best [loud] loudspeaker recommendations for 2000 cu. ft room? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 30 Old 04-19-2017, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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best [loud] loudspeaker recommendations for 2000 cu. ft room?

i'm looking for recommendations for seriously loud towers for a moderate sized room. i'm running a pair of 1989 jbl l100t3's and they can crank which i enjoy, but between the foam re-builds, replacement tweeter & mid-ranges they've had patched into them over the years they just don't sound that good anymore. i'm wondering if there's anything on the market that can get as loud as these do but still have some kind of refinement/neutral sound--these jbl's are rather fatiguing. also, these jbl's are very wide (15") and won't fit that well into the new room they're moving to, so something narrower would be ideal--seems like almost any tower i look at will be an improvement in this regard.

i was thinking of trying a pair of aperion verus towers but they're 3 months back ordered and honestly i'm not sure if they'll crank as loud as i'd like. other brands i've considered are svs, goldenear, elac, and ascend acoustics. for a modest budget of ~$3k or so am i going to find something like this? i'm starting to wonder if i need to look at something like what jtr offers to fulfill my wants. my father has a pair of paradigm signature s8's and while they sound amazing, i don't think they'll crank as loud as i'd like them to--nor do i really want to drop $6k for a pair of used speakers.

and no i'm not trying to give myself tinnitus, but i can't be the only one that recognizes that a lot of speakers these days just can't turn up that loud, and that movie theaters are for the most part lacking sans (some) imax features--at least audibly.

any recommendations that might work for me are very welcome, thanks for the read.

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post #2 of 30 Old 04-19-2017, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
i'm looking for recommendations for seriously loud towers for a moderate sized room. i'm running a pair of 1989 jbl l100t3's and they can crank which i enjoy, but between the foam re-builds, replacement tweeter & mid-ranges they've had patched into them over the years they just don't sound that good anymore. i'm wondering if there's anything on the market that can get as loud as these do but still have some kind of refinement/neutral sound--these jbl's are rather fatiguing. also, these jbl's are very wide (15") and won't fit that well into the new room they're moving to, so something narrower would be ideal--seems like almost any tower i look at will be an improvement in this regard.



i was thinking of trying a pair of aperion verus towers but they're 3 months back ordered and honestly i'm not sure if they'll crank as loud as i'd like. other brands i've considered are svs, goldenear, elac, and ascend acoustics. for a modest budget of ~$3k or so am i going to find something like this? i'm starting to wonder if i need to look at something like what jtr offers to fulfill my wants. my father has a pair of paradigm signature s8's and while they sound amazing, i don't think they'll crank as loud as i'd like them to--nor do i really want to drop $6k for a pair of used speakers.



and no i'm not trying to give myself tinnitus, but i can't be the only one that recognizes that a lot of speakers these days just can't turn up that loud, and that movie theaters are for the most part lacking sans (some) imax features--at least audibly.



any recommendations that might work for me are very welcome, thanks for the read.


I am guessing based on the speakers you are considering you prefer a more neutral speaker? If that is not the case then I would recommend look at the PSA 210Ts or JTR 228HT.


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post #3 of 30 Old 04-19-2017, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
i'm looking for recommendations for seriously loud towers for a moderate sized room. i'm running a pair of 1989 jbl l100t3's and they can crank which i enjoy, but between the foam re-builds, replacement tweeter & mid-ranges they've had patched into them over the years they just don't sound that good anymore. i'm wondering if there's anything on the market that can get as loud as these do but still have some kind of refinement/neutral sound--these jbl's are rather fatiguing.
How far from your speakers will you be sitting? This actually has much more relevance to just how much sensitivity you really need for your speakers or not, than the overall room size which is more relevant to how much subwoofer oomph you need.

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post #4 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 06:08 AM
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Goldenear Triton 2+ are about $3500 and well worth it. They can play VERY loud and with the built in subs they are truly full range. They will rattle the windows in my 2000+ room ... when the wife's not home, of course .

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post #5 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post

and no i'm not trying to give myself tinnitus, but i can't be the only one that recognizes that a lot of speakers these days just can't turn up that loud, and that movie theaters are for the most part lacking sans (some) imax features--at least audibly.

any recommendations that might work for me are very welcome, thanks for the read.
I'm sure you're aware that Klipsch makes a product (or 2) that fits your description. I know people have a prejudice against Klipsch, but people do love their RF-7 II. If you can audition them, you may like them, they will definitely play loudly.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RF7...II-Cherry.html

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post #6 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba922 View Post
How far from your speakers will you be sitting? This actually has much more relevance to just how much sensitivity you really need for your speakers or not, than the overall room size which is more relevant to how much subwoofer oomph you need.
2 rows of seating, first is about 11' away, the second is about 15' away.

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post #7 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 02:09 PM
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2 rows of seating, first is about 11' away, the second is about 15' away.
Go with the previously mentioned PSA or JTR speakers or at least demo them.

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post #8 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 03:23 PM
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what is your definition of loud? what kind of amp/power you got?

usually speakers with large drivers and horns play the loudest...but in some cases louder isnt better as distortion usually always creeps in...

klipsch was my goto loud speaker back in the day...but the louder I played them, the more I got a headache.

some people nowadays just like their bass loud, so they focus on multiple large subs.
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post #9 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kini62 View Post
Go with the previously mentioned PSA or JTR speakers or at least demo them.
wow, i think the psa mtm-210t's are exactly what i'm looking for.

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post #10 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 04:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I am guessing based on the speakers you are considering you prefer a more neutral speaker? If that is not the case then I would recommend look at the PSA 210Ts or JTR 228HT.


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i know jtr makes incredible subwoofers, and i've seen others rave about their towers on here. from the limited research i just did it would seem that there's an equal amount of psa supporters too. the 210t's look like they're perfect for my application (was just told they're 3 weeks back ordered but they're willing to knock a few bucks off the price if i buy them right now), but torn between the two.

dollar for dollar which of the two offers more value do you think? i also like that they have surrounds to fill out the room with too (psa).

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post #11 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
i know jtr makes incredible subwoofers, and i've seen others rave about their towers on here. from the limited research i just did it would seem that there's an equal amount of psa supporters too. the 210t's look like they're perfect for my application (was just told they're 3 weeks back ordered but they're willing to knock a few bucks off the price if i buy them right now), but torn between the two.

dollar for dollar which of the two offers more value do you think? i also like that they have surrounds to fill out the room with too (psa).
IMO, dollar for dollar PSA speakers and subs offer the most bang. I have PSA speakers myself. Their 210T, 210 and 110 are all excellent
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post #12 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 04:58 PM
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Too soon?


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post #13 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
i know jtr makes incredible subwoofers, and i've seen others rave about their towers on here. from the limited research i just did it would seem that there's an equal amount of psa supporters too. the 210t's look like they're perfect for my application (was just told they're 3 weeks back ordered but they're willing to knock a few bucks off the price if i buy them right now), but torn between the two.

dollar for dollar which of the two offers more value do you think? i also like that they have surrounds to fill out the room with too (psa).
By the way, my room is almost the same as yours and I have the PSA MT 110s with a 210C and they blow me away. I can never imagine listening to them at reference levels. Just as point for you in case you wanted to save some money but if you want the tower look, then 210T is a good value as well.
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post #14 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 05:29 PM
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I dont understand why so many say they could never listen at reference level...if you dont need reference level speakers why buy them?

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post #15 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
By the way, my room is almost the same as yours and I have the PSA MT 110s with a 210C and they blow me away. I can never imagine listening to them at reference levels. Just as point for you in case you wanted to save some money but if you want the tower look, then 210T is a good value as well.
yeah the 110's look like the real value but the 210t's look nicer, dig deeper, and go louder. would rather have the extra overhead even if i don't end up really using it. the jbl's i have now go down to 30hz but i roll them off around 50hz and pass the work over to the subs anyway so no real change there. the price reduction because of the back-order status is also swaying me to grab the 210t's.

can you post a picture of your setup with the 110s?

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post #16 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
yeah the 110's look like the real value but the 210t's look nicer, dig deeper, and go louder. would rather have the extra overhead even if i don't end up really using it. the jbl's i have now go down to 30hz but i roll them off around 50hz and pass the work over to the subs anyway so no real change there. the price reduction because of the back-order status is also swaying me to grab the 210t's.

can you post a picture of your setup with the 110s?
Go for the PSA. 60 day trial period. Don't think you'll be sending them back anyway.

Once you get them, you might want to think about raising your crossover to at least the THX recommended 80hz. You might even experiment going even higher. You have a pair of really powerful subs. They're going to have more output in that range than the 210Ts.

I use a 120hz crossover and it sounds great.
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post #17 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
yeah the 110's look like the real value but the 210t's look nicer, dig deeper, and go louder. would rather have the extra overhead even if i don't end up really using it. the jbl's i have now go down to 30hz but i roll them off around 50hz and pass the work over to the subs anyway so no real change there. the price reduction because of the back-order status is also swaying me to grab the 210t's.

can you post a picture of your setup with the 110s?
Here you go, pic is a bit dark. When I spoke to Tom he suggested crossing over at 80hz but I only have one SVS PC12NSD versus your more powerful subs, so you can play around once you get them and see what sounds best. Plus Tom is fantastic to work with so he will gladly help you calibrate if you need it.
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post #18 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Here you go, pic is a bit dark. When I spoke to Tom he suggested crossing over at 80hz but I only have one SVS PC12NSD versus your more powerful subs, so you can play around once you get them and see what sounds best. Plus Tom is fantastic to work with so he will gladly help you calibrate if you need it.


nice!

yep tom is who i was speaking with through the chat on the website, very pleasant & knowledgeable. i just need to carpet my room and put up some baffle trim plates on the ceiling lights... little things. very ready to move out of the tiny temp space i have everything setup in right now into this room! but i seriously need a speaker upgrade haha.



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post #19 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
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nice!



yep tom is who i was speaking with through the chat on the website, very pleasant & knowledgeable. i just need to carpet my room and put up some baffle trim plates on the ceiling lights... little things. very ready to move out of the tiny temp space i have everything setup in right now into this room! but i seriously need a speaker upgrade haha.









Nice looking room. I am sure the 210s are going to rock that place. Good luck with your purchase and let me know if you would like any other info.


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post #20 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
I am guessing based on the speakers you are considering you prefer a more neutral speaker? If that is not the case then I would recommend look at the PSA 210Ts or JTR 228HT.


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+1 on those, they are know to play very loud

Quote:
Originally Posted by serith View Post
i'm looking for recommendations for seriously loud towers for a moderate sized room. i'm running a pair of 1989 jbl l100t3's and they can crank which i enjoy, but between the foam re-builds, replacement tweeter & mid-ranges they've had patched into them over the years they just don't sound that good anymore. i'm wondering if there's anything on the market that can get as loud as these do but still have some kind of refinement/neutral sound--these jbl's are rather fatiguing. also, these jbl's are very wide (15") and won't fit that well into the new room they're moving to, so something narrower would be ideal--seems like almost any tower i look at will be an improvement in this regard.

i was thinking of trying a pair of aperion verus towers but they're 3 months back ordered and honestly i'm not sure if they'll crank as loud as i'd like. other brands i've considered are svs, goldenear, elac, and ascend acoustics. for a modest budget of ~$3k or so am i going to find something like this? i'm starting to wonder if i need to look at something like what jtr offers to fulfill my wants. my father has a pair of paradigm signature s8's and while they sound amazing, i don't think they'll crank as loud as i'd like them to--nor do i really want to drop $6k for a pair of used speakers.

and no i'm not trying to give myself tinnitus, but i can't be the only one that recognizes that a lot of speakers these days just can't turn up that loud, and that movie theaters are for the most part lacking sans (some) imax features--at least audibly.

any recommendations that might work for me are very welcome, thanks for the read.

As a Aperion Verus Grand tower, I can attest that they will play loud.
But it sound you want very loud, as the poste quoted above yours, I think the PSA match with a good sub or two would be a better alternative.


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post #21 of 30 Old 04-20-2017, 07:08 PM
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I'm thinking it's a good match. Wow what a nice theater.
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post #22 of 30 Old 04-21-2017, 05:43 AM
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Here you go, pic is a bit dark. ...
Do those PSA's a favour mate... pull 'em all the way forward to the front edge of the entertainment unit. Overhang them slightly if you can.
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post #23 of 30 Old 04-21-2017, 07:32 AM
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Do those PSA's a favour mate... pull 'em all the way forward to the front edge of the entertainment unit. Overhang them slightly if you can.


Hmmm. I had heard they needed to closer to the wall. What is your reasoning? Should they pull in closer to each other as well. Happy to learn from your experience


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post #24 of 30 Old 04-21-2017, 09:35 AM
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Maybe the Behringer's if you don't mind ugly?

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post #25 of 30 Old 04-21-2017, 10:06 AM
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I've been hearing the QSC has a better tweeter vs PSA, give them a look as well
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post #26 of 30 Old 04-21-2017, 10:20 AM
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2 rows of seating, first is about 11' away, the second is about 15' away.
What I'd do is order a pair of the Ascend 340SE---if you decide that they're not loud enough for you, send them back and you'll be out maybe $100-150 in shipping costs.

HOWEVER, if you decide they're enough for you, you'd save a massive boatload of money (at least $1-2K/pair) compared to the PSA or JTR towers.

I think this is a very prudent calculated gamble.

People often overestimate how much "loudness" they really need when buying amplifiers and speakers. It's like buying a 500HP muscle car but then most of the time driving under 70mph when not sitting in rush hour traffic.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #27 of 30 Old 04-21-2017, 01:57 PM
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What I'd do is order a pair of the Ascend 340SE---if you decide that they're not loud enough for you, send them back and you'll be out maybe $100-150 in shipping costs.

HOWEVER, if you decide they're enough for you, you'd save a massive boatload of money (at least $1-2K/pair) compared to the PSA or JTR towers.

I think this is a very prudent calculated gamble.

People often overestimate how much "loudness" they really need when buying amplifiers and speakers. It's like buying a 500HP muscle car but then most of the time driving under 70mph when not sitting in rush hour traffic.
I think the OP has decided on the PSAs. Regardless, the 340s are not even close to the PSAs or JTRs. It's not just about volume. Almost any speaker can get loud, it's how they sound when played loud. The 340s lack the dynamics of true HE speakers.

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post #28 of 30 Old 04-21-2017, 02:03 PM
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very true, but I believe it was said he didnt listen that loud. and somehow I feel smaller sized horn might not sound as good as other designs. but hey, if you want loud, those are great choices.

my speakers at their loudest probably before distortion/clipping/etc...at 13 ft no sub. was plenty loud in huge 50x30 space
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Power: Marantz sr7008, NAD C 275Bee x 2, Video: Oppo 103, Samsung 75un6300
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post #29 of 30 Old Yesterday, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imureh View Post
Hmmm. I had heard they needed to closer to the wall. What is your reasoning? Should they pull in closer to each other as well. Happy to learn from your experience
You probably heard the recommendation for near-wall placement because it will give you a dose of bass reinforcement. But by placing them back from the front of the unit you're introducing an acoustically reflective surface between the speaker and the listening position.

If you look at the diagram on the bottom of page 9 here (.pdf), you can see how directivity of sound radiating from a speaker transitions with frequency. (A top view is shown, but you can visualise what it would be from side on.) High frequency/short wavelengths are very directional like a torchlight and at the other extreme, low bass/long frequencies are omni-directional.

So, at some point in the the mid frequencies, the sound will begin reflecting back up from the adjacent surface (slightly delayed) and recombining with the speaker's direct sound &/or the sound arrives at your ears from both "sources". This can adversely affect clarity, imaging, dialogue intelligibility and usually softens that nice, tactile upper bass/low mids "punch". Give moving the speakers all the way forward a try with some familiar program material (and don't forget to re-run your auto-setup routine).

Where you've got them laterally looks fine to me, and you'll still pick up some bass reinforcement from the side walls.

Mr @imagic has the right idea here. His centre channel is overhanging the front of the unit and his mains are well forward of adjacent surfaces.




(Sorry it's taken a while to respond; it's been a busy weekend.)
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post #30 of 30 Old Today, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
You probably heard the recommendation for near-wall placement because it will give you a dose of bass reinforcement. But by placing them back from the front of the unit you're introducing an acoustically reflective surface between the speaker and the listening position.



If you look at the diagram on the bottom of page 9 here (.pdf), you can see how directivity of sound radiating from a speaker transitions with frequency. (A top view is shown, but you can visualise what it would be from side on.) High frequency/short wavelengths are very directional like a torchlight and at the other extreme, low bass/long frequencies are omni-directional.



So, at some point in the the mid frequencies, the sound will begin reflecting back up from the adjacent surface (slightly delayed) and recombining with the speaker's direct sound &/or the sound arrives at your ears from both "sources". This can adversely affect clarity, imaging, dialogue intelligibility and usually softens that nice, tactile upper bass/low mids "punch". Give moving the speakers all the way forward a try with some familiar program material (and don't forget to re-run your auto-setup routine).



Where you've got them laterally looks fine to me, and you'll still pick up some bass reinforcement from the side walls.



Mr @imagic has the right idea here. His centre channel is overhanging the front of the unit and his mains are well forward of adjacent surfaces.










(Sorry it's taken a while to respond; it's been a busy weekend.)


Thanks for the explanation. Will give it a try and see how it sounds


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