Cast iron powder for filling speaker stands? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 10Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Cast iron powder for filling speaker stands?

I’m planning to buy a pair of Rogoz 4QB80 speaker stands (quadruple-support, with 8 mm thick steel plates, http://www.rogoz-audio.com/Products/...DIO-4QB80.html ).

The weight of each stand is about 25 kg (55 lb) and it can be increased up to about 40 kg (88 lb) with ballast. The stands maker recommends quartz sand as filling material. Yet I’m aware some other filling options, such as lead shot and fillers from Atacama (http://www.atacama-audio.co.uk/p/ata...d-inert-filler ) and Custom Design (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Custom-Desig.../dp/B00EYKPUJS ) –either alone or blended with sand–, are favored by users in this and other fórums.

What has been really new to me is reading about the alleged sonic benefits of cast iron powdered:
http://www.taoc.gr.jp/en/hst.html
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/taoc.htm
http://av2day.com/2015/03/taoc-speak...-a-difference/

Would anyone in this forum with experience on cast iron powder share his/her thoughts on it?

In closing, it has been also new to me finding this rule of thumb for proper speaker stand weight (quote): “In order for a loudspeaker tripod to work effectively, the mass of the stand should be at least 2.5 times the mass of the monitor which sits on it.” (Source: http://www.surrountec.com/lautsprecherstative.html ).

Many thanks in advance to you all for your input on these matters.

P.D.: I forgot to ask one more question; filling level of the speaker stand: completely filled or partially filled (1/2, 2/3, other?). Thanks again.

Last edited by A-mature-newbie; 05-19-2017 at 06:54 AM.
A-mature-newbie is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 06:47 AM
Member
 
Garry R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 93
No doubt the sonic benefits and fidelity will increase dramatically. The marketing guys always describe their products with the utmost honesty and sincerity.

Yamaha, Tannoy, & Polk
Garry R is offline  
post #3 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry R View Post
No doubt the sonic benefits and fidelity will increase dramatically. The marketing guys always describe their products with the utmost honesty and sincerity.
Garry R,

Since in this case the filling material is cast iron powder, which is sort of a scrap material (unless TAOC is referring to a chemical grade one, which I doubt), I am not sure about getting money via such claim is a driver here.

Anyway, I thank you for the irony, as it certainly put a smile in my face!
A-mature-newbie is offline  
 
post #4 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 07:13 AM
Member
 
Garry R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 93
As for your additional question on how much fill I would suspect since its apparently not specified you can adjust the amount to your own liking. Season to taste so to speak.

Yamaha, Tannoy, & Polk
Garry R is offline  
post #5 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 07:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
brianmlamb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 678
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 373 Post(s)
Liked: 164
cast iron is prone to rusting, any humidity that gets in the stands and you'd get a nice rusty filled mess. I've heard of many people using air rifle bb's as fill, or even sand.

My setup: Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 and center, Ascend HTM200SE surround, NHT atmos minis, dual Rythmik L12's, Pioneer SC-95, Minidsp DDRC-88BM, Rotel RMB1077, Samsung PN60F8500
brianmlamb is online now  
post #6 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 07:39 AM
Senior Member
 
godfatherip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 193 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-mature-newbie View Post
Garry R,

Since in this case the filling material is cast iron powder, which is sort of a scrap material (unless TAOC is referring to a chemical grade one, which I doubt), I am not sure about getting money via such claim is a driver here.
Well they sell their stands pre-filled and claim that their particular filling makes their stands special, which would presumably correspond to premium pricing for the stands. The fact that it is scrap metal means that it doesn't cost them much to put in this "premium fill."

I just filled my stands with BBs. Not as messy as sand or powder and they are high density so they add a lot of weight, which I think is the real goal. I'm not an audiophile though so maybe I'm missing out on the amazing benefits of cast iron powder.
Garry R likes this.
godfatherip is offline  
post #7 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 07:45 AM
Senior Member
 
AtlantaAllen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 215
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 42
I filled mine with lead shot, but would never do it again. Too heavy to move. I'm betting not many systems are good enough to make a noticeable audible difference.
AtlantaAllen is offline  
post #8 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by godfatherip View Post
Well they sell their stands pre-filled and claim that their particular filling makes their stands special, which would presumably correspond to premium pricing for the stands. The fact that it is scrap metal means that it doesn't cost them much to put in this "premium fill."

I just filled my stands with BBs. Not as messy as sand or powder and they are high density so they add a lot of weight, which I think is the real goal. I'm not an audiophile though so maybe I'm missing out on the amazing benefits of cast iron powder.
Yes, the TAOC stands come already filled with cast iron; but having 118 elements available in the Periodic Table to choose from, why then choosing prosaic Iron (come on!) rather than something more “audiophile” or “sexy”-sounding (like, say, Samarium) around which making much bolder marketing statements (à la arcane cable companies). For instance: “Our super-duper, Ultra-Fractal speaker stands come already filled with our propietary, Samarium-based filling material, which, by virtue of its trivalent cations and unique effect of the 4f orbitals, will stir your soul to empyreal level…and blah-blah-blah)”.

See what I mean?
Garry R likes this.
A-mature-newbie is offline  
post #9 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 09:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,393
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1844 Post(s)
Liked: 1229
I'd hold out for unobtanium.
Garry R likes this.
Dave in Green is online now  
post #10 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
I'd hold out for unobtanium.
You got it right, Dave in Green!

Owing to its Lennard-Jones Potential, the Unobtainium lowest energy arrangement describes a hexagonal close-packing, which explain its amazing aural properties. So powerful, in fact, that had (much missed) Wolverine had its Adamantium claws doped with a dash of Unobtainium, he would still be around!
A-mature-newbie is offline  
post #11 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 12:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1061 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlantaAllen View Post
I filled mine with lead shot, but would never do it again. Too heavy to move. I'm betting not many systems are good enough to make a noticeable audible difference.
That is correct. Stands get VERY heavy when filled. 10 or 20 pounds of lead shot and you will think your stands are bolted to the floor. I recommend you fill part way and them lift them to see how much they weigh. Filled to the top, you have some serious weight.

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"
Russ69 is offline  
post #12 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 12:36 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 10,218
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2121 Post(s)
Liked: 1689
Cast iron powder is a PITA to deal with and you'll have a mess if it ever leaks out. Rusts as has been said, thus can oxidize (rust) and essentially weld itself to the stand inside, making it virtually impossible to remove. Plus makes the inside of your stands look like a drain cleaner commercial. Any that dribbles out can stain the floor as well as potentially cause sores and such if it gets on/under your skin.

Sand works great but is also messy. Lead shot is cheap but dirty and potentially toxic. BB's would be my choice as well. Of course, for crystal-clear sound, there is always diamond dust or just small diamonds...

FWIWFM - Don
shivaji likes this.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #13 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
Cast iron powder is a PITA to deal with and you'll have a mess if it ever leaks out. Rusts as has been said, thus can oxidize (rust) and essentially weld itself to the stand inside, making it virtually impossible to remove. Plus makes the inside of your stands look like a drain cleaner commercial. Any that dribbles out can stain the floor as well as potentially cause sores and such if it gets on/under your skin.

Sand works great but is also messy. Lead shot is cheap but dirty and potentially toxic. BB's would be my choice as well. Of course, for crystal-clear sound, there is always diamond dust or just small diamonds...

FWIWFM - Don
DonH50,

Does BB's stand for (steel) Ball Bearings? If so, what mesh size are we talking about?

Should I expect different filling metallic material (i.e. steel, lead, cast iron, Atabites, etc.) displaying "ringing" of different sonic signature (presumably, some more/less annoying to the ear)?

Thank you.
A-mature-newbie is offline  
post #14 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 01:36 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 10,218
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2121 Post(s)
Liked: 1689
BB's for a BB gun e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Daisy-Outdoor.../dp/B00419J4X0 They come in copper and zinc plated versions. I suppose ball bearings would work too.

I wouldn't expect any sonic signature but you are welcome to try different materials to see what sounds best to you. IMO it's mostly just dead weight to keep the stand stable though I suppose the tube could introduce some sort of ringing in response to the sound waves and/or vibration from the speaker (via direct mechanical coupling). I would not buy that the material used to fill the tube will significantly (audibly) affect the sound without proof. If you are worried about damping you could fill it with modeling clay.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #15 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post
BB's for a BB gun e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Daisy-Outdoor.../dp/B00419J4X0 They come in copper and zinc plated versions. I suppose ball bearings would work too.

I wouldn't expect any sonic signature but you are welcome to try different materials to see what sounds best to you. IMO it's mostly just dead weight to keep the stand stable though I suppose the tube could introduce some sort of ringing in response to the sound waves and/or vibration from the speaker (via direct mechanical coupling). I would not buy that the material used to fill the tube will significantly (audibly) affect the sound without proof. If you are worried about damping you could fill it with modeling clay.
Don,

Thanks for the clarification on the BB's!

I realize that BB's and Atacama Atabites are similar material-wise; only the latter in "flake" version.
A-mature-newbie is offline  
post #16 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 02:41 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1061 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-mature-newbie View Post
DonH50, Does BB's stand for (steel) Ball Bearings? If so, what mesh size are we talking about?...
A BB is a .177 dia lead or copper coated steel ball, typically.
shivaji likes this.

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"

Last edited by Russ69; 05-19-2017 at 02:49 PM.
Russ69 is offline  
post #17 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 02:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 1,994
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 960 Post(s)
Liked: 1114
You can also use depleted uranium

It is a great material to have around to load into shotgun shells to fend off zombies.
18Hurts is online now  
post #18 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 02:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1061 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
You can also use depleted uranium

It is a great material to have around to load into shotgun shells to fend off zombies.
Tungsten or bismuth both heavier than lead and no radiation.

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"
Russ69 is offline  
post #19 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 03:07 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DonH50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Monument CO
Posts: 10,218
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2121 Post(s)
Liked: 1689
But, but, but... Don't you want your stands to give off a nice warm glow?

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
DonH50 is offline  
post #20 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
A BB is a .177 dia lead or copper coated steel ball, typically.
Russ,

Many thanks for the explanation. I understand the 0.177 dia you mention translates into 4.5 mm, approx., right?

Would you think sizes < 4.5 mm would be beneficial on sonic grounds? I mean, since smaller metal balls will lead to lower void space in the filled stand's columns (i.e. denser packing) perhaps that would be conducive to even lower resonance of the stand?
A-mature-newbie is offline  
post #21 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 03:21 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1061 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-mature-newbie View Post
Russ,
Many thanks for the explanation. I understand the 0.177 dia you mention translates into 4.5 mm, approx., right? Would you think sizes < 4.5 mm would be beneficial on sonic grounds? I mean, since smaller metal balls will lead to lower void space in the filled stand's columns (i.e. denser packing) perhaps that would be conducive to even lower resonance of the stand?
Lead will have a damping effect but for practical purposes just go down to Big 5 and buy a couple of bags of no. 8 shot and you are all set. 4.5mm...yeah I guess but we are 'mericans here so 4.5mm is .177 or BB shot. Foot pounds and all, none of that Euro newton meters stuff, I know what a foot pound is, what the heck is a newton?

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"
Russ69 is offline  
post #22 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
Lead will have a damping effect but for practical purposes just go down to Big 5 and buy a couple of bags of no. 8 shot and you are all set. 4.5mm...yeah I guess but we are 'mericans here so 4.5mm is .177 or BB shot. Foot pounds and all, none of that Euro newton meters stuff, I know what a foot pound is, what the heck is a newton?
Hahaha!

Russ, if you are unclear with what a newton is, chances are a pascal will sound kind of mysterious to you, too. An old joke on newtons and pascals:

All the physicists are playing hide and seek. Einstein is the ‘den’ and stands against the wall with his eyes closed and counts till 100 to enable all the physicists to run and hide. At the count of 100 Einstein turns around and finds Newton standing there.
He screams, “Newton, you are out!” Newton says, “No, I ‘m not!”
Einstein says, “Yes, you are. I can see you here in front of me”.
Newton says, “I’m not out. Pascal is.”
Einstein is a bit confused and starts to scratch his head and beard.
Newton says “Here, Let me explain”
He draws a square one meter by one meter on the floor and stands in the middle of it and says,
“Newton per meter square is a Pascal, so it’s Pascal who’s out not me”
A-mature-newbie is offline  
post #23 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 04:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1061 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-mature-newbie View Post
...“Newton per meter square is a Pascal, so it’s Pascal who’s out not me”
You got to be one serious geek for that joke (at least in the states if you are 50 years old or more).

Oh crap I see you are from Madrid. No Big 5 is my guess. No matter, I think you guys still use shot gauge, so go down to your firearms supply house and get a couple of bags of no. 8 shot. You know how shotgun gauges came about (different than shot gauges)? It's the number of balls of lead that can go into a tube in a single layer and equal one ounce. So a 12 gauge will have twelve round lead pellets to fill a tube. A 20 gauge will have 20 smaller pellets and so on.

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"

Last edited by Russ69; 05-19-2017 at 04:28 PM.
Russ69 is offline  
post #24 of 36 Old 05-19-2017, 11:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ69 View Post
You got to be one serious geek for that joke (at least in the states if you are 50 years old or more).

Oh crap I see you are from Madrid. No Big 5 is my guess. No matter, I think you guys still use shot gauge, so go down to your firearms supply house and get a couple of bags of no. 8 shot. You know how shotgun gauges came about (different than shot gauges)? It's the number of balls of lead that can go into a tube in a single layer and equal one ounce. So a 12 gauge will have twelve round lead pellets to fill a tube. A 20 gauge will have 20 smaller pellets and so on.
Russ, a visit to my public profile will show you that I am, indeed, over 50 (as you can see, no shame in disclosing my age).

At present, I live in Madrid, but I studied in the U.S. I'm a science/engineering guy, which doesn't make me a geek automatically (the same way that a '69' suffix in someone's forum ID does not automatically make that person a practicioner of the soixante-neuf. ).

Your explanation on shot gauge is most clear. Yet some mismatch, number-wise, might remain between American and European gauges in some cases. For instance, what for Americans seems to be gauge 11, would be gauge 12 for Europeans, at least according to the content of this table: http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm .
A-mature-newbie is offline  
post #25 of 36 Old 05-20-2017, 09:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1061 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-mature-newbie View Post
...At present, I live in Madrid, but I studied in the U.S. I'm a science/engineering guy, which doesn't make me a geek automatically...
Having made my living as an engineer (I'm retired), it doesn't automatically make you a geek but you are well on your way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-mature-newbie View Post
(the same way that a '69' suffix in someone's forum ID does not automatically make that person a practicioner of the soixante-neuf. ).
That is my racing number, you perv.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-mature-newbie View Post
Your explanation on shot gauge is most clear. Yet some mismatch, number-wise, might remain between American and European gauges in some cases. For instance, what for Americans seems to be gauge 11, would be gauge 12 for Europeans, at least according to the content of this table: http://www.hallowellco.com/shot_size_chart.htm .
My guess would be the USA manufactures more shotgun shells than any other nation so naturally we win the gauge war, lol. Your loudspeakers wont know the difference though. But as I said fill them part way first, they get seriously heavy fast.

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"
Russ69 is offline  
post #26 of 36 Old 05-20-2017, 12:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bluewizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 3,856
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1890 Post(s)
Liked: 1178
The best and most economical Filler is Kiln Dried Sand, available at most building supply stores. It is important that it is DRY sand.

The drawback to sand is that it can contain very fine power. If your stands are not 100% seal on the bottom or sides, sand dust can leak out. Also, there is a slim chance that the Sand will act Hydophilic, that is the sand will draw water out of the air. One potential solution to both the Hydrophilic aspect and the Dust, it to place smaller amounts of sand into Zip-Lock bags, and drop the bag into the stands until it is full or until it reaches the weight you desire.

The next step up is Aquarium Gravel. Very fine but not dusty. A bit more expensive but far less than the Atacama fillers. Aquarium Gravel is also pH neutral.

You can get all kinds of Aquarium Gravel in many bright colors, but the cheapest is probably straight forward fine rock gravel -

https://www.walmart.com/search/?query=aquarium%20gravel

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mountain-...-Pets/10449968

Most Walmart Store have basic Aquarium Gravel in stock in the store in Pet Supplies. And of course most general Pet Supply stores will have Aquarium Gravel.

As to lead, keep in mind that lead is toxic. It might be cheap enough, but in the future, much like asbestos, you are going to have a hard time getting rid of the lead. Even BB's are just copper coated lead, so no real advantage there. Plus, don't expect 50 pounds of BB's to be cheap. Every year they become more strict about Lead, soon fishing weights and bullets/shot will no longer be lead. I foresee a time in the future where 50 to 100 pounds of lead is going to be very difficult to get rid of.

Yes, you can probably use small Ball Bearings, but don't expect 50 pounds of those to be cheap.

Last alternative, if you know someone who works in a Metal Shop where they are punching holes in metal all day, you might be able to buy those Punch Outs by weight for the price of scrap steel.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 05-20-2017 at 01:05 PM.
bluewizard is online now  
post #27 of 36 Old 05-20-2017, 01:20 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 98
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Also, there is a slim chance that the Sand will act Hydophilic, that is the sand will draw water out of the air.
Of course you meant Hygroscopic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
As to lead, keep in mind that lead is toxic.
Only if ingested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
Yes, you can probably use small Ball Bearings, but don't expect 50 pounds of those to be cheap.
Steel shot blasting media.

Pix of grit sizes.

$120.00 USD for fifty (50) pounds. A small price to pay for increased sonic fidelity wouldn't you say.
sam_adams is offline  
post #28 of 36 Old 05-20-2017, 04:40 PM
Senior Member
 
JonfromCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Council Bluffs Iowa
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 94 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-mature-newbie View Post
I’m planning to buy a pair of Rogoz 4QB80 speaker stands (quadruple-support, with 8 mm thick steel plates, http://www.rogoz-audio.com/Products/...DIO-4QB80.html ).

The weight of each stand is about 25 kg (55 lb) and it can be increased up to about 40 kg (88 lb) with ballast. The stands maker recommends quartz sand as filling material. Yet I’m aware some other filling options, such as lead shot and fillers from Atacama (http://www.atacama-audio.co.uk/p/ata...d-inert-filler ) and Custom Design (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Custom-Desig.../dp/B00EYKPUJS ) –either alone or blended with sand–, are favored by users in this and other fórums.

What has been really new to me is reading about the alleged sonic benefits of cast iron powdered:
http://www.taoc.gr.jp/en/hst.html
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/taoc.htm
http://av2day.com/2015/03/taoc-speak...-a-difference/

Would anyone in this forum with experience on cast iron powder share his/her thoughts on it?

In closing, it has been also new to me finding this rule of thumb for proper speaker stand weight (quote): “In order for a loudspeaker tripod to work effectively, the mass of the stand should be at least 2.5 times the mass of the monitor which sits on it.” (Source: http://www.surrountec.com/lautsprecherstative.html ).

Many thanks in advance to you all for your input on these matters.

P.D.: I forgot to ask one more question; filling level of the speaker stand: completely filled or partially filled (1/2, 2/3, other?). Thanks again.
Nice stands. Expensive, but if you like the design go for it knowing that you are paying for the design you like and getting none of the hyped sonic benefit of cast iron vs steel or iron ballast vs sand.... don't ignore what you learned in HS physics because of bs marketing hype. Odds are your speakers will resonate at a given volume and frequency more than the stands they are on however, I agree that heavy ballast filled stands will isolate and decouple most bookshelf speakers providing sonic benefits. Heavy Steel Sanus stands of various heights with bigger speaker surfaces are available for about 1/3 the price and can be easily filled with about 20 pounds of dry fine quartz sand for about $4. You'll benefit more from stands that put HF drivers at listening ear level than you will from lead filled stands that put your speakers higher or lower than your ear.
JonfromCB is offline  
post #29 of 36 Old 05-20-2017, 04:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Russ69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,518
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1061 Post(s)
Liked: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
...I foresee a time in the future where 50 to 100 pounds of lead is going to be very difficult to get rid of....
As long as cars have lead/acid batteries lead is going to be easily recycled.

__________________________

"Oh I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?"
Russ69 is offline  
post #30 of 36 Old 05-20-2017, 05:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
coytee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,543
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_adams View Post
Of course you meant Hygroscopic.
Learn something new every day!

For the last 40 years, I always thought it was hydroscopic... not hygro...
coytee is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Speakers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off