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post #151 of 176 Old 03-08-2007, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Gideon View Post

May want to learn some lessons from Japan high-end Audio Visual Manufactures. Some of them have already pull back from low cost countries manufacturing bases such as China, Malaysia etc to their own base country, Japan. Reasons being cited were compromised to quality and intellectual property rights.

Hope that M&K would consider thrice before moving their manufacturing bases to low cost countries.

Looks like Gideon gets the Crystal Ball award. His post was from April 05.
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post #152 of 176 Old 03-08-2007, 08:50 PM
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Looks like Gideon gets the Crystal Ball award. His post was from April 05.


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Maybe someday in the future we will be able to quantify perceived Sound Quality .
(But not today....)

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post #153 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Capfacsurf View Post

I have read some smack here on AVS about M&K being in trouble. Well, Boulderdash!

I can't say a heck of a lot, as I have literally been sworn to secrecy. But what I can say is that M&K is successfully adapting to the changing realities of the new manufactuing paradigm. If you have orders in for M&K products, be patient. If you are considering placing some orders, don't worry.

ironic
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post #154 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by theRchitect View Post

In light of M&K's recent demise, I found this thread rather interesting and somewhat humorous.

Bumping up for those that haven't been around long (like myself)...


What is somewhat humorous about Americans losing their jobs, and an American company going out of business, presumably in part due to the outsourcing of manufacturing to China and that country's lack of enforcement with regards to intellectual property?
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post #155 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 05:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Capfacsurf View Post

Global sourcing has become important for a number of reasons. One of the big reasons is Wal Mart. In the push for lower and lower prices, a concept to which the American consumer has become addicted, factories in low cost manufacturing countries are building huge economies of scale. There are electrtonics factories in foreign countries that, in one or two shifts, could produce an entire years worth of parts for every high end speaker manufacturer in the world. So it becomes harder and harder for niche, high end electronic parts manufacturers to compete. When a business owner reaches a point where the costs of manufacturing exceed the market price he can get for his products, he either converts to a not profit charity, or shuts down. This forces his customers to seek new vendors, a painstaking and time consuming process for any company who is technically forward thinking and quality focused.

And as for the country of origin, parts are still parts, irrespective of the color of the fingers which put them together. A rich old guy told me he would rather have a Japanese car from an assembly line, than a hand built Rolls Royce made on the Monday following an important soccer game.

Remember what happened to the quality audio names of old that began manufacturing overseas? The went to crap and high end audio was born in the U.S.
There is always going to be an initial period of time where we will have to deal with subpar quality everytime a company moves manufacturing overseas, read: Asia.
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post #156 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 05:34 AM
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Like we don't have high end crap?

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post #157 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuthed View Post

Remember what happened to the quality audio names of old that began manufacturing overseas? The went to crap and high end audio was born in the U.S.
There is always going to be an initial period of time where we will have to deal with subpar quality everytime a company moves manufacturing overseas, read: Asia.

Any thoughts as to whether or not this same adage applies to a company like AV123 that started in the US but has since moved manufacturing out of the country?

Unfortunately, it seems that it's hard for just about any high-end company to make it for very long unless they have the right management in place. One of the first that comes to mind is Soundcraftsmen, but they've been on my mind lately anyway. Another is BMW, who is seeing decent car sales, and increasing sales since they bought the Mini name, but whose bike sales have lost a step or two to the competition.

Consumers are fickle, and there's only so much market for high-end anything. Mass-produced krep sells a lot more and has a much larger market. Once a high-end company's quality or service starts to slip, it usually just the start of a long slide to Chapter 7, 11, etc...
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post #158 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by CR_Client View Post

Any thoughts as to whether or not this same adage applies to a company like AV123 that started in the US but has since moved manufacturing out of the country?

I don't think av123 has ever manufactured in the US. I believe av123 started out as an importer of Swans until they built the Sound Arts China factory and then started building their own speakers as well as cabinets for many, many other speaker companies.

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post #159 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 08:51 AM
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The S-150 is not even their best speaker. The S-5000 sounds much more neutral and with a much bigger soundstage. Of course my opinion. I have owned almost all the different M&K's and finally went from the s-250 to the s-5000. I thought there was a big difference. I do agree that they need to come out with better speakers than they have. Their top speakers are great but everything else is ok. They have never even replaced the S-5000. Having said this for home theater I have not heard a better speaker for my theater than the 5000 and I have tried some nice speakers.
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post #160 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

The S-150 is not even their best speaker. The S-5000 sounds much more neutral and with a much bigger soundstage. Of course my opinion. I have owned almost all the different M&K's and finally went from the s-250 to the s-5000. I thought there was a big difference. I do agree that they need to come out with better speakers than they have. Their top speakers are great but everything else is ok. They have never even replaced the S-5000. Having said this for home theater I have not heard a better speaker for my theater than the 5000 and I have tried some nice speakers.

Maybe you missed it, but they aren't coming out with anything. They're out of business.

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post #161 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 10:45 AM
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Are you sure, what about the pro audio side of things? Anyway I am glad I own the best speaker they ever made for theater.
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post #162 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 11:02 AM
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They filed for Chapter 7. Check out their web site.

www.mksound.com

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post #163 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 11:26 AM
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I see, well like I said these speakers are awesome and when they die I will find a replacement. So much for the 7 year warranty I had left on my USA M&K speakers. I do love the dynamics and accuracy of these, what would be a good replacement?
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post #164 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty Williams View Post

What is somewhat humorous about Americans losing their jobs, and an American company going out of business, presumably in part due to the outsourcing of manufacturing to China and that country's lack of enforcement with regards to intellectual property?

The "humor" was in the irony of this thread saying that M&K wasn't in trouble and was "here to stay". Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part...

I can honestly say I was very troubled by the news when I read it yesterday, and am legitimitely SAD that this has happened. I loved what M&K stood for, as well as their products.

Getting good, solid products that aren't new or flashy (like speakers, amplifiers) or filled with snake-oil is getting more and more difficult these days.
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post #165 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I see, well like I said these speakers are awesome and when they die I will find a replacement. So much for the 7 year warranty I had left on my USA M&K speakers. I do love the dynamics and accuracy of these, what would be a good replacement?

A Blue Sky and Ascend Acoustics are both companies with former M&K engineers designing the products.

Go confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you have imagined. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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post #166 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 01:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CR_Client View Post

Any thoughts as to whether or not this same adage applies to a company like AV123 that started in the US but has since moved manufacturing out of the country?

Unfortunately, it seems that it's hard for just about any high-end company to make it for very long unless they have the right management in place. One of the first that comes to mind is Soundcraftsmen, but they've been on my mind lately anyway. Another is BMW, who is seeing decent car sales, and increasing sales since they bought the Mini name, but whose bike sales have lost a step or two to the competition.

Consumers are fickle, and there's only so much market for high-end anything. Mass-produced krep sells a lot more and has a much larger market. Once a high-end company's quality or service starts to slip, it usually just the start of a long slide to Chapter 7, 11, etc...

I meant it in the sense that usually a company moves its manufacturing overseas after some degree of financial difficulty is under way, ala M&K.

So to try and salvage some of the potential sales they reduce quality to try to appeal to a wider market and increase profits.

Think about it, if they were to start selling M&Ks in Best Buy at a lower than accustomed to price some people will grab them up. They'll think they are getting this high end product for a great price and can't believe their good fortune.

However what they will in all probability be getting is a mass produced imitation of what used to be a phenomenal product.
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post #167 of 176 Old 03-09-2007, 01:15 PM
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I loved what M&K stood for

You loved both Miller and Kriesel?

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
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post #168 of 176 Old 03-10-2007, 09:04 PM
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This is sad....I love my M&K's too bad more people can't enjoy them too.

I am only 3 months into my 10 year warranty which really sucks
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post #169 of 176 Old 03-13-2007, 09:08 PM
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Honestly this is pretty sad news..

Stephen
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post #170 of 176 Old 03-14-2007, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nuthed View Post

Think about it, if they were to start selling M&Ks in Best Buy at a lower than accustomed to price some people will grab them up. They'll think they are getting this high end product for a great price and can't believe their good fortune.

However what they will in all probability be getting is a mass produced imitation of what used to be a phenomenal product.

M&K WAS sold in Best Buy in the MHT wannabe high-end sections. They discontinued the line because they didnt sell. They didnt sell because Best Buy customers buy Klipsch and Bose.
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post #171 of 176 Old 03-14-2007, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

M&K WAS sold in Best Buy in the MHT wannabe high-end sections. They discontinued the line because they didnt sell. They didnt sell because Best Buy customers buy Klipsch and Bose.

Since no-one seemed to be able to get product over the past two plus years, perhaps they discontinued the line because they had none to sell.

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post #172 of 176 Old 03-14-2007, 05:02 AM
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However what they will in all probability be getting is a mass produced imitation of what used to be a phenomenal product.

One of these days, the American worker is finally going to wake up. The "factory" production worker that is. They want to b!@#$ and moan about losing their jobs to over seas production, yet they didn't or don't want to help management get lean and mean to be competative in the marketplace. Forcing the companies to move or close up entirely in the end.

Make no mistake, Japan set the standard for production efficiency post WWII. They learned to make the production worker part of the management "team" thus fostering checks and balances that the employees took responsibility for and were PROUD of. All of a sudden, quality control for example had a direct impact on their income and they took it PERSONALLY. They became immersed in how to produce things more efficiently as well as at a higher quality.

People who think of the Asian manufacturing plants of today as the dirty sweat shops of yesterday, mass producing junk not fit for anything.... are sorely mistaken. Many, MANY of them are state of the art, with the newest technology and equipment where workers are provided housing, meals, laundry services, day care, exorcise areas etc.... that would EASILY put ISO 9000 factories here to shame.

The US better WAKE UP PDQ.... or we won't manufacture anything.

John W.
Indy
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post #173 of 176 Old 03-14-2007, 05:40 AM
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all speakers shall now sound the same because they're now all built in the same china by the same dude wearing the same hat.
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post #174 of 176 Old 03-14-2007, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by quadriverfalls View Post

Many, MANY of them are state of the art, with the newest technology and equipment where workers are provided housing, meals, laundry services, day care, exorcise areas etc.... that would EASILY put ISO 9000 factories here to shame.

The US better WAKE UP PDQ.... or we won't manufacture anything.

wow, are they possessed often? j/k

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post #175 of 176 Old 03-14-2007, 07:23 AM
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John W. you have nailed in on the head...this wake up needed to happen about 20 years ago though.
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post #176 of 176 Old 03-14-2007, 07:34 AM
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Unskilled Union workers in this country have been demanding wages and benifits that befit educated middle-class people without realizing that they didn't deserve it because their conterparts oversees would be more than happy doing that work for subsistance level wages.

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Maybe someday in the future we will be able to quantify perceived Sound Quality .
(But not today....)

Earl Geddes Ph.D.
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