Definitive Technology Unleashes Demand Series Speakers at CEDIA 2017 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 44 Old 09-10-2017, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitive Technology Unleashes Demand Series Speakers at CEDIA 2017

New from Definitive Technology are the Demand Series of standmount speakers, which were unveiled at CEDIA 2017. There are three new models as well as a dedicated stand. The new models are the 4.5" D7, 5.25" D9, and 6.5" D11.

Click this link to read more: Definitive Technology Demand Series Speakers at CEDIA 2017

Also, I shot a very brief video of the speakers as they were presented at the show (no audio though, just soundtrack)...

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post #2 of 44 Old 09-10-2017, 05:57 PM
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We've been discussing those in the Definitive Technology Owners Thread. To start with I didn't like the new look but the more I've looked at them the more I like them. The only downfall to me is pricing! $499 (pair) for a 4.5" bookshelf speaker (D7), $799 (pair) for the 5.25" D9, and $999 (pair) for the 6.5" D11. You can buy Bowers & Wilkins, SVS Ultras, and several others in that price range.


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post #3 of 44 Old 09-10-2017, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
We've been discussing those in the Definitive Technology Owners Thread. To start with I didn't like the new look but the more I've looked at them the more I like them. The only downfall to me is pricing! $499 (pair) for a 4.5" bookshelf speaker (D7), $799 (pair) for the 5.25" D9, and $999 (pair) for the 6.5" D11. You can buy Bowers & Wilkins, SVS Ultras, and several others in that price range.


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Cool, here's a link so new readers can jump right into that if they want.

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post #4 of 44 Old 09-10-2017, 06:22 PM
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There's no waveguide on that tweeter!! If there was they wouldn't have to worry about baffle diffraction. It's just an offset tweeter on a flat baffle, which has been done for longer than I've been alive.
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I like the new design.
But prices are really on the high side.
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post #6 of 44 Old 09-10-2017, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
There's no waveguide on that tweeter!! If there was they wouldn't have to worry about baffle diffraction. It's just an offset tweeter on a flat baffle, which has been done for longer than I've been alive.
Look at a picture, like the one in the post just above this one, and you'll see there is a waveguide. Which is consistent with the press release, and of course with the speakers I saw in person at the show. Any questions?

Are you confusing a horn with a waveguide?

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post #7 of 44 Old 09-10-2017, 06:32 PM
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Yea, the D9 (5.25") is $799 a pair and is pretty much the same specs and same size driver as my Studio Monitor 45's which I got new for $320 for the pair. They're currently on Clearance for $250 pair! I'm not sure that the D9's are $550 better!


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post #8 of 44 Old 09-10-2017, 06:37 PM
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From video the black disc looks flat, correct? Then no waveguide. DefTech doesn't even call it a waveguide on their website, but a Wave Alignment Lense, which sounds like marketing hokum. How is it focusing anything? Any more than a flat baffle? (which technically could be described as a 180 degree waveguide)
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post #9 of 44 Old 09-10-2017, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
From video the black disc looks flat, correct? Then no waveguide. DefTech doesn't even call it a waveguide on their website, but a Wave Alignment Lense, which sounds like marketing hokum. How is it focusing anything? Any more than a flat baffle? (which technically could be described as a 180 degree waveguide)
Don't worry about what you think you see in the video. The lens is what's in front of the dome. The waveguide is the recess in the baffle it sits within. I shot the video, by the way. These speakers do have a waveguide. It's clearly visible in photos, and in fact you can clearly see it in my video too... even if it's not apparent to you. There's a waveguide on these speakers, I promise.
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I've never seen phase shields be referred to as waveguides? Secondly, the phase shield has NOTHING to do with baffle diffraction, it is solely to improve the directivity (or diffraction if you prefer) of the diaphragm itself. In fact, if it does it's job well the baffle diffraction of the top octave will worsen as the response roll off will be lessened and more energy of the sound will "see" the baffle edges. Not a huge amount at all, but this is in fact how it works. In fact the principles are well understood, the terminology is agreed on, the only ones not "getting it" are the marketing department at DefTech and the AV media who maybe should pick up a book on waveguides and horns (Geddes has a good one, or one could just peruse any diy audio forum and learn about the science)

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Well now you've completely changed your post, so my last reply was not complete. There is no way anyone would call that little flare a waveguide. Technically it is, but given that tiny mouth can only be effective down to what, 7khz? That feature has been around forever and no one ever called it a waveguide. A waveguide normally understood would control dispersion much lower, ideally all the way to the crossover point.
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post #12 of 44 Old 09-10-2017, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by augerpro View Post
Well now you've completely changed your post, so my last reply was not complete. There is no way anyone would call that little flare a waveguide. Technically it is, but given that tiny mouth can only be effective down to what, 7khz? That feature has been around forever and no one ever called it a waveguide. A waveguide normally understood would control dispersion much lower, ideally all the way to the crossover point.
Cool.

The marketing only ever claimed that the tweeter offset had a benefit in terms of baffle diffraction, no other context. I trust you understand your fundamentals regarding how speakers work, but I do feel your denunciation of the feature description of these bookshelf units may be an overreaction. "Technically it is" means "it is" in the grand scheme of things, you say so yourself.
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Cool.
And I also said technically a flat baffle is a 180 waveguide, I really hope you don't support describing all flat baffles as waveguides? Other than this article Still I think Geddes would be unhappy with calling it a 180 degree waveguide, since waveguides imply some sort of dispersion control through the passband, while flat baffles certainly do not.

My issue is there is enough bandwagon, pseudo-science in AV as there is, the media should not be supporting that nonsense. It is a detriment to the consumer and members of this forum. Waveguides are a pretty big thing right now - for good reason - and I don't think it is right to let any member here buy a speaker to get the latest science in waveguides when they are getting NOTHING of the sort!

Deftech has resources. They should have used them to actually design a waveguide, not phone in features that have been around for decades and never in that time would be described as waveguides.
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How did the new series sound Mark? (thats all that really matters to me )
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How did the new series sound Mark? (thats all that really matters to me )
Yes that's the only thing that matters.. Mark will you be getting a set of D9's to test out?

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Yeah please tell us how they sound? Your first initial impression and after you had time to listen in depth if you indeed did, thanks.

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post #17 of 44 Old 09-11-2017, 03:38 AM - Thread Starter
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How did the new series sound Mark? (thats all that really matters to me )
Quote:
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Yes that's the only thing that matters.. Mark will you be getting a set of D9's to test out?
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Yeah please tell us how they sound? Your first initial impression and after you had time to listen in depth if you indeed did, thanks.

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Here's a good look at the offset tweeter and the waveguide.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
We've been discussing those in the Definitive Technology Owners Thread. To start with I didn't like the new look but the more I've looked at them the more I like them. The only downfall to me is pricing! $499 (pair) for a 4.5" bookshelf speaker (D7), $799 (pair) for the 5.25" D9, and $999 (pair) for the 6.5" D11. You can buy Bowers & Wilkins, SVS Ultras, and several others in that price range.
Dude, you need to chill. Also these prices are for per pair, whereas BW and Goldenear etc are pricing us per speaker for their latest stuff...
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Pricing seems to be about right, the D11's are only $50.00 more, per speaker, than the original MSRP for the SM65's they are replacing.
Now we'll just have to see how well they do, sound wise, improving on the SM65's is a pretty tall order.
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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Pricing seems to be about right, the D9's are only $50.00 more, per speaker, this the original MSRP for the SM65's they are replacing.

Now we'll just use to see how well they do, sound wise, improving on the SM65's is a pretty tall order.

How's it replacing the SM65's? The D9 is one 5.25" driver compared to the SM45. The SM65 has two 5.25" drivers. That's not a comparison. The specs pretty much equal the SM45 which were $399 pair retail compared the D9 at $799 pair. And, $500 for a pair of 4.5" "surround" bookshelves is steep.


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I thought these speakers sounded excellent for bookshelf speakers at Cedia. They had a nice demo set up -







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Originally Posted by ALtlOff View Post
Pricing seems to be about right, the D9's are only $50.00 more, per speaker, this the original MSRP for the SM65's they are replacing.
Now we'll just use to see how well they do, sound wise, improving on the SM65's is a pretty tall order.
I'll be very surprised if these speakers beat out the SM 65s. The SM 65s are really like full tower sound in a very large bookshelf size speaker. I personally like the look of the SM series better but I need more time to check them out.

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Originally Posted by Falconsfan71 View Post
How's it replacing the SM65's? The D9 is one 5.25" driver compared to the SM45. The SM65 has two 5.25" drivers. That's not a comparison. The specs pretty much equal the SM45 which were $399 pair retail compared the D9 at $799 pair. And, $500 for a pair of 4.5" "surround" bookshelves is steep.


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Sorry, meant the D11 (edited my post)
I was just going by Top bookshelf -to- Top bookshelf.
And no, I can't imagine them doing the job as well.

Honestly, I don't think the "comparisons" will hold up that well, it's probably going to simply be a matter of listening and deciding if they simply sound like a $1k pair of speakers or not.

Unfortunately I think the pricing structure is more for the general public than those of us who know.

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post #25 of 44 Old 09-12-2017, 04:15 PM
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Did anyone else notice that groovy waveguide?













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I don't think anyone realizes the older line was much more money when they came out.

Sm45 was $599 for fist year until they had a price drop

Sm55 was $899

Sm65 was $1100

They realized that was WAY to much money and then lowered prices.

This demand line will be the same. They'll be much cheaper then that msrp. They are a sound united company that cuts corners to save money then heavily discounts to trick people into GREAT deals. Denon, marantz, Polk and definitive are all one big happy family now.

Sm45 are $80 each now. Which is a good deal but honestly they aren't worth much more than that after you hear them.

Hopefully definitive will return to a top notch AMERICAN speaker company. Not just another sell out to the highest Chinese bidder. I have dozens of definitive products in my homes. Last good product they made was a decade ago. Now they are just like klipsch or Polk audio.

As I'm complaining I should bring up that klipsch ruined energy and mirage too. So it happens in this industry. Just sucks.
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I think they look great...a lot like a KEF Reference 1. They might even sound a lot like a Reference 1. You know, except for the uniq driver's coherence, and the tweeter being two layer, and the baffle being a single piece of very stiff aluminum...oh yeah, and the 3 way design. Except for all that, I bet they sound remarkably similar. I mean, look at it!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
I don't think anyone realizes the older line was much more money when they came out.

Sm45 was $599 for fist year until they had a price drop

Sm55 was $899

Sm65 was $1100

They realized that was WAY to much money and then lowered prices.

This demand line will be the same. They'll be much cheaper then that msrp. They are a sound united company that cuts corners to save money then heavily discounts to trick people into GREAT deals. Denon, marantz, Polk and definitive are all one big happy family now.

Sm45 are $80 each now. Which is a good deal but honestly they aren't worth much more than that after you hear them.

Hopefully definitive will return to a top notch AMERICAN speaker company. Not just another sell out to the highest Chinese bidder. I have dozens of definitive products in my homes. Last good product they made was a decade ago. Now they are just like klipsch or Polk audio.

As I'm complaining I should bring up that klipsch ruined energy and mirage too. So it happens in this industry. Just sucks.
I didn't know the prices were that high or different when they first came out. What scared me about all these dealer sold speakers is when I talked to someone in the industry and they said a dealer won't sell a speaker unless they get a 50% mark-up. Then you add in advertising costs and these speaker companies only put in 10-15% of the cost into parts. When I heard that I was floored! I'm looking for the opposite of that next time around.

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post #29 of 44 Old 09-13-2017, 01:44 PM
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At least definitive has a bunch of r&d into their products.

Some of these ID companies have zero to none. They even build something then in first 6 months they change or fix the issue.
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post #30 of 44 Old 09-14-2017, 07:31 PM
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At least definitive has a bunch of r&d into their products.

Some of these ID companies have zero to none. They even build something then in first 6 months they change or fix the issue.
And some have a ton such as Ascend acoustics and RSL speakers. Tons of research, prototypes and engineering. Talk to the owners and you'll get an idea of what the good ones go through.

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