nht digital speaker systems - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 540 Old 09-14-2004, 06:25 PM
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Using HDMI as a digital connection input into the Xd system is a possibility. If we decide to choose that route it wouldn't happen for quite a while since the system is being manufactured right now. It's a bit too soon to make an architectural change to the electronics.

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post #92 of 540 Old 10-27-2004, 10:07 PM
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To add a center speaker, do we need to have an extra Xda to do the processing/amplification?

Also, I am wondering what the price would be in Australia and when they would be available?


Regards,

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post #93 of 540 Old 10-27-2004, 11:48 PM
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Joseph,

Yes, for a center channel you purchase 1 XdS speaker and 1 XdA processor/amplifier.

I don't know what the price in Australia will be yet. I'll try to find out. Production should be finished by the end of November. Including transit time by boat, I think the Xd system should be available in Australia by Christmas.

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post #94 of 540 Old 10-28-2004, 10:05 PM
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Thanks Jack!

Just to make sure I understand probably, am I right to say one XdA is enough to drive (processing and amplifying) 3 XdS (L/C/R). What is the maximum number of XdS that a XdA can handle?


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post #95 of 540 Old 10-29-2004, 03:36 AM
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Joseph,

Each XdA can drive 2 XdS speakers. A 5.1 surround system would require 3 XdA and 5 XdS. This would leave you with 1 unused channel in one of the XdAs.

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post #96 of 540 Old 10-29-2004, 05:59 PM
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Jack,
Thank you for taking time to answer these questions; could the 2 center (front and rear) be run by the same XdAs?

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post #97 of 540 Old 11-02-2004, 04:28 PM
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Grady,

Yes, one XdA can drive both the front and rear center speakers. The XdA neither knows or cares what channel it's reproducing.

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post #98 of 540 Old 11-02-2004, 04:47 PM
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So the signal to the front & rear center speakers would be processed correctly?

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post #99 of 540 Old 11-02-2004, 04:55 PM
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Grady,

Yes.

To the outside world, the XdA behaves like a power amplifier. You send it an audio signal, it processes it and sends it to the XdS speaker for reproduction. What signal the XdA is sent to reproduce is completely a function of your preamp or surround proceesor.

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post #100 of 540 Old 11-02-2004, 05:23 PM
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I have a question: What is Room correction and how does it work? I am assuming it corrects frequency responce problems right? What are the things this processor will correct and is it automatic?

Also, how loud do you think this system would go for two channel listening in a 12x13x8 ft room? (While still sounding great) I am worried about the ten inch sub, is it loud enough to support bass heavy material?
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post #101 of 540 Old 11-02-2004, 07:23 PM
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Currently the XdA processor corrects for all of the linear frequency and phase response errors that are in the XdS loudspeaker. This is completely automatic. The user does not need to do anything.

In the future we will introduce a room correction option for the system. This will allow an installer to take some acoustic measurements of your room and program the XdA to have it correct for room acoustic issues below 300Hz. The actual room correction algorithm looks at the decay of energy in the room across the whole frequency spectrum. It uses this measurement to determine how much energy it should remove in the time and frequency domains at the frequencies where there are standing waves in the room. This will make the low frequencies sound smoother and less boomy.

The system will play LOUD in a 12' x 13' room. The bass module has two 10" woofers with a 500W amplifier. The limitation will be the output from the 5" driver in the XdS satellite.

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post #102 of 540 Old 12-09-2004, 02:19 PM
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Hi,
Has anyone had a chance to listen to these yet?

Would they work in concert with a sound processor that does room correcting?

Thanks!

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post #103 of 540 Old 12-09-2004, 02:43 PM
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I haven't had an opportunity to see if my local dealer has them yet. (Actually I'm trying to put off listening to these speakers as I'm sure I'll proceed to finding a way to pay for them...)

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post #104 of 540 Old 12-10-2004, 11:32 AM
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Even a Tact or Lexicon MC-12 version 4??? Hmmm.....
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post #105 of 540 Old 12-10-2004, 02:01 PM
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Joel,

There are several different facets at work here. The first is that the XdS is an active speaker system, which makes it easier to implement driver compensation directly into the amp, which is a good thing. Actually, I'm a HUGE fan of active speakers and rather annoyed that they've failed in the marketplace. Cheers to NHT in their attempt to resurrect the dead. :)

Secondly, we've gotta separate out speaker correction from room correction. As it so happens, NHT is not the only company that is presently working on speaker correction, just one of the ones we've been hearing alot about lately. I believe that Meridian is doing it as well, and ********** is working on their own version of SOCS(av123's term for speaker only correction). Even more interesting is that AV123 will be offering their measurement system to anyone in order to measure their own speakers, send the info to back to HQ, and in return will receive correction software that can be implemented in AV123's digital box. Both NHT and AV123 have the same idea in mind here...and a good idea it is!

Thirdly, when we're talking room equalization, there are just sooo many different conceptualizations on how to implement it properly, that you could merely scrape the surface in a thread like this. For starters, I'd be curious to know NHT's general philosophy regarding the issue, and how their system differs from some of the pricier ones previously mentioned. I couldn't find that info on the link you sent.

Bottom line is that I can't wait to hear this new little NHT miracle. :)

Ran
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post #106 of 540 Old 01-11-2005, 06:08 PM
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For what it's worth, some folks attending CES 2005 were favorably impressed by the NHT demo of this system:

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,119225,00.asp

Quote:
Truly sweet sounds: NHT's long-anticipated Xd DEQX Calibrated DSP speaker-corrected system will finally ship this month. The wait was well worth it--and seems likely to have a large impact on audio from the highest of the high end down to the mass market. Basically, the engineers at NHT, working with DEQX on DSP technology, and Power Physics on amplification, have produced an audio system that virtually eliminates speaker distortion.

The technology that makes this happen is too complex for this short item, but the end result is expansive, clean sound that doesn't require you to sit in a "sweet spot" to hear incredible stereo or, if you choose, multichannel audio. I've listened to many, many high-end stereo and multichannel systems in recent years, and this one produces sound unequalled in products four or five times the cost. Normally, when I'm in an audio demo, I'll hang around for a song or two. I didn't want to leave the NHT room.

The system, which includes an amplifier, two speakers, and a subwoofer will retail at about $5000 for two-channel stereo. Multichannel versions will cost substantially more. --Ramon G. McLeod
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post #107 of 540 Old 01-12-2005, 09:54 AM
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Curious if anyone knows (and or compared) the Phase Tech corrected speakers to the NHT set-up at CES. My understanding is that Phase Tech also has been working on this technology, but haven't heard any details.
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post #108 of 540 Old 01-31-2005, 09:18 PM
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The NHT Xd's have really piqued my curiosity of late. If they live up to all the accolades from the A/V press, I might consider changing from current speakers.

Can someone clarify something for me. At CEDIA 2004 or CES 2005, did NHT demo the system in Stereo or 5.1 Movie setup? I think all these glowing reviews alludes to 2-Channels and I wasn't clear if music sounded great in 2-ch or movies sounded excellent in 5.1 or both. If they did demonstrate it for 5.1 movies, what pre-pro did they use? I ask this question because I am curious if one needs to spend $$$ for a good pre/pro since the Xd's now have processing...

Finally does anyone here solid info when this system is to be released? I have heard all sorts of dates -- from Dec '04 to Feb '05 to Summer '05. Thanks.
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post #109 of 540 Old 01-31-2005, 10:52 PM
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CES 2005 is the first time that we demoed the Xd system in a surround setup. All other demoes were done as 2 channel demoes. At CES it was demoed as a 6.2 setup with a Fosgate Audionics FAPT1+ processor.

The Xd system does not do any surround sound processing. You still need your surround processor or signal source to do this. Nothing about the surround processor needs to be special.

We are just about to start shipping systems to dealers any day now.

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post #110 of 540 Old 01-31-2005, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack Hidley
CES 2005 is the first time that we demoed the Xd system in a surround setup. All other demoes were done as 2 channel demoes. At CES it was demoed as a 6.2 setup with a Fosgate Audionics FAPT1+ processor.

The Xd system does not do any surround sound processing. You still need your surround processor or signal source to do this. Nothing about the surround processor needs to be special.

We are just about to start shipping systems to dealers any day now.
Many thanks Jack.

I think I should have clarified my question. Since I use speakers for 95% home theater, I want to invest in a good surround processor. That said, I am a little confused about your statement "nothing about the surround processor needs to be special." May I ask for further clarification? Will there be any "improvement" in using a high grade processor such as a Lexicon, Integra, etc. vs. something like a Fosgate or Outlaw pre/pro? Or is a moot point once digital DD/DTS signals reaches the XdA DSP/amp? If the latter, then I will hold off on investing in a high end processor and save the money for the other satellites.

I do have some additonal questions, if you don't mind:

1. Is the MSRP $5 or 5.5K for the 2.1 system? Does that include cabling and matching speaker stands?

2. What is the MSRP for a 2.0 system sans subwoofer?

3. Is it required to buy a 2.1 system WITH a Xd sub? Can it still sound extraordinary without the Xd sub in a surround sound HT system? I already have a dedicated sub but if the system requires the Xd sub for complete integration, then I am not going to question that.

4. During your CES 2005 6.2 demo, how did you place the center channel? Was it on a speaker stand or on an A/V cabinet? Can you post any pictures of the CES demo because I have been able to find any pics of it (just the CEDIA demo).

Related to question #4 above, I have some center speaker concerns. I have a plasma and placing the speaker on a stand would be out of the question. I have never placed a 2-day monitor on my A/V cabinet (below the plasma) before. I am worried it would sound strange having a monitor vs. a M-T-M or M-M-T-M horizontal center speaker.

5. The Audioholics review noted the Xds to have extra wide disperion and wide sweet spot to boot. I have always read to the NHT's tend to be more focused. Are the Xds different it because of the digital processing? Is it the same tweeter as the Evolution line or something completely different?

I greatly appreciate any answers you can provide. The Xd system would have the potential to be very affordable if I don't have to purchase unecessary components.

By the way, I travel to the Bay Area a lot and noticed that NHT is located in Benicia. I was wondering if NHT was open to the public to stop by? Of course, if you are, I would love to hear the Xd system before purchasing from a local dealer. Thanks again.
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post #111 of 540 Old 02-01-2005, 05:05 AM
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The NHT Xd system appears to the consumer and the upstream components to be a power amplifier with a conventional analog input connected to a loudspeaker. The Xd amplifier/DSP processor (XdA) does not have any digital inputs. It has balanced and unbalanced analog audio inputs.

It is connected to the output of any preamp or surround processor just like any other power amplifier would be. In this sense, the surround processor does not need to be anything special. In fact, any special bass management features in the surround processor would be completely wasted since the XdA already does this.

You will of course be able to hear differences in the quality of different surround processors with the Xd system. The system makes it very easy to hear acoustic decays and reverb in recordings due to the very clean impulse response that the XdS speaker has.

1) The MSRP of $5500 includes stands for the satellites, 25' preterminated wires to connect the XdA to the satellites and a 25' XLR patch cord to connect the XdA to thew XdW bass module.

2) About $4300, but see my answer to question #3 below.

3) The XdW is not really a subwoofer. We call it a bass module. The XdW is designed to produce all of the low frequency output in the system below about 120Hz. It isn't an optional part of the Xd system. The XdS satellites aren't designed to be used below 80Hz.

The XdA amplifier/processor has time and frequency domain filtering specifically for the XdW bass module. If you connect a random subwoofer to the XdA low frequency outputs, you will get very poor sound.

The Xd system is designed as a 3 way speaker that happens to be in 2 enclosures. There are no crossover frequency or phase adjustments between the XdW and XdS. There is only a +/-10dB level control on the XdW to make up for room gain differences based upon where the XdW is placed.

In a surround system, you can purchase XdS speakers for the rear and center channels without the XdW bass module.

4) For CES 05 we placed the XdS center speaker in an a/v cabinet. The satellite was sitting just below the monitor. I'll try to post some pictures of it.

I don't quite understand the last sentence of question #4.

5) The Xd system does have very wide dispersion. It also has very pinpoint accurate imaging. These two characteristics are not mutually exclusive. Having pinpoint imaging is a function of clean impulse response and flat midrange tonal balance.

It might be possible for you to visit. We'd probably need at least a weeks notice to arrange it.

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post #112 of 540 Old 02-01-2005, 10:17 AM
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I should have been more clear about the question about the CENTER channel. I was worried about using a 2-way monitor speaker vs. a dedicated horizontal center channel consisting of a Mid-Tweet-Mid config (or Woof-Mid-Tweet-Woof config). The press seems to have loved the surround demo from the CES and I have not read of any negatives for using a SINGLE XdS speaker as a center. It sounds like I do not have to worry about it being such a small speaker as a center channel.

If I may ask for further clarification about the XdW. Am I correct to assume that one Xd system equals more a less a full range speaker -- with ONE XdW mated to one PAIR of XdS? If the XdW covers all signals below 120Hz, how low in the LFE range will it go to? Given that the XdW covers 120Hz/below, couldn't one potentially use all 5.0 XdS for surrounds, set the pre/pro bass management speaker settings to small + sub, plug a convential sub to the pre/pro's sub output, and be done with it? Or would a more ideal solution be a 5.1 Xd system consisting of 2.1 XdS+XdW and 3.0 XdS? Please let me know if I am missign something here...

Again, thanks for the addditonal information. By the way, when will NHT have the Xd advertise on your website?
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post #113 of 540 Old 02-01-2005, 08:27 PM
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The reason most manufacturers use a center channel speaker with a woofer-tweeter-woofer configuration is because of aesthetics. 99% of consumers insist that the center channel speaker lay flat. This requires manufacturers to use smaller woofers, to keep the profile low. The smaller woofers require you to use more of them to get enough output. The W-T-W format has the absolute worst possible audio performance from a dispersion and intelligibility standpoint. With Xd we wanted to keep things as simple as possible, so we decided to use one speaker for all channels. We normally recommend to orient the XdS speaker vertically for the center channel, however, if you must lay it on its side, the dispersion from it will still be much better than any other W-T-W or W-T format speaker due to our use of high slope crossovers.

Yes, one Xd system, with a pair of XdS and a single XdW is equal to a pair of full range speakers. Currently the XdW goes down to about 25Hz. We may offer different filter sets for customers depending on what bass cutoff they want from their XdW. If we give them a lower cutoff frequency, the system won't be able to play as loudly.

If you set up 5 XdS speakers on a surround processor and try to use the processor subwoofer output with a conventional subwoofer, you're going to have some problems. With the standard filters in the XdA, there is about 8.5ms of delay through it. You would have to match this delay on the subwoofer output on your surround processor. The surround processor slope will be much shallower than the current XdW 48dB/octave slopes are. This will make it very hard to integrate the subwoofer to the XdS output. If you can overcome these two problems, it may be workable.

We designed Xd as a system, not a mix-n-match product.

A normal 5.1 surround system with Xd does consist of 2.1 XdS+XdW and 3.0 XdS.

I'm not sure when all of the literature will be up on the website for Xd. If you click on the Xd link in the lower left hand corner of the front page, this will take you to a page of press releases. There are a couple of Xd related releases on this page.

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post #114 of 540 Old 02-01-2005, 10:01 PM
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Jack,
So if one were to use these for home theater, the C, SL and SR would all be set to a 120 Hz crossover with the L and R channels set to full range with no subwoofer in the system?

Grady
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post #115 of 540 Old 02-01-2005, 10:47 PM
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Grady,

Correct. Another solution would be to buy a couple more XdWs:)

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post #116 of 540 Old 02-02-2005, 08:31 AM
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Right, so maybe a XdW for the surrounds (set then to full range) and maybe a XdW for the center channels (set to full as well). In other words 3 complete systems?

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post #117 of 540 Old 02-02-2005, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by plain fan
Right, so maybe a XdW for the surrounds (set then to full range) and maybe a XdW for the center channels (set to full as well). In other words 3 complete systems?
Jack,

This brings up another question. If the Xd system was designed to be used as a fully integrated system [i.e. a 2.1 system = (2) XdS + (1) XdW], then what is the setback for using 3 XdS for Center and Rears WITHOUT the matching XdW? Or are you saying that in a surround system (5.1, 6.1, etc), all the speakers must be XdS with a MINIMUM of one XdW in the chain?
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post #118 of 540 Old 02-02-2005, 01:18 PM
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In an ideal surround system with Xd, you would have 1 XdW per each pair of XdS speakers. Consider a system with a single XdW connected to the XdA that drives the front left and right XdS. The left and right channels are set to full range in the surround processor. The center, LS, RS are set to small in the surround processor. In an ideal situation the high pass crossover frequency in the surround processor would be set to 120Hz. However most surround processors will have this filter fixed at 80Hz. In this case the surround processor will send a signal to these three channels that starts at 80Hz and goes up to 20kHz. When this signal gets to these three channels, the DSP in the XdA will filter out everything below 120Hz. The result is that there will be an 80-120Hz band in these three channels that isn't reproduced by the system. This is the worst case situation.

The solutions to this problem are to use a surround processor that you can adjust the high pass filter on the satellite outputs to 120Hz. If this is done, the XdW connected to the front left and right channels will then be reproducing the 80-120Hz band that is in the center, LS and RS signals.

The other option is to add XdWs to each pair of XdS speakers.

I hope this isn't too confusing.

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post #119 of 540 Old 02-02-2005, 03:56 PM
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Jack,

Does one 10inch XdWS unit provide enough output for LFE playback? ie, 90dB @ 18hz, or 106dB at 40hz.
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post #120 of 540 Old 02-02-2005, 03:58 PM
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I would guess that it does the latter much more easily than the former. :)
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