Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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post #1441 of 30660 Old 06-09-2006, 04:08 PM
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Hey there guys,

I've been looking into a Paradigm setup for my home. I'm fairly new to the audio realm of the home theater so bear with me here.

I set my price range for a home theater in the range of $2000, and went from there. What I came up with is the following setup:

Paradigm Performance Series:
http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Site...rformance.html

L/R Front x 2:Titan
L/R Rear x 2: Titan
Center x 1: CC-270

The subwoofer comes from their PDR series:
http://www.paradigm.com/Website/Site...DR_Series.html

Subwoofer x 1: PDR-10

And finally, from Yamaha's RX-V Series

Receiver x 1: Yamaha RX-V 2600


All of this will be connected to my Pioneer 1130-HD 50" Plasma. The room size is approx ~250 sq ft. In addition, do you guys think the rears will be fine with the Titan's or should I go with Surround speakers for the rear? I'm hoping this a good setup, as I'm not a audiophile and don't know too much. What would you guys go with assuming you had a $2K budget?

In addition, when I had this setup demoed for me, they weren't really cranked up that high; this setup thought should sound fairly good though for my size room right?

Thanks!
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post #1442 of 30660 Old 06-09-2006, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasalle View Post

Tim, thanks for you quick response. Your point about the DD-15's blending better is well taken. I had a similar experience with my great room system. The Mythos 1's and 8 have 5 1/4 " drivers. Two DD-12's sounded tighter than a DD-15 there as well. I was concerned about the overall size of the multi-purpose room. The theater is in a 14' x 20' corner, but the over all room is very open, next to the theater is a 13'x 25' bar area and behind the theater is a 35'x 20' Pool and game room, all very open (one support pillar ). I thought I might need the DD-18's (and the C5) to get bass weight and dynamics in that much open space.

Also I'm interested in your thoughts on my Denon question---
" I noticed you have the top end Denon driving your system. I have the 4806 driving my great room system and have been very impressed with the updated Auddssey room correlation processing. I was considering another 4806 with an Anthem 3 way amp to drive the front three speakers. I read earlier you were considering going to separates and was curious if you had tried a separate amp with your Denon and were not impressed with the results".

Thanks again, Brad

Hello again -

Well, knowing now that you are dealing with an open "great room", that could make you a candidate for the larger C5 and the larger DD sub. I think it still depends on how close you plan to sit to the speakers. The S4's and C3 could still do the job. The sub, however, is theoreticaly going to have to fill that entire room with sound, so you may need the DD18. Honestly, I got rid of the DD18 while it was still fairly new, so I may not have had it dialed in correctly. The DD18 is huge and it just physically dominated the room. The Stereophile reviewer had no complaints with the blend of his B&W 805 stand mounts and the DD18. I guess there is only one way to find out and that is an in-home audition. After all, this conversation is just a starting point.

About my receiver. I did own the NAD Master series seperates for about a week but two things kept me from sticking with those seperates. The prepro was clunky to use and they didn't sound quality was noticabley better than my Denon. It was quite surprising really. I expected much more from an amp that alone weighed 40 pounds more than the Denon. With that said, I'm waiting to see what Rotel is going to do with their replacement for the 1098 prepro. It is supposed to have room correction, HDMI inputs and video scaling. Now that I think about it, you can get all of that with the 4806. I may still go that way (with the 4806), but I want to explore my options and see if seperates give me an improvement in sound. I love this hobby and I'm willing to pay a premium for even slightly better sound.

- Tim


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post #1443 of 30660 Old 06-09-2006, 09:22 PM
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mpr86 -

While this is a Paradigm thread, and I'm a Paradigm supporter, I would recommend checking out a few other companies. My recommendations would be the Infinity Primus line, Aperion Audio, Energy, Boston Acoustics, Mirage OmniSat and KEF (if you can find them). They all make very good performing, valued priced gear. Only you can determine which is best for you-- by listening to each. When you listen to them, bring music you know and like. This will help greatly in your decision making because you know what you expect that music to sound like. It also helps if you start with two speaker models using a single music track, switching between them until you have a winner. Then put the winner up against the next speaker and keep repeating until you have your choice.

Let me know if that helps, or if there is any other advice I may be able to offer.

Cheers,

- Tim

- Tim


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post #1444 of 30660 Old 06-09-2006, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr86 View Post

What would you guys go with assuming you had a $2K budget?

I agree with the other Tim (hifi)... Except I'd recommend checking out Ascends for price/performance at that budget level. They're internet direct, but they have a great return policy (if you even need it), and there are quite a few owners on the forum that would be happy to let you audition theirs.

-Tim

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post #1445 of 30660 Old 06-09-2006, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

I agree with the other Tim (hifi)... Except I'd recommend checking out Ascends for price/performance at that budget level. They're internet direct, but they have a great return policy (if you even need it), and there are quite a few owners on the forum that would be happy to let you audition theirs.

Hey Tim! Great call. I knew I was forgetting one.

- Tim


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post #1446 of 30660 Old 06-09-2006, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

I think it is irresponsible to make general claims they "must" be better than the 40's because they are bigger, have a dedicated midrange, etc.

I did not say they "must" be better. I was not suggesting bigger is automatically better. I think what sounds best to you is best for you. Whether its 6ft tall towers or tiny cubes from Bose. Well, maybe not the Bose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Hmmm, well . .. my experience tells me the midrange doesn't suffer. (Yes, to some extent I am defending my purchase by responding to your comment, but it goes deeper than that.)

Maybe it is different with the Sigs. I did not audition them. I did audition 40s, 60s, and 100s when I was upgrading from Monitor 7s. I thought the 100s had a fuller, more powerful sound. I thought music was more detailed. I thought the dedicated highs, mids and bass of the 100s made a big difference over the others. I feel going from 100s to 40s is a downgrade. Just giving my opinion here. With that said, if someone loves the sound of 40s with a sub and it fits their room, then thats what they should buy.
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post #1447 of 30660 Old 06-09-2006, 11:43 PM
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^^^Cool. I wasn't trying to take you to task. I've just seen many well-meaning audio enthusiasts draw conclusions about sound quality that don't fully understand how easily you can sway the results one way or the other through differences in set-up or improper set up. The studio series use the same drivers throughout their range, just more or less of them and with diiferent crossover points. There's no doubt that the 100's would sound fuller than the 40's, they are full range and the 40's aren't. I'm confident that with carefully controlled set-up of 40's + sub vs 100's + sub, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference except in overall output.

- Tim


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post #1448 of 30660 Old 06-10-2006, 12:32 AM
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I couldn't have said it better, Tim. That's what I'm hoping for, so I can get more space behind the front wall for a huge sub enclosure. So I could actually say that going from the 100s to 40s improved my low end..

-Tim

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post #1449 of 30660 Old 06-10-2006, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

I couldn't have said it better, Tim. That's what I'm hoping for, so I can get more space behind the front wall for a huge sub enclosure. So I could actually say that going from the 100s to 40s improved my low end..

It's funny that you would say that, as that is exactly the reason I went with the S4's (and a smaller sub). My goal was to get a better (smoother in room response) low end. And as backwards as it sounds, trading the S8's out for the S4's was the right solution.

- Tim


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post #1450 of 30660 Old 06-10-2006, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow...who would have thought that this thread would have come this far As the originator of this thread about a year ago, I can see that there are many like me who have great enthusiasm for Paradigm speakers. To update, I currently still have my birdseye maple S2's, C3, and ADP's in the rear and will continue to do so indefinitely, or until I move and present a new audio canvas to color using cutting edge equipment. Currently, my room is small and only requires needs that the S2,C3, ADP combo can provide, and of course with the Velodyne sub. I've been extremely pleased to date, and mentioned previously my equipment included B&W Nautilus 805 series, HTM, and 805b's in the rear. Though B&W was spot-on with my Yamaha DSP A-1, with the new Arcam gear, the Paradigm's seem to bring out the best. Paired with the Paradigm's I use an Arcam AVR300, Arcam FMJ DV29 and an Arcam FMJ CD33 and to date couldn't have asked for more...for my size room that is! For me it was a great choice coming from being a long-time B&W owner to Paradigm, and this is credited to my dealer who showed me the way in spite of my bias towards B&W. I'm glad that this thread still has what appears to be a lot of life, and due in no small part to people like Tim (miltimj) deafgoose and others who continually stir Paradigm pool again and again. What else can I say except...onward, fellow Paradigm users, we're all on the same path, a path of better sound and continued search for perfection Thanks for contributing
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post #1451 of 30660 Old 06-14-2006, 05:19 AM
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Paging Kal Rubinson, or anyone else with a similar experience.

In your Stereophile review of the Studio 60v3s, you mention using Real Traps room treatment to help even out the bass response of the 60s. Can you elaborate in how many traps, placement, bass frequencies effected, etc.?

I have decided to trade my Studio 20v3s for a pair of 60s. The 20s in my 14 x 23 x 8 room were slightly boomy, until I got the positioning right. I expect the same problem with the 60s, but I may be more restricted due to the additional cabinet depth.

PS... And thank you wrg2 for starting such an informative thread!
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post #1452 of 30660 Old 06-14-2006, 08:24 AM
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What I used is specific to my room, not necessarily to the speakers. You should get some way to measure your room/system now that you have it set up. The options I recommend are Room EQ Wizard or ETF software for PC, both with associated hardware (mic and preamp).

Kal

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post #1453 of 30660 Old 06-14-2006, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

The options I recommend are Room EQ Wizard or ETF software for PC, both with associated hardware (mic and preamp).

Kal

I do have the EQ wizard, along with the Mobile pre USB and EC8000 mic, and plan on using it. My version is kinda old, (how many have there been now? )probably should download the newest.

Thanks, John
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post #1454 of 30660 Old 06-14-2006, 03:45 PM
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Im eyeing Titans for the front and Atoms for the rear, can you all help me with a receiver suggestion?

Potentials are Onkyo 504, Onk 603, H/K 230, Denon 1906, Panny XR57.

or any others in that general range. Thanks!

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post #1455 of 30660 Old 06-14-2006, 04:46 PM
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Hello all,
I am thinking about upgrading my surrounds -I now have Cinema V1
They are mounted kind of high ( about 7Ft ) on MB60s angled down pointing into the listening area.
My Sofa is against the back wall that the speakers are mounted to
Will Cinema 90 v.3 be noticable improvement ? I was thinking about Atoms BUT I am afraid that since I am against the wall already they will stick out far passed ear level . ADPs would not be a good choice against the back walls right ?
Thanks ~
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post #1456 of 30660 Old 06-14-2006, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antman27 View Post

Hello all,
I am thinking about upgrading my surrounds -I now have Cinema V1
They are mounted kind of high ( about 7Ft ) on MB60s angled down pointing into the listening area.
My Sofa is against the back wall that the speakers are mounted to
Will Cinema 90 v.3 be noticable improvement ? I was thinking about Atoms BUT I am afraid that since I am against the wall already they will stick out far passed ear level . ADPs would not be a good choice against the back walls right ?
Thanks ~

I can't comment on the sound quality difference between the different Cinema speakers, but I can say that I prefer the ADP bipolar surrounds on my back wall. They tend to call less attention to themselves when you are sitting that close and they spread the sound around nicely. I've got my couch about 2 feet out from the back wall and I've tried direct radiating speakers (normal speakers) back there but they tended to be distracting. Some like to really hear the sound coming from each rear speaker, but I prefer the envelopment that the ADPs provide. To each their own though and only you can decide which you like best.

- Tim


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post #1457 of 30660 Old 06-15-2006, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwz26 View Post

Im eyeing Titans for the front and Atoms for the rear, can you all help me with a receiver suggestion?

Potentials are Onkyo 504, Onk 603, H/K 230, Denon 1906, Panny XR57.

or any others in that general range. Thanks!

You can find the Onkyo TX-SR703 in the 500 range. I am using this reciever to drive Studio 100s and a CC-570 with no complaints.
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post #1458 of 30660 Old 06-15-2006, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 051473 View Post

You can find the Onkyo TX-SR703 in the 500 range. I am using this reciever to drive Studio 100s and a CC-570 with no complaints.

I have the exact same setup (except the 702), and likewise, I'm happy. I'll get external amps eventually, but it really does sound great the way it is. Just don't crank them at high SPLs.

-Tim

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post #1459 of 30660 Old 06-15-2006, 08:21 AM
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Hey Guys,
I am wondering what you guys paid for a pair of Studio 100 V3's. I am thinking af buying a used pair and want to gauge how good a price Im getting.
Would you guys buy used? I think I don't get the Paradigm warranty like this by if a lot of money is saved then it may be worth it.
-Evangelo2


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post #1460 of 30660 Old 06-15-2006, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelo2 View Post

Hey Guys,
I am wondering what you guys paid for a pair of Studio 100 V3's. I am thinking af buying a used pair and want to gauge how good a price Im getting.
Would you guys buy used? I think I don't get the Paradigm warranty like this by if a lot of money is saved then it may be worth it.
-Evangelo2

It has been my experience that used Paradigm speakers go for 30-40% off retail, depending on their age, condition, and general availibility.

- Tim


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post #1461 of 30660 Old 06-15-2006, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelo2 View Post

Hey Guys,
I am wondering what you guys paid for a pair of Studio 100 V3's. I am thinking af buying a used pair and want to gauge how good a price Im getting.
Would you guys buy used? I think I don't get the Paradigm warranty like this by if a lot of money is saved then it may be worth it.
-Evangelo2

I got my CC-570 used for $620 from someone on this forum. Buying used worked for me. I think hifi's 30-40% off retail is correct. Follow this link for retail prices.

http://www.bradfordshifi.com/prices.html
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post #1462 of 30660 Old 06-15-2006, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

I couldn't have said it better, Tim. That's what I'm hoping for, so I can get more space behind the front wall for a huge sub enclosure. So I could actually say that going from the 100s to 40s improved my low end..

I don't know Tim, a while back I asked ThomasW at the Cult of the IBs if my Maggie MMGs would mate well with an IB subwoofer. His opinion was it didn't go down low enough. He felt that the mains should go down a solid octave below the x-over point (40hz if using a 80 hz crossover point). Of course the MMGs lost it around 70 hz. The 20s I had did better, but not by much. Maybe the 40s will go low enough.

I just upgraded from 20s to 60s, in part because I too plan on installing an IB sub. I figured the extra $800 I saved from buying the 100s will get some decent IB drivers. I already have an Aragon 8008 BB amp and Behringer BFD for the IB, all I need are the drivers and a trip to the Home Depot, I'll be good to go.
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post #1463 of 30660 Old 06-15-2006, 08:26 PM
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Good point, JK. The crossover isn't a stopping point, only a rolloff. I'll have to take that into consideration.

I've been tossing around the idea of building some speakers now, too. I love the 100s, but am not sure that I want to give up 3' of depth or so of the room... I could build them myself and make the enclosure wider instead of deeper, and gain about 2' more depth of the room. I know, it's crazy to think I could come close to Paradigm's speakers, but it's worth playing with, even if it's just for the challenge. I'd even take a slight decrease in quality, for the additional benefits of DIY (cheaper, a good challenge, increased room depth, and I can make a huge "wall of sound" with a line array and tall ribbon tweeter, like the example on the front of the current PartsExpress catalog).

-Tim

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post #1464 of 30660 Old 06-16-2006, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antman27 View Post

Hello all,
I am thinking about upgrading my surrounds -I now have Cinema V1
They are mounted kind of high ( about 7Ft ) on MB60s angled down pointing into the listening area.
My Sofa is against the back wall that the speakers are mounted to
Will Cinema 90 v.3 be noticable improvement ? I was thinking about Atoms BUT I am afraid that since I am against the wall already they will stick out far passed ear level . ADPs would not be a good choice against the back walls right ?
Thanks ~

I have Cinema 110's as my rears mounted 2/3 up the wall so it's a little lower than yours. Top is about 6 1/2 feet off the ground. They work great and am pleased. I have brackets that allow them to be toed in and down a bit. The Atoms looked to be a bit large on the wall so I went with the 110's.

My fronts are Montior 9's and CC-370 with a JBL northridge sub all from a Yamaha RX-V1600.

Glenn
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post #1465 of 30660 Old 06-16-2006, 06:54 AM
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My question is about the cross over frequency I need to set for the 330's & ADP 170's on my Denon 3806 receiver? My setup is: 3*330's for the front and two ADP 170's surround and SVS PB12/Plus sub. Currently fronts are set to 90 Hz cut, rear 80 Hz and LFE is 80 Hz. The 3806 is set to LFE+Main and all speakers set to small. Any comments? I do not want to have a gap between 80 Hz and 110 Hz.

I purchased the SVS sub a week ago because of this forum and could not be happier.
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post #1466 of 30660 Old 06-16-2006, 08:23 AM
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That seems like a pretty decent configuration given those components, my06si. I have the same sub, minus the Plus, and like it a lot as well.

-Tim

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post #1467 of 30660 Old 06-16-2006, 09:08 AM
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thanks, i am going to stick with these settings unless someone else has a better recommendation for this setup. I have not yet touched the Denon auto eq thing. I am still reading other members post about the 3806 setup in regards to the auto eq.
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post #1468 of 30660 Old 06-16-2006, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by my06si View Post

My question is about the cross over frequency I need to set for the 330's & ADP 170's on my Denon 3806 receiver? My setup is: 3*330's for the front and two ADP 170's surround and SVS PB12/Plus sub. Currently fronts are set to 90 Hz cut, rear 80 Hz and LFE is 80 Hz. The 3806 is set to LFE+Main and all speakers set to small. Any comments? I do not want to have a gap between 80 Hz and 110 Hz.

I purchased the SVS sub a week ago because of this forum and could not be happier.

Check out the "My AVR-3806 Audyssey experience" thread in the "Amp..." forum.
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post #1469 of 30660 Old 06-16-2006, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post


I've been tossing around the idea of building some speakers now, too.

Someday, I want to build Orions.

Oh yes, someday, they will be mine!

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/orion_challenge.htm

To build a 5.1 or 7.1 system..... sounds like a lot of work, easier just to buy Paradigm.
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post #1470 of 30660 Old 06-16-2006, 05:37 PM
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Studio 20s v.3 and a cc470 up front. Paradigm Atoms as surrounds (5.1 setup).

Sub is an SVS PB10-ISD:









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