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post #181 of 597 Old 03-21-2004, 07:17 PM
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I have heard the Axiom M22 and MA Bronze B2, and would agree that the M22 is "brighter". The B2 definitely has more bass...but I also felt the mids to be a tad recessed. Both great speakers for the money.

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post #182 of 597 Old 03-22-2004, 06:36 AM
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Thanks for the replies! Monitor Audio is the only line I haven't been able to listen to yet. I demoed the Q1's this past weekend. I A/B them to the Paradigm mini monitor which are priced the same. I used Paradigm as a guide for the Axioms sound. I know it's not a completely fair comparison, but I have demoed the axiom M60's, the the paradigms are very close in their acoustic modeling (Canadian, Floyd Toole, etc.).

Anyways, I felt that the Q1's were a bit boxy and nasally sounding. This imaging was there, and the highs were there, but the sound was congested and confined IMHO. now I can contribute this to a couple different things...1) I was 6" off axis, 2) the Q1's were not on stands, but on shelves listed with other bookshelf speakers, 3) they were not in an open area,, but crowded with other speakers. I did however pull they forward about 3" from the rest of the competition.

So all of these things were going through my mind even before I turned on the Paradigms. When I did switch over, it was like night and day!. The Mini Monitors were positioned the same way as the Q1's listed above, but the sound was huge improvement. All of a sudden the layers in the music opened up, and spectrum seemed more spread out across the highs and high mids.

So here are my final thoughts. The Q1's might be a good speaker if it had more breathing room for its coaxial driver, and wide dispersion pattern. But given the circumstances, speakers in a confined area which is the situation I'm in in my own HT set up, the paradigm's were the way to go.

I'm really not into too warm or laid-back of a speaker. I do prefer the airiness of the Canadian brands. However, I do like the silk dome tweeters in the Sonus Faber line. So if anyone has listen to both the Velocities and the Sonus Faber speakers, can you give me a comparison of the two as far as the highs are concerned?

Andrew B.
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post #183 of 597 Old 03-22-2004, 07:50 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bestboy4
I'm really not into too warm or laid-back of a speaker. However, I do like the silk dome tweeters in the Sonus Faber line. So if anyone has listen to both the Velocities and the Sonus Faber speakers, can you give me a comparison of the two as far as the highs are concerned?

Have not heard the Sonus Faber, but EDIT: IMHO, the PT are anything but laid back. They have great detail without being "bright" at ALL!

Best Regards,
Patrick

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post #184 of 597 Old 03-22-2004, 07:57 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by avaholic
Have not heard the Sonus Faber, but the PT are anything but laid back. They have great detail without being "bright" at ALL!

Best Regards,
Patrick


That's awesome! I can't wait to go demo these guys! Thank for the reply.

Andrew B.
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post #185 of 597 Old 03-22-2004, 08:30 AM
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Andrew,

I just edited my last post. I forgot to put in the "IMHO" remark, as I usually do. Speaker sound characteristics can be VERY subjective, one persons "bright" is anothers "detail". And one persons "warm" is anothers "smooth". I to feel that the Velocitys are the best combination of "detail" and "smooth" that I have personally heard.

But as ALWAYS, you need to hear for yourself, your ears will tell you what you like!

Good Luck!
Patrick

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post #186 of 597 Old 03-22-2004, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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I had a chance to listen to the Phastech V-12's (1000$/pair) side by side with the Ascend CMT-340's (500$/pair+stands) and as I stated, you aren't going wrong with either one. THe amp and cd player were NAD with no sub. The V-12's play lower (going down to 39hz or something) and bigger (they are physically bigger). I own a hsu vtf-2 and love it, so I was not overly concerned about bass performance. I found I preferred the V-12's with male vocals, strings and percussion, with female vocals and keyboards I preferred the 340's. The 340's are more forward in their presentation, they have more "attack" to the sound, the V-12's certainly are not laid back, but are more of a "middle" presentation. (forgive my sonic vocabulary). The V-12's seem to have a "color" to the sound (not at all displeasing), kind of like a tint on glass, whereas the 340's are very neutral, they remind me of monitors in a recording studio. The 340's really reveal the source, I listen to a lot of bad source material (live Dead and Phish shows, yeah, I know I know) and 340's aren't so hot for that...Phasetech made that stuff sound better, but on stuff that is recorded really well, the Ascends rock the house. I don't really know the difference between "imaging" and "soundstage", but it sounded to me like the phasetech presented a deeper stage but Ascend might be wider...but I don't know what I am talking about really, just a feeling I had. Both speakers offer great sound and value, but they are most assuredly different. Aesthetically, the phastechs have that supercool chrome look (with the grills off), but my girl actually preferred the look of the 340's on the stands. In the end my I went with Ascend 340's all the way around.

I did not get a chance to listen to the phasetechs in a home theater situation, I am certain they would perform excellently. I do know in my house the 340's with the hsu is capable of sending me to the chiropractor.

My system:

Nad 753 amp
Nad 513 cd
Ascend 340's x5
Hsu VTF 2
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post #187 of 597 Old 03-22-2004, 01:31 PM
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Thanks for the review oontahey. It turns out we have the same taste in music!
Anthony
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post #188 of 597 Old 03-26-2004, 09:43 AM
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Placed my order for a full 7.1 array of PT's. I suspect I will see them in 5-7 days depending on when they run my CC thru(machine is fried atm).

Next up: Subwoofer(SVS) and power(thinking about an NAD actually..).
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post #189 of 597 Old 03-26-2004, 10:47 AM
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I have been reading this thread with interest, and recently auditioned some PT theatros. I was impressed with the overall sound compared with some others I have heard (mirage, B&W, Polk, BA, etc.). I am considering the velocity series for a new 5.1 HT, and hope to hear those soon.

One impression I had when listening to the Theatros was that the timbre of the CC was noticeably different than the mains (7.5s). I suppose this is due to the different size drivers. The driver configuration is the same in the velocity series.

I was wondering if the V8 might work as well or better as a center than the V6, since it uses the same size drivers as the V10, and V12. It is only slightly larger, and $50 cheaper.

Does anyone have any thoughts or insights on using the V8 as a CC?

BTW, thanks for pointing me to PT.

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post #190 of 597 Old 03-26-2004, 11:58 AM
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Hi Juan,

I think that the V-6 and the V-8s are close in sound, although I think the V-8s definitely sound better, as many would expect given the reputation centers have as being a compromise speaker.

IMHO, if you have the space to use a V-8 as the center, I would recommend doing that. I have space constraints and WAF to deal with, so I had to have a true center channel speaker. If not for that, I would have probably bought a V-8 for the center.

HB
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post #191 of 597 Old 03-26-2004, 02:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Juan Tingsound

One impression I had when listening to the Theatros was that the timbre of the CC was noticeably different than the mains (7.5s).

Regarding the audition of the Teatros, some dealers have less than ideal demos setup, and they may have not even been calibrated, so take it with a grain of salt!

I have the V-6 and the V-12's upfront. Different sized drivers and all. I listen to ALOT of Multi-Channel music, and IMHO, the V-6 blend seamlessly with the V-12s.

Simply put, I've owned many CC, and the V-6, sounds the best by far to me!

Check out this review of the Teatro 6.5 Center (which has the same drivers as the V-6). It compared favorably to two other center channels in a shootout in Home Theater Magazine.

Here's a little quote from the review:

"At the heart of the 6.5's design is the company's proprietary Absolute Phase crossover design. Its primary purpose is to operate the drivers in-phase, both electronically and acoustically. This not only helps maintain consistencyobviously beneficial for pans and other fast motion effectsbut also improves image accuracy and soundstage depth. The second goal of this crossover design is to improve, in the context of a horizontally aligned center channel, horizontal dispersion (if the speaker were placed vertically, vertical dispersion would be widened). The long-axis dispersion (as we'll call it for simplicity's sake) of a D'Appolito driver array is usually limited to a window that doesn't widen much beyond its original dimensions until the sound has traveled a fair distance. This long-axis dispersion is especially important in the center-channel context because the idea is to increase the horizontal window enough that those sitting off-axis will hear a sound that's not that much different from what those sitting in the middle are hearing."

"The Absolute Phase crossover design works as well in the listening room as it sounds on paper."


Good Luck and Best Regards,
Patrick

"Your Life Is Your Message"
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post #192 of 597 Old 03-26-2004, 03:25 PM
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Sorry a little off topic from the most recent posts, but I thought this quote from HT magazine also belonged in this thread:

"There are a lot of years of design expertise behind Phase Tech's stuff, considering that they are essentially a brand name of United Speaker Systems, a company that has been building drivers and other speaker parts for several manufacturers since the birth of stereo itself. They still hold the patent for the original soft-dome tweeter and other innovations that have become virtually universal elements of loudspeaker design."

BTW: Shane, Congratulations on ordering the Velocitys! Welcome to the club!
Please post your impressions after you have a chance to listen to them for awhile!

Have a Great Weekend All!
And Best Regards,
Patrick

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post #193 of 597 Old 03-29-2004, 10:10 AM
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After reading through this thread I felt an overwhelming need to give the Phase Techs a listen. I was lucky that a local dealer had them in stock and for demo. The same day I read through this thread (last Friday) I ended up buying the V-10's and the V-6 center. I have Klipsch reference series speakers and comparing the RF-35's to the V-12's at the store I was amazed how much punch and clarity it had compared to the Klipsch. I've been a longtime Klipsch fan but I was sold on the Phase Tech's. Initially I was afraid I would be disappointed that the PT's wouldnt have the clarity of Klipsch but I was pleasantly surprised.

After setting them up at home and popping in a movie the PT's exhibited much cleaner sound at high volume levels without the harshness or ear piercing sound of my Klipsch.

As a side note using my Pioneer 53TX's MCACC it didnt need to change the levels much. With my Klipsches it had to compensate quite a bit to even the response out. I was especially happy since I was having an audio problem with movies at high volume levels.

These speakers are truly amazing and I want to thank avaholic and everyone else who recommended them.
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post #194 of 597 Old 03-29-2004, 10:23 AM
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BenK
Which dealer did you go to? I'm in Ann Arbor and interested in listening to these speakers. Also what made you decide on the V10 instead of the V12 after you listened to the 12?
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post #195 of 597 Old 03-29-2004, 12:27 PM
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Hi Mark, I went to Hod's Home Theater in Waterford but do not go there. Extremely bad service from the owner. Rude and unprofessional. I got over 20% off the list price which happily surprised me. If you go there ask for Tim. Very knowledgeable on the Phase Tech line. Incidently the Stereo Shoppe in Ann Arbor comes up in the dealer locator. Have you tried them?

I got the v-10's because when I listen to music (mostly movies though) I use my sub. They're virtually the same except the V-12's have better bass extension of course. I was very tempted as they sounded excellent but I couldnt justify the added cost for what I'll be using them for. Still considering them though PM or email me about it if you want.
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post #196 of 597 Old 03-29-2004, 06:52 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BenK
These speakers are truly amazing and I want to thank avaholic and everyone else who recommended them. Anyone want some Klipsch speakers

Ben,

Glad to help!

Every time I listen to the Velocitys, I just want to share how great they sound with everyone I come in contact with! As I've said before, they are the first speaker I've owned in over 20 years of this hobby, that IMHO, do everything Extremely well! All other speakers that I've owned or listened to, had at least one shortcoming. Of course this is based on what I hear, and my particular tastes. But obviously, others are auditioning the Phase Techs. themselves and coming to similar conclusions!

Welcome to the ever growing Phase Tech. Velocity club!
Enjoy your new speakers, and thanks for sharing your experience!

I just love sharing something that literally, almost touches my soul! Great sound can be a truly moving experience!

Best Regards,
Patrick

"Your Life Is Your Message"
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post #197 of 597 Old 03-30-2004, 07:57 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Juan Tingsound

Does anyone have any thoughts or insights on using the V8 as a CC?

BTW, thanks for pointing me to PT

Jaun,

What did you decide to go with the V-6 or V-8 for the center?
Hopefully you had a chance to read the review on the 6.5 center I posted.

Best Regards,
Patrick

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post #198 of 597 Old 03-31-2004, 06:56 AM
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Where's the love for the PC Series? I see quite alot of talk about the Velocity's and Teatro's, but not much on the Premier Collection. Real high end quality and performance at a decent price. Just wondering if anyone compared the PC's to the other series, and/or other brands.
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post #199 of 597 Old 03-31-2004, 10:38 AM
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Thanks for the feedback on the center channel V6 or V8 question. I am leaning toward the V8 at the moment based on what I have read. I don't question the V6 being a good cc, just think that maybe the same attributes may be in the V8. The tech section of the website states that due to the special crossover, the various models can be mixed and positioned horizontally or vertically without altering the soundstage. If so, a V8 positioned horizontally should be a well matched center for the V10 or V12s. I can't help wondering if the V6 is sold as a center because fo the slimmer profile, and the more balanced asthetics (small hole in the middle, big holes on either side).

I auditioned a pair of V12s the other day. They sounded good, but a bit thinner than I expected. The dealer said they hadn't broken in yet, and the source was underpowered - 20watts resulting from a splitter box. I am not deterred, but I was hoping to be blown away. Can any owners vouch for substantial improvements with break-in, especially in low frequencies.

I feel like I'm close to acquisition, but getting a little trigger shy. Help me out.

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post #200 of 597 Old 03-31-2004, 07:37 PM
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Juan,

As far as your audition goes, 20 Watts is not going to do any speaker justice, no matter how sensitive the speaker is, especially when it's coming out of a splitter box. Excluding some high quality Tube amps of course, and from your description that is not what was being used.
Always be careful when auditioning speakers at a dealer, many dealers simply don't take the time to set them up properly, and many of the rooms are less than ideal. One poster here, can't remember which one without going back, thought the Velocitys didn't sound as good as another brand in the dealers room. But when he brought them home for audition, they were as amazing as every other owner says they are.

I can tell you this the V-12s I own, sounded great right out of the box. Thier freq. response extend down to 28Hz (in room) now. They are a little tighter than when I first set them up. But as I've said before they are the most Well Balanced speaker I've owned to date in my 20+ years of this hobby. Are there better speakers, of course, but for much more than $1000 (And NONE that I know of have a 10 year warranty in this price range).

If the low-end freq. reponse did not impress you, I'd bet the 20 Watts, and the dealers setup of the speakers are probably the reasons why!

Test them with a decent amp/AVR connected directly to the V-12s, with them properly setup (ideally in your own room), and then see what you think!

Best Regards,
Patrick

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post #201 of 597 Old 03-31-2004, 08:22 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Juan Tingsound
I auditioned a pair of V12s the other day. They sounded good, but a bit thinner than I expected. The dealer said they hadn't broken in yet, and the source was underpowered - 20watts resulting from a splitter box. I am not deterred, but I was hoping to be blown away. Can any owners vouch for substantial improvements with break-in, especially in low frequencies.

There is a definite break in period on the V12s. I noticed a much more 'defined' and 'present' low-to-mid range after about a month of use. I think 15-20W is the absolute minimum power required by the V-12s, so you're definitely hearing them at the low end of their operational power range.

Also, if it's truly a 20W amp, then you might get into the technical limits of the amp at any reasonable sound level. I'll bet it takes longer than a month to fully break them in at such low power levels. Have the dealer use a different amp to crank 'em up a bit.


regards and good luck in your decision...

Dom Bucciarelli
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post #202 of 597 Old 04-01-2004, 06:09 AM
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Quote:


Thanks for the feedback on the center channel V6 or V8 question. I am leaning toward the V8 at the moment based on what I have read. I don't question the V6 being a good cc, just think that maybe the same attributes may be in the V8. The tech section of the website states that due to the special crossover, the various models can be mixed and positioned horizontally or vertically without altering the soundstage. If so, a V8 positioned horizontally should be a well matched center for the V10 or V12s. I can't help wondering if the V6 is sold as a center because fo the slimmer profile, and the more balanced asthetics (small hole in the middle, big holes on either side).

I was thinking the same thing about using the V-8 as a center but the sales guy said I could do that but Phase Tech recommends using the V-6 as the center speaker. I figured they would know best.
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post #203 of 597 Old 04-01-2004, 08:27 AM
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I have really enjoyed reading this thread regarding Phase Tech. I will be trying to find a local audition in the very near future. A couple of questions for all the Phase Tech owners here......Which receiver are you using? And do the V-surrounds play multi-channel music (SACD & DVD-A) well?
Thanks for all your help.

Fishhead
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post #204 of 597 Old 04-01-2004, 08:43 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by fishhead
A couple of questions for all the Phase Tech owners here......Which receiver are you using? And do the V-surrounds play multi-channel music (SACD & DVD-A) well?

Hi,

I use the 55TXi with the 47Ai connected via i.Link for all music sources.
I listen to ALOT of Multi-Channel music: SACD, DVD-A, and DPLII on my 99% of my stereo material (CDs). The V-surrounds are a seamless blend with my V-12s and V-6. I use them strictly in the Bipole configuration (though they have a switch to set it to Dipole). They are really amazing, on some soundtracks I can swear I have 2 rear speakers behind me in a 7.1 configuration as the sound just envelopes you. But I don't, my system is only 5.1 with the V-surrounds on the sides slightly above and behind me.

They are a little light in the bass area, but no more than most dedicated surrounds (except for larger ones, and ones that have a built-in sub). With the speakers crossed over at 80Hz, it is an absolute non issue.

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,
Patrick

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post #205 of 597 Old 04-01-2004, 09:44 AM
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AVaholic

Thanks for your reply.

I am finishing my basement and setting up a multi-purpose HT/family room. The room is 12x20x8ish with a 4 ft opening along the right side of the back wall. Therefore I am pre-wiring for 6.1. I currently have the HK AVR7200 and want to build on that. I try not to get to hung up on the receiver/speaker match opinions/discussions that go rampant on these forums. I think the average person will never be able to tell the difference. But I would really hate putting something in my profile that will make all the real audio-snobs think less of me.

Thanks again.

Fishhead
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post #206 of 597 Old 04-01-2004, 11:54 AM
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BenK,

My local Phase Tech dealer told me that a V-8 would be better for a center than a V-6 on a pure sound basis, but that most people will need to get the V-6 because of space constraints. This came up when he suggested I get V-8s all around instead of V-surrounds for rear channel (all of my local dealers are very anti-Dipole).

Fishhead,

Given what the dealer said, I was really concerned about using V-surrounds for SACD and DVD-audio, but Patrick allayed my concerns. The dealer also gave me 10 days to try out the V-surrounds in home and they were fine. They are a little light on the bass, but with the subwoofer crossed over properly, that shouldn't be a big problem. I only have 1 disc where I can notice the lack of bass output (The Flaming Lips "Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots") because it is probably the most aggressive 5.1 mix I have ever heard. Whatever perceived lack of bass there may be, it is more than made up for by the sense of envelopment that the bipoles create. My room is far from ideal as far as acoustics go, so the bipoles really help out in that regard. BTW, my amplifier is a Yamaha RX-V496.

In both cases, I think that issue probably comes down to personal opinion. People will find dealers that tell you a center channel speaker is a compromise. People will find dealers that tell you bipole/dipole speakers are not a good idea and that direct-radiating is the only way to go. In the end, you need to go with what is best given your constraints.

HB
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post #207 of 597 Old 04-01-2004, 01:42 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by harync
My local Phase Tech dealer told me that a V-8 would be better for a center than a V-6 on a pure sound basis, but that most people will need to get the V-6 because of space constraints. This came up when he suggested I get V-8s all around instead of V-surrounds for rear channel (all of my local dealers are very anti-Dipole).

A V-8 will sound better than a V-6 in the sense that horizontal dispersion would be better with a standard bookshelf speaker as compared to an MTM design that has been laid on it's side. So unless you are sitting directly in front of the center channel, the V-8 is going to work much better for you.

The reason that center channels are built like they are is aesthetics and space restrictions. These center channels are place on top of televisions, or there is some other space restriction that makes a bookshelf seem out of place or odd looking. You can get around some of the off axis frequency issues with a three way with a smaller midrange driver underneath the tweeter that has good off axis response (see the PC 3.1 MK II)

Quote:


Originally posted by FisheadI have really enjoyed reading this thread regarding Phase Tech. I will be trying to find a local audition in the very near future. A couple of questions for all the Phase Tech owners here......Which receiver are you using? And do the V-surrounds play multi-channel music (SACD & DVD-A) well?
Thanks for all your help.

I can't help out on which receiver I'm using.... cause I don't use one I've got the Premier Collection 3.1 MKII package being run by a Bel Canto Design PrePro/eVo6 Gen II combination (~$11K MSRP), as well as an eVo2i integrated amp ($3K MSRP) for some two channel listening. I have the Velocity V-12 package running with Adcom electronics and Carver Professional ZR series Tripath digital amplifiers....as well as a Opera Audio tube hybrid integrated amp for two channel listening. And I've swapped them around as well and tried all the other amplification choices with each model....

Quote:


Originally posted by JamesCB
Where's the love for the PC Series? I see quite alot of talk about the Velocity's and Teatro's, but not much on the Premier Collection. Real high end quality and performance at a decent price. Just wondering if anyone compared the PC's to the other series, and/or other brands.

I have the 3.1 MK II's in stock right now with cherry veneer finish and previously had 9.1's. Up until these 3.1s came in, I had only seen the premier collection in black ash. So I was pleasantly surprised with how good the cherry veneer finish was.

The 3.1s are a lot better than you would expect. Phase Tech doesn't really have a following for strictly music and is seen as mostly a home theater speaker. But they are pretty darn good for music as well, depending on your tastes. I had a gentleman in for a demo of some Von Schweikerts who was extremely impressed with the phase techs. He couldn't get over how good they were and was going to bring back friends he felt they speakers would be perfect for.

The 3.1s compare very favorably to the Von Schweikert VR-1's, LCR-15s, and the Usher X-719s I have here in stock. It's a matter of personal preference. I can see how many people would actually prefer these phase techs to the others mentionned. They have a very full bass and lower midrange, go deep with authority, they image well, are very clean into the lower treble and aren't nearly as aggressive throughout as the Velocity line. The Velocity line is more forward sounding. The PCs are smoother, with a bit less bite.... The PC cabinets are far and away better than the Velocity line. More heavy duty, more bracing, much less resonant by comparison.... The Usher cabinets are the standard when it comes to overbuilding them for resonance control, but the Phase tech's do a pretty darn good job...

If I had to rank them in order of my favorite, I would pick Von Schweikert, then Usher, then Phase Tech. But I would be happy to own all three.... wait a minute... I DO own all three!!

If anyone is sitting on the fence about Phase Tech, you need to seek out your local dealer and give them a listen.... Even with $11K of electronics in front of them, they still hold their own very well.....

Shane
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post #208 of 597 Old 04-01-2004, 02:05 PM
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What are your feelings on the PC1.1II? You were very impressed by the PC3.1II?

Thanks
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post #209 of 597 Old 04-01-2004, 02:29 PM
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Thanks to this thread for turning me on to the Phase Tech line. Just ordered the V-12, V-6 and V-surrounds. Am also worried a little about the V-6, but we'll see how it does.

Can't wait to get them next week. I'll post back when I've had a chance to set-up. Great value.
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post #210 of 597 Old 04-01-2004, 03:16 PM
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Regarding the question of the V8 vs V6 as used for the center, has anyone contacted Phase Tech directly to ask about this. Just curious, as I am close to making a purchase of V8's for fronts and as far as space is concerned, I could probably use it as the center as well, if it is recommended. My two fronts and center will all have to lie horizontally.
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