Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 30468 Old 12-27-2005, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DLPKID View Post

Have you tried the 60 v3's?...... I have. I took a demo pair home for a week and had them in the exact same environment as I do my 100s. I also happened to drive them with the same exact 4600 receiver. The reason I stepped up to the 100s was because I felt that the 60s did not have enough low end extension for my tastes. In hindsight, its clear to me that they would have been capable of more if I had driven them with sufficient power.

The 60s have a recommended Amplifier power range of 15 - 200 watts. The 3806 would be lucky to put out its 120 watt power rating spec in 2 channel mode, let alone in a 5.1 setup.

Look....my only point is that while the 60s may sound good with a receiver, they can sound better with stronger amplification.

Having fueled this debate over the relative advantages of the Denon AVR 3806 vs. a separate amp, I should mention that I'm using the unused Surround Back channels of the 3806 to bi-amp the front l-r Studio 60 V.3s. That may not be quite the same as using a high-end, separate amp, and I may not be getting "true" power of 240 wpc, but it has made a nice difference.
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post #812 of 30468 Old 12-27-2005, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPKID View Post

Have you tried the 60 v3's?...... I have. I took a demo pair home for a week and had them in the exact same environment as I do my 100s. I also happened to drive them with the same exact 4600 receiver. The reason I stepped up to the 100s was because I felt that the 60s did not have enough low end extension for my tastes. In hindsight, its clear to me that they would have been capable of more if I had driven them with sufficient power.

The 60s have a recommended Amplifier power range of 15 - 200 watts. The 3806 would be lucky to put out its 120 watt power rating spec in 2 channel mode, let alone in a 5.1 setup.

Look....my only point is that while the 60s may sound good with a receiver, they can sound better with stronger amplification.

Oh and btw, my lead in to S2's post was genuine......yours on the other hand, appears condescending. If you've got an axe to grind, do it elsewhere. I'm only trying to help folks here based on my experience. When I was looking for my Paradigm setup, there was no owner thread. I could have really benefited from feedback from others.

I'm sorry my post appears to be condescending to you, I'm just speaking from experience. I have had Paradigms since 1994 and have even sold them at a local A/V store here in the city. Your post may have been genuine to you, but I dont see where you have tried external amplification on a pair of Studio 60's. Are you just assuming that the benefit the 100's receive would be the same? If you are trying to help based upon your experience, then do so and so will I.

Low end extension from a pair of mains is usually sought after from 2 channel purists since a subwoofer is not in the picture....is this what your setup is? I'm asking this as you mentioned that the 60's did not go low enough for you but the 100's seemed to suit your taste moreso. Do you have a center channel?

And as far as an axe to grind, no I dont. But if my post gets your feathers ruffled, then obviously you dont post on forums much.
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post #813 of 30468 Old 12-27-2005, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferdinand77 View Post

DLPkid-- great! do you feel that the 100s are better than the 60's ? in what way do you feel better if indeed they are better ?

Thanks.

Yes, I do think the 100s are better than the 60s......for what I was looking for with my mains, that is.

The major differences.

1. As JohnG pointed out....significantly better bass response.

2. The 100s are dedicated 5 driver true 3-way design, while the 60s are a 3 driver 2 1/2 way design.....i.e. the 100s have a more advanced internal crossover network.

3. The 100s can play louder than the 60s.

4. The 100s need more power to extract their maximum potential.

5. The 60s are ported in the front and rear, while the 100s are front-ported only (more of a design observation).

6. The 100s are about 4 inches taller and do have the propensity to overwhelm a smaller space such as a family room.

Not to downplay the 60s by any means (I do think they are superb towers, especially considering that they are ~45% cheaper than the 100s), but the 60s are essentially 40s in a larger cabinet. The cabinet does, however, make a significant difference in bass response. Based on my listening, the 60s did have the bass response of towers, while the 40s sounded like what they were.....very good bookshelfs.

I struggled a lot with my final decision, given that the 100s are a good deal more expensive. I was also more focused on music than HT and 2-channel listening was certainly high on the priority list. The 60s mated to the Yammy 4600 weren't doing it for me in terms of low-end extension. As I said in my previous post, I do honestly believe than an external amp would have improved the low-end of the 60s a good bit. I found the 60s getting harsh when cranking up the dial (what I now believe was a by product of the low-end not being able to keep up with the mids and highs due to insufficient amplification power, resulting in a tonal imbalance as the output increased).

I often listen to the 100s without any bass management or sub filler.....and I absolutely love them.

I posted a lot of when I was making my decision and one of the folks on the forum made a simple statement that pushed me over the edge. He simply said "Go for the 100s or you'll always wonder what if...". I'll also add that I absolutely blew my budget as my original intent was for a pairs of 40s powered by a receiver. I spent about 10 hours in total at my local store listening to the entire Studio lineup, using my CDs and a very wide variety of listening material. The Studios just had the type of sound I was looking for and hence, I didn't stray very far from them. The interesting part is that I ultimately went for the 100s even though I demo'ed them with only a Yamaha receiver. Little did I know their full potential until I drove them with more power.

By the way, not to create any more controversy, but IMHO I don't believe a bookshelf speaker + subwoofer is a substitute for a full range tower. Again, not just mouthing off, but speaking based on my audition of the Studio line with a PW2200 sub (and a good deal of tweaking while listening as well).
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post #814 of 30468 Old 12-27-2005, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

I'm sorry my post appears to be condescending to you, I'm just speaking from experience. I have had Paradigms since 1994 and have even sold them at a local A/V store here in the city. Your post may have been genuine to you, but I dont see where you have tried external amplification on a pair of Studio 60's. Are you just assuming that the benefit the 100's receive would be the same? If you are trying to help based upon your experience, then do so and so will I.

Low end extension from a pair of mains is usually sought after from 2 channel purists since a subwoofer is not in the picture....is this what your setup is? I'm asking this as you mentioned that the 60's did not go low enough for you but the 100's seemed to suit your taste moreso. Do you have a center channel?

And as far as an axe to grind, no I dont. But if my post gets your feathers ruffled, then obviously you dont post on forums much.


Fair enough. Your point it taken.

So....I'll ask you this - are all the folks here that are powering anything in the Studio lineup (besides the 100s) with anything more than a receiver wasting their money??? Maybe I should ask the poster with the 40s that made a comment a few posts earlier that his 40s benefited a good deal from an external amp.
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post #815 of 30468 Old 12-28-2005, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by efloen View Post

jkhome, Ultralink makes a nice spade that fits the Paradigm binding posts.

Thanks, efloen. I was considering getting the reusable Ultralink pro spade, looked very nice. Found a local "dealer" from their web site.

But the number I called was some guy who just installs A/V systems, probably out of his house, didn't carry them and didn't do retail. I knew I was in trouble when he answered the phone with a simple "Hello"?....

At a buck each, the Audioquest spade should work just fine on my $1 a foot CL-3 cable.

I do however need some Ultralink bananas to fit the Edison Price posts I have on my modified Magnepan MMGs and Aragon amp. Do you know of a decent on-line distributor?
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post #816 of 30468 Old 12-28-2005, 05:24 AM
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In the next few weeks I will be ordering a new center to go with my Studio 20v3s. Then the plan is to get the matching surrounds in the late spring.

So is it safe to assume that the version #3 line of the Studio series will be with us through 2006? I looked at some web material about Cedia 2005, couldn't find any reference to a version #4. Is there another upcoming show that I should tune in to?

Reason I ask is my dealer offers a one year trade up policy, so this spring I could trade up the 20s to another different version, but if that's the case I would hold off on the center.
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post #817 of 30468 Old 12-28-2005, 12:10 PM
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Do you foks think if I add an amp to my 40's & using my denon 3805 as a preamp I would notice a major diffrence ?
Alos has anyone honstly noticed inprovement from speaker cables /I now use SJ power cord!
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post #818 of 30468 Old 12-28-2005, 04:43 PM
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No, antman, I don't think there'd be any difference between the speaker wire and power cord of the same gauge. But there are plenty of heated comments from both sides in other threads that I suggest you look at. Especially regarding Monster being overpriced, etc. Since I'm sure nobody wants to turn this thread into a cable comparison, that's why I mention the other existing threads.

I personally don't think adding an external amp to the 40s instead of the 3805 would be a good price/performance gain. Sure, it would sound a bit better, but probably not for the cost of the amp. You could probably spend the same amount or less on different equipment/room treatments/etc.
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post #819 of 30468 Old 12-28-2005, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLPKID View Post

The 60s have a recommended Amplifier power range of 15 - 200 watts. The 3806 would be lucky to put out its 120 watt power rating spec in 2 channel mode, let alone in a 5.1 setup.

The 15-200W listed for the speakers (and this goes for all of Paradigm's listings in this column) is not a recommended amplifier power range. It is the input range that the speakers can handle without damaging them.

Paradigm actually recommends (in an ideal world) running an amplifier with plenty more power than the maximum range of the speaker, to allow for headroom. From their manual... (see last paragraph for the quote I'm referencing.. I'm just putting it all here for everyone's reference)

Quote:


From the Paradigm Reference Owners Manual ("Preventing Speaker Damage"):

Paradigm Reference speakers are efficient and can be driven to loud listening levels with moderate amplifier power. They are also able to handle the output of very powerful amplifiers. To prevent damage to your speakers, please read the following guidelines before hooking them up.

Amplifier Distortion - The #1 Culprit!
Amplifier distortion is the principal cause of speaker damage. When listening at loud levels your amplifier may run out of clean power. It will then begin to produce distorted power several times greater than its rated output power. This will damage any brand of speaker very quickly!

More Powerful Amplifiers are Safer
A 40 watt/channel amplifier will have substantial distortion above 40 watts. If driven to 50 watts, this amplifier will deliver distorted power - which will damage the speaker! A 100 watt/channel amplifier will have substantial distortion above 100 watts, but very low distortion below 100 watts. Therefore, when the speaker requires 50 watts, this more powerful amplifier will deliver clean power and speaker damage is less likely to occur.

Volume Control
Do not be fooled by the Volume Control of your receiver/preamplifier. It only adjusts listening level - it is not a "power-output" dial. The amount of amplifier power actually used at a given Volume Control setting depends solely on the nature of the music you are listening to. At a given Volume Control setting a quiet section of music will use less amplifier power than a loud section. With typical pop-rock, jazz or large scale classic music, the rated output power of many receivers/amplifiers is often reached when the Volume Control is between the "11 and 1 o'clock" settings (with bass/treble and loudness controls not used - otherwise rated power may be reached at even lower Volume Control settings).

Remember, all amplifiers produce distortion when operated beyond their rated output power. The resulting distortion will damage all speakers! Exercise caution! If you listen at loud levels, be careful to listen for the point of audible distortion - if the speakers begin to sound distressed turn the Volume Control down or your speakers and/or amplifier(s) will be damaged! This type of damage constitutes abuse and is not covered by the warranty. If louder volumes are desired obtain a more powerful amplifier.

There is a limit!
Although more powerful amplifiers are safer, there is a point at which you could have more power than the speaker can handle. At that point you will overpower the speaker and damage it. Exercise caution! At loud levels do not increase bass/treble controls from zero and ensure that loudness/contour/bass EQ buttons are off (otherwise rated output power will be reached at lower volume control settings). If you listen at loud levels, watch for excessive visible cone excursion (grille movement) from the woofer - then turn the Volume Control down.

The Right Amount of Power
A power-range rating is given as a guide to indicate the approximate minimum and maximum power input of your Paradigm Reference speakers. Amplifiers that exceed your speaker's power-range rating are recommended. Their greater power reserves provide better sound. However, exercise caution! Use the speakers within their power-range rating to prevent damage (keep listening levels below the point of excessive woofer cone excursion).

(Emphasis in last paragraph is mine).

By the way, DLPKid, which amplifier do you have (couldn't find your mention of it)? I'm thinking about getting a pro amp with something like 400W/channel for my 100s (that I just upgraded to).
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post #820 of 30468 Old 12-28-2005, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

The 15-200W listed for the speakers (and this goes for all of Paradigm's listings in this column) is not a recommended amplifier power range. It is the input range that the speakers can handle without damaging them.

Paradigm actually recommends (in an ideal world) running an amplifier with plenty more power than the maximum range of the speaker, to allow for headroom. From their manual... (see last paragraph for the quote I'm referencing.. I'm just putting it all here for everyone's reference)


(Emphasis in last paragraph is mine).

By the way, DLPKid, which amplifier do you have (couldn't find your mention of it)? I'm thinking about getting a pro amp with something like 400W/channel for my 100s (that I just upgraded to).

I'm driving my 100s, CC570 and ADPs with a 5-channel Parasound Halo A51 on its own dedicated 20 amp circuit.
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post #821 of 30468 Old 12-28-2005, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DLPKID View Post

I'm driving my 100s, CC570 and ADPs with a 5-channel Parasound Halo A51 on its own dedicated 20 amp circuit.


That should really sound good!! 250w x 5
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post #822 of 30468 Old 12-29-2005, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antman27 View Post

Do you foks think if I add an amp to my 40's & using my denon 3805 as a preamp I would notice a major diffrence ?
Alos has anyone honstly noticed inprovement from speaker cables /I now use SJ power cord!


I think there is more of a difference between using short and long lengths, of the same cable. If you can get that separate amp closer to your 40s, instead of using a long length of speaker wire from the Denon, you should have better control of the bass.
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post #823 of 30468 Old 12-30-2005, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DLPKID View Post

Fair enough. Your point it taken.

So....I'll ask you this - are all the folks here that are powering anything in the Studio lineup (besides the 100s) with anything more than a receiver wasting their money??? Maybe I should ask the poster with the 40s that made a comment a few posts earlier that his 40s benefited a good deal from an external amp.

I acknowledge that I do not have first hand knowledge about how the 60s respond to external amplification (I do the 100s), but here's a comment made by Miltimj, who does, on another thread.

"I have Studio 60s as well and love them. Note that they sound significantly better with a separate amplifier (apparently moreso than similar speakers), and since you're planning that into the system, they make a very good fit."
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post #824 of 30468 Old 12-30-2005, 10:09 AM
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OK, I have heard from several of you that the AV receiver Denon 3806 (w/ 120 wpc/RMS) will not "do justice" especially to the Studio 100's, and maybe even not do justice to the Studio 60's. OK, so now I may go down a new road (for me) of a separate amplifier that was noted. I am pretty doggone good on VIDEO sources and products, but audio, not so much and separates are really a NEW world for me. Will a few of you please recommend something in a separate amplification, really decent but not outlandishly expensive for a 5.1 system of Studio 100 (L/R) w/ cc470 (cc 570 may not fit), + (two) Studio 20's as rears (do not have room shape configuration for 7.1). Again, the room is rectangle of about 14X22, w/ standard 8' ceiling and average furniture + carpeting.

Thanks again for all the great advice.
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post #825 of 30468 Old 12-30-2005, 10:15 AM
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What about a separate stereo/2-channel amp' for the front speakers while using the Denon for the rest of the surround system? Has anyone tried that? What are the advantages/disadvantages?
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post #826 of 30468 Old 12-30-2005, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

What about a separate stereo/2-channel amp' for the front speakers while using the Denon for the rest of the surround system? Has anyone tried that? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

I think this would be a great starting point. Having a nice 2 channel amp handle your mains will free up your Receiver to more easily handle the Center and Surrounds. The additional reserves should help with dialogue from your CC as well.

You will have to recalibrate your system to reference levels again to take into account the amplifier driving the mains. You'd basically use the FL & FR pre-outs on your receiver to your external amp and then have your mains hooked to the amp.

I do think you should bring an amp home from your dealer, mate it to your system and THEN make your final decision. The last thing you want to do is drop a decent chunk of change, come home and then find that the amp isn't doing what you expected it to do. I added a pretty robust amp to a hungry set of speakers, and I feel my setup benefited greatly from it. That being said, I cannot in good conscience tell someone to go run out and buy an amp and then expect the same benefit that I received....its just not possible for me to make such blanket statement as there simple are too many variables (speaker type, amp type, amp power, line voltage etc. etc). I do honestly think that the 60s can benefit from amplification (based on my receiver only audition of them), but you need to make that final decision yourself.
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post #827 of 30468 Old 12-30-2005, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post

Will a few of you please recommend something in a separate amplification, really decent but not outlandishly expensive for a 5.1 system of Studio 100 (L/R) w/ cc470 (cc 570 may not fit), + (two) Studio 20's as rears (do not have room shape configuration for 7.1).

Gosh....thats a tough one. There is just simply so much out there and a lot that will be driven by your budget.

I bought my amp (Parasound Halo A51) off of Audiogon for about 25% of retail. Its being driven by my Yammy 4600, acting as a pre-pro. The risk of buying it "lightly used" as opposed to new is that I have no warranty. So far its been great, but use caution when buying such expensive gear without a safety net (warranty).

I also looked at the Anthem MCA series, which I could have purchased new (with warranty) for the same money as the Halo used. In the end, I was happy with my decision to go with the Halo (although I do think Anthem's MCA series amps are really nice).

I've seen threads from folks that have had great things to say about their Outlaw gear, which coincidently is about 50% of the cost of the Halo gear.

All I can say is find a dealer that will let you take stuff home and listen to it in your own environment. Had my dealer not let me take the Studios home, I probably would not have purchased them.

PS: Parasound's New Classic amps (5250 & 2250, THX Ultra2) are superb pieces for the money. The new classic 7100 pre-pro is also supposed to be really good value for $. Bryston also receives rave reviews on most forums....but you have to pay to play. For me, the Halo was the next best thing to a Bryston or Anthem Statement in my budget range.
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post #828 of 30468 Old 12-30-2005, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

What about a separate stereo/2-channel amp' for the front speakers while using the Denon for the rest of the surround system? Has anyone tried that? What are the advantages/disadvantages?

DLPKID has great info in his two posts. In home demo's are key to making the right choice.

Check out Anthem, Rotel, Parasound, and Bryston. Let your ears and budget be your guide. I'm sure there are other good ones out there but these are the ones I've listened to and liked.

JohnG
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post #829 of 30468 Old 12-30-2005, 07:03 PM
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BTW, I just noted that this Paradigm topic seems to lead the Speakers section of Audio by a HUGE margin. Thank you all for your advice on the Studio 60/100 and its support by different amplification. A lot to think about and research. This response just proves how great AVS Forum and its "family" is for "tech-support." Thanks again.
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post #830 of 30468 Old 12-30-2005, 09:35 PM
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I believe the question of external amplification benefiting any sound system let alone Studio 40/60/100's is dependent on room configuration, the quality and power of your existing receiver and of course, how much of a fanatic you are.

My room is not perfect but fairly well laid out and I think that because I had a receiver that had fairly robust amplifiers and had enough headroom, my demos with amps did not give me cause to break out the wallet. Of course that has all changed now and yes, I would like to jump on the bandwagon and will be purchasing a seperate amplifier for my new system somewhere in the near future. More than likely an MCA30 for the front 3.
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post #831 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 04:47 AM
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Hey all, I started a new post yesterday but got no responses so I thought this might be a more appropriate place to try. I am thinking about getting a very basic surround setup ideally using paradigms. I am leaning toward a pair of titans in the front, a pair of atoms flr surrounds and the matching center (CC-170 or something like that). I know the titans won't be the best for fronts but I was wondering if this will let me get by for a little bit until I can upgrade my fronts and move the titans to the surrounds and atoms to the rears? Also, I probably only have enough for either a center or a sub--but not both since I will probably go with 4 stands for the bookshelves. Which one is better to start with until I can get the other in about a month or so. I will be driving this with an older HK AVR100--basic but should get the job done. Does this sound feasible? Basically, I am trying to go with a good brand but will be forced to go entrylevel within that brand. Or, I could go with a lesser known brand/lesser quality one but go middle road on their lines. My father has had paradigms for years and I absolutely love them so it would be nice to be able to stick with them. I am going to a paradigm dealer today (in a few hours) so any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
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post #832 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 07:54 AM
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Hello all,My40's are on a solid wood pice of funiture that is 67 " long and 20" high .The speakers now sit right on the wood shelf with a 50" TV in the middle of them.
Will speaker spikes help inprove my speakers if I get them up off the wood shelf OR should I look to put rubber adsorbor feet under the speakers ?
I do not want to raise them much more than one inch or the tweeters will be to high than ,will spikes destroy the funiture that they are on now.
Can anyone point me in the right direction.
WILL RAISING THEM OF OF THE FUNITURE INPROVE OVERALL SOUND ?
Thanks ~
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post #833 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by antman27 View Post

Hello all,My40's are on a solid wood pice of funiture that is 67 " long and 20" high .The speakers now sit right on the wood shelf with a 50" TV in the middle of them.
Will speaker spikes help inprove my speakers if I get them up off the wood shelf OR should I look to put rubber adsorbor feet under the speakers ?
I do not want to raise them much more than one inch or the tweeters will be to high than ,will spikes destroy the funiture that they are on now.
Can anyone point me in the right direction.
WILL RAISING THEM OF OF THE FUNITURE INPROVE OVERALL SOUND ?
Thanks ~

If you can feel the furniture vibrating when the 40s are playing then raising them may help the sound. You'll have to decide if spikes or pads sound better. Yes the spikes can damage the furniture is you move the speakers around a lot.

JohnG
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post #834 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antman27 View Post

Hello all,My40's are on a solid wood pice of funiture that is 67 " long and 20" high .The speakers now sit right on the wood shelf with a 50" TV in the middle of them.
Will speaker spikes help inprove my speakers if I get them up off the wood shelf OR should I look to put rubber adsorbor feet under the speakers ?
I do not want to raise them much more than one inch or the tweeters will be to high than ,will spikes destroy the funiture that they are on now.
Can anyone point me in the right direction.
WILL RAISING THEM OF OF THE FUNITURE INPROVE OVERALL SOUND ?
Thanks ~

Spikes will "couple" your speaker cabinets to the furniture, rubber will "isolate' them from the furniture. What is best is what sounds the best to you.

I "couple" my Studio 20s to their stands by bolting into the threaded inserts of the Paradigm cabinet. But "decouple" or isolate the stands from my carpet covered concrete floor, by using "unhappy balls", placed in garden hose brass caps, with are attached to the threaded inserts on the bottom of my DIY stands. (Originally had Parts Express "cone" spikes there.

The unhappy balls are amazing; they feel like regular rubber balls. But if you drop them to any solid floor surface, from a decent height, they will just flop on the floor with little or no bounce!

Google happy/unhappy balls, check out Arbor Scientific's site. They will sell you the unhappy ones seperately.


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post #835 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 03:48 PM
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I have to admit that I have not read *all* of the post in this amazing thread, so my apologizes if this has been covered.

Yesterday I went to my local western MI dealer and demoed the studio 60s and studio 20s. I had the salesman cross them both over at 80 Hz and compared the two without a subwoofer (or at least that was my request, I have no way of verifying that this took place, had to take his word for it).

I was hoping that the two speakers would sound nearly identical as I was under the impression that the major difference between the speakers in this line is the bass extension of each.

Unfortunately this was not the case. To my non-audiophile ears the 60s sounded more "rich". That is, I felt I could hear the bass (or is it midbass?) missing from the 20s as I switched between the two.

Originally my plan was to get the 20s up front and ADP-470s as rears to match with the SVS PB12-Plus subwoofer I already owned (currently setup with the Pio 1014 and Logitech 5.1 speakers). I thought buying the 60s for up front and crossing them over at 80 Hz would be wasting speaker, now I am not so sure.

My listening preferences will most likely be 80/20 movies/music(192 kbps mp3s).

Any one else have a similar experience? Comments? Suggestions?

Money is an object, so if I can get away with the 20s up front instead of the 60s, I will, but don't want to be left wondering if the 60s would sound significantly better in my setup (and don't believe I have the option of an in home demo. even if I did, the room where they will eventually end up has only had the drywall hung recently.)

Thanks!
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post #836 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spartanmd View Post


Unfortunately this was not the case. To my non-audiophile ears the 60s sounded more "rich". That is, I felt I could hear the bass (or is it midbass?) missing from the 20s as I switched between the two.

Originally my plan was to get the 20s up front and ADP-470s as rears to match with the SVS PB12-Plus subwoofer I already owned (currently setup with the Pio 1014 and Logitech 5.1 speakers). I thought buying the 60s for up front and crossing them over at 80 Hz would be wasting speaker, now I am not so sure.



Thanks!


Hi Spartan

Have you tried the Studio 40s ? maybe that would be a good compromise.

I too had the same notion and assumptions as you did that when two identical speakers are crossed @ certain frequency and dedicating the bass to the sub that the speakers would sound similar. I guess it doesnt.

Thanks for the info as well,
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post #837 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferdinand77 View Post


Have you tried the Studio 40s ? maybe that would be a good compromise.


I considered this, but (1) The dealer I went to only had Signature S4s to demo and (2) for the price of the 40s with stands, I think I would prefer the 60s for not that much more money.

Ideally I am looking to buy as many high quality speakers as I can in order to get me closer to 7.1 surround sound with $2300 left to spend this year, 2006 (and only the .1 purchased). My options:

1 pair 60s & ADP-470s = [4.1 surround sound]
2 pair 20s & ADP-470s = [6.1 surround sound]

Room will be dedicated dlp front projector theater ~13'x~25' with seating distance about 12' away. With this setup I believe I can get away with a phantom center with the 60s or go with 3 Studio 20s across the front with option #2 above.
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post #838 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by spartanmd View Post

I considered this, but (1) The dealer I went to only had Signature S4s to demo and (2) for the price of the 40s with stands, I think I would prefer the 60s for not that much more money.

Ideally I am looking to buy as many high quality speakers as I can in order to get me closer to 7.1 surround sound with $2300 left to spend this year, 2006 (and only the .1 purchased). My options:

1 pair 60s & ADP-470s = [4.1 surround sound]
2 pair 20s & ADP-470s = [6.1 surround sound]

Room will be dedicated dlp front projector theater ~13'x~25' with seating distance about 12' away. With this setup I believe I can get away with a phantom center with the 60s or go with 3 Studio 20s across the front with option #2 above.

Those are good choices but a mix of compromise and budget will always be a factor. Also consider that the Studio series is always better when driven by separate amplifiers compared to the built in amps of receivers unless its the higher models.

In a few weeks time i will also have to decide between a Studio 100 and studio 60s. Centers are for sure the CC570, rears are either the Studio 20s or ADP470.

Aint this hobby fun!
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post #839 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 07:19 PM
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Quote:


Ideally I am looking to buy as many high quality speakers as I can in order to get me closer to 7.1 surround sound with $2300 left to spend this year, 2006 (and only the .1 purchased). My options:

1 pair 60s & ADP-470s = [4.1 surround sound]
2 pair 20s & ADP-470s = [6.1 surround sound]

If you want High Quality, I'd save a little more money and do 3 60's as LCR or 2 60's and a 570. Or, if you have room 2 100's and a 570 with 470's for surrounds. I wouldn't do the phantom center thing. I'd power every thing with separates from Rotel. You, do any of the same 3 speakers as LCR and your sound stage will be awesome, you'll never look back.

Why a SVS and not a Servo 15?

Redhouse
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post #840 of 30468 Old 12-31-2005, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Redhouse View Post

I'd save a little more money and do 3 60's as LCR or 2 60's and a 570. Or, 2 100's and a 570 with 470's for surrounds.

LOL! Ah, the perpetual always something better to upgrade to. To be honest a pair of 60s with 470's for surrounds is a little outside my budget to begin with. If I have to keep "saving a little more money", I won't be able to buy any speakers until 2007. Additionally, I have many other hobbies that require my wallet's attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhouse View Post

I'd power every thing with separates from Rotel.

Eventually I plan on adding a pro-amp to the mix to compliment my Pioneer 1014 as my equipment is housed behind the front wall of the projector's screen, so fan noise will not be an issue. This will not take place for a very long time however (and possibly never if I decide to go with Studio 20's all around).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhouse View Post

I wouldn't do the phantom center thing. You, do any of the same 3 speakers as LCR and your sound stage will be awesome, you'll never look back.

I don't think a phantom center will be a problem. The room is relatively narrow (13') and the main speakers with be equally spaced apart on either side of the screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhouse View Post

Why a SVS and not a Servo 15?

No particular reason. Based on favorable reviews of SVS here I decided to give it a try and like the results. Just the other day, a friend's 2 year old started to cry when the windows starting shaking and the floor was rumbling under his feet during the opening of Ice Age. Never knew what "tight bass" meant until I fired this bad boy up (and I am sure there are plenty of other subwoofers out there that blow away my PB12-Plus, but I am happy to be content in my ignorance.)


Enough rambling on my part...

I am still curious to get other's opinions on my first post: The quality of Studio 60s versus Studio 20s both x-over at 80 Hz without the use of a subwoofer...
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