Ceilings, walls, who knows? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 09-22-2017, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Ceilings, walls, who knows?

Ok guys im, trying to figure this out, so can some one just tell me where to put speakers once and for all, lol. Room is 17x22, with only 74 inch ceiling in one half(17x11), then 81 inch on other half(17x11)I'm doing an AT screen, the screen will go on 17 foot wall. I might not make it a complete square room, one side wall might be open. I will attach a pic. So, I was thinking three towers behind screen. L, center, R. Do I need towers in front? Or some other kind? Where does the sub go, and rears, and should I have sides? Do they go in ceilings? In walls? In very back wall or just the side wall to the rear?
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post #2 of 13 Old 09-22-2017, 07:53 PM
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The first step is to identify how many speakers you can properly place in your room. This is a good place to start:

https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technolo...guidelines.pdf
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post #3 of 13 Old 09-22-2017, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I have no clue, that's why I'm asking, haha. Some people say cause my height is so low, not to get atmos, is that true? I was thinking 5,7, or 9?
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post #4 of 13 Old 09-23-2017, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleJack123 View Post
Well I have no clue, that's why I'm asking, haha. Some people say cause my height is so low, not to get atmos, is that true? I was thinking 5,7, or 9?
Hey, can you try the thumbnails again? They are not visible, and would help a lot.

The quality of your speakers has by far the biggest effect on quality and enjoyment. I would start with the best 5 (or even just 2) speakers, and keep adding only as you can get funds to get something really good.
--> You need to identify how much money you can spend at this time.
Otherwise, our opinions won't be too helpful.
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post #5 of 13 Old 09-23-2017, 09:33 AM
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74" Ceilings ... so the ceiling are 6ft 2inch?

Will you have more than one row of seating? (probably not)

Will the seating be back against the rear wall, or forward, more out in the open?

Unless you are willing to consider Stereo, then I would suggest you start with a 5.1 Surround Sound system.

Exactly how you would place 5.1 in that room will depend on where the Prime Seat is placed. If the Prime seat is out in the open, then the Side Surround Speakers should be ... at the side, perhaps just slightly behind the seating position. If the Prime Seat is on or virtually on the back wall, the mount the speaker on the wall above the Sofa (I assume a sofa) and perhaps to the sides a bit, and by 'to the sides' I mean placed wider on the back wall than the width of the sofa. The speaker should be mounted above your head when you are seated. The general rule is head height when standing (roughly).

A lot of factors some into play.

Is this room finished, or are you in the process of building it now? If you are in the process of building it, then it makes it very easy to place the wiring in the walls and ceiling to accommodate speaker placement.

Lastly, where is this room? Basement? Cellar? Attic? Other? Depending on the room and how it is finished, it would be wise to place some basic room treatment in the room to control acoustics. That way you are not listening to music and trying to watch movies in a echo chamber.

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post #6 of 13 Old 09-24-2017, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewizard View Post
74" Ceilings ... so the ceiling are 6ft 2inch?

Will you have more than one row of seating? (probably not)

Will the seating be back against the rear wall, or forward, more out in the open?

Unless you are willing to consider Stereo, then I would suggest you start with a 5.1 Surround Sound system.

Exactly how you would place 5.1 in that room will depend on where the Prime Seat is placed. If the Prime seat is out in the open, then the Side Surround Speakers should be ... at the side, perhaps just slightly behind the seating position. If the Prime Seat is on or virtually on the back wall, the mount the speaker on the wall above the Sofa (I assume a sofa) and perhaps to the sides a bit, and by 'to the sides' I mean placed wider on the back wall than the width of the sofa. The speaker should be mounted above your head when you are seated. The general rule is head height when standing (roughly).

A lot of factors some into play.

Is this room finished, or are you in the process of building it now? If you are in the process of building it, then it makes it very easy to place the wiring in the walls and ceiling to accommodate speaker placement.

Lastly, where is this room? Basement? Cellar? Attic? Other? Depending on the room and how it is finished, it would be wise to place some basic room treatment in the room to control acoustics. That way you are not listening to music and trying to watch movies in a echo chamber.

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Well, i am gonna try my best to do two rows, even though it seems i can't. the dimensions are going be 17(wide) by 20 long. Its 22, but I'm building an ATS screen wall. the one side wall Id like to leave open. Now from the screen to about 10 foot, where id like to place my first row, the height is 74 inches. Then it steps up from that to the back wall at 81 inches. Thats where my projector will go, in that area, and have it hang down to throw image at shorter area. That way the seats are where you'd be sitting/standing. All that said, if I only have three walls, so as your looking at the screen, the wall to the left would be open, where would you mount the speakers? In the ceiling, the back wall, the sides? Would you put the sub behind the AT screen, in the corner(since its already built out 2 foot)? Would you use the same tower speaker behind the screen for a center speaker. It will be used for only movies. Also, I'm wondering do i need an amp, or just a receiver? Lots of questions....hmmmm.
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post #7 of 13 Old 09-24-2017, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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oh yeah, its a basement and completely unfinished as of now, minus insulation hanging on concrete walls. No studs yet. Would love to hear how to control acoustics. By the way, my screen is gonna be 12 inches off the ground, so if you have any ideas on how I can get a second row would be great. People are talking me into a 2.35, 156" screen and Epson 5040 mounted 16 foot back over a table top, with barstools. Id rather have a second row. I also wanted some opinions on a 16.9 projector setup, since the projectors seem a little cheaper, but would have to be mounted and capable of throwing 10 plus feet to shoot under those joists that are 7-8 inches lower...etc. lots of stuff to know. I guess that epson could be where only half the lens sticks lower but I don't understand all this stuff yet....Thanks
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post #8 of 13 Old 09-24-2017, 10:23 AM
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I'll address one issue that is a common mistake that people make far too often.

Don't make the screen so big that it leaves no room for speakers. Or... makes the screen impractical to view. There are on-line screen size calculators that can help you determine the best size screen for your room size and viewing distance.

Now you can use an Acoustically Transparent Screen, which is a nice idea, but have you checked the cost of them? I'm suspecting they are not cheap.

Also, can you explain the uneven floors or uneven ceiling. I'm just trying to understand how it can be 74" (6' 2") on one end and 81" (6' 9") on the other? I'm not saying it is not, I'm just trying to understand how and why. For example is the ceiling actually that low or are those the low spots where heating or pumping run under the ceiling? The more we know the better we can help.

You say a 156" (13ft) Screen, but is that diagonal? If so, with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio, the screen will be 5ft x 12ft (roughly).

You say the space will be 17ft wide and 20ft long, one assumes that does not count the open space to the side?

If you have two rows of seating, you will have to raise the second row probably at least 6". And it turns out, if I understand correctly the back of the room is 7" higher than the front of the room. So, a platform made of 2x6 plus a layer of 3/4" Plywood, is going to take you very close to 6". Whether a 6" platform is enough for you, in your circumstance, only you can determine. With the screen only 1ft from the floor, the rear seat are not only going to have to see over the heads of the front row, but they are going to have to be able to see down to see the bottom of the screen.

If you go for a 4ft x 9.4ft screen (1:2.35), that is still pretty big, and would allow the screen to be 2ft off the floor (roughly). Easier to view from the back row.

You have to treat every aspect of the room with respect to every other aspect of the room. Sound, lighting, seating, sound system, speaker placement, screen size, and room acoustics - each will effect the other.

If you can afford an Acoustically Transparent Screen, so much the better. In that case, it is possible for you to have 3 identical speakers across the Front. Say 3 floorstanding speakers ...on the assumption... that you can find someone to sell you ONE (or 3) Floorstanding speakers. In the USA, floorstanding speakers are frequently priced as EACH, but are only sold in PAIRs.

There are many places you can buy Acoustic Panels, and Acoustic Foam. There are many videos on YouTube about both. There are many YouTube videos on making your own Acoustic Panels, which really isn't that hard and can be done with only the most basic tools.

I would say, generally you want some treatment behind the speakers. Then at the First Reflection Points for both rows of seating. These can be determined by sitting in the first row Prime Seat Center, then having someone slide a mirror along the wall until you can see the speakers in the mirror. Keeping in mind you will have TWO speaker (left/right) and you will not see them at the same point along the wall. Then repeat the process for the second row of seating.

With low ceilings, though we don't know the nature of those ceiling, you might want to put Foam Acoustical Tile on the ceiling. It doesn't need to be 100% coverage. Again you can use a mirror to find the First Reflection Point on the ceiling and place Acoustic Tile there. More at the point of first reflection, and less else where. You want some reflection in the room, you just don't want the reflection to dominate the sound.

As to the far back wall, perhaps a blend of Acoustic Diffusers and Acoustic Panels. There are also videos about how to make your own Acoustic Diffusers. Again not a complex task, and do-able with even basic tools.

Acoustic Panels and Acoustic Foam absorb reflections.

Acoustic Difusers break up a solid wave front, and scatter it as many smaller wave-front moving in all directions and with different timing.



That's all for now.

Steve/bluewizard

Last edited by bluewizard; 09-24-2017 at 10:29 AM.
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post #9 of 13 Old 09-24-2017, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Above it is a sunken family room on one half(left)
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post #10 of 13 Old 09-24-2017, 12:34 PM
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Above it is a sunken family room on one half(left)
There's no photo attached!

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post #11 of 13 Old 09-24-2017, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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post #12 of 13 Old 09-25-2017, 11:06 AM
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Did this post
Go to your USER CP (user control panel), you will see it on the Top Right right next to LOG OUT.

Scroll down to ATTACHMENTS, select it, and see if your images are there. There is an option down near the bottom to show thumbnails of your stored Attachements.

Do you see the photos you tried to up load?

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post #13 of 13 Old 09-25-2017, 03:41 PM
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Better to put the screen on the tall side, allowing it to be higher than 1' off the ground. Even then, the extra 6" from a riser might not be enough to clear the front seats and heads of the front viewers.

I would consider using a smaller screen and just sit a touch closer. That configuration would give the same visual impression, but allow the screen to be mounted higher, possibly giving you the clearance needed to see the entire screen from the back row. Seat and head height on the front row will matter! Do some preliminary calculations with various seating options ...

Oddly, given the room height, you will have to have the tall people in the front and the short people in the back (otherwise the tall people will hit their heads on the ceiling due to the riser!).

Frankly, you may just want to reconsider the riser option ...

Last edited by RayGuy; 09-25-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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