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post #901 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkhome View Post

What improvements/ compromises are you getting between the 60s and 100s? I feel the midrange / bass could be improved on the 20s, hoping that the sealed design of the 570 will better them.

The 60s would be the same height as my 20s are now on my DIY stands (We have one of those sink into leather couches). The only advantage I could see getting the 100s would be if the midrange /bass is more detailed and balanced. Is this the case? Also, is the horizontal dispersion about the same? Because of windows on each side of my RPTV, I have to space the L/Rs 8' apart, which is pushing it for the little Studio 20s. Problem is, this also puts one of them as close as 20" to one side wall. That doesn't seem to effect the 20s, but maybe using something as big as the 100s could cause boomier bass?

I liked the imaging of the 100s with the 570; a bit better than the 60s. The 60s are really better matched with the 470.

I notice the bass being a slight bit better, but I really use my sub for that mostly anyway. With an external amplifier it will get even better as well, but I haven't invested in that yet.

One other thing I like about the 100s is that it's not ported, since I'm likely going to put them in their own built in frame when I build my dedicated HT in the future. I still need to figure out how the porting on the 570 will be affected by that same scenario.
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post #902 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 08:25 PM
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wouldn't you want to have the screen a bit lower, not higher?

Why?

The lower I would go with the pull down screen, the lower the center channel under it would be, right?..

I dont have a stand for the TV, yet.. I may have to custom build it.. In fact I'm sure of it..

It'll have to be sloid, true..

ah, missed that bit in the signiture..
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post #903 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 08:34 PM
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My screen is 30" high (with the center immediately below it) and I wish it were lower.. Just something non-cinematic about having to look so high for the picture. Angling the center channel does a decent job of adjusting for the less-than-ideal environment.

Of course, this is all assuming you move your TV to the corner.. I'll post a picture of my setup to give you a better idea of how it looks, when I get the chance..
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post #904 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

IMO, the 60s are really better matched with the 470.

Fixed.
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post #905 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 09:09 PM
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Just something non-cinematic about having to look so high for the picture.

Really?

I would have said the opposite was true..

Here's my set-up, currently.. The center is way too low, and not angled at all..



The pull downscreen comes down to about halfway down the length of the TV..

I won't be doing a built in for the new place, I don't think..

I want the fronts free standing..
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post #906 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkhome View Post

Yesterday I ordered a CC570, to go with the 20s I bought last summer. My dealer also has the same trade up policy, in which I get almost 100% for the 20s if I bought 60s, or 100% for 100s.

I also plan on installing an IB sub, the head guru (Thomas) over at the "Cult", suggested to me that one's L/R speakers should go down an octave below the sub' X-over point. So set at 80 Hz, the mains should go down into the 40 Hz range, in which both the 60s and 100s should work.

What improvements/ compromises are you getting between the 60s and 100s? I feel the midrange / bass could be improved on the 20s, hoping that the sealed design of the 570 will better them.

The 60s would be the same height as my 20s are now on my DIY stands (We have one of those sink into leather couches). The only advantage I could see getting the 100s would be if the midrange /bass is more detailed and balanced. Is this the case? Also, is the horizontal dispersion about the same? Because of windows on each side of my RPTV, I have to space the L/Rs 8' apart, which is pushing it for the little Studio 20s. Problem is, this also puts one of them as close as 20" to one side wall. That doesn't seem to effect the 20s, but maybe using something as big as the 100s could cause boomier bass?

Just stumbled across this thread and I should be able to help with your questions.

All of the Paradigm speakers within a given line (Studio, Performance, etc.) are "voiced" to sound the same, the main difference will be low frequency extension and overall output (loudness) capability as you go up the line. Any of the speakers within the studio line will work well together.

About the 570 center. The 570 is much better engineered than the 470 when it comes to off-axis frequency response. While the 470 and 570 will sound very similar when you are sitting right in the sweet spot, the sound will remain more consistent with the 570 when you sit to the left or right, all because of the additional 4" midrange driver in the 570.

Again the main difference between the 60's and the 100's is that the 100's will have more extended bass and they will play louder. The 100's might also have a slight edge in the midrange if the two speakers are being played full range at highish volumes. If you plan to cross the 60's over to a sub, the advantages of the 100's virtually disappear. However, either speaker will be a step up from the 20's. The additional drivers in the 60's and 100's results in a more effortless sound. The 20's are really best suited for low to medium volumes and small rooms.

Now for the most important part. Yes, I believe there is a very good chance that you will run into trouble with the 100's being close to a side wall, but not because of the horizontal dispersion. Bass is essentially omni-directional, but the proximity of the bass drivers in the 100 to any wall will reinforce certain bass frequencies. I don't want to get overly technical, but the bottom line is that you should audition the 100's in your home before committing to them. If you can't do that, go for the 60's.

The truth is that I learned the hard way. I used to own the Paradigm Signature S8's (essentially a high-end 100) but had to sell them and get the smaller S4's because I had a set-up constraint very similar to yours. I get better sound with the smaller S4's paired with a sub than I did the S8's, all because of my room.
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post #907 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

One other thing I like about the 100s is that it's not ported, since I'm likely going to put them in their own built in frame when I build my dedicated HT in the future. I still need to figure out how the porting on the 570 will be affected by that same scenario.

The 100s have front ports. I assume you meant they are not rear-ported. My 570 sounds like it has more bass than the 470 that it replaced, and I'm betting at least part of that has to do with the rear ports and their proximity to the rear wall. Still not sure if I like that added bass or not.
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post #908 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 09:42 PM
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Doug, given your built-in situation, I'm not sure you have too many options. Are you considering tearing some of that apart? At the least you could angle the center, though.

wuttuptae, yes I meant that they're not rear-ported. Thanks for the correction.
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post #909 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 09:46 PM
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I'm building a new house..

I can do whatever I want..

This is from my current one..
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post #910 of 30405 Old 01-19-2006, 09:50 PM
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Ahh.. I see. Well, it's all up to personal preference, of course. If you have another room that you want a TV in, you could put it there, or you could put it behind the screen as you have now, or in the corner as I have mine now. In my next house, I'll be choosing the second option (in a separate room).
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post #911 of 30405 Old 01-20-2006, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

I liked the imaging of the 100s with the 570; a bit better than the 60s. The 60s are really better matched with the 470.

I notice the bass being a slight bit better, but I really use my sub for that mostly anyway. With an external amplifier it will get even better as well, but I haven't invested in that yet.


Thanks. Right now I'm running everything off the amps in my Rotel 1055 receiver, but if I do go with the larger Paradigms, I have an Aragon 8008BB that should work.

I wish Aragon made a reasonably priced mono amp that I could use for the center, guess I'll have to go used.
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post #912 of 30405 Old 01-20-2006, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Just stumbled across this thread and I should be able to help with your questions.

About the 570 center. The 570 is much better engineered than the 470 when it comes to off-axis frequency response. While the 470 and 570 will sound very similar when you are sitting right in the sweet spot, the sound will remain more consistent with the 570 when you sit to the left or right, all because of the additional 4" midrange driver in the 570.

That's good to hear, my L shaped couch has a fairly off axis seating spot at one end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Now for the most important part. Yes, I believe there is a very good chance that you will run into trouble with the 100's being close to a side wall, but not because of the horizontal dispersion. Bass is essentially omni-directional, but the proximity of the bass drivers in the 100 to any wall will reinforce certain bass frequencies. I don't want to get overly technical, but the bottom line is that you should audition the 100's in your home before committing to them. If you can't do that, go for the 60's.

Actually my dealer keeps a pair of demo 100s in stock, but not the 60s. So I will be able to take them home for a weekend to check out. Thanks for your help.
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post #913 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 11:39 AM
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I'm going to be using the Studio 60's with the CC-470 for the center channel in my home theater. I was wondering if the CC-570 is that much better than the CC-470. Is the CC-570 worth the money?

Let me know what you think.
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post #914 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J View Post

I'm going to be using the Studio 60's with the CC-470 for the center channel in my home theater. I was wondering if the CC-570 is that much better than the CC-470. Is the CC-570 worth the money?

Let me know what you think.


In a word, yes. But see post #906 in this thread for a more detailed explanation.

Cheers.
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post #915 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 12:08 PM
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For anyone who has an entire Paradigm 7.2 setup (or close to it), will the Yamaha RX-V2600 receiver drive all of these speakers?

I'm planning on using the Studio 60's for the L/R, CC-470 (maybe CC-570) for the center, 4 ADP-470's for the surrounds and 2 Seismic 12's for the subs. Can the Yamaha handle it?

Let me hear what you think.
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post #916 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 12:23 PM
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Woohoo!

Sounds like a sweet set-up!

Yamaha makes an excellent reciever, and the one you have in mind is no exception, and at 130W per channel will drive your speakers with no problem..

Though not having any experience with running 2 subs, I can't say for certain wether this reciever is set up to do this..

I'm sure it is, but can't say for sure..
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post #917 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J View Post

I'm going to be using the Studio 60's with the CC-470 for the center channel in my home theater. I was wondering if the CC-570 is that much better than the CC-470. Is the CC-570 worth the money?

Let me know what you think.

If your budget allows, get the 570. If not the 470 is no slouch.

JohnG
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post #918 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 12:50 PM
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I think I'll stick with my old 450 (bought it 8 years ago)..

I don't care if those to the either side of me get as good a listening experience as I do..

I wonder though, is there any difference between the 450 and the 470?
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post #919 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J View Post

I'm going to be using the Studio 60's with the CC-470 for the center channel in my home theater. I was wondering if the CC-570 is that much better than the CC-470. Is the CC-570 worth the money?

Let me know what you think.


I have the studio 60 as well and was debating between the cc470 and the cc570-- after auditioning both and talking to few guys on this forum, i went with the 570 and i wasnt disappointed at all!!! The 570 is awesome!
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post #920 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 03:33 PM
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i went with the 570 and i wasnt disappointed at all!!! The 570 is awesome!

In what respect did you find they differ, apart from wider soundstage (better for those seated to either side of center)?
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post #921 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferdinand77 View Post

I have the studio 60 as well and was debating between the cc470 and the cc570-- after auditioning both and talking to few guys on this forum, i went with the 570 and i wasnt disappointed at all!!! The 570 is awesome!

ditto.

JohnG
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post #922 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave J View Post

For anyone who has an entire Paradigm 7.2 setup (or close to it), will the Yamaha RX-V2600 receiver drive all of these speakers?

I'm planning on using the Studio 60's for the L/R, CC-470 (maybe CC-570) for the center, 4 ADP-470's for the surrounds and 2 Seismic 12's for the subs. Can the Yamaha handle it?

Let me hear what you think.

The subs are out of the equation, since you'll just run a splitter off of the line level output of your receiver. You shouldn't have a problem with that setup, especially since the surrounds won't tax the receiver very much in the first place.

Granted, a dedicated amp for the front two or three channels would help even more, but the system will sound awesome without as well.
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post #923 of 30405 Old 01-21-2006, 11:27 PM
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I also started out with a 470 as I heard/read that it was matched to the 60's.
I wasn't too happy with it so my dealer let me try the 570 and the difference I noted was a little more clarity in the mid-range. I think having the seperate smaller mid-driver crossed over in the mid-range gives a cleaner sound than having two big 7 inchers trying to pull a double duty thing. In fact I would love to see how the 60's would sound if they added an extra 4 or 5 incher "mid" in them.
Maybe V.4?

I do have a smaller room and I was coming from using a CC-370 which to me sounded cleaner than the 470. I think the more capable 470/570's are reacting to my room alot more, so not everyone will share this view.
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post #924 of 30405 Old 01-22-2006, 04:21 AM
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[quote=LEVESQUE]Strangely, I came to the exact opposite conclusion after trying both series in my room for 2 weeks. My dynamic range is so great in there that the differences were clearly audible, particularly on soft parts. At 115 db on a DD track, it's not major (like any speakers would be ), but with a good CD or multi-ch recording, the differences were well worth the price to my ears.


This was my experience also. The Sigs complete lack of coloration, coupled with their excellent soundstaging and detail, makes listening to them, a lifelike experience that I've had with no other speakers - and I've been listening to speakers seriously for over 30 years.
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post #925 of 30405 Old 01-22-2006, 04:47 AM
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2 questions:

1) Where exactly should the front 2 speakers be pointing (straight ahead, at the main seating position, just infront of the main seating position, etc.). Speakers are 8' apart and the main seating position is 14 feet back.

2) I am going to have a cabinet built for a new plasma tv - the new cabinet will be about 55" wide and 25" deep. Anyway - due to room limitations, i have a problem with the placement of the center speaker - the builder suggested that the center speaker be placed inside the cabinet vertically. What do you think about this idea?

equipment - denon 4806 receiver, fronts: paradigm studio monitor 40s; center: cc570; rears 470s; subs: (2) infinity sw-12s

Any ideas would be appreciated.
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post #926 of 30405 Old 01-22-2006, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikeb View Post

2 questions:
1) Where exactly should the front 2 speakers be pointing (straight ahead, at the main seating position, just infront of the main seating position, etc.). Speakers are 8' apart and the main seating position is 14 feet back.

There should be a picture in your manual that shows the proper angles -- basically it says to make them intersect behind the main listening position (kinda aiming them at the shoulders of the listener) and the distance between the speakers should be about 3/4 the distance to main listening position.
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post #927 of 30405 Old 01-22-2006, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuttuptae View Post

There should be a picture in your manual that shows the proper angles -- basically it says to make them intersect behind the main listening position (kinda aiming them at the shoulders of the listener) and the distance between the speakers should be about 3/4 the distance to main listening position.

Thank you, due to room limitations, i can only spread the fronts out by 8', that is why i was asking that question.
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post #928 of 30405 Old 01-22-2006, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikeb View Post

2 questions:

2) I am going to have a cabinet built for a new plasma tv - the new cabinet will be about 55" wide and 25" deep. Anyway - due to room limitations, i have a problem with the placement of the center speaker - the builder suggested that the center speaker be placed inside the cabinet vertically. What do you think about this idea?

equipment - denon 4806 receiver, fronts: paradigm studio monitor 40s; center: cc570; rears 470s; subs: (2) infinity sw-12s

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Really, the CC570 is not meant to be used vertically as you will lose the broad horitzontal dispertion characterstics of the speaker that way. However, you may find that is sounds just fine. Give it a try. If that doesn't work out, us a single studio 40 as a center.
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post #929 of 30405 Old 01-22-2006, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Really, the CC570 is not meant to be used vertically as you will lose the broad horitzontal dispertion characterstics of the speaker that way. However, you may find that is sounds just find. Give it a try. If that doesn't work out, us a single studio 40 as a center.

thank you:

the new cabinet is going to be 36" high. Then, the plasma will be about 35" high (with the stand). I basically have my choice - build a stand behind the plasma (about 36" high) on the back side of the cabinet top for the horizontal center speaker or put the center speaker or a studio 40 (your good idea) in the cabinet below the tv. Its a tough call.
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post #930 of 30405 Old 01-22-2006, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikeb View Post

thank you:

the new cabinet is going to be 36" high. Then, the plasma will be about 35" high (with the stand). I basically have my choice - build a stand behind the plasma (about 36" high) on the back side of the cabinet top for the horizontal center speaker or put the center speaker or a studio 40 (your good idea) in the cabinet below the tv. Its a tough call.

I understand your predicament. Most of us have compromises to make. Ultimately you want the center to be the same height at the L/Rs, but if that isn't possible, (slightly) higher is typically better than lower. So how far off the floor would the center speaker be in each of your options?
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