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Which lower-efficiency speakers should I be looking at?

3K views 49 replies 20 participants last post by  motrek 
#1 ·
Okay so I'm thinking about upgrading my computer speakers. I recently bought a pair of Sony SS-CS5s and they have a lot of good qualities but after using them for a couple months, I find them to be a bit harsh and sibilant and I'm wondering if I can do better.

Unusually, I'm looking for lower-efficiency speakers. The problem is that if I'm not listening to music, I want my office to be dead silent. With higher-efficiency speakers (87+ dB) I can hear speaker hiss from my desk chair. I wish I could blame this on my amplifier but I've tried 3 different amplifiers and they all produce roughly the same amount of hiss, so I don't want to throw my amp under the bus. I've read that a certain amount of amp/speaker hiss is unavoidable due to quantum physics somehow. So I think the solution is just lower-efficiency speakers.

The cheaper the better, but I would consider speakers up to $300 if they were something special.

Any thoughts are appreciated. :)
 
#2 ·
I have the Elac Uni-Fi UB5s for my computer speakers and they work wonderfully, absolutely no hiss whatsoever. You can find them on sale for $450 right now, which is a bit over your budget, but coaxial drivers are great for near-field listening.

You can also find refurb Kef Q300s, which also feature a coaxial design, for about $400 at A4L.
 
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#3 ·
I wish I could blame this on my amplifier but I've tried 3 different amplifiers and they all produce roughly the same amount of hiss...
That seems very wrong to me. Were these real amplifiers, or computer cr@p? And are you sure the hiss isn't bleeding through from the source?* Please describe your whole setup chain with model numbers and we can probably help more.

Also consider powered speakers, which should not have this problem...unless the source is bad.

*Particularly if you are using a computer's audio as the source, those can be terrible. Like every iMac I owned, ugh, I could not listen with headphones. External DAC (like Audioquest Dragonfly) to the rescue!)
 
#4 ·
I have a SMSL-SA50. I thought maybe the amp was the problem so I also tried a friend's SMSL-SA36 (Plus or Pro or something) with its on-board DAC, same amount of hiss. Also tried my Yamaha AV receiver with a digital signal, i.e., using the Yamaha's DAC, same amount of hiss.

I mean, to put this in perspective, the hiss is only barely audible from 3 feet away, and that's at night in a very quiet room. And I have good hearing and I'm picky. I told a couple friends of mine that the hiss annoys me and they listened for it and couldn't hear it from more than 3 inches away, although to be fair that was during the day when there was more ambient noise.

So I think this level of hiss is probably normal and it might actually be pretty good. So I don't think it's so bad to reduce it by just getting some lower-efficiency speakers.
 
#6 ·
Sorry to hear it. :( I had some tinnitus for a while from an injury and I know it can be miserable.

I'm sure that what I'm hearing is from the speakers, because I'd like nothing more than to buy another pair of Ascend CBM-170s (89 dB) for my computer and call it a day, but I've tried using my Ascends with my computer for days to try to get used to the hiss but it ends up driving me crazy and I give up. The Sonys that I have now are 87 dB and they're acceptable. Sometimes I think I can hear them but I'm not 100% sure it isn't just my imagination. I think 86 dB would probably be ideal. I notice that Wharfedales tend to be around this sensitivity, maybe an option...
 
#11 ·
Yup, the way I normally connect my computer to my speakers is via a SMSL SA50 which has an analog input. I was just trying the other amps to make sure the hiss wasn't due to the amp. (Well, I mean, of course the hiss is coming from the amp, but it seems to come from every other amp too.) I didn't notice any difference between the levels of hiss regardless of the amp or connection method.
 
#10 ·
wharfedale 10.1's would probably work for you..i have them (paired with a yamaha avr).. they are the best speaker i have ever had for clear audio.. they aren't that detailed ..but.. what you get is music.. not funny background noise ... check music direct "open box" availability..
 
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#15 ·
Other option

Why not buy a stereo L-Pad and adjust the level after the amp?
Make sure it's the type without a common ground or buy 2 mono L-Pads.
Since I'm handy I buy the parts and put it into an enclosure.

or

Table top speaker volume control at MCM Electronics
Uses transformers so slight degradation in sound but with the vast majority of speakers you will never hear it.
 
#17 ·
Not sure that lower efficiency would do much of anything. To hear the speakers you are just going to have to turn them up higher (along with the hiss possibly.) Maybe get a capacitor and make a simple hi cut filter. If your speakers are hard wired to the speakers you may need to cut into the wire to put the cap across the two wires. If they attach to some kind of speaker posts just short across the posts with the cap. Your sound card or computer is just a lousy audio source I guess.
How about just turning the speakers so the tweeters point away from you? For a capacitor value you may need to know what the frequency is. My guess is probably above 5000 cycles per second would not impact hearing what you want to hear eand killing the hiss. that it is fortunate you never had an old tube tv with a flyback transformet !!
 
#20 ·
The hiss is a constant volume regardless of the volume that I have my computer set to (or if the input is digital) and regardless of the volume the amplifier is set to.

What I gather from this is that the hiss is coming from somewhere downstream in the amplifier and can therefore be addressed with lower-efficiency speakers. (Also I don't really have to speculate about this because I've used lower-efficiency speakers and they do reduce the hiss.)

The top-rated answer to this question seems to address the issue neatly:

https://sound.stackexchange.com/questions/25472/what-causes-the-background-hissing-in-speakers/25474

Indeed, I've never heard a combination of amplifier and speakers that don't produce a hiss when the amplifier is turned on. Have you? I mean, you might have to move so that your ear is within inches of a speaker's tweeter and listen in a quiet room but I bet you'll be able to hear a hiss.
 
#18 ·
How about simply turning the amp off when you want silence?
 
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#19 ·
I'm not an expert, but....
I think you have issue with Volume control set up, not source or speakers.

The hiss comes from amplification of empty noise. Empty because you probably want to control volume through computer, so the amp is running 100% and then volume controls via source. So if the PC volume is at 20% but amp is at 100%, you will hear the noise.

When I listen to Spotify on my Mac through amplifier, I make sure my Mac volume is fixed at 100% and volume control through the Amp. The other way around is wrong, and if my amp is at 100% volume and I control it on my PC limiting it from 100% to 50%, I will hear hiss in the other 50% of emptiness.

If I listen in the car through Bluetooth, sometimes I forget to turn up my source (iPhone) to 100% volume and so I have to add more volume (amplification) in the car, and I start to hear more "dirty" sound, because its amplifying weak signal that's limited and not 100% there. Play around with volume settings, if that makes any sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#22 ·
I'm not an expert, but....
I think you have issue with Volume control set up, not source or speakers.

The hiss comes from amplification of empty noise. Empty because you probably want to control volume through computer, so the amp is running 100% and then volume controls via source. So if the PC volume is at 20% but amp is at 100%, you will hear the noise.

When I listen to Spotify on my Mac through amplifier, I make sure my Mac volume is fixed at 100% and volume control through the Amp. The other way around is wrong, and if my amp is at 100% volume and I control it on my PC limiting it from 100% to 50%, I will hear hiss in the other 50% of emptiness.

If I listen in the car through Bluetooth, sometimes I forget to turn up my source (iPhone) to 100% volume and so I have to add more volume (amplification) in the car, and I start to hear more "dirty" sound, because its amplifying weak signal that's limited and not 100% there. Play around with volume settings, if that makes any sense.
...
I'm sure that hiss CAN be caused by amplification of "empty noise" if your analog source has a relatively high noise floor, but in my case that's not the cause, considering that I still hear a hiss even when I'm using digital sources (and thus empty noise is literally zero).

By the way, if you're using the analog output on your Mac, you probably shouldn't have it turned to 100%. Apple tends to use high-quality DACs, but even so, almost all DACs tend to produce sub-optimal output when run at their limits. You should probably turn your Mac down to maybe 80% volume for best results.

Of course if you're using a digital output (including Bluetooth) then you should definitely have it turned to 100% because it's not like there's going to be any degradation of the signal at high volumes.
 
#32 ·
Yes and yes.

I've looked at hundreds, maybe thousands of reviews of amps and computer speakers and no matter what product you're talking about, it seems there are people who complain about this sort of hiss. Reading more about it, "thermal noise" seems to be the culprit:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson–Nyquist_noise

Unavoidable electronic noise within the amp circuitry gets amplified a bit and bam, hiss. Depending on the design of the circuitry within the amp, and the normal variation between electronic components, some amps produce more hiss than others. But it doesn't seem to be a function of the price of the amp, so it doesn't seem like I can just throw money at the problem and make it go away (if it's possible to make it go away at all).

The idea of putting a volume attenuator as the last stage of a small desktop amp seems pretty sound. Kickstarter idea, anyone? :)
 
#35 ·
+1 for ELAC UniFi's! Heard them at a show and they were quite impressive for the price.

Also, not to try to solve the hiss issue, have you tried a good external DAC? I know you tried your Yamaha recover, but many recovers do not have high quality DACs. I could be wrong about yours tho as some do.

I think the reason man are trying to solve the hiss issue is if there is a cheaper solution to your problem than new speakers it is wroth looking into.

Here's my computer audio setup and I can't here any hiss:
Emotiva Little Ego DAC
Emotiva A-100 amp
Fluance SX6 speakers

Now the lack of hiss may have more to do with my aging ears than the stem itself. :)
 
#36 ·
+1 for ELAC UniFi's! Heard them at a show and they were quite impressive for the price.

Also, not to try to solve the hiss issue, have you tried a good external DAC? I know you tried your Yamaha recover, but many recovers do not have high quality DACs. I could be wrong about yours tho as some do.

I think the reason man are trying to solve the hiss issue is if there is a cheaper solution to your problem than new speakers it is wroth looking into.
...
The problem I'm trying to solve is that my Sony speakers are a bit harsh in some of the higher frequencies. I'm pretty sure the way to solve that is to replace the speakers... the hiss is irrelevant except that it places a restriction on the sensitivity of the replacement speakers. I now regret mentioning the hiss since it's confused everybody. I should have just not explained why I'm looking for speakers that are
 
#38 ·
add 100 to your budget and the
kef Q300 bookshelves
are on clearance at kef direct
 
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#40 ·
Any of several NHT speakers are low efficiency.
https://www.nhthifi.com/
Check out the "Specials"--B-stock
I have a pair of discontinued NHT Absolute Zero's which have been replaced by the C-1 and a pair of Super Zero's. The Absolute Zero's coupled with a sub are in the bedroom and are only for music. They sound fantastic. The Super Zero's are in my office. Again with a sub and also sound great. You can see from my signature that I like NHT. The knock on NHT has always been that they are somewhat inefficient which has never been a problem for me. Since this is what you are looking for, I recommend them. I have no problem with hiss from any of them. :)
 
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#41 ·
I love my NHT SuperOne 2.1's, but at 86 dB SPL, they just aren't efficient enough for my 50 Wpc amps, so they were relegated to my workbench stereo/HT (Onkyo TX-8020).No hiss is heard from either the NHT's or the Klipsch R-15M's (93 dB SPL), both taking up valuable workbench real estate in a near-field computer speaker type application. This PC has a pair of LSR-305's for speakers - no amplifier his there, either.

You might consider another amp - one with a higher s/n - like one designed for headphones - such as my Emotiva A-100 BasX 50 Wpc (8 Ohms) amp 110dB s/n! It's a steal at MSRP ($229). It and my recent purchase SET tube amp, a Musical Paradise MP-301 MK3, are dead quiet with my ear in front of my Heresy speakers, despite their 96 dB sensitivity (Which is needed for the SET anp's massive 6.5 Wpc!).
 
#42 ·
Quick update for everybody who has made all these helpful recommendations (thank you very much!):

All the comments about your quiet amplifier setups prompted me re-examine my amp situation and I bought a Topping VX2 to try it out.

And, great news, it is absolutely silent when idle! So I feel like a horse's ass for arguing with everybody who claimed their amplifiers were silent and I apologize.

Interestingly, the Topping VX2 is silent because it seems to essentially turn itself off when it's idle.

I tried turning my computer volume down to 1%, turning down my iTunes volume down to 1%, and turning down the amp's volume to 1/100, and playing a song. The song was completely inaudible but I heard the same amount of static/hiss from my speakers that I heard from the SMSL when it was idle.

So this seems to confirm my idea that SOME amount of static/hiss is inevitable from this sort of amplification circuitry, but also shows that it's possible for amps to bypass the circuitry when idle. It would be nice to have a list of amps that have such a bypass. I can confirm that the SMSL SA-50 and SA-36 models do not, and that the Topping VX2 model does.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Nope, lower efficiency speakers won't solve your hissing problem. What you want is an amp with a low noise floor.

ETA - it looks like you found a solution to your problem. Good on you for keeping an open mind and ear to other solutions! 🙂
 
#44 ·
I just thought I'd update you... I've managed to hear a faint buzz on my SET tube amp with the CDP off and a cheapie RCA - RCA cable from the A-100 BasX line out to the SET amp. The SET amp is on 'Phone' with it's gain at max and Pro-4AA headphones in use. The poor shielding of the cheap cable was picking up The LSR-305 monitor speaker's switching ps hash, 25" LCD hash, and MODEM/VOIP hash, depending on where I ran the cheap cable, which is a red & white male RCA phono plugs on a 3 ft stereo lead - like supplied with VCR's, etc. My good such cable is running from the CDP to the A-100 BasX, which CDP on or off, amp gain at max, and the Pro-4AA headphones is dead quiet... with the cheapie cable disconnected from the A-100 BasX's line out (... which is apparently just connected directly to the line inputs!). With the cable connected - a faint buzz was heard! It's the relatively poor quality cable shielding that picks up the buzz from the digital or switching ps sources. Better quality cable - or running the cheap cable away would help. Of course, at normal listening levels, the buzz is inaudible.
 
#46 ·
Yes, there are unfortunately many different possible reasons for interference/noise/static/hiss. :(

An easy test to see if your amp is producing static is to turn its volume all the way down, which makes the input signal irrelevant and eliminates it as a possible source of noise.

I also like the Topping VX2 because it combines a DAC with the amplifier, so the digital-to-analog conversion happens as late as possible in the signal chain. Then it really doesn't matter if your cables are picking up interference or if you have ground loops between your devices etc. etc. Good for peace of mind!
 
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