Why Not Bose? - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 1561 Old 03-31-2006, 12:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Up to three years ago, I would have agreed with you.

Then I got a subscription to Maximum PC magazine. They stated that their reviewers never communicate with their sales. I was very skeptical until the second issue. They thoroughly ripped to shreds some new Iomega product (I think they gave it two out of a ten rating) and made disparaging remarks about the product. Then I turned the page - and the VERY NEXT PAGE was a full two page Iomega spread touting their new product. I knew this magazine was different.

More recently they ran a power supply comparison, and the company (XConnect) that had been running six months of ads on the rear cover, came in dead last out of five different power supplies.

This is one great magazine, and I've written the editor plenty of times for them to come out with Maximum HT (Home Theater). I am so sick and tired of every reviewer acting as though every speaker is the "best thing in their price range".

--SimpleTheater

---------------------

You do get those who break the mold

Lots of courage, I'll check them out!
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post #542 of 1561 Old 03-31-2006, 01:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I won't stone you - and if the argument is "I want small sat speakers" I still won't argue.

But for $3K, you can get:
1) NAD T743 Receiver..................................$699
2) NAD T514..............................................$299
3) [2] Definitive BP 6B front speakers.............$598
4) Definitive 2300 Center Channel..................$599
5) [2] Definitive BP1.2X...............................$348
6) Definitive ProSub 100TL...........................$449
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total....................................................$2, 992

And I think the above system would just blow away any (not just Bose), any sub/sat system.

--SimpleTheater

---------------

absolutely! In general I'm very impressed by Definitive and NAD no doubt they sound better than a Bose in any comparable listening environment.

Now the question is why would so many people pay so much more to getting an inferior product. The closest analogy I came up with is this:

Consider two cars, the Honda 2000 and a Ferrari. Now Car and Driver has the Honda 2000 as one of their top 10 cars. Now increase the price of the Honda 2000 by 100K to 134K so that the Honda 2000 and the Ferrari cost the same! Would it make the Honda 2000 a worse car? technically it would be the same car, but the value proposition would change. Clearly, Car and Driver would probably slam it as a 10 worst! It would be underpowered and the workmanship would clearly not justify the cost.

Now imagine if one year later you find the Honda 2000 at 134K sold 10X as many units as the Ferrari...what would you think?

Well....

(I have nothing against Honda or the 2000, probably the Honda is more reliable than the Ferrari who know, maybe the warranty is better? My point is that the problem with Bose is that their price points don't justify what their product offer - but then even I ended up with a Bose after all my analysis and all!!!!!!!)
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post #543 of 1561 Old 03-31-2006, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Up to three years ago, I would have agreed with you.

Then I got a subscription to Maximum PC magazine. They stated that their reviewers never communicate with their sales. I was very skeptical until the second issue. They thoroughly ripped to shreds some new Iomega product (I think they gave it two out of a ten rating) and made disparaging remarks about the product. Then I turned the page - and the VERY NEXT PAGE was a full two page Iomega spread touting their new product. I knew this magazine was different.

More recently they ran a power supply comparison, and the company (XConnect) that had been running six months of ads on the rear cover, came in dead last out of five different power supplies.

This is one great magazine, and I've written the editor plenty of times for them to come out with Maximum HT (Home Theater). I am so sick and tired of every reviewer acting as though every speaker is the "best thing in their price range".

--SimpleTheater

Wow, good for Max PC mag.!

Going a little off topic here, I agree that XConnect is a lousy PSU. Too bad people horde them up when they're on sale for a ridiculously low price. They eventually pay the price when their computers randomly shut down when doing gaming, etc.

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post #544 of 1561 Old 04-01-2006, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by beowulf7 View Post

Wow, good for Max PC mag.!

Going a little off topic here, I agree that XConnect is a lousy PSU. Too bad people horde them up when they're on sale for a ridiculously low price. They eventually pay the price when their computers randomly shut down when doing gaming, etc.

Hopefully shutting down is all it does.

my NADs are new
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post #545 of 1561 Old 04-01-2006, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by emorphien View Post

Hopefully shutting down is all it does.

Yeah, I would assume that it would not be fire-prone, otherwise that would lead to lawsuits galore.

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post #546 of 1561 Old 05-03-2006, 09:34 PM
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I'm looking at buying a Corvette that has a Bose audio system as an option. Is this a good sound system? I know Bose generally makes over-priced mediocre home audio systems. I wonder if the same applies to their car audio stuff.
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post #547 of 1561 Old 05-03-2006, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Too Many Wires View Post

I'm looking at buying a Corvette that has a Bose audio system as an option. Is this a good sound system? I know Bose generally makes over-priced mediocre home audio systems. I wonder if the same applies to their car audio stuff.

Bose sucks everywhere. My Acura RSX-S came with a Bose premium sound system. It blows. Had it not been for my 10" subwoofer in the hatch, my Bose audio system would have had less bass than the average alarm clock. Hell, I think my cell phone speakers' (plural since my phone has stereo speakers) has more bass than my car Bose "woofer".

Anyway, you should not pay a premium for that Corvette just because it has the optional Bose audio system.

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post #548 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 05:54 AM
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Man, I love reading these Bose threads-- can't get enough of them.

But, I like to offer my thoughts.

1) So, you, us, we or I are in the know about Bose. We need to relax. Some people like, Bose sound, many don't. I truly understand why we want friends, relatives and others to get value and performance out of their audio products. But sometimes, you have to let sleeping dogs lie.

2) HTPCs. If you are so inclined, you can build one for yourself, and beat in quality what you would purchase from most anyone.
Check out: http://www.htpcnews.com/
Google: XBMC, MythTV, Meedio and Beyond TV
I would think a lot of noise issues could be mitigated by having a server PCs and optical out to your a/v receiver. I have a decent setup with a modded xbox, that can act as jukebox and my optical out goes into my a/v receiver. You can also stream video, audio, use Tivo-like program if your hook up a tuner card to your htpc and you are set. It's a fun, if sometimes daunting set up.
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post #549 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by radio1 View Post

1) So, you, us, we or I are in the know about Bose. We need to relax. Some people like, Bose sound, many don't. I truly understand why we want friends, relatives and others to get value and performance out of their audio products. But sometimes, you have to let sleeping dogs lie.

I've asked this question before, and I still can't articulate a response so maybe you can help. Here is what has transpired on two different occasions in my own backyard:

Neighbor So I heard you're building a home theater.
Me Yes.
Neighbor What's this stuff on the walls.
Me Acoustic board from Owens Corning. Its for absorbing some sound.
Neighbor Oh, so you're like really into sound.
Me Yeah, I really want it to sound as close to perfect as possible.
Neighbor So you must be getting Bose speakers.
Me [my eyes roll], Bose is one of the worst speakers you can buy. I won't be putting any Bose in my HT.
Neighbor [feeling bad] Oh, well good luck.

So how do I "nicely" say Bose sucks, without actually making these people feel stupid and small?

--SimpleTheater

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #550 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

So how do I "nicely" say Bose sucks, without actually making these people feel stupid and small?

--SimpleTheater

"Bose is great at marketing, but you can get a lot better sound with other brands."

Tony

In search of the Holy Grail.

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post #551 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

"Bose is great at marketing, but you can get a lot better sound with other brands."

Thats what my wife says to say, but that seems to imply that Bose is simply overpriced.

For example, we have this nice little place that sells wood chimes. They are 3x more expensive then other wood chimes, but they are still fine wood chimes, just over priced. I want to get across the point that you can get better sound than Bose at the same price, 1/2 the price and probably 1/3 the price.

--SimpleTheater

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #552 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 06:53 AM
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Friends don't let friends buy Bose.
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post #553 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 08:13 AM
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There is no reason to tell someone who owns something that it sucks unless you have an ego problem. Just tell them you found (or are looking for) a brand of speakers that you really like. If you are not worried about hurting their feelings, and/or they don't own Bose, just say that you find that there are better-sounding speakers out there, [for the money].
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post #554 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 09:05 AM
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There is no reason to tell someone who owns something that it sucks unless you have an ego problem.

Or you can't stand the person because they're a jerk.

Not that I'm speaking from personal experience or anything.
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post #555 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 09:46 AM
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Yeah I forgot to mention that too. Another thing: Bose are wife-friendly, for sure.

Anyway, I need some good [looking] speakers. See my other post in this thread...
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post #556 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 09:57 AM
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Anyway, I need some good [looking] speakers. See my other post in this thread...

The Mirage Omnisats would fit the bill, plus they sound a hell of a lot better.
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post #557 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 10:08 AM
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Sorry a little off topic, but funny anyway:

BOSE makes suspension systems for cars too...Look on their website (I guess I can't post URL's here)

"The Bose sSuspension
The proprietary Bose suspension system couples linear electromagnetic motors and power amplifiers with a set of unique control algorithms. For the first time, it is possible to have, in the same automobile, a much smoother ride than in any luxury sedan and less roll and pitch than in any sports car. The Bose research vehicle provides superior comfort by gliding smoothly over bumpy roads and superior control by keeping the car body level during aggressive maneuvers."

They probably use plastic bolts, and "revolutionary new space-aged paper" to hold it all together.
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post #558 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Then I got a subscription to Maximum PC magazine. They stated that their reviewers never communicate with their sales. I was very skeptical until the second issue. They thoroughly ripped to shreds some new Iomega product (I think they gave it two out of a ten rating) and made disparaging remarks about the product. Then I turned the page - and the VERY NEXT PAGE was a full two page Iomega spread touting their new product. I knew this magazine was different.

More recently they ran a power supply comparison, and the company (XConnect) that had been running six months of ads on the rear cover, came in dead last out of five different power supplies.

This is one great magazine, and I've written the editor plenty of times for them to come out with Maximum HT (Home Theater). I am so sick and tired of every reviewer acting as though every speaker is the "best thing in their price range".

I totally agree man. This is a great magazine! Too bad audio mags aren't the same. They are actually worried about losing their customers instead of helping the readers of their magazines. More power to Maximum PC! Down with Stereophile! LOL just kidding Kal!

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post #559 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 01:02 PM
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American beer tastes like shandy. Try a proper drink- Murphy's, Guiness, paint stripper etc ;-)

I've heard that the only reason the Brits like warm beer is because they all have Lucas Refrigerators!
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post #560 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 01:30 PM
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Wow, that is a quote from almost day 1!!!!!

Oh, as for how to say it, the best is the cost thing.

The problem is, it is difficult to tell people that they really do suck for the cost. Marketing has done their job.

A good beer comparison, besides Bud, would be Corona.

Corona is not a HORRIBLE beer, but it is cheap piss-water. It was sold like cheap piss-water for years at many a place. So for $1 you could get a bottle, with or without the frigging lime, and drink up.

Now that the marketing people show nothing but tropical islands (like we know so many people are at while drinking, buying, or making this beer) their prices have skyrocketed and so have their sales.

So the lesson learned is that, so long as you can find a niche, and sell to it with creative and aggressive advertising, you really do not need to have anything special to sell!
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post #561 of 1561 Old 05-04-2006, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Thats what my wife says to say, but that seems to imply that Bose is simply overpriced.

For example, we have this nice little place that sells wood chimes. They are 3x more expensive then other wood chimes, but they are still fine wood chimes, just over priced. I want to get across the point that you can get better sound than Bose at the same price, 1/2 the price and probably 1/3 the price.

--SimpleTheater

You answered your question. When someone (like your neighbor) asks you "Why aren't you getting Bose", you can say, "Bose is not that great. "

Procrastination is the thief of time.
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temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety.

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The mind gets too empty.

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post #562 of 1561 Old 05-05-2006, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by beowulf7 View Post

You answered your question. When someone (like your neighbor) asks you "Why aren't you getting Bose", you can say, "Bose is not that great. "

I'm a freakin' genius! I just needed someone else to tell me.

--SimpleTheater

Why is there NO perfect equipment, only compromises?
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post #563 of 1561 Old 05-05-2006, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I'm a freakin' genius! I just needed someone else to tell me.

--SimpleTheater

LOL! You funny guy you.

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post #564 of 1561 Old 05-05-2006, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Too Many Wires View Post

I'm looking at buying a Corvette that has a Bose audio system as an option. Is this a good sound system? I know Bose generally makes over-priced mediocre home audio systems. I wonder if the same applies to their car audio stuff.

My mother has a 2000 Mercedes ML320 and my father has a 1999 ML430 - both have Blowse systems. They sound absolutely horrible, in fact most people on the M-Class forums change out their audio systems completely, including the head unit which is only "Bose compatible". Since Bose has their speaker amplifiers right at the speakers, the headunit acts as only a preamp. They use a 7 inch subwoofer directly below the driver's seat in a bandpass enclosure. It sounds so muddy and boomy...then distorts at high levels. The door woofers have no treble whatsoever and distort even at normal levels of music volume.
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post #565 of 1561 Old 05-05-2006, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

I'm a freakin' genius! I just needed someone else to tell me.

--SimpleTheater

No problem.

Let's see who else I can turn into a genius.

Procrastination is the thief of time.
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post #566 of 1561 Old 05-05-2006, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by JaceTheAce View Post

My mother has a 2000 Mercedes ML320 and my father has a 1999 ML430 - both have Blowse systems. They sound absolutely horrible, in fact most people on the M-Class forums change out their audio systems completely, including the head unit which is only "Bose compatible". Since Bose has their speaker amplifiers right at the speakers, the headunit acts as only a preamp. They use a 7 inch subwoofer directly below the driver's seat in a bandpass enclosure. It sounds so muddy and boomy...then distorts at high levels. The door woofers have no treble whatsoever and distort even at normal levels of music volume.

I hate bose as much as anyone else, but isn't it a good thing that the woofers don't have any treble?

- Jehr
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post #567 of 1561 Old 05-22-2006, 05:36 PM
 
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I love bose! I don't see what wrong. My Cars have them, my whole house is wired with bose. I have even convinced my kids that bose is the best. My son now saves up his money to buy bose speakers. He now had Acoustimass 5 seakers and triport headphones. It sounds GREAT and is wife friendly.
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post #568 of 1561 Old 05-22-2006, 06:05 PM
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It's not a matter of seeing what is wrong with them as hearing what is wrong with them.
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post #569 of 1561 Old 05-22-2006, 08:35 PM
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I was once shopping for a pair of bookshelf speakers, and I had my heart set on Bose 301s. The salesman was suggesting Energy and another brand. I didn't trust him, so even though the sound of the others was better, I went with the Bose--the Bose had poor highs and lows (what else is new?).

The "reputation" sure gets in the of way of making rational decisions. Even one's own ears don't always help. Throw in the fact that you have just spent what was a lot of money at the time, and we become really good at deluding ourselves.

The only way to do it is with a blindfold in your own house. Good luck with that. It's always a crap shoot.

If you read enough here you'll go nuts--total speaker, amp, sub envy all the time.

Stay away from the bose, but if you do keep it, just remember that the sound will be better than what you had. It's like a hotel room that had a smoker in it--eventually you won't notice the smell--until you listen to a friend's system that blows yours away for 2/3 the price.

Yes, I'm rambling; no, I don't really have a point.

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post #570 of 1561 Old 05-23-2006, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mziegler View Post

Stay away from the bose, but if you do keep it, just remember that the sound will be better than what you had. It's like a hotel room that had a smoker in it--eventually you won't notice the smell--until you listen to a friend's system that blows yours away for 2/3 the price.

Or even more embarassingly, 1/3 the price.

I still shudder remembering just how awful my friend's Bose 1-2-3 sounds, worse than many boom-boxes in fact.
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