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post #541 of 30547 Old 11-07-2005, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redline65 View Post

Congrats! I just installed a pair of SA-15R in-ceilings yesterday for my surrounds. I'm extremely happy with them. I was a little worried because of everything I've read about not using in-ceiling speakers, but these diffuse sound very well. I can't really tell the sound is coming from the ceiling, it seems like it comes from the sides. I'm glad I decided to go with them instead of some Atoms mounted to the ceiling, the flush-mounted speakers look so clean!

Inwalls have been precieved as a risk when compared to the floorstanding speakers. I am presently working with one of the staff over at Paradigm that designed the inwalls and I think he is more excited than I am on how they are going to sound. Also, with the inwalls, when I eventually sell my home the value will probably increase more than the speakers are worth. I will be advertising my house to include a custom inwall basement theatre setup! This setup will be appealing to both the guys and gals because it has the power for the men and the "invisibility" for the wemon. I can handle that, buy some serious speakers and get paid at the end for using them

L
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post #542 of 30547 Old 11-08-2005, 02:23 PM
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So a couple months ago I decide to buy Paradigm Signatures for my new HT. A couple S4s, four ADPS and a C3. The first dealer I visit offers me a very low discount so I walk and go to another not so local (1+ Hour drive) dealer who offers me a reasonable discount but indicates the S4s are going to take 6 weeks. Actually the first dealer also indicated the S4s would take 6 weeks.

5 weeks ago I pulled the trigger and ordered the Signatures. Today I called and asked the dealer to find out if the speakers are going to ship next week and he said he would call Paradigm and get back to me. He called back and told me the speakers will ship in 6 weeks. Huh?

So I told him I ordered them 5 weeks ago with a 6 week lead time. How could they still be 6 weeks out? I told him to call me tomorrow with better news or I was going to cancel the entire order. I have nothing to lose since Im going to have to wait for 6 weeks either way and at least I can try a third dealer who perhaps is a bit more reputable.

Any other advice?

Thanks

John

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post #543 of 30547 Old 11-08-2005, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRose View Post

So a couple months ago I decide to buy Paradigm Signatures for my new HT. A couple S4s, four ADPS and a C3. The first dealer I visit offers me a very low discount so I walk and go to another not so local (1+ Hour drive) dealer who offers me a reasonable discount but indicates the S4s are going to take 6 weeks. Actually the first dealer also indicated the S4s would take 6 weeks.

5 weeks ago I pulled the trigger and ordered the Signatures. Today I called and asked the dealer to find out if the speakers are going to ship next week and he said he would call Paradigm and get back to me. He called back and told me the speakers will ship in 6 weeks. Huh?

So I told him I ordered them 5 weeks ago with a 6 week lead time. How could they still be 6 weeks out? I told him to call me tomorrow with better news or I was going to cancel the entire order. I have nothing to lose since Im going to have to wait for 6 weeks either way and at least I can try a third dealer who perhaps is a bit more reputable.

Any other advice?

Thanks

John

Yes
Tell all the name of the dealer so no one else gets lampooned.
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post #544 of 30547 Old 11-08-2005, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRose View Post

So a couple months ago I decide to buy Paradigm Signatures for my new HT. A couple S4s, four ADPS and a C3. The first dealer I visit offers me a very low discount so I walk and go to another not so local (1+ Hour drive) dealer who offers me a reasonable discount but indicates the S4s are going to take 6 weeks. Actually the first dealer also indicated the S4s would take 6 weeks.

5 weeks ago I pulled the trigger and ordered the Signatures. Today I called and asked the dealer to find out if the speakers are going to ship next week and he said he would call Paradigm and get back to me. He called back and told me the speakers will ship in 6 weeks. Huh?

So I told him I ordered them 5 weeks ago with a 6 week lead time. How could they still be 6 weeks out? I told him to call me tomorrow with better news or I was going to cancel the entire order. I have nothing to lose since Im going to have to wait for 6 weeks either way and at least I can try a third dealer who perhaps is a bit more reputable.

Any other advice?

Thanks

John


That really sucks. I wonder why they are on back order. I got my whole setup in 3days. What finish did you choose?

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post #545 of 30547 Old 11-08-2005, 04:32 PM
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I chose the Cherry finish. Which I believe is the "standard" finish.

The dealer I ordered from is Sound Perfection in Palo Alto, California. Perhaps Im taking my purchase too seriously but I would have thought that buying $8,000 ($10,000 inc the sub which I already have) worth of speakers would have resulted a comensurate level of service. When they called today and told me the speakers would be shipped in 6 weeks, they said it as if it was no big deal. As if I should be happy just to get an update.

I spoke to another dealer this afternoon and they confirmed the 6 week lead time but added that they think it would probably be longer. They offered to lend me a couple S4s from the floor until mine showed up. The rest of the speakers could be here in a week or two.

My current dealer also offered to lend me 2 S4s until mine arrive but I just dont trust them any more.

Although I could have had my C3 and ADPs already, I requested that they all ship together because I read 6 weeks ago in this thread that one persons Signatures arrived with significantly different cherry finishes between the speakers. I told my dealer to just have them all ship at the same time to hopefully avoid this potential problem. Do you think this is an issue? Im concerned about it if I take the loaners only to get mine 2 years from now and they dont match the others.

Ive been trying to figure out why the S4s are back ordered but no other model is. I havent looked at it in detail but Im guessing that the components of the S4 (perhaps not the electronics) are the same as other signature models.

Does anyone have a contact at Paradigm that would know whats really going on?

John

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post #546 of 30547 Old 11-08-2005, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRose View Post

I spoke to another dealer this afternoon and they confirmed the 6 week lead time but added that they think it would probably be longer. They offered to lend me a couple S4s from the floor until mine showed up. The rest of the speakers could be here in a week or two.

My current dealer also offered to lend me 2 S4s until mine arrive but I just dont trust them any more.

John

Your current dealer told you six weeks, at 5 weeks out they checked with P-digm and were told another six weeks. You confirmed this with another dealer and you don't trust the original dealer????

Sounds like the problem is with P-digm and not the dealer.

JohnG
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post #547 of 30547 Old 11-08-2005, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnGZ28 View Post

Your current dealer told you six weeks, at 5 weeks out they checked with P-digm and were told another six weeks. You confirmed this with another dealer and you don't trust the original dealer????

Sounds like the problem is with P-digm and not the dealer.

Well it might be both but my problem with my dealer is two fold. First off, they should have been checking before I called. Second, when I did call they acted as if 6 weeks out from today was perfectly OK. There was no "I have some bad news", no "let me try to call someone else I know at Paradigm to fix this". Nothing. Just "they will ship in 6 weeks". Almost like they didnt even know that I ordered them 5 weeks ago. They also required a 50% deposit which I think is a bit excessive for a 6 week wait.

I did confirm the 6 week lead time with another dealer but that is 6 weeks from today assuming you order today. Not 6 weeks from today assuming you ordered 5 weeks ago.

In either case, there is a problem. Perhaps its with Paradigm which wouldnt surprise me. Im going to look at Triad Golds tomorrow and if they sound good, Im going to cancel my order for the Paradigms and get the Triads.

I have a feeling that something is going on that Paradigm and/or my dealer are not being honest about and that is an uneasy feeling when you are dumping $8K in speakers. Wouldnt you think that they would offer some type of explanation? Material shortage, etc? None! Nada. Just "the speakers will ship in 6 weeks". Now be happy and go away and dont call us again for 6 weeks (at which time we will tell you they will ship in 6 weeks).

I aplogize for the attitude but Ive been working on my first HT since May and its now complete, less the speakers. I have been watching the calendar thinking I would get to give it a test drive next week. Thats not going to happen.

John

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post #548 of 30547 Old 11-08-2005, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunz View Post

I'm getting ready to upgrade my speakers. I'm curious to know if I'd be disappointed in the Studio 100's?

I want the Signature S8's, C5, and ADP's, but due to the insane amounts of cash I've been spending on upgrades lately, they simply are not an option. I guess that's what really got me down, cause I've heard some people here say that the sigs are better. Which makes perfect since really, I mean look at the difference in cost. Heck it would be a shame if they weren't better for that kind of a price difference.

I probably could go with the Sigs if I went with the S4's, but I don't know if that'd be worth it? I mean would I be better off going with the S4's over the Studio 100's, or vice versa? I'm lost here, and am in real need of help.

Thanks



Gunz

Gunz -

As an owner of the S4s, if you plan to run them with a sub, I don't think you'll be disappointed vs. the Studio 100's. However, the Studio series offer better performance for the dollar. Sure the drivers may be slightly better in the Signature series, but I assure you that a good portion of the price difference comes from the cabinetry. The curved, veneered and lacquered cabinets of the Signature series doesn't come cheap. Unlike the Studio Series cabinets, which are assembled in-house at Paradigm, the Signature cabinets are imported from Denmark.

In the end I think you'll get 90% of the performance from the Studio line vs the Signature line, so if the aesthetic quality and workmanship of the cabinets isn't important, then I would go with the Studio line.

- Tim
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post #549 of 30547 Old 11-08-2005, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelggray View Post

I recently purchased a Denon 3806 receiver, a SVS PB-10 sub, ADP-170 surrounds and a CC-270 center. I using my (approx) 12 year old paradigm 7SEMKIII's for the mains. I expected that perhaps the old speakers that I'm using for the mains would not sound that good compared to the new center and surrounds. However, the problem i'm having is I'm not satisfied with the center, The dialogue all sounds muffled or muddy. The dialogue when coming only from the mains sounds natural and clear. Has anyone done a comparison test between the CC-270 and CC-370. If so is there a significant difference? What are peoples impressions of these. Also the CC-270 that the store sold me is Ver 3., they are ordering a ver 4 for me and are going to exchange mine when it comes in. Is there a significant difference between ver 3 and 4? Thanks.

I think the problem you are running into is due to the horizontal Woofer-Tweeter-Woofer layout of the speaker. Any center speaker that uses this driver configuration is bound to sound unnatural if listened to even just slightly off axis. You may have to go with the 570, which adds a midrange driver below the tweeter. Placing the mid below the tweeter largely eliminates the off-axis frequency response problems. However, you may be able to get better performance out of your current center channel simply by moving it. If the speaker is in a cabinet, or well above or below ear level, this could be causing the problem. Try putting it in free space and tilting it to point at your seated ear height.

Good luck,

- Tim
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post #550 of 30547 Old 11-09-2005, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRose View Post

I have a feeling that something is going on that Paradigm and/or my dealer are not being honest about and that is an uneasy feeling when you are dumping $8K in speakers. Wouldnt you think that they would offer some type of explanation? Material shortage, etc? None! Nada. Just "the speakers will ship in 6 weeks". Now be happy and go away and dont call us again for 6 weeks (at which time we will tell you they will ship in 6 weeks).

I aplogize for the attitude but Ive been working on my first HT since May and its now complete, less the speakers. I have been watching the calendar thinking I would get to give it a test drive next week. Thats not going to happen.

John

IMO, I don't think you're being unreasonable. I understand what you mean how the dealers can be very nonchalant (sp?) in these situations. I really think it shouldn't matter how much you spent, and I certainly wouldn't expect special attention, but the level of service based on my experience is not anywhere near top notch. I sometimes feel this is especially true when they know you really have no local dealer options if you want to stick with the same manufacturer. Hang tight dude...
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post #551 of 30547 Old 11-09-2005, 09:20 AM
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Studio 40 in front
CC-570 for center
2 Servo-15 V.2 for bass
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post #552 of 30547 Old 11-09-2005, 02:08 PM
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I spoke to Paradigm today and they told me that they were waiting for parts from a supplier and that is what has caused the delays with the S4s. I asked if the parts have arrived yet and I was told no but they believe the parts will arrive in time to ship S4s in 6 weeks.

For what its worth, they believed the same thing 6 weeks ago.

Now Im torn between waiting 6+ weeks for speakers or looking for some other speakers. Im heading out today to listen to Triad Golds. Do any of you Paradigm owners have any suggestions on similar speakers?

Im looking for comparable speakers to the Signature S4s, C3 and ADPs.

Thanks

John

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post #553 of 30547 Old 11-09-2005, 02:30 PM
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John,

Check out Totems. They are outstanding. If you like Paras, you'll love these. I ultimately decided on the Para Studios because they were a little cheaper. But, they are worth a listen.

Totem

One side note -- they are rated at 4ohm. You'll need a serious receiver/amp to drive them well.

Steve
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post #554 of 30547 Old 11-09-2005, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swithey View Post

John,

Check out Totems. They are oustanding. If you like Paras, you'll love these. I ultimately decided on the Para Studios because they were a little cheaper. But, they are worth a listen.
Steve


Ditto on the Totems, definately worth a look see.

JohnG
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post #555 of 30547 Old 11-09-2005, 06:14 PM
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JohnntRose, any word RE S8 shipping delays?
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post #556 of 30547 Old 11-09-2005, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRose View Post

I spoke to Paradigm today and they told me that they were waiting for parts from a supplier and that is what has caused the delays with the S4s. I asked if the parts have arrived yet and I was told no but they believe the parts will arrive in time to ship S4s in 6 weeks.

For what its worth, they believed the same thing 6 weeks ago.

Now Im torn between waiting 6+ weeks for speakers or looking for some other speakers. Im heading out today to listen to Triad Golds. Do any of you Paradigm owners have any suggestions on similar speakers?

Im looking for comparable speakers to the Signature S4s, C3 and ADPs.

Thanks

John


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post #557 of 30547 Old 11-10-2005, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by video_bit_bucket View Post

JohnntRose, any word RE S8 shipping delays?

Only the S4s (in cherry) are backordered which makes me believe that its the cabinets that are holding them up. I read in a thread here that the Signature cabinets come from Europe. Finland? Sweden?

John

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post #558 of 30547 Old 11-10-2005, 08:30 AM
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<---- Paid for Studio 60's last Saturday, 2-3 weeks till they come though

I guess it's not something they stock, store claims there are lots of models so they have to pick and choose or something. In any case, the wait SUCKS.

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post #559 of 30547 Old 11-10-2005, 10:47 PM
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Sorry, if this has been discussed before, but I got tired of searching.
Has anybody gone from a CC470 to the CC570? Or compared the two?
Is the 570 clearer from having the seperate mid driver?

I have the 470 and finding it a little "muddy"(?). I am wondering if the 570 would be a little better? I have moved it around as much as I can, but still not totally happy with it.
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post #560 of 30547 Old 11-11-2005, 12:44 AM
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Started the long process of upgrading my HT.
Started out with a ROTEL RMB 1095, using my older HK AVR 5550 till I get a Rotel preamp.
Just ordered the following:
Studio 100's
cc570
ADP 470's
Servo 15 v2
All in Rosenut finish

Local dealer just informed that Paradigm have not yet started production of the Servo 15 in 230v configuration, they will be able to ship December 15th, which means I'm not getting anything till end December.

Really looking forward to these speakers, I am sure they will be a step up from my current Infinity Alpha speakers (though these sound a lot better now with the Rotel power).
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post #561 of 30547 Old 11-11-2005, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redline65 View Post

Congrats! I just installed a pair of SA-15R in-ceilings yesterday for my surrounds. I'm extremely happy with them. I was a little worried because of everything I've read about not using in-ceiling speakers, but these diffuse sound very well. I can't really tell the sound is coming from the ceiling, it seems like it comes from the sides. I'm glad I decided to go with them instead of some Atoms mounted to the ceiling, the flush-mounted speakers look so clean!

Hey Redline, I have the same SA-15Rs in my ceiling as well for surrounds. They actually blend nicely with my S2s and C3 which I was pleasantly surprised about. They're pretty good for the price, no complaints on my part. And they can play pretty loud too for such a small in-ceiling speaker!
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post #562 of 30547 Old 11-11-2005, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRose View Post

Although I could have had my C3 and ADPs already, I requested that they all ship together because I read 6 weeks ago in this thread that one persons Signatures arrived with significantly different cherry finishes between the speakers.

John the Sigs have serial numbers on the back. Try to get speakers with consecutive numbers, this may increase the odds that they're from the same batch and that the finish will be close.
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post #563 of 30547 Old 11-13-2005, 09:03 AM
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Glad to see there's a dedicated Paradigm thread! I've had the following setup in a non dedicated room for about 5 years:

60's, Studio CC, Studio ADP's (all Reference), PS-1000 sub, all driven by Yamaha 5250 (100W x 5).

I'm happy with the sound, but wonder if any of the following will improve the sound prior to building a dedicated room:

1) Do nothing...won't be able to tell until you're in a dedicated environment.

2) BiWire by running speaker line from one set of posts to the other. (I was told this was just as effective as running a line from the receiver.)

3) BiAmp by using 5250 as main wired to bottom end and another 5.1 Yamaha 70W (already own) to high end.

4) Buy either Panny or JVC digital receiver. I like the JVC 402 because it has HDMI. Any quality difference? Wait for NuForce?

5) Use the 5250 as pre and buy decent power amp. How many watts?

6) This one's a little out there....keep 5250 as pre and buy 5 stereo amps to vertically biamp each speaker. Would a pro amp like a Crown XLS 202 work in a home environment?

Appreciate any thoughts, thanks.
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post #564 of 30547 Old 11-13-2005, 09:11 AM
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I have a dilemma. I have a Denon AVR-3803 powering my Studio 60 fronts and CC-570 center and have calibrated the levels with my SPL meter but I always have to crank the center channel level to enjoy watching movies otherwise I can't clearly hear the dialogue. Is this common or is it just me?
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post #565 of 30547 Old 11-13-2005, 09:54 AM
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I have the same dillama , I am using a 3805 with Studio 40 - my Center is only a CC-350 So I thought that may be a problem BUT if you have the same with a CC -570 Yikes I a, glad I did not upgrade yet .
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post #566 of 30547 Old 11-13-2005, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8f8 View Post

1) Do nothing...won't be able to tell until you're in a dedicated environment.

You're basically correct.. room treatments will probably enhance your listening experience more than anything.
Quote:


2) BiWire by running speaker line from one set of posts to the other. (I was told this was just as effective as running a line from the receiver.)

Biwiring will gain you the following: redundancy in case one of the wires gets cut, and a total higher gauge (2 x 16 AWG instead of perhaps 1). You're not going to hear a difference no matter whether you're in a dedicated room or not.
Quote:


3) BiAmp by using 5250 as main wired to bottom end and another 5.1 Yamaha 70W (already own) to high end.

This is only going to help if you've already got a very nice separate power amp and want to step it up even further. At that point, your limiting factor is the speakers themselves anyway.
Quote:


4) Buy either Panny or JVC digital receiver. I like the JVC 402 because it has HDMI. Any quality difference? Wait for NuForce?

Given you current receiver is a 5250, the first thing I would do if I were you is upgrade to a 7.1 receiver (with preouts) or pre/pro. It's already digital, so the receiver's not that bad, but I'd rather start off with a $700-1000 pre/pro and wait on the amp than get a $2000 amp and use it off of the 5250.
Quote:


5) Use the 5250 as pre and buy decent power amp. How many watts?

Remember that quality is as (or more) important than a wattage rating. Nevertheless, somewhere around 150-200W is a good place to start researching for the 60s.
Quote:


6) This one's a little out there....keep 5250 as pre and buy 5 stereo amps to vertically biamp each speaker. Would a pro amp like a Crown XLS 202 work in a home environment?

Overkill while still using the 5250. Look at other upgrades before this. Yes, you can use a Crown XLS 202, but they're quite loud so you'd want to have them in a separate room. I'd just as soon buy a 5 or 7 channel amp instead of five 202s.
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post #567 of 30547 Old 11-13-2005, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by efloen View Post

I have a dilemma. I have a Denon AVR-3803 powering my Studio 60 fronts and CC-570 center and have calibrated the levels with my SPL meter but I always have to crank the center channel level to enjoy watching movies otherwise I can't clearly hear the dialogue. Is this common or is it just me?

Do you have a picture off your setup so we can see how the center placed in relation to the seating area? Personally I have a CC570 and the dialogue is clear.
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post #568 of 30547 Old 11-13-2005, 12:30 PM
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gr8f8,
I have similar setup (Yammy RX-V2400, 60's L/R, CC-470, 20's SR/L) and added a 200Wx5 amp (Outlaw) last month. The difference was not dramatic, but the bass was more tight. You may notice more improvement because your amp section (5250) is rated a little less than my Yammy.

What seemed to help alot was speaker placement. After getting the amp, I also gave the speakers more room by moving them away from furniture a little more (only about 6"). Then it was much more dramatic of a change. So I don't know if just moving the speakers, or adding the amp, or both made the difference, but I'm extremely happy now.

I don't think biwiring with separate amps is advisable. The tweeters will get different amplification than the woofers, but the entire speaker loudness gets set by the receiver. So I think the amps should be balanced.

I also considered the Crowns before buying the Outlaw. I finally decided on Outlaw because the price was just a little more than going with XLS402's, but I didn't need the fan mod, I only have one box instead of three, the power turns off with the receiver without having to purchase a smart outlet, and less power cords.

Steve
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post #569 of 30547 Old 11-13-2005, 05:23 PM
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I was able to improve the clairity of my CC-570 today by raising it off the floor another 4" and by angling up quite a bit more so it is pointing right at me. I can't believe what a difference it makes to have it aimed properly!
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post #570 of 30547 Old 11-13-2005, 05:39 PM
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Tim,

Thanks for the feedback...my wife thanks you too for throwing water on the Crown idea! Curious...are you saying a good pre/pro will make a noticable difference? If so, can you give me some background on that? I've been under the impression that "headroom" was most important. Thanks.
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