nht digital speaker systems - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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dans03's Avatar dans03 07:26 PM 10-19-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall
Oh, yeah, and for Kal's excellent writing ;)
Kal - that review is a keeper!
The kind you cut out and file along with the owner's manual and receipts.

Excellent writing as usual - John's section is comprehensive - with a follow-up yet to come. Can't get any better than that,

Thank you.

Must be why I've been a happy subscriber for > 20 years.

So - damn right - pony up the five bucks - it's a very nice issue.

John - can't wait to see the dark version.

DanS

Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson 07:30 PM 10-19-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by dans03
Kal - that review is a keeper!
The kind you cut out and file along with the owner's manual and receipts.

Excellent writing as usual - John's section is comprehensive - with a follow-up yet to come. Can't get any better than that,

Thank you.

Must be why I've been a happy subscriber for > 20 years.

So - damn right - pony up the five bucks - it's a very nice issue.

John - can't wait to see the dark version.

DanS
Thanks. It helps that the product is something distinctive and not just another box of parts.

Kal
MarketingProf's Avatar MarketingProf 09:07 PM 10-19-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by dans03
Kal - that review is a keeper!
The kind you cut out and file along with the owner's manual and receipts.

Excellent writing as usual - John's section is comprehensive - with a follow-up yet to come. Can't get any better than that,

Thank you.

Must be why I've been a happy subscriber for > 20 years.

So - damn right - pony up the five bucks - it's a very nice issue.

John - can't wait to see the dark version.

DanS
So, like, should I cancel my 8:00am class in New Product Development and my 11:00am class in Consumer Behavior so I can read this when my mail comes at 10:00am? Don't know if I can wait till I get home at 5:00.
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 09:09 PM 10-19-2005
I could do a whole talk for your students on consumer behavior just based on Xd.
dans03's Avatar dans03 06:58 AM 10-20-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingProf
So, like, should I cancel my 8:00am class in New Product Development and my 11:00am class in Consumer Behavior so I can read this when my mail comes at 10:00am? Don't know if I can wait till I get home at 5:00.


Take the whole day - life is short.
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 10:12 AM 10-20-2005
Darn, maybe I shouldn't have left my subscription lapse.
Mr Clean's Avatar Mr Clean 01:12 PM 10-20-2005
Yeah, I tried to pick up a copy at the newstand but the October issue is still there...

J
MarketingProf's Avatar MarketingProf 01:18 PM 10-20-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall
I could do a whole talk for your students on consumer behavior just based on Xd.
What would the tiltle of the lecture be?

"The Compulsive Tendencies of Holy Grail Audiophile Consumers and Their Interaction with Active Speaker Digital Equalization" :D :D :D
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 01:20 PM 10-20-2005
with the subtitle:

Or "The kind of crap I have to put up with" :)
Jack Hidley's Avatar Jack Hidley 02:11 PM 10-20-2005
Clean,

The M-60Xd can only play 2dB louder than the consumer Xd above 200Hz, but there are some other differences.

The M-60Xd will do it with lower distortion since it uses a larger driver that will have less excursion. The M-60Xd is very wide dispersion compared to the majority of near field monitors, but it stall has more restricted dispersion than the consumer Xd system has. This is by design.
Mr Clean's Avatar Mr Clean 04:43 PM 10-20-2005
Sounds interesting, but the amazing dispersion of the "regular" Xd is a superb hook, one that I am not ready to give up. I "downgraded" :p from bigger, louder speakers because a move to a new state drastically reduced the size of my listening room - the Xds are pretty much a perfect fit for my situation.

I agree with the people that say putting a Super Xd out there might really do a number on your competition. Hopefully, the new business arrangement at NHT will free up the resources needed to do it, if that's what you decide to do.

In any event, this is my first experience with NHT, and I have to say I really like what I hear and what I don't hear (a ton of marketing hyperbole). Hopefully you guys can remain true to your design philosophy through the latest acquisition.

Jim
Jack Hidley's Avatar Jack Hidley 06:36 PM 10-20-2005
Jim,

If we had any doubt about maintaining our design philosophy, we would never have let the deal go through. None of the companies we talked to were interested in purchasing an empty building.

A Super Xd is certainly possible due to the flexible architecture of the XdA.

I've gotta run now and change all my e-mail addresses before John sends me 200 e-mails about how we should design it:)
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 06:47 PM 10-20-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley
I've gotta run now and change all my e-mail addresses before John sends me 200 e-mails about how we should design it:)
Hey! I resemble that comment! I prefer to think of it as brainstorming.

Actually, you don't have to worry so much, I'm on a federal policy wonk mission that has me busy - 75 submissions and counting. These people actually PAY if they use your idea. :P
MarketingProf's Avatar MarketingProf 02:56 PM 10-26-2005
Just got my copy today. Nice review Kal.

Of course, JA's measurements are much more detailed and indicate that the speaker is superbly designed. That said, I do like to play loud from time to time and the apparent dynamic limitations may make wonder if I should wait for the next iteration.

According to the description in the article, NHT claims peak output at 114db, which would seem to be as loud as I would ever want or need.

Also, why does JA say "I have no means of assessing dynamic range..."? What am I missing here?

David
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 03:10 PM 10-26-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingProf
Also, why does JA say "I have no means of assessing dynamic range..."?
All those years of listening to B&Ws! :D That's one area that I think Stereophile should measure - distortion for a given output.

Actually, the only thing that would seriously tax an Xd system, IMO, is a very large room or HT at very high volumes. You can play music as loud as any adult would want to hear it and they're crystal clear. Most speakers sound audibly strained at volumes the Xds handle with aplomb. It's all relative. I'd say output is really a problem for 1 in 20 people. I've heard plenty of $5K and $10K speakers that can't match the output of the Xd with any kind of low distortion. Especially in the midrange where lots of speakers simply lose it (and most never had it). And a lot of people are simply afraid to turn them up. I know I was at first. And I know I haven't maxed them out. Most of it is perception and/or fear of breaking them. There are speakers that play louder, but it's a matter of whether you really would use that output.

And I'll only say that, in the two areas where Kal thinks Xd is inferior to a B&W Diamond are two places where I think the Xd is clearly superior, IMO, and where the B&Ws traditionally fall down (and certainly the 803D does). But that's subjectivity for you. ;)
Jack Hidley's Avatar Jack Hidley 03:23 PM 10-26-2005
David,

I think that John's comments about not being able to measure dynamic range are related to the fact that he uses MLSSA for his acoustic measurements. MLSSA is not very capable of measuring dynamic range (linearity) or distortion very well. John does have an AP, but I assume that it is an older System 1 without the DSP option. If it were a model with the DSP option he could easily measure linearity and distortion.
MarketingProf's Avatar MarketingProf 03:47 PM 10-26-2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley
David,

I think that John's comments about not being able to measure dynamic range are related to the fact that he uses MLSSA for his acoustic measurements. MLSSA is not very capable of measuring dynamic range (linearity) or distortion very well. John does have an AP, but I assume that it is an older System 1 without the DSP option. If it were a model with the DSP option he could easily measure linearity and distortion.
Jack,

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

BTW, I was very impressed with the dynamic range of my old 2.5i's (so impressed in fact that I can't bear to sell them and listen to them regularly even though I have long since "upgraded" to other speakers). I've measured peaks of over 115dB with no strain or compression that I could hear. Of course, I was out on the deck using a stick to hold the dB meter in the room. :D

David
cue03's Avatar cue03 06:35 AM 12-07-2005
anyone else buy these yet?
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 07:41 AM 12-07-2005
I just set up three more sets but they're not AVS types. Surprisingly, AVS types probably aren't in the key demographic. Xds are designed to give world class performance to people who *aren't* avid audiophiles or hobbyists. IOW, I wouldn't expect most of the people buying Xds to get on the internet and talk about them. Most will be too busy enjoying music and not caring about "equipment". Few of the [dozens of] people I have waiting for Xds have any idea what AVS is.
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 08:42 AM 02-09-2006
A few items of note - Xds have been shipping in big quantities for a good 6 weeks and the first Special Dark arrived a week ago with more coming.

And......I know this is a stretch, but we're going to the only public multi-channel demo of Xd to ever occur in the world as far as I know. Most dealers only have one demo set, I have three (and those are usually spread out). So, we're going to put all these together at the ABQ Museum of Art and History on March 5th for one full day of nothing but multi-channel music and video. I don't know if that is worth travel for most, but it might be for some, so I thought I'd mention it here too. You can send me an e-mail if you have questions about the event - john@adnm.com
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 12:09 PM 02-11-2006
Good news! Jack Hidley has agreed to come and mingle with the folks at the demo (from previous page)! I may not be worth a plane ticket, but Jack probably is :)
ericgl's Avatar ericgl 03:04 PM 02-11-2006
John,


Can you provide more details?
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 03:35 PM 02-11-2006
Here's the location - http://www.cabq.gov/museum/ in the small auditorium. There's a Picasso exhibit going on as well.

So far, the plans are to do either 6.3 or 7.4 surround, all Xd. Since Jack is coming, I'll use the NHT Controller as the preamp/processor, the NAD M55 will be the source. InFocus has promised a prototype IN76 720p DLP projector. Jack may do a talk or two, or we'll just play lots and lots of sound and just talk to people outside. It's up to him. Maybe a power point. The thing is, it will be a "streaming" group of people, so it will be hard to do much unless we do it in maybe 10 minute bites. I won't be able to play at ultra high volumes because it can't piss off the other visitors, but we can get away with reasonable volumes. It will primarily be multi-channel music and video. If the video proves too loud or rumbly for the museum, we'll go straight to all 5.1 music, which should be no problem. Preferably, the movie selections will be more realistic and less explosion oriented, just to ward off problems, but we'll see what we can get away with.

Outside, I'm going to have, with a little luck, a pair of NHT Classic Threes, a pair of Twelve subs and the NAD M3 integrated fed by a Mac Mini or iPod, just to give people a taste of those. This is still up in the air because I have to get permission from the museum for this part. But I'll probably play Spanish music to compliment the Picasso exhibit.
ericgl's Avatar ericgl 03:42 PM 02-11-2006
Date and hours? I might be up for a road trip from Houston.
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 04:47 PM 02-11-2006
Oh, sorry! Sunday, March 5th, 10am-5pm, snacks will be served!
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 05:26 PM 02-19-2006
I've decided to add a second date - March 12th - in order to accommodate more people more easily with less crowding and give people another option, though I'm sure Jack can only make the 5th. I'm hoping to have some "value added" stuff going on at the same time if I can pull it off.
mle's Avatar mle 07:08 AM 02-21-2006
Hi,

This tickled my curiosity way more than is normal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall
Since Jack is coming, I'll use the NHT Controller as the preamp/processor, the NAD M55 will be the source.
Any details on the Controller? I could not find anything too easily, except for the NHT website (sorry, no url, fresh account). I'm one of the persons who tought that digital input and volume control would have made XdA perfect. Is this it?

Quote:
Our new preamp processor, the Controller, is more than a component. It is the powerful hub of our complete system approach. A system which acts as one thought, because the NHT components interact with each other and adjust to specific needs of the NHT speakers. Under the educated mind of the Controller, subtle signals are automatically adjusted, directed and managed. The result is effortless sound, that’s simple to set-up, affordable and smart.
  • NHT speaker DSP processing
  • HDMI 1.1 audio support for receiving Dolby Digital, DTS and 2 channel PCM via HDMI interface.
  • Intelligent operation with NHT Amplifiers
Beyond that, details are scarse on the website. Which NHT speakers are supported? What is included in "speaker DSP processing"?

--
Mikko
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 07:28 AM 02-21-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mle
Any details on the Controller? I could not find anything too easily, except for the NHT website (sorry, no url, fresh account).
Just pretty much what's on the website
Quote:

I'm one of the persons who tought that digital input and volume control would have made XdA perfect. Is this it?
No, unfortunately not. The XdA would need a complete redesign for that to happen, but I am sure that will occur at some time in the future.
Quote:

Beyond that, details are scarse on the website. Which NHT speakers are supported? What is included in "speaker DSP processing"?
NHT Classic, Super Audio, Evolution, iW/iC speakers. As I understand it, the unit can do something like 16 bands of parametric EQ in total and so that gives you 2-3 bands per speaker with adjustable height/width/center frequency. Since NHTs don't have major flaws in them, this just gives enough power to make a few minor tweaks that give a nice improvement to the sound and matching. I was hoping for older Music/Movie series support, but I guess there wasn't enough memory to include them. It also allows for the use of the NHT Evolution subwoofers without the need for the X1 crossover as the EQ curve for the subs are built in.

I'd say that even as a stereo preamp, this would be well worthwhile for most NHT owners. Beats spending money on cables!
Exocer's Avatar Exocer 10:56 PM 04-19-2006
This is a bit random, but does anyone know if NHT uses the seas Excel drivers in these digital systems? They look very similar.
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 10:58 PM 04-19-2006
Yes, those are the SEAS Excel W15s with a few minor changes.
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