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post #1 of 52 Old 08-07-2017, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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help with speaker purchase

I am new to this site and this is my first post.I am ready to pull the trigger for a new pair of speakers and sub.I have a 30'x32' treated room and will be mainly using these for music.I listen to classic rock and jazz.My most recent speakers have been martin logan ascents and b&w 801's.Although I really like the sound quality of both(the logan's seemed to image a bit better and the 801's bass was preferable)I could never achieve the volume I wanted with either and have blown woofers in both the logans and the 801's in the process even though I had some pretty beefy amps to power with.I want good sound quality with large volume and I know this may be a difficult task on a budget.Mine is around 3500.00 total.I have heard good things about cinema type speakers and pro audio amps for home use and have decided to go this route over another consumer hi fi speaker.I have read about lots of different options and brands and I think I have narrowed my choices to the jbl 3677 and jbl 4621 sub or the jbl 4722n which would probably leave me a bit lean in the budget for a decent sub.My listening area is about 10'x12' and my question is do you think the 4722n would be overkill? Other options? I'm also finding there are only a couple of places that can get the 3677(have not inquired about the 4722n)and one of them said they would not be able to get them before October.Do you guys know where these can be easily acquired?Also what can I expect to pay for them?Full Compass quoted 615.00 plus shipping on the 3677.Southern Cal Cinetech has them on their website for 585.00 plus shipping and I'm assuming shipping will be at least a couple hundred bucks.Any info would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 52 Old 08-08-2017, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albumguy View Post
I am new to this site and this is my first post.I am ready to pull the trigger for a new pair of speakers and sub.I have a 30'x32' treated room and will be mainly using these for music.I listen to classic rock and jazz.My most recent speakers have been martin logan ascents and b&w 801's.Although I really like the sound quality of both(the logan's seemed to image a bit better and the 801's bass was preferable)I could never achieve the volume I wanted with either and have blown woofers in both the logans and the 801's in the process even though I had some pretty beefy amps to power with.I want good sound quality with large volume and I know this may be a difficult task on a budget.Mine is around 3500.00 total.I have heard good things about cinema type speakers and pro audio amps for home use and have decided to go this route over another consumer hi fi speaker.I have read about lots of different options and brands and I think I have narrowed my choices to the jbl 3677 and jbl 4621 sub or the jbl 4722n which would probably leave me a bit lean in the budget for a decent sub.My listening area is about 10'x12' and my question is do you think the 4722n would be overkill? Other options? I'm also finding there are only a couple of places that can get the 3677(have not inquired about the 4722n)and one of them said they would not be able to get them before October.Do you guys know where these can be easily acquired?Also what can I expect to pay for them?Full Compass quoted 615.00 plus shipping on the 3677.Southern Cal Cinetech has them on their website for 585.00 plus shipping and I'm assuming shipping will be at least a couple hundred bucks.Any info would be greatly appreciated.
A better value, though hardly pretty, that will peel the paint off your walls, and are easy to drive are speakers + sub(s) from Power Sound Audio.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/speakers

http://hometheaterreview.com/power-s...kers-reviewed/

http://hometheaterreview.com/power-s...ofer-reviewed/

http://www.avsforum.com/%EF%BB%BFpow...system-review/

Geoff A. J., California
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post #3 of 52 Old 08-08-2017, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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[quote=gajCA;54602216]A better value, though hardly pretty, that will peel the paint off your walls, and are easy to drive are speakers + sub(s) from Power Sound Audio.


Thanks for the info.I have not heard any of these speakers but I suppose I could try the psa's and take advantage of their 60 day trial period.If I didn't like them I would only be out a return shipping fee.Can someone recommend a pro audio amp to power the mtm-210.Supposedly they are very efficient.Also would like advice/opinions on amps for sub duty.The only sub I ever owned was powered.
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post #4 of 52 Old 08-08-2017, 07:39 PM
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[quote=albumguy;54604692]
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
A better value, though hardly pretty, that will peel the paint off your walls, and are easy to drive are speakers + sub(s) from Power Sound Audio.


Thanks for the info.I have not heard any of these speakers but I suppose I could try the psa's and take advantage of their 60 day trial period.If I didn't like them I would only be out a return shipping fee.Can someone recommend a pro audio amp to power the mtm-210.Supposedly they are very efficient.Also would like advice/opinions on amps for sub duty.The only sub I ever owned was powered.
The whole beauty of the PSA speakers is that they can be driven to very loud and dynamic levels with ordinary AVRs, so that you won't need any special beefy amps to run them.

Similarly, I would recommend buying a powered sub to make your life a whole lot simpler.

If your room is only 10 x 12 and enclosed, rather than 10 x 12 being just the listening area and there being a bunch of adjacent open spaces, you don't need to spend much over $400-600 for a good sub such as a Hsu VTF-2 or Emotiva S12.

If it's much bigger, you'll want to move up to the $800-1000 ballpark with something like a Hsu VTF-3 or PSA 15V or Rythmik FVX15.
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post #5 of 52 Old 08-09-2017, 02:05 AM
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2 mtm 210's and an S3000i from psa ( power sound audio)

loud, clear speakers and heart skipping bass will leave you smiling from ear to ear and come close for the speaker budget

the reviewers did find them very directive but once setup he was quite happy with the sound clarity
source:
mtm-210-speaker-review
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post #6 of 52 Old 08-09-2017, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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The jbl 3677 is a bit cheaper than the mtm 210.Has anyone compared these two against each other for sound quality?

My room is 30'x32'.It is my listening area that is 10'x12' and the room is pretty much wide open.

I had also considered a midfield studio monitor such as the jbl6332 but would not have much left over for a sub as they are about 1500.00 a piece.

I would like to thank everyone for their input.I want to make a good purchase(the first time)and it is very helpful to get advice/opinions from folks who know much more about this hobby than I.
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post #7 of 52 Old 08-09-2017, 08:57 AM
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[quote=albumguy;54604692]
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
A better value, though hardly pretty, that will peel the paint off your walls, and are easy to drive are speakers + sub(s) from Power Sound Audio.


Thanks for the info.I have not heard any of these speakers but I suppose I could try the psa's and take advantage of their 60 day trial period.If I didn't like them I would only be out a return shipping fee.Can someone recommend a pro audio amp to power the mtm-210.Supposedly they are very efficient.Also would like advice/opinions on amps for sub duty.The only sub I ever owned was powered.
The owner of PSA was also, I believe, one of the founders of SVS.

Most modern subs have built in amps including PSA, SVS and others.

The days of passive subs requiring separate amplifiers, (like my first sub, the Velodyne ULD15), are pretty much behind us though they are still available from a handful of manufacturers.

Geoff A. J., California
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post #8 of 52 Old 08-09-2017, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albumguy View Post
My room is 30'x32'.It is my listening area that is 10'x12' and the room is pretty much wide open.
The overall space is only relevant when selecting the subwoofer(s).

For speakers, the relevant spec is LISTENING DISTANCE: how far away from the speakers will you be sitting?

At the typical 8-12ft distance, you may be fine with 3 x MT110, or 2 x MT110 + 1 x MTM210C for your fronts.

~ Are you a "geek hobbyist" obsessed with squeezing out that last 5-10% improvement? The economy will thank you...especially the Chinese one. Or are you more of a get-set-and-forget "casual user" who simply wants to increase your enjoyment of movies, TV and gaming? Relax, HT isn't rocket science, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg---especially if you ignore the aforementioned vocal minority. And remember to smile...it's just a silly hobby, after all. :)
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post #9 of 52 Old 08-09-2017, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I have read several glowing reviews about psa mtm 110 and 210 and many good reviews about the jbl 3677 and 4722n but have not been able to find any direct comparisons.Anyone have experience with both of these?What do like/dislike about each?
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post #10 of 52 Old 08-09-2017, 01:50 PM
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I have read several glowing reviews about psa mtm 110 and 210 and many good reviews about the jbl 3677 and 4722n but have not been able to find any direct comparisons.Anyone have experience with both of these?What do like/dislike about each?
I believe that JBL has free returns and if that is the case with the JBLs you are looking at just order them and if you like them keep them.

Don't get a JBL sub though.

Do the JBLs have a horizontal center if that is what you need for your situation?

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post #11 of 52 Old 08-09-2017, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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As for now just going with a 2.1 setup.I guess the best thing to do is load up the card and see which one I prefer.Does anyone know if there is a studio monitor in a similar price range that would be equal to or better than these choices?My thought is sound quality could be matched or better but not volume.

I am curious as to what adding a center channel would do for the overall sound.This setup will be mainly for music and the movies I watch are usually concert dvd's or music documentaries.
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post #12 of 52 Old 08-09-2017, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albumguy View Post
As for now just going with a 2.1 setup.I guess the best thing to do is load up the card and see which one I prefer.Does anyone know if there is a studio monitor in a similar price range that would be equal to or better than these choices?My thought is sound quality could be matched or better but not volume.

I am curious as to what adding a center channel would do for the overall sound.This setup will be mainly for music and the movies I watch are usually concert dvd's or music documentaries.
The $4500/pair msrp B&Ws you blew up have power handling up to 600 watts so maybe you blew them up not using enough power.

Your local Best Buy has Klipsch RPs with easy returns and that is likely the only speaker that they carry with anywhere near the Dynamics of the PSA.

How close?

I have no idea.

These claim to be able to handle more power than the PSAs and more sensitivity so 'on paper' they should be up to the task but I wouldn't hold my breath.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/klipsch-...?skuId=5708504

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post #13 of 52 Old 08-09-2017, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
A better value, though hardly pretty, that will peel the paint off your walls, and are easy to drive are speakers + sub(s) from Power Sound Audio.

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/speakers

http://hometheaterreview.com/power-s...kers-reviewed/

http://hometheaterreview.com/power-s...ofer-reviewed/

http://www.avsforum.com/%EF%BB%BFpow...system-review/

+1
These speakers, always have great reviews, and one who own them, Love them.
I own Aperion Verus Grand by the way, the PSA did not exist then, but still happy with my Verus, just much less sensitive and need a good amp.

[quote=Zorba922;54604798]
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Originally Posted by albumguy View Post

The whole beauty of the PSA speakers is that they can be driven to very loud and dynamic levels with ordinary AVRs, so that you won't need any special beefy amps to run them.

Similarly, I would recommend buying a powered sub to make your life a whole lot simpler.

If your room is only 10 x 12 and enclosed, rather than 10 x 12 being just the listening area and there being a bunch of adjacent open spaces, you don't need to spend much over $400-600 for a good sub such as a Hsu VTF-2 or Emotiva S12.

If it's much bigger, you'll want to move up to the $800-1000 ballpark with something like a Hsu VTF-3 or PSA 15V or Rythmik FVX15.

Another +1

[quote=gajCA;54606906]
Quote:
Originally Posted by albumguy View Post

The owner of PSA was also, I believe, one of the founders of SVS.

Most modern subs have built in amps including PSA, SVS and others.

The days of passive subs requiring separate amplifiers, (like my first sub, the Velodyne ULD15), are pretty much behind us though they are still available from a handful of manufacturers.

You are indeed correct about Tom, been a co-founder of SVS.
Is last name start with V, and this is what the V in stand for in SVS.
The first S, was the first letter of the other co-founder, and the last S, was for Subwoofer.

[quote=albumguy;54604692]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
A better value, though hardly pretty, that will peel the paint off your walls, and are easy to drive are speakers + sub(s) from Power Sound Audio.


Thanks for the info.I have not heard any of these speakers but I suppose I could try the psa's and take advantage of their 60 day trial period.If I didn't like them I would only be out a return shipping fee.Can someone recommend a pro audio amp to power the mtm-210.Supposedly they are very efficient.Also would like advice/opinions on amps for sub duty.The only sub I ever owned was powered.

Look them up


If they would have existed, when I purchase my Aperion, I would have strongly consider them.


Ray
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post #14 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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The $4500/pair msrp B&Ws you blew up have power handling up to 600 watts so maybe you blew them up not using enough power.

Your local Best Buy has Klipsch RPs with easy returns and that is likely the only speaker that they carry with anywhere near the Dynamics of the PSA.

How close?

I have no idea.

These claim to be able to handle more power than the PSAs and more sensitivity so 'on paper' they should be up to the task but I wouldn't hold my breath.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/klipsch-...?skuId=5708504
I was powering them with a aragon 4004 mk II.I bought the speakers and amp from the original owner who said that amp was recommended for those speakers when he bought them and I had read that amp was a beast.

I used to have a pair of Klipsch Heressys back in the day.They weren't bad speakers but I was not satisfied with them.Don't really remember why it's been so long ago.

I think I am going to order the psa mtm-210 and one of the jbl's(either 3677 or 4722n)I'm sure the return shipping on the 4722's would be a war pension.I will not be able to get the sub until I send one of these back so I will have to judge without the sub knowing that both the mtm-210 and 3677 both benefit greatly with a sub.

I would like to thank everyone who chimed in on this thread.You guys have been really helpful and I appreciate everyone's willingness to try and help a noob out.

I will report back when I have made my choice.
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post #15 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by gajCA View Post
The $4500/pair msrp B&Ws you blew up have power handling up to 600 watts so maybe you blew them up not using enough power.

Your local Best Buy has Klipsch RPs with easy returns and that is likely the only speaker that they carry with anywhere near the Dynamics of the PSA.

How close?

I have no idea.

These claim to be able to handle more power than the PSAs and more sensitivity so 'on paper' they should be up to the task but I wouldn't hold my breath.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/klipsch-...?skuId=5708504
I had the 150m for a few weeks, there is no way the rp-160m are even close to PSA. If I still had the 150m's, they would be in flames by now. They sound great, but he will definitely blow out the woofer. If you are gonna play super loud with RP, you start with the RP-280f. I got blasted on the Klipsch forum for that opinion, but I stand behind it. I'm talking over 100 db.

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post #16 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albumguy View Post
I was powering them with a aragon 4004 mk II.I bought the speakers and amp from the original owner who said that amp was recommended for those speakers when he bought them and I had read that amp was a beast.

I used to have a pair of Klipsch Heressys back in the day.They weren't bad speakers but I was not satisfied with them.Don't really remember why it's been so long ago.

I think I am going to order the psa mtm-210 and one of the jbl's(either 3677 or 4722n)I'm sure the return shipping on the 4722's would be a war pension.I will not be able to get the sub until I send one of these back so I will have to judge without the sub knowing that both the mtm-210 and 3677 both benefit greatly with a sub.

I would like to thank everyone who chimed in on this thread.You guys have been really helpful and I appreciate everyone's willingness to try and help a noob out.

I will report back when I have made my choice.
Fair warning, the MTM are designed to work with a subwoofer, and probably sound pretty poorly without one. They drop off precipitously after about 80 Hz.

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post #17 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 08:51 AM
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I had the 150m for a few weeks, there is no way the rp-160m are even close to PSA. If I still had the 150m's, they would be in flames by now. They sound great, but he will definitely blow out the woofer. If you are gonna play super loud with RP, you start with the RP-280f. I got blasted on the Klipsch forum for that opinion, but I stand behind it. I'm talking over 100 db.
Yes, I've saved a lot of money by not being a "must have 100db at 15 feet for the front two" kind of guy.

One of the many reasons I was able to retire at 51!

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post #18 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Update: I may be able to get a good deal on a pair of JBL LSR 708 powered monitors.(will find out tomorrow)I just wonder if the 8" woofer could actually get near the spl of the 3677 or the mtm-210.They are bi-amped with 250 wpc for the top and 250 for the bottom.The most wattage I've ever heard of in a studio monitor and they are supposed to sound amazing.Anybody have experience with these?I can probably get a good deal on a jbl sub too.Is there one recommended or should I go with psa,svs,hsu,rhytmik etc... if I should choose these monitors?
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post #19 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 11:32 AM
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Update: I may be able to get a good deal on a pair of JBL LSR 708 powered monitors.(will find out tomorrow)I just wonder if the 8" woofer could actually get near the spl of the 3677 or the mtm-210.
Find a way to test the 708 out

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post #20 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 11:47 AM
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Update: I may be able to get a good deal on a pair of JBL LSR 708 powered monitors.(will find out tomorrow)I just wonder if the 8" woofer could actually get near the spl of the 3677 or the mtm-210.They are bi-amped with 250 wpc for the top and 250 for the bottom.The most wattage I've ever heard of in a studio monitor and they are supposed to sound amazing.Anybody have experience with these?I can probably get a good deal on a jbl sub too.Is there one recommended or should I go with psa,svs,hsu,rhytmik etc... if I should choose these monitors?
All the companies you listed will easily out-perform JBL subs.
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post #21 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Find a way to test the 708 out
zieglj01 I noticed you listed digital phase as one of your speakers.I owned a pair of those as well.(thought I was the only one)Mine were the mini-towers with a 6.5 inch driver and a 1" tweeter.I think mine were the "Equipoise" model.I used to know Darrell the guy that owned the company.Really nice guy and a electronics genius.He always talked way over my head.(lol)

I'll be getting the lsr 708's from a jbl rep so don't know what kind of trial/return policy I'll be able to work out.
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post #22 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 12:50 PM
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zieglj01 I noticed you listed digital phase as one of your speakers.I owned a pair of those as well.(thought I was the only one)Mine were the mini-towers with a 6.5 inch driver and a 1" tweeter.I think mine were the "Equipoise" model.I used to know Darrell the guy that owned the company.Really nice guy and a electronics genius.He always talked way over my head.(lol)
Yes He had a good product line with Digital and Equipoise -- He did really make some good products -- Their bass will trump a lot of speakers, and turn a lot of heads.

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post #23 of 52 Old 08-10-2017, 07:00 PM
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Update: I may be able to get a good deal on a pair of JBL LSR 708 powered monitors.(will find out tomorrow)I just wonder if the 8" woofer could actually get near the spl of the 3677 or the mtm-210.They are bi-amped with 250 wpc for the top and 250 for the bottom.The most wattage I've ever heard of in a studio monitor and they are supposed to sound amazing.Anybody have experience with these?I can probably get a good deal on a jbl sub too.Is there one recommended or should I go with psa,svs,hsu,rhytmik etc... if I should choose these monitors?
I would take the JBL over the PSA. I had the PSA 210T and also the JBL 590. I prefer the JBLs. The JBLs had more midbass and the highs are not harsh/bright like they can be on the PSA.

Compare them side by side in your room. Get them both and I bet the PSA get sent back.

I wouldn't go with a sub from JBL. Depending on your budget for the sub PSA is good for price and performance. I also have a PSA XS30, Seaton Submersive among others listed in my signature and for the money PSA are subs I would recommend. I just looked at the size of your room and you are going to need some massive subwoofers to fill that space. I would think about doing the JBL 3677 or 4722 for now and saving to get bigger subs or building some. You are going to need multiple 18" ported to get good output in a room that size. Something like a couple JTR 1400 minimum. More like JTR 4000 to keep up with the JBLs.

Subs from PSA I would look at would be the V3601 2-4 of those. You will want ported for an area that large. Edit I see you are only using a small area of the room so you can get by with less sub woofage since they will be located closer to you. I would still say something along the lines of 2 PSA V3601 as a minimum. You could try 2 of the 1801 and send them back if they are not enough or start with 1 V3601 to see what you think.
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Last edited by bscool; 08-10-2017 at 07:09 PM.
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post #24 of 52 Old 08-12-2017, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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It's down to the JBL lsr708p or the 4722n.I had read on the 4722n thread that some who were 100% movies did not recommend the 4722n for music.I'm leaning towards the 708p and hope it will be loud enough.Also thinking I will go for a psa sub.Uncertain about starting out with the 15 and save to buy another one or go for the 18 in hopes that I will not need another one.Also have heard that sealed are better for music even though they won't go as low as vented.Any opinions on these choices?
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Originally Posted by albumguy View Post
It's down to the JBL lsr708p or the 4722n.I had read on the 4722n thread that some who were 100% movies did not recommend the 4722n for music.I'm leaning towards the 708p and hope it will be loud enough.Also thinking I will go for a psa sub.Uncertain about starting out with the 15 and save to buy another one or go for the 18 in hopes that I will not need another one.Also have heard that sealed are better for music even though they won't go as low as vented.Any opinions on these choices?
S3000i with Anti Mode EQ sounds like a great place to start and likely end at $1850, no?

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post #26 of 52 Old 08-12-2017, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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S3000i with Anti Mode EQ sounds like a great place to start and likely end at $1850, no?
The 708p are powered.No need for external amp.Each speaker has a 250 watt amp for the HF and a 250 watt amp for the LF.Never heard of a studio monitor with that kind of power.
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The 708p are powered.No need for external amp.Each speaker has a 250 watt amp for the HF and a 250 watt amp for the LF.Never heard of a studio monitor with that kind of power.
Sorry for the last reply.I was thinking of a external crown power amp with a similar model #.
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S3000i with Anti Mode EQ sounds like a great place to start and likely end at $1850, no?
1599.00 for the S3000I.That puts me over budget but may be able to work it out.
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post #29 of 52 Old 08-12-2017, 02:28 PM
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1599.00 for the S3000I.That puts me over budget but may be able to work it out.
Sorry, must have missed your budget.

Wouldn't all PSA for speakers and sub actually give you higher SPLs vs JBL at a lower cost?

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post #30 of 52 Old 08-12-2017, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bscool View Post
I would take the JBL over the PSA. I had the PSA 210T and also the JBL 590. I prefer the JBLs. The JBLs had more midbass and the highs are not harsh/bright like they can be on the PSA.

Compare them side by side in your room. Get them both and I bet the PSA get sent back.
That is some good info and speaks highly of the JBL Studio 5 series

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