No wall for dipole -- Ceiling speakers? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 05-10-2004, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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About a year ago I purchased a 5.1 Paradigm Reference setup including a pair of dipole surrounds that I could only place on stands because of my room’s layout. I kept the surrounds out of the way and moved them to the sides of the sofa during movies (royal pain). I will be relocating soon but have yet to find a single living room able to accommodate my surrounds in the houses I have been shown. There is no wall space on both sides of the sofa’s location -- a door or a window or a fireplace is always in the wrong place. I’m tossing around the idea of selling my dipoles for in-ceiling speakers or monopoles that I mount from the ceiling. If I wanted 4 surrounds for a 7.1 system, what is the best placement for the ceiling speakers? What performance should I expect with such as setup? I’m mainly concerned with movies, not surround audio.

Thanks,
Chris
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post #2 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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None of you guys have in-ceiling surrounds or surrounds mounted on the ceiling with omnimounts?
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post #3 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 07:25 AM
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Chris,

I have seen installations where a flange is mounted on the ceiling and a downpipe is used to support the speaker itself and the wiring is run within the pipe. Makes for a very clean and professional installation and the pipe can be painted.

Of course with dipoles you would mount them the usual 2 to 3 feet above ear height and directly to the sides of your sweet spot.

The only problem is if you didn't have access above the ceiling for the wiring... although if you use ceiling mount speakers that is still an issue. You can always fish wires to any location but you will have to do some mining and spackling.

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post #4 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 08:22 AM
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Hi
This install picture was taken before the pipe flange was finished
to match ceiling client insisted on incorporating his high end Bi Poles in the installation and we found a way to do it weight of the Bi Pole is 40 lbs
so we had to install a nailer to the ceiling Joyce to catch all four bolt holes
in the pipe flange
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post #5 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 08:36 AM
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post #6 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 08:43 AM
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I have the same issue with limited space and no good place to wall mount large rear surrounds. The above install looks great to me but the WAF would be very low to non existent. The question remains.... can anyone share their experience with in ceiling paradigm surrounds? I have already agreed to compromise concerning surrounds (hiding them in the ceiling). I gained acceptance in (upgrade from b***) purchase of reference paradigm fronts and center and I am hoping for a win/win situation.
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post #7 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 10:43 AM
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Hi
Ok lets try something different a compromise between performance and
design Let me know what you think
The Picture with the Bi-Pole install was taken before the flange was hidden and the heavy pleated curtains installed so it looks naked
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post #8 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 10:49 AM
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I had ceiling speakers as my rears in a 7.1 configuration and they worked fine. If that's all you have to work with, believe me.. it works fine. Just keep the speaker 2ft behind you, no more.
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post #9 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Ray, those are great ideas. I'd love to keep my dipoles, but I don't think I'm up for the (pole) lengths you went to in order to get them to the correct height.

Niles makes some in-ceiling speakers than allow you to aim the woofer and tweater. I wonder if those work. Otherwise the in-ceiling speakers just shoot straight down (unless on a vaulted ceiling).
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post #10 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 01:06 PM
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anyone have any ideas on attatching something on the end of the pipe (were the speakers connects to the pipe) so you can make the speaker swivel?

Save Your Frequent Flyer Miles !! Barber's jobs are also being exported to China, you will have to fly to China now for a hair cut.
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post #11 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Niles makes some in-ceiling speakers than allow you to aim the woofer and tweater. I wonder if those work. Otherwise the in-ceiling speakers just shoot straight down (unless on a vaulted ceiling).
Or you might have a look at these ?




Or these
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post #12 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by mendes9
anyone have any ideas on attatching something on the end of the pipe (were the speakers connects to the pipe) so you can make the speaker swivel?
Don't OmniMounts allow (slight) adjustments to the speaker position?
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post #13 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ray
Or you might have a look at these ?
Yeah Ray, the Niles ones look kinda like that. Who makes those in the pic?
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post #14 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 02:06 PM
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The first ones are the Speakercraft AIM series
Here is the second picture from Sonance
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post #15 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 02:30 PM
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Chris,
As far as in-ceiling and on-ceiling I went with on-ceiling as I found the perfect solution for both the sides and rears in JMLab Sibs. They mount on both the ceiling and the walls and are great for movies and especially for surround music. They are about 350 a pair and have added a new dimension to my surround experience. I used to have dipoles but I had to put them high on the wall and lost much of the sound to the kithchen. Having direct radiating speakers on both the sides and the rears has made a huge difference in my room . The Mirage Omnistats are other on-ceilings you may consider. Jus my 2 cents.

Mike
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post #16 of 24 Old 05-13-2004, 08:38 PM
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Atlantic Technology makes an in ceiling speaker that works great for this application. I had much the same problem, but after reading this review I purchased three ICTS 8's and now enjoy 7.1 sound without the clutter. The 2 rear sides are set as dipole speakers and the single rear center speaker functions as 2 rear back speakers, each speaker can funtion as a stereo pair, a monopole or a dipole. Until I can afford my own theater room I love this setup.

You can read more about them here.
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post #17 of 24 Old 05-14-2004, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I just got a response back from Paradigm tech support. He thinks the ADP dipoles, even mounted from the ceiling, are a better option than in-ceiling or on-ceiling monopoles. I know dipoles are supposed to be high on the wall, but up to the ceiling? What do you guys think about his recommendation?
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post #18 of 24 Old 05-14-2004, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I like the idea of the Atlantic Tech in-ceiling "dipoles". But I don't think I'm up for $400 each.

Ray, how much are the SpeakerCraft AIM's each?
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post #19 of 24 Old 05-14-2004, 01:07 PM
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These quotes were taken from this article.. "The ICTS 8.3 has an Estimated Street Price of $400 each. The ICTS 6.3 has an Estimated Street Price of $275 each."

" The ICTS-6.3 uses a 6.5-inch woofer and has a frequency response of 55 Hz – 20 kHz (+/-3dB). Thanks to its larger 8-inch woofer, the ICTS-8.3's frequency range extends all the way down to 45 Hz. "

The 6.5" version may be a viable option for you if you intend to crossover to a sub.

Good luck
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post #20 of 24 Old 05-17-2004, 10:11 AM
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I am strugling with this same issue as we speak, in fact just wired my ceiling this weekend. I have been thinking about the Mirage Omnisats, but Ray's post has me intriqued. Ray what are the "flip down" speakers you posted above? If you know how might they compare to the omnisats?

Thanx

Thanx, Patrick
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post #21 of 24 Old 05-18-2004, 10:58 PM
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Hi
The speakers that come down out of the ceiling are KEF 200.2
http://www.kef.com/products/ciseries/ci200qt.html

If you are looking for high bang for the buck D- Pole Bi-pole in walls
you should look at the Phoenix Gold SSI-623
See Attachment #1
Bi-polar/Di-polar configurable surround speakers for direct "Null/Diffuse" user installations
6.5" mica woofer with dual 25mm aluminum tweeters and dual 3" mica midrange
Adjustable high and mid-range frequencies
50Hz-20kHz, 8 Ohms
Required cut-out: 7 1/8" x 9 3/8"
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post #22 of 24 Old 05-18-2004, 11:03 PM
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Or if you want a step up to high performance in walls check these
out These will kill many high end floor standers I have installed these
in a on wall configuration as well with very good results they are perfect for a shadow boxed front wall front projection system or Plasma install
See attachment
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post #23 of 24 Old 05-18-2004, 11:14 PM
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This install is about 25% done It has the SI760's mounted on the wall
the center above the screen will be removed and a single SI760
will be mounted horizontally below the screen Furring strips will then be attached to the wall and then it will be covered with GOM material and speaker grill material
to hide the speakers and box in the screen a motorized curtain will then be installed The SI 760's are very very capable speakers they sound like large towers and are capable of very high SPL's
Sorry for the poor photo

Cheers
LL
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post #24 of 24 Old 05-20-2004, 10:11 AM
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Ray

The KEF speakers are a nice solution, found a local dealer who had them, but they are definitely out of my price range. He actually had one on clearance for ~$300, but he only had the one. He also indicted that a lot of owners have had issues with the motors. So since I really need to ceiling mount I guess I'm back to the Omnisats.

Thanx

Thanx, Patrick
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