Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 1107 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #33181 of 33192 Old Yesterday, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mdchaser View Post
I completely agree however due to my situation (I can only order from this specific dealer) I am stuck with Paradigms, Yamahas, Sonys, or Klipsch... Of those the only speakers I would consider are from Paradigm .
If I were stuck with these choices I would be seeking Tribute. Similar price to prestige and a much better speaker.

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post #33182 of 33192 Old Yesterday, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonas2 View Post
If I end up with Prestiges, I'm running "in the nude". They do look stunning without the grilles - it's what first attracted me to them as soon as I played eyes on them.
There is one thing I thought was strange about the grille. On the 95F, if you wish to have the tweeter exposed but keep the grille ON, it magnetically clamps to cover the bottom 1/2 inch of the tweeter. Has anyone else seen this on the 95F? On Paradigm's website no part of the tweeter is covered in the images. The salesperson I worked with thought the grilles for the L/R speakers might have gotten mixed up, but he couldn't find the matching second grille.

I couldn't imagine that this would be the issue. Any 95F owners out there?
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post #33183 of 33192 Old Yesterday, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Is there an appreciable difference between the CI Home vs the Pros? They are gonna be ceilings and surrounds so most of my money is going into the front 3.

Basically, are the home junk? If they are not assembled in Canada where are they assembled?
Thoughts?
Also, is there an appreciable difference between the Prestige 75's and the monitor 11's. I'm looking for a cleaner clearer sound.
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post #33184 of 33192 Old Yesterday, 09:06 PM
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Have Studio 60v4s and cc690.

What speaker models would go best with those as follows:

1. Atmos up-firing for top of studio 60s
2. In-ceiling height speakers
3. L/R surrounds (on-wall, not in-wall)
4. In-ceiling rear surrounds

Looking to complete an Atmos setup
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post #33185 of 33192 Old Yesterday, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Have Studio 60v4s and cc690.

What speaker models would go best with those as follows:

1. Atmos up-firing for top of studio 60s
2. In-ceiling height speakers
3. L/R surrounds (on-wall, not in-wall)
4. In-ceiling rear surrounds

Looking to complete an Atmos setup
In or on ceiling overheads for Atmos would give you superior 3D envelopment. Side and rear surrounds just above head level while seated. Look for monopoles, or if you have to, bipoles, but not dipoles.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #33186 of 33192 Old Yesterday, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousWarrior View Post
There is one thing I thought was strange about the grille. On the 95F, if you wish to have the tweeter exposed but keep the grille ON, it magnetically clamps to cover the bottom 1/2 inch of the tweeter. Has anyone else seen this on the 95F? On Paradigm's website no part of the tweeter is covered in the images. The salesperson I worked with thought the grilles for the L/R speakers might have gotten mixed up, but he couldn't find the matching second grille.
That doesn't sound right. I wouldn't think left or right would matter, but maybe it's upside down if only half the tweeter is exposed? You're right - on the Paradigm website it clearly demonstrates a fully revealed tweeter. My dealer doesn't have the 95, but on the 85 I noticed that tweeter exposed vs. tweeter covered I had to flip the grille 180 degrees on the vertical for the magnets to line up. Thought this was a bit odd.....
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post #33187 of 33192 Old Today, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Also, is there an appreciable difference between the Prestige 75's and the monitor 11's. I'm looking for a cleaner clearer sound.
Yes, there is a difference but the Monitors are very good values for the money. For the in wall/in ceiling speakers the Pro series would more closely match to the Monitor series and the Elite series for the Prestige. The Home series is not junk and it would be fine to use them for surround duty with the Monitors if stretching the budget. I would also use the Pro with the Prestige if stretching the budget but I wouldn't math the prestige with the Home series. The Home and Monitor series are made in China.
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post #33188 of 33192 Old Today, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Is there an appreciable difference between the CI Home vs the Pros? They are gonna be ceilings and surrounds so most of my money is going into the front 3.

Basically, are the home junk? If they are not assembled in Canada where are they assembled?
Thoughts?
I don't where they're assembled, but the Pro's are pretty good. I have four Pro 65's for the ceiling and am pleased. I'm unsure that if I had the chance, I'd get the Pro 80s. It's probably likely.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tjcinnamon View Post
Also, is there an appreciable difference between the Prestige 75's and the monitor 11's. I'm looking for a cleaner clearer sound.
Cleaner and clearer describes exactly the difference between the two. I auditioned them in the same day within minutes of each other. The 11's had more bass and I'd be happy with them if that's what my budget called for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellebob View Post
Yes, there is a difference but the Monitors are very good values for the money. For the in wall/in ceiling speakers the Pro series would more closely match to the Monitor series and the Elite series for the Prestige. The Home series is not junk and it would be fine to use them for surround duty with the Monitors if stretching the budget. I would also use the Pro with the Prestige if stretching the budget but I wouldn't math the prestige with the Home series. The Home and Monitor series are made in China.
I agree completely!
(I have the 9's), lol
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post #33189 of 33192 Old Today, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousWarrior View Post
There is one thing I thought was strange about the grille. On the 95F, if you wish to have the tweeter exposed but keep the grille ON, it magnetically clamps to cover the bottom 1/2 inch of the tweeter. Has anyone else seen this on the 95F? On Paradigm's website no part of the tweeter is covered in the images. The salesperson I worked with thought the grilles for the L/R speakers might have gotten mixed up, but he couldn't find the matching second grille.

I couldn't imagine that this would be the issue. Any 95F owners out there?
You are correct. With the grills oriented as they normally are (e.g. to cover all drivers) the magnets do not align in such a way as to allow you to cover the mid/bass drivers exposing only the tweeter. If you flip the grill 180 degrees the grill will adhere to the magnets, but it will only do so while masking the lower portion of the tweeter driver. Perhaps Paradigm has a redesigned grill already? When I was originally looking into these speakers I don't recall any of the gallery pictures showing the tweeter exposed as they do now, but I could be wrong. Moot point for me as I've tried the speakers with the grill both on and off. I prefer the sound with the grills in place. It knocks a little of the high frequency edge off making the sound more neutral, IMO.

HTH...
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post #33190 of 33192 Old Today, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by mdchaser View Post
Good to know, I'll play with the settings if I end up with a pair. I don't know how high the seismic sub will play but it seems to perform admirably up to the 80hz setting I'm currently using.
Definitely play around. As noted earlier, the room and the particulars of your system play a big role. In general, when I set systems up, I start lower rather than high w/a speaker that has good bass output. Reasons are two-fold: a) the more you rely on the speaker's internal x-over for integration, the better off you usually are (I find the bass in the 95f very well-integrated, and b) the lower you go the less directional signals are coming from the sub. But again, room modes from things like ceiling height and other factors all make it anything but a fait accompli. And a 10" or 12" driver doing 50z forex. will energize the air more than an 8" or 6.5" driver. Also as noted earlier, when you really nail it, at whatever hz that might be, the whole soundstage opens; it's much more than an improvement of just the bass.

As for the Stereophile review, it's always worth repeating: that's just one guy's opinion. There are many glowing reviews of the Prestige series -- other guy's opinions. I reviewed for many years and know that world well.
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post #33191 of 33192 Old Today, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by quick66 View Post
You are correct. With the grills oriented as they normally are (e.g. to cover all drivers) the magnets do not align in such a way as to allow you to cover the mid/bass drivers exposing only the tweeter. If you flip the grill 180 degrees the grill will adhere to the magnets, but it will only do so while masking the lower portion of the tweeter driver. Perhaps Paradigm has a redesigned grill already? When I was originally looking into these speakers I don't recall any of the gallery pictures showing the tweeter exposed as they do now, but I could be wrong. Moot point for me as I've tried the speakers with the grill both on and off. I prefer the sound with the grills in place. It knocks a little of the high frequency edge off making the sound more neutral, IMO.

HTH...
Thank you for the confirmation. That must be a design flaw, as I've seen a picture directly from Paradigm, and the tweeter definitely was not covered at all. Also, on their website if you use the hover button on the Prestige series speakers (on their respective pages) it places the grille over the speaker, and it does not cover the tweeter.

For example, hover your mouse over the speaker on this page:

http://www.paradigm.com/products-cur.../page=overview

Its a shame, as that is the method in which I intended to display the speakers- with the tweeter exposed. But the current design just looks weird. For $2500 per speaker, I would have expected a little more attention to detail.

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post #33192 of 33192 Old Today, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by LuminousWarrior View Post
I don't think things can always easily be placed into the "cost-cutting" bucket when a design change happens that appears to have dissonance to the current norm. Perhaps the change in cabinet design and going from a 3 way setup to 2.5 may be a cost savings consideration, but neither may be true. Or only one of the two may be true. I have a long history in industrial manufacturing, and technological, composite, and mechanical innovations drastically change the landscape of what can be done with various materials in the same or differing form factors. The different manufacturing processes now available, technological innovations built into these processes, coupled with basic design and aesthetic considerations are all taken into account when creating a product. As an example, I've been reading alot about cabinet construction [box, tear, etc], and the consensus seems to be....."it depends". Crossover points, drivers, material density, internal dampening features, etc, are much more important, and these considerations may lead to a change in the cabinet design. So is the return of the "box" a cost cutting measure? Not necessarily. It could simply be a marketing tool to further separate the Prestige and Signature line.

My point is you can't look at the Studio line, compare it to the Prestige line and say "square box + 2.5 way speakers = inferior product. I can understand if people say "I prefer this sound to that sound", but I think Paradigm absolutely believes they have created a superior product to the Studio 100s.
I saw this comment at Home Theater review, which I think provides some insight into what paradigm was hoping to accomplish:
<...>
Excellent post. I think you and I are on the same page with this. In the R&D world, taking things from the lab to manufacturing is not always that easy; however, advances in materials have been significant in general (i.e., not just in speaker design) over the years. E.g., sandwich a piece of balsa wood in the middle between two layers of the right carbon fiber and you have something that is extremely light-weight, yet extremely hard to bend compared to many metals - this is something that would have been impossible in the not-too-distant past. To stay with older designs or more common materials when there are newer designs that are complimented by advances in materials would be a shame, IMHO.

Since I did have a chance to listen to the 85Fs and the 95Fs, I tend to trust the other judgments of the Prestige series because they are similar to my experience.

I think you make good points about the move back to the box design, and also for noting the bass/mid driver. From the article quoted below:
Quote:
The Prestige range drops the modern trend toward cabinets with curved side and rear panels in favor of a more traditional, rectilinear design. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Those curvy cabinets are a bit more rigid, but the popular claim that they reduce internal standing waves is, at best, specious (footnote 1).
Quote:
Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post
Its not all milk and honey with the Prestige. Too much top end energy and problematic bass are the usual complaints.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/p...YKt6jUtSbRU.97
I read this article before my audition. I note that the high problems are are noted with the 15B, and on material that is less than optimally recorded.

When I bought my Monitor 11se MKIIIs some 20-years ago, I compared them side-by-side to the equivalent Studio series speaker. To echo what the review said about recording quality: Which speaker sounded better to me was dependent on the CD that was playing at the time. Some CDs sounded better on the Studio, some on the Monitor. It was precisely for that reason that I picked the Monitor series as I thought that it was a better value for the money.

When I auditioned the Studio 100s a couple of years ago, I specifically asked the question if there was any of this kind cross over in quality from the monitor line to the studio line, and the sales person said that there was but it was not as much as before. From my point of view, the fact that Paradigm tries to do the best they can for each price range may have hurt them over the years in that value conscious buyers might choose the lower end models for the same reason I did.

This again crossed my mind with the design of the current monitor speakers - since they all have aluminum cones. Though I did not do a side-by-side comparison of them with the Prestige, I tend to trust what others have said in the thread - i.e., the monitors have the lower-quality sound. Certainly, though not through a side-by-side, I thought my 11se MKIIIs did not sound as good as the Studio 100s I auditioned a couple of years ago.

A take away for me from that experience is that the speakers are the last stage in the chain of the listening experience, and the source material is the first stage. Personally, I don't see any speaker consistently sounding great on all source material, and I also do not think that if this is the case, it is the fault of the speaker. I am more likely to chalk it up to a less than pristine recording. Perhaps there are speakers out there that do sound great on all source material, however, I suspect that they might be out of my budget range.
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