Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 1071 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #32101 of 32122 Unread 05-26-2015, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmittyJS View Post
Most people will tell you ID subs are the best bang for the buck and that 10-inch will not be enough, and they're right, depending upon where you're going to place it and how much of a bass-head you become. You say your listening "area" (as opposed to "room") is that size, so I'm assuming it's open to an area that's much larger. In order to have equalized bass throughout that whole listening area you'll need subs that can fill (pressurize) that whole open area that includes the listening area. You've got to move enough air through a combination of surface area and excursion. That's big woofers and/or long excursion. But if you have limited listening positions you can probably get away with nearfield placement and a smaller sub. I won't get into the reasons for this because it's a long complex subject that took me a long time to research, but if you're interested you can find out plenty in the Subwoofer forum and by reading Harman Kardon's white paper on the subject. data-bass.com will give you an idea of some subs' output at various Hz. I would say Hsu, Rhythmic and Outlaw probably show the best bang for the buck, but those are all 15-inch. Most HT addicts here have far better bass than movie theaters, which generally don't go below low 30's Hz. And most music doesn't go below 40 Hz, except for down-tuned bass (31Hz), lowest piano keys (27.xHz), some synths and pipe organ (16Hz). So you'll have to decide whether movie theater-level bass is enough or whether you want to explore the depths at gut-rumbling levels of what's actually on that blu-ray.

I have seven subs in various rooms. Two are Paradigm Seismic 110, but I bought them used, so together they cost less than one new one. I liked their output for their size and the PBK idea. I'm not an infrasonic bass-head, and all my subs are small form-factor because I don't want big, ugly boxes in my living areas. Your constraints may be different, but in general, low bass extension means a bigger box. That ain't happening with a 10-inch.

BTW, there's a new 490 on ebay right now. I was thinking about buying it, but changed my mind.
I picked up a Seismic 110 off Craigslist for 1000. I could have found a better bang for your buck with another brand, but I really like this sub. It's small, but it can really hit hard.
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post #32102 of 32122 Unread 05-26-2015, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moparjoe View Post
they sound great to me dean122601, the backs are 85f's as well. Watched Captain America - Winter soldier on Friday night, Godzilla (2014) Saturday night, and probably American Sniper this weekend, all on blu-ray. I bought the "star wars collection" on blu-ray as the pod-race
scene is the absolute best for sound demoing, but my wife won't let me open them till my birthday ...
Completely fills my 2500 sq ft open concept house with a VERY wide sound stage. I'm impressed ....makes my old snell LCR's sound
like an alarm clock radio ......
this is a picture at night time watching a bit of Oblivion ...
image is over 12ft diagonally
Glad to hear you enjoy your speakers. Your long wait paid off.

(LCD - Sony KDL -52 XBR4) (Receiver - Sony STR-DA4ES)(Blu Ray - Oppo BDP-83) (PS3)( Dish Hopper DVR With Sling) Speakers (L & R - Paradigm Studio 20) (Center -Paradigm CC-470) (Surrounds & Back Surrounds - Paradigm SA-15R in walls) (Subwoofer 1 - Sunfire HRS-12) (Subwoofer 2 - Paradigm PW-2100)
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post #32103 of 32122 Unread 05-26-2015, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Moparjoe View Post
System is installed , still issues with the monoprice HDMI >cat6 to the projector ...
Thank you Paradigm !
glad to hear you're happy with the sound. ..Are you planning on adding a space rug and maybe some absorptive wall hangings or window treatments? As much as you like the sound now, I'll bet you'll be even happier if you "deaden" the room a bit. ..It looks to be tad bit reflective. ..In any case, very glad your happy

McIntosh MA6600 Integrated amp (for 2-ch) | Onkyo TX-NR1030 AVR (TV/ Movies) | Paradigm Sig S8 v2's (front) | Paradigm Prestige 55C (Center) | Boston Acoustics Bravo 20 speakers (rear) | 2010 Technics SL-1200mk2 Turntable w/ AudioTechnica 440mla cartridge | Mac Mini Music Server | Emotiva XDA-2 DAC | Logitech Touch SB | Samsung PN58B860 Plasma TV
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post #32104 of 32122 Unread 05-26-2015, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by bugsnest View Post
What's a good sub to go with this setup? I have never owned a sub so am really not sure if I should should look for a 10inch sub from a different brand or stick to Paradigms.
I ran a Paradigm Ultracube 10 in a Millenia setup for several years. It was fine in an apartment setting but when I bought a house, I felt it was underwhelming in a 14 x 20 room. I thought long and hard between upgrading to a Sub12 or SVS Ultra13. I went with the Ultra13, then bought a second, and couldn't be happier with them. The PBK Kit is nice but wasn't really a factor for me as my receiver provided adequate bass management for my tastes.
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post #32105 of 32122 Unread 05-26-2015, 07:31 PM
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Nice View, but .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdiddy23 View Post
Have you made any progress with this? I am in the exact same situation actually (same piano black). I was on the fence between getting a 3rd studio 60 as centre or CC 490 initially. The centre channel will be below a wall mounted TV which is pretty high up (see pic).
Looking at the photo you posted, it is hard to find a good listening position anywhere on the couch with your current speaker placement.

First, I would make the center of the couch your primary listening position and arrange the L-R speakers to match. Second, I would recommend a Millenia 30 as a center speaker, as it is the largest wall-mountable speaker available now. Last, I would get an Articulating wall-mount for the TV, and hang the Millenia 30 under the TV.

Now, when you watch TV you can pull it out and point it towards the couch, and your LCR speakers will be in the right orientation for best sound.
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Last edited by Spock1234; 05-26-2015 at 07:51 PM.
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post #32106 of 32122 Unread 05-27-2015, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Spock1234 View Post
Looking at the photo you posted, it is hard to find a good listening position anywhere on the couch with your current speaker placement.

First, I would make the center of the couch your primary listening position and arrange the L-R speakers to match. Second, I would recommend a Millenia 30 as a center speaker, as it is the largest wall-mountable speaker available now. Last, I would get an Articulating wall-mount for the TV, and hang the Millenia 30 under the TV.

Now, when you watch TV you can pull it out and point it towards the couch, and your LCR speakers will be in the right orientation for best sound.
Thanks for the reply! The TV wall mount does articulate out a fair bit, only issue is that its on flimsy steel studs, so when its articulated out with that extra torque I'm not sure if I'd want to hang another 30lbs from it.

Sounds like you think Millenia/Studio are relatively inter-mixable in terms of tone acoustics etc? I suppose the same would go for Prestige then? (that is what Paradigm support says at least)
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post #32107 of 32122 Unread 05-27-2015, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tdiddy23 View Post
Thanks for the reply! The TV wall mount does articulate out a fair bit, only issue is that its on flimsy steel studs, so when its articulated out with that extra torque I'm not sure if I'd want to hang another 30lbs from it.

Sounds like you think Millenia/Studio are relatively inter-mixable in terms of tone acoustics etc? I suppose the same would go for Prestige then? (that is what Paradigm support says at least)
I guess all your options involve compromises of some sort.

The Millenia 30 will match the Studios well enough. The Millenia has the Satin-Anodized Tweeter, while the Studios have the Gold-Anodized Tweeter. They sound very similar, not identical. I have not heard the Prestige series.

If you are concerned about the strength of the wall studs,you could try a free-standing mount like the Arena 9972. It is strong enough to support a TV and a Millenia 30 speaker. On the other hand, none of the Prestige center channels are wall mountable, and would force a different kind of compromise in sound and/or TV viewing position.

Given the kind of money you are spending on your speakers, I would suggest investing in a professional-grade wall mount to get the best out of your investment. It seems like a waste to buy to such good speakers and compromise the sound by placing them in less-than-ideal positions.

Last edited by Spock1234; 05-28-2015 at 03:54 PM.
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post #32108 of 32122 Unread Yesterday, 06:59 PM
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In case anyone is interested. I'm currently selling my full 5.0 Paradigm Studio Setup.

5.0 Paradigm Studio V.5 Setup
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post #32109 of 32122 Unread Yesterday, 06:59 PM
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In case anyone is interested. I'm currently selling my full 5.0 Paradigm Studio Setup.

5.0 Paradigm Studio V.5 Setup
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post #32110 of 32122 Unread Yesterday, 11:05 PM
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Best amp to use with Paradigm Signature S8s and C5?

When I first got my HT setup about 6-7 years ago, I had a set of speakers from the Paradigm Monitor line and powered it with a Denon 4308ci AVR. I upgraded to a Paradigm Signature S8s and C5 (all v. 2) last year. Huge improvement, but I do wonder if they're being held back by the Denon.

It so happens that my Denon is a bit long in the tooth (some HDMI inputs no longer work, etc.) and I'd been thinking of going with separates, so I'm kicking off my research. I've heard that some amps match some speakers better than others. Does anyone have any recommendations about a good amp that will do my Signatures justice?

Edit: Forgot to mention that this is for a 5-channel setup. It'd be nice to have 7 or even 9 channels available in case I expand, but I will probably stick with 5.

Last edited by dla26; Yesterday at 11:33 PM. Reason: Edit: Forgot to mention that this is for a 5-channel setup.
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post #32111 of 32122 Unread Yesterday, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
When I first got my HT setup about 6-7 years ago, I had a set of speakers from the Paradigm Monitor line and powered it with a Denon 4308ci AVR. I upgraded to a Paradigm Signature S8s and C5 (all v. 2) last year. Huge improvement, but I do wonder if they're being held back by the Denon.

It so happens that my Denon is a bit long in the tooth (some HDMI inputs no longer work, etc.) and I'd been thinking of going with separates, so I'm kicking off my research. I've heard that some amps match some speakers better than others. Does anyone have any recommendations about a good amp that will do my Signatures justice?
Are you just powering the LCR? or do you have a 5.1 / 7.1 channel setup?
If you're just powering the three, I'd be looking at the XPA-3 from Emotiva: https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-3 (200wpc x 3)

For more, I'd take a look at outlaw amps... How loud do you listen? How close do you sit? Honestly those speakers are pretty efficient (89db Anechoic / 92db w/ room gain), so you don't need GOBS of power.
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post #32112 of 32122 Unread Today, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post
Are you just powering the LCR? or do you have a 5.1 / 7.1 channel setup?
If you're just powering the three, I'd be looking at the XPA-3 from Emotiva: https://emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-3 (200wpc x 3)

For more, I'd take a look at outlaw amps... How loud do you listen? How close do you sit? Honestly those speakers are pretty efficient (89db Anechoic / 92db w/ room gain), so you don't need GOBS of power.
Sorry, I forgot to mention I'm powering a 5.2 setup. (The 2 subs have their own built-in amps.) I sit about 10 feet from my speakers, and the left and right channels are approx. 9.5 feet apart from each other. (Not sure if that's relevant.) I'm interested in getting a 7.2 setup someday, but right now it's lower priority.

Movies and videogames are the primary application. Music is 3rd. I'm not sure how loud I run them. Usually on the Denon, it says I'm between -15 to -20 db. I don't believe I run them overly loud. Again, not sure if it's relevant, but my HT is about 3400 cubic feet.

Does that still sound like Outlaw amps would be the best starting point?

Thanks!
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post #32113 of 32122 Unread Today, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
Sorry, I forgot to mention I'm powering a 5.2 setup. (The 2 subs have their own built-in amps.) I sit about 10 feet from my speakers, and the left and right channels are approx. 9.5 feet apart from each other. (Not sure if that's relevant.) I'm interested in getting a 7.2 setup someday, but right now it's lower priority.

Movies and videogames are the primary application. Music is 3rd. I'm not sure how loud I run them. Usually on the Denon, it says I'm between -15 to -20 db. I don't believe I run them overly loud. Again, not sure if it's relevant, but my HT is about 3400 cubic feet.

Does that still sound like Outlaw amps would be the best starting point?

Thanks!
You're pretty close to my dimensions, and you'd be MORE than fine with this: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/5000.html

At 120wpc, taking into consideration room gain, that gives you about 106db from your listening position. That's WAY WAY louder then you listen to, and will even cover dynamic peaks over and above reference during movie playback. So if you were listening at 0, you'd still have plenty of headroom. Not only that, but the following calculation doesn't even take into consideration you're crossing over to subwoofers, so in reality your speakers would play even louder off that amount of power.

To put it in perspective, 100db is the equivalent to a chain saw, pneumatic drill, printing plant, jackhammer, speeding express train, some car horns at five meters, farm tractor, riveting machine, some noisy subways.

You should be ok with the Outlaw At your listening levels it mightn't even make much of a difference, but it's nice to have a little headroom I suppose, and for $599, what the heck?

If you're not planning on drilling holes into your ceiling any time soon for Atmos, I'd try to find a used X4000 (they're popping up often here at the moment) for 500 - 600 dollars, and combine the two. You'd get XT32 - Audyssey's highest version of EQ, with SUBeq (will integrate both your subwoofers) - and as it's a 7 channel amp (that allows 9 channel with outside amplification) you'd be golden for when you wanted to go 7 channel. Just throw on two or 4 more speakers for your surrounds, and you wouldn't have to add a thing.





Last edited by Sean Spamilton; Today at 01:10 AM.
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post #32114 of 32122 Unread Today, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
When I first got my HT setup about 6-7 years ago, I had a set of speakers from the Paradigm Monitor line and powered it with a Denon 4308ci AVR. I upgraded to a Paradigm Signature S8s and C5 (all v. 2) last year. Huge improvement, but I do wonder if they're being held back by the Denon.

It so happens that my Denon is a bit long in the tooth (some HDMI inputs no longer work, etc.) and I'd been thinking of going with separates, so I'm kicking off my research. I've heard that some amps match some speakers better than others. Does anyone have any recommendations about a good amp that will do my Signatures justice?

Edit: Forgot to mention that this is for a 5-channel setup. It'd be nice to have 7 or even 9 channels available in case I expand, but I will probably stick with 5.
You didn't say anything about budget (or I just missed it). But considering you have S8s I'm guessing that you don't mind spending a few dollars on equipment. The S8s are very efficient and they're rated at 8 ohm impedance. With that said I'm driving my Studio 100s with a Sunfire TGA-7401 amp (400 watts/channel into 8 ohms). It only weighs 46 pounds and the beast stays cool without fans or even grill openings on top. It might be overkill but my Studio 100s sound excellent with that amp. However, the S8s are more efficient (about 3 dB) than my Studio 100s and Emotiva and Outlaw make some excellent products.
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post #32115 of 32122 Unread Today, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjahifi View Post
In case anyone is interested. I'm currently selling my full 5.0 Paradigm Studio Setup.

5.0 Paradigm Studio V.5 Setup
That's seems to be a pretty good price. If these were rosenut, I would easily purchase them from you mainly to get the surrounds and center. Good luck with the sale!


Denon X4000 | Paradigm Studio 60s | Paradigm Studio CC-590 | Dual SVS PB-2000s | Panasonic GT50
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Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
I've heard that some amps match some speakers better than others.
Watts to SPL calculator
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post #32117 of 32122 Unread Today, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
When I first got my HT setup about 6-7 years ago, I had a set of speakers from the Paradigm Monitor line and powered it with a Denon 4308ci AVR. I upgraded to a Paradigm Signature S8s and C5 (all v. 2) last year. Huge improvement, but I do wonder if they're being held back by the Denon.

It so happens that my Denon is a bit long in the tooth (some HDMI inputs no longer work, etc.) and I'd been thinking of going with separates, so I'm kicking off my research. I've heard that some amps match some speakers better than others. Does anyone have any recommendations about a good amp that will do my Signatures justice?

Edit: Forgot to mention that this is for a 5-channel setup. It'd be nice to have 7 or even 9 channels available in case I expand, but I will probably stick with 5.
I have been thinking about this same question. I had a 100s/690/590s setup powered by an Emotiva XPA-5 (200w x 5 on the center, 4 surrounds) and XPA-2 (300 watt x 2 on the 100s). I recently came across a good deal on a used set of S8 v.3s. I bought a C5 as well after the dealer reluctantly agreed to give me 20% off. The dealer asked what I was using to power the Sigs. I told him the same thing I was using for the Studios. He looked at me in derision and disgust almost. He said why would I do that, "its like putting cheap tires on a Ferrari." He advised I would need to upgrade to Anthem M1s "to really open up the Sigs." (He also advised I should upgrade my 12 gauge Monoprice speaker wire to $1,500 Audioquest jumpers/connects.)


I have a 14 x 20 x 7 room. I'm sitting 11 feet from the front stage. The Sigs sound great with the Emotiva amps. I can listen to them as loud as I want with no problems (90 db, at least according to my RadioShack SPL). I don't normally listen to anything that loud for sustained periods. I seriously question whether I would hear an improvement if I dropped $7,500 for M1s, considering how good they sound now. I certainly wouldn't hear a $7,500 improvement.


As long as you can listen to your Sigs at your desired volume levels, I wouldn't bother with an external amp. If you ultimately plan to move to 7.1, then maybe the upgrade makes more sense, as the two additional channels might overwhelm the receiver.
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post #32118 of 32122 Unread Today, 10:44 AM
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That's seems to be a pretty good price. If these were rosenut, I would easily purchase them from you mainly to get the surrounds and center. Good luck with the sale!
I think the black center and rosenut towers would look really nice together.
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post #32119 of 32122 Unread Today, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Civik99si View Post
I have been thinking about this same question. I had a 100s/690/590s setup powered by an Emotiva XPA-5 (200w x 5 on the center, 4 surrounds) and XPA-2 (300 watt x 2 on the 100s). I recently came across a good deal on a used set of S8 v.3s. I bought a C5 as well after the dealer reluctantly agreed to give me 20% off. The dealer asked what I was using to power the Sigs. I told him the same thing I was using for the Studios. He looked at me in derision and disgust almost. He said why would I do that, "its like putting cheap tires on a Ferrari." He advised I would need to upgrade to Anthem M1s "to really open up the Sigs." (He also advised I should upgrade my 12 gauge Monoprice speaker wire to $1,500 Audioquest jumpers/connects.)


I have a 14 x 20 x 7 room. I'm sitting 11 feet from the front stage. The Sigs sound great with the Emotiva amps. I can listen to them as loud as I want with no problems (90 db, at least according to my RadioShack SPL). I don't normally listen to anything that loud for sustained periods. I seriously question whether I would hear an improvement if I dropped $7,500 for M1s, considering how good they sound now. I certainly wouldn't hear a $7,500 improvement.


As long as you can listen to your Sigs at your desired volume levels, I wouldn't bother with an external amp. If you ultimately plan to move to 7.1, then maybe the upgrade makes more sense, as the two additional channels might overwhelm the receiver.
This advise to buy new amps comes from a guy who has likely never even listened to the Emotiva amp you have now. How does he know your current amp doesn't "open them up"?
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post #32120 of 32122 Unread Today, 11:42 AM
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I've had Emotiva amps and they are really good for the money! I had them on my S8's and C5. I have para sound now and love them. But you won't be disappointed with the Emotiva amps. I plan on using their mono blocks for my other system
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post #32121 of 32122 Unread Today, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orcrone View Post
You didn't say anything about budget (or I just missed it). But considering you have S8s I'm guessing that you don't mind spending a few dollars on equipment. The S8s are very efficient and they're rated at 8 ohm impedance. With that said I'm driving my Studio 100s with a Sunfire TGA-7401 amp (400 watts/channel into 8 ohms). It only weighs 46 pounds and the beast stays cool without fans or even grill openings on top. It might be overkill but my Studio 100s sound excellent with that amp. However, the S8s are more efficient (about 3 dB) than my Studio 100s and Emotiva and Outlaw make some excellent products.
TBH, I haven't finalized my budget yet. I think what I'm trying to get a feel for is the point at which I'll start hitting the law of diminishing marginal returns. I'm sure the more I spend the better it will be, but at what point does the difference become negligible? I'd definitely like to take the opportunity to make a significant upgrade to the Denon 4308ci. I'm hoping (and expecting) that by moving to separates it'll be a very noticeable difference. And by that I mean noticeable to my wife. (That's the a high bar, since the difference would need to be pretty dramatic for her to notice. )

In terms of rough scale, I was thinking about $6k for both the amp and the pre-amp. Outlaw has a bundle of the Marantz AV8801 pre-amp (which Stereophile loved) and their AV8801amp for $4600 shipped. Having done all of one day of research, that's already sounding pretty tempting. But it's been a long time since I've looked at HT gear, so I need to get a sense of what's out there, what matters, etc. If I spend another $1400 (especially for something much higher end but gently used on Audiogon), how much better would it be?

I recently started a new business, and my wife and I have agreed that if it does well, she'll give me the green light to remodel the HT -- add acoustic paneling, motorized shades for the windows, etc. (She gets to buy herself something to celebrate too. ) If and when that happens, I'm considering upgrading to Atmos + 7.2 (which I guess makes it 9.2?). Again, that would be a nice-to-have feature, since I'm not sure I'll ever pull the trigger on something like that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dla26 View Post
TBH, I haven't finalized my budget yet. I think what I'm trying to get a feel for is the point at which I'll start hitting the law of diminishing marginal returns. I'm sure the more I spend the better it will be, but at what point does the difference become negligible? I'd definitely like to take the opportunity to make a significant upgrade to the Denon 4308ci. I'm hoping (and expecting) that by moving to separates it'll be a very noticeable difference. And by that I mean noticeable to my wife. (That's the a high bar, since the difference would need to be pretty dramatic for her to notice. )

In terms of rough scale, I was thinking about $6k for both the amp and the pre-amp. Outlaw has a bundle of the Marantz AV8801 pre-amp (which Stereophile loved) and their AV8801amp for $4600 shipped. Having done all of one day of research, that's already sounding pretty tempting. But it's been a long time since I've looked at HT gear, so I need to get a sense of what's out there, what matters, etc. If I spend another $1400 (especially for something much higher end but gently used on Audiogon), how much better would it be?

I recently started a new business, and my wife and I have agreed that if it does well, she'll give me the green light to remodel the HT -- add acoustic paneling, motorized shades for the windows, etc. (She gets to buy herself something to celebrate too. ) If and when that happens, I'm considering upgrading to Atmos + 7.2 (which I guess makes it 9.2?). Again, that would be a nice-to-have feature, since I'm not sure I'll ever pull the trigger on something like that.
I'm of the same mindset as you regarding the law of diminishing returns. I was running my amplifier through the preamp outputs of my Yamaha RX-A2030. I then came across a great deal on the AV8801 preamp, $1499 new. It is a nice piece of equipment, but I'm not sure if I see a hear much of a difference between that and my Yamaha. Likewise you might get better sound out of higher end amplifiers. But I'm not going to sit there and A/B compare two products after I've purchased one. I'm sure others would disagree with me but as long as you have a good quality amp that puts out the wattage you need, including having enough left over for transients, you would be hard pressed to hear a difference. I would doubt that you'd have buyers remorse with either Emotiva or Outlaw.

You wrote the AV8801 preamp/amp combo is about $4600. I believe you mean the the AV8801 preamp/7900 amp combination. The 7900 is quite the beast; weighing in at 145 pounds and requiring TWO DEDICATED 15 amp circuits. I'm pretty sure that either the 7200 or 7700 would do the trick for you, along with saving a lot of money; both on the price of the amplifier and the back surgery you'll avoid by not having to pick up the 7900.
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