
6- Subwoofer: Definitive Technology SuperCube 1
7- AV Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR3030
8- Blu Ray: Denon DBT-3313UD
9- TV: Panasonic Plasma 65"
11- Room: My room size is 2150 Cubic Feet. Room floor Tiles, Walls are Concrete and Ceiling is Gypsum board. My listening distance is 11 Feet from front and center speakers.

I feel my front are no match for the rest of my system and I got a great deal on the Paradigm Prestige 95F as fronts and Prestige 55C as Center. I found them for a great price of $4,525.

My Question are they too large for my room, should I buy the 85F & 45C instead.

Kindly advice and as I have saved for the past two years to be able to upgrade.

Many thanks for your help in advance.
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post #2 of 44 Old 04-17-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by greatestboss View Post
Hi guys, I worked really hard to save some money for a HT upgrade. I'm looking for Paradigm speakers, first here is my setup.


6- Subwoofer: Definitive Technology SuperCube 1

11- Room: My room size is 2150 Cubic Feet. Room floor Tiles, Walls are Concrete and Ceiling is Gypsum board. My listening distance is 11 Feet from front and center speakers.

I feel my front are no match for the rest of my system and I got a great deal on the Paradigm Prestige 95F as fronts and Prestige 55C as Center. I found them for a great price of $4,525.

My Question are they too large for my room, should I buy the 85F & 45C instead.

Kindly advice and as I have saved for the past two years to be able to upgrade.

Many thanks for your help in advance.
Stereophile had this to say about your question:

"Of Paradigm's Prestige models, I'd bet money that the 85F, with a smaller midrange driver, a tweeter slightly closer to ear height, and a lower price ($3998/pair) than the 95F, may be the sweet spot of the range: You'll probably sacrifice a bit of bottom-end heft, but a good subwoofer—and Paradigm offers plenty of them—will more than recover that.

But for a likely lower overall cost, and for those who must fill a large room—yet to whom subwoofers are the spawn of Satan—the Prestige 95F offers a ton of value and performance."

Read more at http://www.stereophile.com/content/p...h1SLYY87CQC.99

Geoff A. J., California
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post #3 of 44 Old 04-18-2017, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=gajCA;52312089]Stereophile had this to say about your question:

[B][I]"Of Paradigm's Prestige models, I'd bet money that the 85F, with a smaller midrange driver, a tweeter slightly closer to ear height, and a lower price ($3998/pair) than the 95F, may be the sweet spot of the range: You'll probably sacrifice a bit of bottom-end heft, but a good subwoofer—and Paradigm offers plenty of them—will more than recover that.

But for a likely lower overall cost, and for those who must fill a large room—yet to whom subwoofers are the spawn of Satan—the Prestige 95F offers a ton of value and performance."



Thank you for your prompt reply and advice. I'll look at the offers on the 85F and see if I can find any good deal. FYI, the price I got for 95F/pair + 55C was $4,525 which I believe is very good.
Any experience with 55C. And do you find my DT SuperCube 1 not matching the Paradigm fronts and center. Do I need to replace it with a Paradigm Prestige 2000SW or Prestige 1000SW.

Thanks
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post #4 of 44 Old 04-18-2017, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by greatestboss View Post

Thank you for your prompt reply and advice. I'll look at the offers on the 85F and see if I can find any good deal. FYI, the price I got for 95F/pair + 55C was $4,525 which I believe is very good.

Any experience with 55C. And do you find my DT SuperCube 1 not matching the Paradigm fronts and center. Do I need to replace it with a Paradigm Prestige 2000SW or Prestige 1000SW.

Thanks
No, my brother had some Paradigm towers that his son now and they were excellent; I think they were mid priced models.

I'm not sure what the Supercube you have specs are but if it plays into at least the mid 20 hz range you should be fine.

No need to match the brand of sub to the brand of speakers.

That is usually the worst way to go, honestly, as subs from companies that specialize them, like SVS, are generally superior to those offered by manufacturers mostly known for their speakers.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #5 of 44 Old 04-18-2017, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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No, my brother had some Paradigm towers that his son now and they were excellent; I think they were mid priced models.

I'm not sure what the Supercube you have specs are but if it plays into at least the mid 20 hz range you should be fine.

No need to match the brand of sub to the brand of speakers.

That is usually the worst way to go, honestly, as subs from companies that specialize them, like SVS, are generally superior to those offered by manufacturers mostly known for their speakers.
Below are the Specs of the Defintive Technology SuperCube 1:
bass-reflex (passive radiator) enclosure
10" long-throw woofer pressure-coupled to two 10" low bass radiators
built-in 1,500-watt amplifier
frequency response 13-200 Hz
continuously variable low-pass 40-150 Hz crossover
auto on/off
phase control dial for fine-tuning bass performance
speaker-level inputs and outputs
80 Hz fixed high-pass crossover for speaker-level outputs
line-level inputs and outputs
continuously variable high-pass 40-150 Hz crossover for line-level outputs
LFE input for use with home theater receiver's subwoofer output


Check the uploaded images on the original post, for your information.

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post #6 of 44 Old 04-18-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by greatestboss View Post
Hi guys, I worked really hard to save some money for a HT upgrade. I'm looking for Paradigm speakers, first here is my setup.

1- Front : Definitive Technology PB 2006TL ( Powered)
2- Center: Definitive Technology CLR 2500 (Powered)
3- Surround: Definitive Technology BPVX (Powered)
4- Back Surround: Definitive Technology: BPX
5- Atmos: Klipsch RP-140SA
6- Subwoofer: Definitive Technology SuperCube 1
7- AV Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR3030
8- Blu Ray: Denon DBT-3313UD
9- TV: Panasonic Plasma 65"
11- Room: My room size is 2150 Cubic Feet. Room floor Tiles, Walls are Concrete and Ceiling is Gypsum board. My listening distance is 11 Feet from front and center speakers.

I feel my front are no match for the rest of my system and I got a great deal on the Paradigm Prestige 95F as fronts and Prestige 55C as Center. I found them for a great price of $4,525.

My Question are they too large for my room, should I buy the 85F & 45C instead.

Kindly advice and as I have saved for the past two years to be able to upgrade.

Many thanks for your help in advance.
Take a look at the pictures linked in my sig. Those are 95Fs and a 55C in the room. I love them, however, I could see sending too much power to them, but I have not. Anyway, I do not think there is a size limitation. What is most important is if you like the way they sound at appropriate listening levels.

My HT and the thrill of getting new equipment.
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post #7 of 44 Old 04-18-2017, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatestboss View Post
Below are the Specs of the Defintive Technology SuperCube 1:
bass-reflex (passive radiator) enclosure
10" long-throw woofer pressure-coupled to two 10" low bass radiators
built-in 1,500-watt amplifier
frequency response 13-200 Hz
continuously variable low-pass 40-150 Hz crossover
auto on/off
phase control dial for fine-tuning bass performance
speaker-level inputs and outputs
80 Hz fixed high-pass crossover for speaker-level outputs
line-level inputs and outputs
continuously variable high-pass 40-150 Hz crossover for line-level outputs
LFE input for use with home theater receiver's subwoofer output


Check the uploaded images on the original post, for your information.
Very impressive for such a small sub.

http://hometheaterreview.com/definit...viewed/?page=2

But these frequency response charts from a Sound and Vision review indicate that true performance is well short of the claims so with money saved on the main speakers you might consider a new sub and maybe sell the old one.


http://web.archive.org/web/200406190...2003153710.pdf

But SVS subs are not cheap in Canada; PB1000 is $700 Canadian and a PB2000 is $1120.

https://www.electronicsforless.ca/ma...urers/svs-188/

Geoff A. J., California
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post #8 of 44 Old 04-18-2017, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Very impressive for such a small sub.

http://hometheaterreview.com/definit...viewed/?page=2

But these frequency response charts from a Sound and Vision review indicate that true performance is well short of the claims so with money saved on the main speakers you might consider a new sub and maybe sell the old one.


http://web.archive.org/web/200406190...2003153710.pdf

But SVS subs are not cheap in Canada; PB1000 is $700 Canadian and a PB2000 is $1120.

https://www.electronicsforless.ca/ma...urers/svs-188/
Many thanks, great info, I'll check the subs
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Originally Posted by wiyosaya View Post
Take a look at the pictures linked in my sig. Those are 95Fs and a 55C in the room. I love them, however, I could see sending too much power to them, but I have not. Anyway, I do not think there is a size limitation. What is most important is if you like the way they sound at appropriate listening levels.
Many thanks, Impressive pictures and setup. I guess I will go with this choice and combination. I think $4,525 for 95F/pair + C55 is a good deal for brand new speakers. Don't you agree?

I'll buy a good subwoofer too. Did you manage to see pictures I posted.
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post #10 of 44 Old 04-18-2017, 01:06 PM
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Many thanks, Impressive pictures and setup. I guess I will go with this choice and combination. I think $4,525 for 95F/pair + C55 is a good deal for brand new speakers. Don't you agree?

I'll buy a good subwoofer too. Did you manage to see pictures I posted.
You are welcome!

Yes, that price is a great deal. That is about what I got mine for having taken advantage of the free 55C when buying a pair of 95Fs promo that Paradigm was running earlier this year. I also have a long-term relationship with my dealer - so I got a great price.

I saw the pics of your sub and started a post, however, I deleted it as what I said was mostly irrelevant in light of the fact that I failed to read the specs on the sub you have compared to the 2000. They are nearly identical in terms of response. The DIN value on the 2000 is 12 Hz, but it has a 2,000W RMS amp.

All I can say is that I absolutely love my Servo-15 which has a DIN response of 14Hz but only a 400W amp. I run the main volume control on it at about 1/2, and have let my RX-A1050 shape the response curve. I think it sounds great on both movies and music. I chose the Servo-15 because its response was significantly lower than the 28Hz DIN point of the mains I had at the time - Paradigm Monitor 11se Mk III. In such a small room, it is relatively easy to get a good response profile from a wide variety of material without much effort especially with YPAO built-in to the 1050.

If I were you and I had the budget to upgrade my sub, I probably would. At this point, though, I do not have that budget. I've been spoiled, though, by the Servo-15, and if I were to upgrade, it would be to the 2000. Movies like "Interstellar" are just not the same without such a capable sub.

You might also be interested in the Paradigm owners thread.

Note that through the end of April, if you trade up to the 2000 at an authorized dealer from any brand, you will get a 20% discount off the price of a new 2000.

You will need to fill out the form at the above link to get a discount code to bring to your dealer.

My HT and the thrill of getting new equipment.

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post #11 of 44 Old 04-18-2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greatestboss View Post
Hi guys, I worked really hard to save some money for a HT upgrade. I'm looking for Paradigm speakers, first here is my setup.

1- Front : Definitive Technology PB 2006TL ( Powered)
2- Center: Definitive Technology CLR 2500 (Powered)
3- Surround: Definitive Technology BPVX (Powered)
4- Back Surround: Definitive Technology: BPX
5- Atmos: Klipsch RP-140SA
6- Subwoofer: Definitive Technology SuperCube 1
7- AV Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR3030
8- Blu Ray: Denon DBT-3313UD
9- TV: Panasonic Plasma 65"
11- Room: My room size is 2150 Cubic Feet. Room floor Tiles, Walls are Concrete and Ceiling is Gypsum board. My listening distance is 11 Feet from front and center speakers.

I feel my front are no match for the rest of my system and I got a great deal on the Paradigm Prestige 95F as fronts and Prestige 55C as Center. I found them for a great price of $4,525.

My Question are they too large for my room, should I buy the 85F & 45C instead.

Kindly advice and as I have saved for the past two years to be able to upgrade.

Many thanks for your help in advance.
I have some paradigm towers. IF you are going to have sub and don't plan on listening to 2.0 (not 2.1), I'm not sure if larger towers are going to be any better. Mainly because the primary difference between the 95 and 75; 45 and 55 is primarily the low end.

So in that case, I got the 75's and I wish I would have gotten bookshelfs and used the extra money on a higher quality center (the signature vs the prestige) OR put the extra money in the sub.

If you plan on listening to 2.0 stereo with no sub then I think the 85 and 95 would be worth it. You're basically paying for more bass and a bit more power.

Marantz 7010 for 7.2.4
2 x Paradigm Prestige 75F's
1 x Paradigm Prestige 55C
8 x Paradigm CI Pro P65-R's
Sub 2 x Rythmik LVX12's
TV: LG 65B6
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I have some paradigm towers. IF you are going to have sub and don't plan on listening to 2.0 (not 2.1), I'm not sure if larger towers are going to be any better. Mainly because the primary difference between the 95 and 75; 45 and 55 is primarily the low end.

So in that case, I got the 75's and I wish I would have gotten bookshelfs and used the extra money on a higher quality center (the signature vs the prestige) OR put the extra money in the sub.

If you plan on listening to 2.0 stereo with no sub then I think the 85 and 95 would be worth it. You're basically paying for more bass and a bit more power.
From my perspective, having demoed the 85F and the 95F side-by-side, I think it goes beyond bass response. To me, the 95Fs sounded more open than the 85Fs.

My HT and the thrill of getting new equipment.
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post #13 of 44 Old 04-18-2017, 09:02 PM
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H
I feel my front are no match for the rest of my system and I got a great deal on the Paradigm Prestige 95F as fronts and Prestige 55C as Center. I found them for a great price of $4,525.

My Question are they too large for my room, should I buy the 85F & 45C instead.
Yes - that is a great price. No, they are not too large. No, stick with the 55C if you can! It's a fantastic center in my opinion, I'm very pleased with mine.

Although they are very good subs, I would not spend the money on the Paradigm subs; for the price of the 1000SW, that will get you (as one example) TWO SVS-SB13Us. Again, Paradigm makes great subs, but so do a lot of folks for a lot less $$$$. And SVS is not the only game in town on ID subs either.
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5.2.4 System....Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60; Power Distribution: Panamax M5400-PM;
Mains:
Paradigm 85F and 55C (Piano Black); Side Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III (Dusk); Amplification: D-Sonic M3-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w);
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Sony BDP S-470, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #14 of 44 Old 04-19-2017, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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From my perspective, having demoed the 85F and the 95F side-by-side, I think it goes beyond bass response. To me, the 95Fs sounded more open than the 85Fs.
I agree, I demoed them again this morning with my Interstellar Blu ray and the 95F definitely sounded was more open. I'll be using those for in my HT setup for movies and TV. For my music, I have a totally different setup.
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I agree, I demoed them again this morning with my Interstellar Blu ray and the 95F definitely sounded was more open. I'll be using those for in my HT setup for movies and TV. For my music, I have a totally different setup.
Let us know how they sound in your home!

Geoff A. J., California
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I agree, I demoed them again this morning with my Interstellar Blu ray and the 95F definitely sounded was more open. I'll be using those for in my HT setup for movies and TV. For my music, I have a totally different setup.
I use the same setup for music, and demoed them only with music. I'm happy with it as I don't have the budget for another setup.

My HT and the thrill of getting new equipment.
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post #17 of 44 Old 04-20-2017, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Great, now for the next step of the upgrade.

One more Q, Should I replace my Onkyo TX-NR3030 with Anthem MRX 1120 OR Denon AVR-X6300 to power the Paradigm 95F & 55C speakers.
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Great, now for the next step of the upgrade.

One more Q, Should I replace my Onkyo TX-NR3030 with Anthem MRX 1120 OR Denon AVR-X6300 to power the Paradigm 95F & 55C speakers.
Your current receiver at 135 watts should have more than enough power.

I'd spend money on a matching center.

Those VERY expensive AVRs have 140.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #19 of 44 Old 04-20-2017, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Your current receiver at 135 watts should have more than enough power.

I'd spend money on a matching center.

Those VERY expensive AVRs have 140.
Why, I thought the C/L/R 2500 is a great Center Speaker. I reckon the problem is with my Floorstanding 2006. Below are the specs of my Center speaker in case you were not aware of.


Amplification Type passive, active bass driver
Crossover Channel Qty 3-way
Frequency Response 21 - 30000 Hz
Nominal Impedance 4 Ohm
Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 300 Watt
Audio Amplifier integrated
Active Bass Driver Amplifier Power 150 Watt
Magnetic Shield Yes
Connectivity Technology wired
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I went and got the entire prestige line for a in home demo. The 95f package

I had bp7001sc, clr3000, 4 bpvx and sm450 as my atmos speakers. The sm450 are about 12' up pointed down a mlp. Powered by adcom 7805 with a onkyo 3010. Now it's a Yamaha 3060. Subs are a pair of rythmik fv15hp.

The paradigm were beautiful. The sound was very good. Great detail and decent bass for a passive speaker. Center channel and surrounds were ok. Never was impressed. Did some music listening and again was impressed. My dealer even came buy to help because He just wanted me to be happy. We spent about 3 hours. Ran rew. A bunch of eq. Than we put clr3000 back in with bp7001sc. Wow was like night and day. Way richer sound. Mids were back. Bass was tight and all around us. Tweeters were just right. We put entire definitive system back together. Which he helped. He is a great guy. Thanks Mitch!

He dropped definitive from his store in 2010 when 8080 came out. Newer stuff just isn't the same.

It helped him realize how great the definitive use to be. Reason why bp7000sc were ranked in top 30 speakers ever built. Bp7001 are almost the same. Very close.

So what I'm advising is upgrade your 2006tl. Get bp7002 to match clr2500. Or better yet get bp7000 with clr3000. Your surrounds are great. Maybe get bpvx all the way around. Your bpvx/p are very rare. Sell em and bpx. Than 4 bpvx won't cost a thing. Than you need to get surrounds up higher on the wall. Also on different plains so they don't cancel each other out. Just so close together or I wouldn't recommend that. In that room you could probably get away with just 2 surrounds.

Now on bass... very fun part. Supercube 1 is very good sub. Same sub and amp in each one of my 7001sc. I've also owned sc1. Was able to produce output down to 16hz in room. Was great on output. I still have numbers written down in my home theater file. Lol. 101db @20hz. 112@40. 116@80. That was at mlp 12' from sub in a 16'x14'12' room. So great little sub. Produced about same numbers as pb2000 that I still own. Pb2000 102@20. 110@40. 115@80. Pb1000 was tested in my room as well. Was 92db@20. 105@40. 106@80. Wasn't a good sub at all.

If you get bp7000sc probably won't need a sub. Or you would have to get two pb16 to get better.

So for a music only system paradigm were nice. Just not better in any way. Save your money and stay definitive. Remember also which many have forgotten. Bp7000 were $5500 a pair new. Bp7001sc were $4000 new.

Also your onkyo is very good and way better than that anthem. Lol not even close. Don't get tricked into a anthem like many have.

Also if you want to sell any of your gear. I'll buy it. You have great stuff!!! Just upgrade those 2006tl
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post #21 of 44 Old 04-20-2017, 06:07 PM
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Wanted to also ask why do you feel like you need to switch or upgrade? Is it bass? Detail? Probably the klipsch firing upward on top of your speakers aren't going to work great. Put a pair up high on front wall and up high on back wall. It will have almost the exact effect as overhead speakers. You'll be able to use better speakers though. That's what I'm doing with my sm450 bookshelf speakers. Much better than any definitive inwall
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post #22 of 44 Old 04-20-2017, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by greatestboss View Post
Great, now for the next step of the upgrade.

One more Q, Should I replace my Onkyo TX-NR3030 with Anthem MRX 1120 OR Denon AVR-X6300 to power the Paradigm 95F & 55C speakers.
SURE! If you've got the $$$ and drive to do so!

Not for power reasons, but for ARC - an arguably better EQ system than the Onkyo. BUT - is it worth that much money to YOU??? Only you can be the judge!

Get one with a generous return policy, try it out, and compare, see what you think. Lot of effort, but might be worth it for you.

5.2.4 System....Display: Sony XBR-65X930D; Processing: Anthem AVM60; Power Distribution: Panamax M5400-PM;
Mains:
Paradigm 85F and 55C (Piano Black); Side Surrounds: Totem Acoustic Tribe III (Dusk); Amplification: D-Sonic M3-2800-7 (7ch. x 400w);
ATMOS:
Definitive Technology DI8R; Amplification: Class D Audio SDS-470C (4ch. x 300w)
Subwoofers:
2 x SVS-SB13Ultras; Media: Oppo UDP-203, Sony BDP S-470, Pioneer CLD-59
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post #23 of 44 Old 04-21-2017, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
I went and got the entire prestige line for a in home demo. The 95f package

I had bp7001sc, clr3000, 4 bpvx and sm450 as my atmos speakers. The sm450 are about 12' up pointed down a mlp. Powered by adcom 7805 with a onkyo 3010. Now it's a Yamaha 3060. Subs are a pair of rythmik fv15hp.

The paradigm were beautiful. The sound was very good. Great detail and decent bass for a passive speaker. Center channel and surrounds were ok. Never was impressed. Did some music listening and again was impressed. My dealer even came buy to help because He just wanted me to be happy. We spent about 3 hours. Ran rew. A bunch of eq. Than we put clr3000 back in with bp7001sc. Wow was like night and day. Way richer sound. Mids were back. Bass was tight and all around us. Tweeters were just right. We put entire definitive system back together. Which he helped. He is a great guy. Thanks Mitch!

He dropped definitive from his store in 2010 when 8080 came out. Newer stuff just isn't the same.

It helped him realize how great the definitive use to be. Reason why bp7000sc were ranked in top 30 speakers ever built. Bp7001 are almost the same. Very close.

So what I'm advising is upgrade your 2006tl. Get bp7002 to match clr2500. Or better yet get bp7000 with clr3000. Your surrounds are great. Maybe get bpvx all the way around. Your bpvx/p are very rare. Sell em and bpx. Than 4 bpvx won't cost a thing. Than you need to get surrounds up higher on the wall. Also on different plains so they don't cancel each other out. Just so close together or I wouldn't recommend that. In that room you could probably get away with just 2 surrounds.

Now on bass... very fun part. Supercube 1 is very good sub. Same sub and amp in each one of my 7001sc. I've also owned sc1. Was able to produce output down to 16hz in room. Was great on output. I still have numbers written down in my home theater file. Lol. 101db @20hz. 112@40. 116@80. That was at mlp 12' from sub in a 16'x14'12' room. So great little sub. Produced about same numbers as pb2000 that I still own. Pb2000 102@20. 110@40. 115@80. Pb1000 was tested in my room as well. Was 92db@20. 105@40. 106@80. Wasn't a good sub at all.

If you get bp7000sc probably won't need a sub. Or you would have to get two pb16 to get better.

So for a music only system paradigm were nice. Just not better in any way. Save your money and stay definitive. Remember also which many have forgotten. Bp7000 were $5500 a pair new. Bp7001sc were $4000 new.

Also your onkyo is very good and way better than that anthem. Lol not even close. Don't get tricked into a anthem like many have.

Also if you want to sell any of your gear. I'll buy it. You have great stuff!!! Just upgrade those 2006tl
Timothy, It is such a relief to have read your post. It seems I've just needed the assurance from someone that I already have a good setup that requires a bit of tweaking to make it very good.

Yes I think it is too much bass that I feel is ruining my enjoyment, it is that booming humming sound from too many powered speakers that is bothering me, remember the fronts, center and BPVX/P are all powered speakers + SuperCube 1.

In my latest AccuEQ Room Calibration, I opted to choose one sub instead of two subs although the two fronts speakers are connected with a Y and input in Sub 2 in the receiver. The following are the reading I got:

Speaker Impedance 6 ohms
Front Speaker Type: Normal
Height 1 & 2 : Dolby enabled back & front
Speaker Configuration:

Subwoofer 1 Ch
Front 150Hz
Center 120Hz
Surround 150Hz
Back 120Hz
Back ch 2ch
Height 150Hz
Height 60Hz
LPF of LFE 80Hz
Subwoofer Phase 0

As for speaker distance

Front Left: 11.1ft
Center 12.0ft
Front Right 1.2ft
Surround Right 8.0ft
Surround left 8.0ft
Back Right 5.0ft
Back Left 5.6ft
Subwoofer 1 15.6ft
Height 1 left 11.8ft
Height 1 Right 12.0ft
Height 2 Right 8.7ft
height 2 Left 8.6ft

Level Calibration

Front Left 0.0dB
Front Right -1.0dB
Center -1.5dB
Surround Right -5.5db
Surround Left -5.0dB
Back Right -2.5dB
Back Left -3.5dB
Subwoofer +7.0dB
Height 1 Left +3.5dB
Height 1 Right +3.0dB
Height 2 Left +3.0dB
Height 2 Right +3.0dB

I had to turn the knob on the back of all front, center and surround from 3 o'clock to 0. It was too much bass.

I would definitely consider upgrading my front with bp7000 with clr3000 if I can manage to find them or at least the bp7000 if my clr2500 can match the bp7000 in terms of tonality.

I doubt you can find new ones out there. Something else you mentioned that my bpvx/p are very rare but you suggested selling them, how come, they are probably one of the best surround in terms of value for money.

And what did you mean to place my rear surround on a different plains so they won't cancel each other. Would placing them on the wall at a higher level be just enough.

Finally coming back to the SuperCube 1, you are one of the few who had positive words on this subwoofer, almost everybody else recommended discarding it and replacing it with one or two better subs. I don't know if I need two in a room the size of mine.

As you've mentioned the priority is to replace the bp2006 and if I manage to find the bp7000 then no need for another sub. I remember when I bought the SuperCube 1, it was the second top ranked subwoofer Definitive had right behind the reference subwoofer.
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post #24 of 44 Old 04-21-2017, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
SURE! If you've got the $$$ and drive to do so!

Not for power reasons, but for ARC - an arguably better EQ system than the Onkyo. BUT - is it worth that much money to YOU??? Only you can be the judge!

Get one with a generous return policy, try it out, and compare, see what you think. Lot of effort, but might be worth it for you.
No it's not worth the extra $$$ for me. The Onkyo is more than capable beast.
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post #25 of 44 Old 04-21-2017, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by greatestboss View Post
Why, I thought the C/L/R 2500 is a great Center Speaker. I reckon the problem is with my Floorstanding 2006. Below are the specs of my Center speaker in case you were not aware of.


Amplification Type passive, active bass driver
Crossover Channel Qty 3-way
Frequency Response 21 - 30000 Hz
Nominal Impedance 4 Ohm
Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 300 Watt
Audio Amplifier integrated
Active Bass Driver Amplifier Power 150 Watt
Magnetic Shield Yes
Connectivity Technology wired
If I was paying a king's ransom for my left and right speakers I would want the center to be timbre matched to be honest.

Even visually matched would seem important at those price points.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #26 of 44 Old 04-21-2017, 08:14 AM
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Always happy to help when I can.

The bpvx/p are worth a lot of money on used market. Probably $650-800 a pair. Actually bpvx are better. Bpvx have four 6.5" mid/bass and same bigger 1" tweeters as bp7000 and 7001. I know all definitive have 1" tweets but some have a motor structure that's much bigger. The bpvx is one of them. It's a 22oz tweet. All others share the 10oz 1" tweeters. Now bpvxp has that same tweeter but here is the downside of that speaker. It has 2 6.5" mids and 2 6.5" bass drivers powered by a 80 watt amp. The 2 bass drivers with that lower power never can do that speaker justice at high reference volume. So bpvx/p just isn't as good loud but is just as good at lower volume as bpvx. So if it were me I'd get bpvx at $400-500 a pair.

Next don't use y adapter in 2006tl. Bass is boomy from those ported 8" drivers. Set them up as a mid bass module. So set xover on onkyo to 80hz. Just run speaker wire to them. The sub lpf is anything below 150hz. So your 2006tl will play 80-150hz mid bass. It actually sound very good. Sub volume you can adjust to your liking on towers.

Center ch almost always sound better below tv but that's my preference to mount tv on wall than clr2500 below. That clr2500 has port on the back and needs room to breathe. Same thing with that speaker no rca cable just wire. Set to 80hz as well. Or maybe 60hz if you feel voices aren't deep enough. Than turn sub gain again to your liking.
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post #27 of 44 Old 04-21-2017, 08:24 AM
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Forgot all your questions. Lol

Supercube is most likely in a bad spot up front. Put it near you in that back right. Corner load it if you need more bass. Only you know that from room experience. Might need to move it.

Bp7000 come up on eBay or even avs. I've seen pairs go for $1500-2500 a pair. Which is very cheap for towers that good. Remember each tower has the 1800 watt reference sub built into it.

Now the plain issue. Speakers firing into each other will cancel each out. In that room I'd put bpvx as my side surrounds. Roughly 4-5" above heads. Than get sm450 for surround backs. Directional speakers are also better for surround backs.

Crossovers I'd set. Would be 80hz on everything but klipsch. They would be 150hz. I would also mount those Dolby speakers up on the wall.

Hope this helps and I got everything. Good luck.
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post #28 of 44 Old 04-21-2017, 08:53 AM
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Also I know of a avs member selling many definitive.

Has bp2000. Awesome speaker with 15" subs
Bp7002
Bp10b
Bp20
7006

He just sold bp30 and bp2002tl

What he's done and so have I is buy them used on Craigslist when the deal is right. Than fix and sell. Remember definitive has all these parts and you can make them look new with socks and caps.

I just bought of a gentleman in San Francisco bp2002tl, clr2000 and bpx off Craigslist for $500. Sold bpx for $400 on eBay. All were mint as well. So now I have great speakers for a bedroom system for $100. Lol

That same guy bought kef r900 towers and matching center and surrounds. He texted me 2 weeks after the deal and said he returned the kef and was wondering if I'd sell definitive back. I felt bad but declined to sell back. I did help him find clr3000 and bp3000tl set on Craigslist though for $800. Now he's added 4 bpvx and a onkyo rz3100. I made a really good friend for life. We talk almost every day now. Bp3000tl might be best speaker definitive ever made as well. 18" subs really are incredible in those.

For a home theater definitive is almost unmatched for it capability to impress. For music it's still very good but others like kef, paradigm, canton, focal or bowers can be better. To me I use my system for tv or movies mostly. Occasionally I play some music. I've never had a complaint of what my 7001 and rythmiks do for music either.

Also make sure your using good speaker wire and connections.
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post #29 of 44 Old 04-21-2017, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
If I was paying a king's ransom for my left and right speakers I would want the center to be timbre matched to be honest.

Even visually matched would seem important at those price points.
I agree and that is why the bp2006 is a major concern.
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post #30 of 44 Old 04-21-2017, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Always happy to help when I can.

The bpvx/p are worth a lot of money on used market. Probably $650-800 a pair. Actually bpvx are better. Bpvx have four 6.5" mid/bass and same bigger 1" tweeters as bp7000 and 7001. I know all definitive have 1" tweets but some have a motor structure that's much bigger. The bpvx is one of them. It's a 22oz tweet. All others share the 10oz 1" tweeters. Now bpvxp has that same tweeter but here is the downside of that speaker. It has 2 6.5" mids and 2 6.5" bass drivers powered by a 80 watt amp. The 2 bass drivers with that lower power never can do that speaker justice at high reference volume. So bpvx/p just isn't as good loud but is just as good at lower volume as bpvx. So if it were me I'd get bpvx at $400-500 a pair.

Next don't use y adapter in 2006tl. Bass is boomy from those ported 8" drivers. Set them up as a mid bass module. So set xover on onkyo to 80hz. Just run speaker wire to them. The sub lpf is anything below 150hz. So your 2006tl will play 80-150hz mid bass. It actually sound very good. Sub volume you can adjust to your liking on towers.

Center ch almost always sound better below tv but that's my preference to mount tv on wall than clr2500 below. That clr2500 has port on the back and needs room to breathe. Same thing with that speaker no rca cable just wire. Set to 80hz as well. Or maybe 60hz if you feel voices aren't deep enough. Than turn sub gain again to your liking.
Wow loads of info that I will have to experiment with. But it is great to know that I can do without the Y adapter and RCA cables on my 2006tl as well as the RCA on my clr2500. Would still be a function for the knobs on the back then?

I home the boomy bass disappears then. I will definitely move the Sub to the back corner as you've suggested and see how things improve.
As for the CLR position, I have left at least enough room to breathe but it is not an option for me to move it right now and hang the Plasma. If you notice closely it is tilted at an angle towards the listening position.

I'd love to upgrade to the BP7000 and I have started searching for some, however as I'm currently working overseas and this system is set abroad, I'll need ones with 250V. I won't be back home to NY anytime soon.

i will try to follow the suggestions on the Klipsch and hang them but I always thought of the Atmos technology as either firing downwards from the ceiling or firing upwards for a sound reflection, i dunno if placing them high on the wall would give a similar impact. By the way they are very capable speakers.

Meanwhile until I sell the BPVX/P and find BPVX, should i disconnect them from electricity and use only speaker wire.

One thing I forgot to mention, I have another complete set of DT Speakers still in their original Packaging ( Mythos One/ Pair, Mythos Three as Central and Mythos Gem as Surround). I bought them when they first came out. Are they of any use or any good? I even bought them with a Denon 4306 at the time and they are still new. Any suggestions?

Again I fully appreciate all the help and advice.
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