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post #151 of 30547 Old 08-17-2005, 03:56 PM
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so anyone have any experiance with the performance series?
--soheil
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post #152 of 30547 Old 08-17-2005, 06:19 PM
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Hmm, I thought we had better price here in Canada for Paradigm products, I was quote $2000 (CND) last week for a pair of Studio 60.
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post #153 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 06:21 AM
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Hello all SO Now I have a pair of Mini Monitors L&R- CC-350 ,Cinimas in the rear ,& a PDR8 with a denon 3805. The WIFE told me she does NOT like the wall unit towers ( that the Monitors sit on the shelfs) so This was my in to say IF we get rid of the wall unit where will we put the L&R speakers ( not giving her the ida we could get stands) SO NOW is my chance to upgrade to a nice pair of floor full range speakers. I was thinking about looking into the Monitor 90P & dump the PDR 8 also . any thoughts ?? I would love to get the Signature S8 But I do not have that kind of $$$$$$ I may be able to swing a pair of Studio 100 But I think the Monitor 90P Might be a better choice IF I also dump the sub.
Thoughts ??
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post #154 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 11:35 AM
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Paradigms and amplification.

First Some background

Previously my 2CH sys consisted of a Rotel RSX 1055 receiver (5 X 75 watts), a pair of Studio 60V2 and s Servo 15 V2 sub.
I was somewhat satisfied with the above. Its sound was a little laid back but reasonably detailed. Soundstaging was good and dynamics were decent for a smaller speaker.
My first upgrade was to a Rotel RMB 1075 power amp (125 X 5). I kept the RSX 1055 and used it as a pre-pro.
This was a disappointment. I thought there was only marginal improvement.
So I sold the 1075 and went back to Receiver for a while.
Next upgrade was to Studio 100 V3 from the 60 V2s.
Very nice improvement especially in the mid and high frequencies.
Next I bought an Aragon 8008ST amp (200 X 2 into 8 & 400 X 2 into 4)
Wow. This was probably the biggest improvement to date. I was still using the 1055 as a pre-pro but the new amp really made the 100s shine. Dynamics were hugely improved along with imaging and soundstage. All aspects of the sound were transformed.
With the Studio 60s the separate amp (rotel rmb 1075) made little difference over the receiver alone so I'm going to draw some possible conclusions from this.

-The Studio 60s V2 put such a minimal load on amplification that a decent receiver will sound as good as an Ok separate amp.
-The Rotel 1075 was not an OK amp but rather a dud.
-The Studio 100 V3s present a load too heavy for Rotel 1055 receiver and a separate amp is therefore needed.

For the record.
If you are using a receiver to power Studio 100 V3s then you are not getting anywhere near the potential of those speakers.
Try to beg, borrow or steal a good 2CH power amp and try it with the 100s. You will be stunned at the difference over a receiver. I promise.

Steve
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post #155 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 11:41 AM
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Well I took a walk@ lunch today to have a listen to some speakers .They did not have the Monitor 90P so I hade a listen to the Monitor 11s. I thought they hade great punch with out a sub ( I listened to SRV Tin Pan Ally & Screamin Cheata Wheelies ) I love bluesy rock! Than I hade a listen to the same tracks on the stuido 60s , I thought it sounded cleaner brighter but NOT as much punch as the M 11s . Like I said I now have MM & a PDR8 sub but If I upgrade I would like to lose the sub. My room is 14 Ft wide & 30 ft long but half is dinning room so I sit about 12 ft from speakers .The foks @ the store said my 3805 would not be enough to drive the stuido 100s With all of that said - room size music I love & reciever what towers would you suggest ?
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post #156 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 01:26 PM
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If you have a sub, you might as well get Studio 20s instead of any of the monitor series. I know you said you'd like to lose it, but the 20s and your sub will probably sound much better than no sub and only monitors.

Thanks for that great analysis, Energeezer.. I have 60s and am interested to know the caveats and "requirements" when moving to 100s, as I probably will in the spring.
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post #157 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 01:43 PM
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hey guys !
as the title says im having probs with my surround sound, reason being
i have studio 20's front, cc-570 center, servo-15 and paradigm FOCUS as side surrounds, all powered by Marantz 7400.

the sound doesnt blend well with the fronts esp when watchin movies, sumtimes in some intense effects scenes i feel Focus dont deliver well. i would have got adp--470 but it is not available in my COUNTRY. Yes ! ive called up every dealer and ended up in disappointment, i live in Pakistan. my HT is 75% used for movies, even when i listen to music i prefer to listen in STEREO.

would do u guys suggest about adp-470 over studio 20's as surrounds?. now that im definite to give the FOCUS back for sumthing for my side surrounds shud i go for 20's or adp-470 are really worth it. i will have to get adp-470's without auditioning them.

one more question which im sorry to throw in this thread is, the guy has POLK Fxi5 surrounds available with him, would they blend well with the system??
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post #158 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 02:37 PM
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I want to move to Floor Standing speakers - One major reason I think my 2 year old would pull on speaker stands & pull the speakers off the stands .
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post #159 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 04:01 PM
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Tim
Your question

Thanks for that great analysis, Energeezer.. I have 60s and am interested to know the caveats and "requirements" when moving to 100s, as I probably will in the spring.

My answer

The only 2 caveats are the size of the speakers, which for many is no problem, and the fact that they need more power to really shine. With the 60 V2s a good receiver had plenty of power to drive them properly. They sounded great with my Rotel Receiver as I stated above. When I inserted a seperate power amp (Rotel Rmb 1075) there was some improvement but not night and day. Upon reflection I feel that the RMB 1075 was PROBABLY not the greatest amp. Not that it was bad but it was after all a 5/ch amp with only about 50 w/ch more than the reciever.
There is one other thing that I feel may be related to the size of the 100s. Speaker placement is harder to nail down. I found myself tinkering for longer with the 100s to find the optimum placement. IMO they need more space around them.

The 100 V3 are a completely different league than the 60 V2 IMO. Even with an underpowerd amp (my receiver) the level of refinement was easily better in the mid to high freqs. With the receiver there was some improvement in the bass as well but I think the receiver was straining a bit in the low freqs and as a result pulling it all down somewhat.
Put the 100 V3 on good power and the results are stunning. Suddenly those extra bass drivers are being utilized and it is tight, clean bass. I could have afforded 80s at the time I bought my 60s but preferred the 60s due to thier speed and tight bass. Of course the 80s had em in impact but then I have a servo 15 so.....
With the 100 V3 you get that slam, dynamic impact and the speed.
The tweeter on the V3 is light years ahead of the V2 IMO. Its just smoother, more detailed and more realistic. Female voices have a completely different tone and all for the better. If you like your music up front and bright then I think the V2 is probably your speaker. I'm not classifieng the V2s as really bright or upfront but they are more that way than the V3. Paradigm has got the tweeter close in V2 and right in the V3.
I've heard people say that they prefer the looks of the V2 over the V3 but not me. I love the looks of the V3. They do sound better with the grills on which is too bad because with them off they look even better.

On a related note I have heard another pair of speakers (at a friends place) that really impressed me.
They were Anthony Gallo Ref 3.

http://www.roundsound.com/ref3.html

They sounded very very nice to me and are around the same price maybe a little more. I've seen em go on a-gon for 2K.
The problem is that my friend runs a completely tube system consisting of very expensive Audio Research and Audio Note gear so I'm not sure how much of the sound was due to that. On the other hand I had heard his system with Vanersteen 3s and hated it.
That is the very first time since I got my 100 V3s that I thought I might like to try something else. But then in my case I often like the sound of a system at first listen and then slowly start to sour on it as I find its faults.
I will say that those speaks are interesting and depending on your tastes way cool looking.
Food for thought.

BTW
Is it obvious that I have upgrade fever?
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post #160 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 04:59 PM
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Quote:


would do u guys suggest about adp-470 over studio 20's as surrounds?.

I can't say about the 470s, but if you can try out the 20s I think you might be pleased regarding the matching. I had just recently picked up 2 pairs of 20s, and had one pair 4 days before the other. I tried my old 5se's as surrounds, didn't sound so great. I tried some v.3 Atoms, and while they seemed to match tonally better than the 5se's, they still left a lot to be desired. When the 2nd pair of 20s hit, everything was perfect.

I've read numerous claims that "surround sound speakers don't have to match, you'll be mostly ok as long as you have the same brand" and to me, I just can't believe that anymore. Granted the 5se's and the Atoms are a long way from the Studio 20s. But even with movies the difference was amazing.

Unless you're already biased against dipoles, the adp-470s will probably suit you fine, unless of course you listen to lots of multi-channel music, then you might be happier with the 20s. The MC music, and slightly cheaper led me to the 20s. But with the narrowness of my room, I may drop some 470s in later.

"...almost anything most people buy sounds great in the abscence of comparison."
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post #161 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 06:30 PM
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Again, great info Energeezer. I have my 60s about 8" away from the wall... isn't very realistic to pull them out more due to it being my smallish living room. I currently am driving them with a 100Wx7 receiver, and they sound very good, but I'm sure could be better. I'll upgrade to 100s then a separate amp shortly thereafter.

Okay, so now I have a question for everyone...

Assuming you had the following setup:
100s
CC-570
ADP-470
20s

How would you power them separately? Would you get a 2-channel amp for the 100s and a 5 channel for the rest? A 3-channel and that's it? Or a 7-channel?

After pondering this for a few months, I'm leaning toward a 2-channel and a 5-channel, though I'm wondering how important it is for the L/C/R to be equally driven. I'm guessing the difference won't be noticeable if it's very similar.
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post #162 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

Okay, so now I have a question for everyone...

Assuming you had the following setup:
100s
CC-570
ADP-470
20s

How would you power them separately? Would you get a 2-channel amp for the 100s and a 5 channel for the rest? A 3-channel and that's it? Or a 7-channel?

After pondering this for a few months, I'm leaning toward a 2-channel and a 5-channel, though I'm wondering how important it is for the L/C/R to be equally driven. I'm guessing the difference won't be noticeable if it's very similar.

How much 2 channel audio do you listen to? If you have a large CD collection that you listen to I'd go the best 2 channel amp your budget will allow and let your receiver handle the rest. Put the money you were going to spend on the 5 channel into the 2 channel.

If you listen to a lot of DVD A and SACD then go the 2/5 route.

JohnG
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post #163 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 07:32 PM
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Probably will be 95% HT, 5% music. (Dedicated HT use)

Probably 2 channels 20% of the time, all 7 channels 80% of the time.
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post #164 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 08:51 PM
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I'm going to make the assumption that the bulk of you 7 ch listening is HT and not 7/CH audio. If it is a lot of 7 CH audio then I'd change my recommendation a bit.
If 80% of my listening was 7 channel (HT) then I would get a real good 5 oh amp. The 100s will really like 200 w/pc of quality amplification so I would power the 100s off a 2ch dual mono power amp and the other 5 off a good 5 ch amp (similiar to your 7 ch amp like you have now). IMO the other 5 speakers will not demand the same level of power reserve as the 100s especially for movies.
Since the bulk of your use is HT then a seperate 2 CH system (2CH preamp with HT Pass) is probably not neccessary. There is no getting around the fact that the 100s like the power.
If on the other hand you listen to a lot of multichannel music like SACD or DVD audio in 5/7 channel then I'd put as much cash as possible into a high powered 7/CH amp.
It really all boils down to how much you can spend. With a really, really high budget I'd go for seperate amps as much as possible
Do you plan on buying new or used?
For me I like to set my budget and then see what I can get new, then surf Audiogon for a while and see what I can get used.


You will find that buying used electronics (amps) will allow you some much nicer stuff. If you do your research and buy products with a good reputation and you still end up with a used product that does not really live up to your expectations then you can re-sell at close to par.
With my limited resources there is no way I could afford to buy all the equipment I really like new. The markup is so high and I like to change my equipment as I find ways of improving. I think it is real hard to choose components w/o testing them in house. As far as i'm concerned listening in the showroom is mostly a waste of time due to all the variables. The problem here is that the only way you will really get to test equip is if you fully intend to buy new and have a dealer who will let you test drive. Otherwise it is research on web sites and an educated guess. I prefer to make sure what ever I purchase is a great deal (used) and get my money back on a resale if I don't like it. This is also a lot of fun if you are an audio nut like myself.
One more thing.
If you want the 100s to sound thier best you will need to find a way to get more space around them than 8". I suppose there may be ways around that if you want to treat your room.
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post #165 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 09:56 PM
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You're correct that the bulk will be HT use... HDTV, DVD, games. My budget will probably be around $2500 for two amps... so I'll probably go $1000 for the 2-channel and $1500 for the 5-channel or so, I'm guessing. I'm not sure about used vs new. I'm not a big fan of constantly swapping out gear, but I don't have the most convenient method of doing so right now either, and I will by the time I'm ready to get the amp(s).

I'll probably get the 2-channel first, then a 5-channel later, based on your comments. I'm a bit worried about warranties, as I won't want to be screwed out of that much cash if it breaks. I agree with your assessment of how to audition them -- I'm guessing it would be rather difficult, and you mostly have to go by reputation and other people's systems. I think I'll go to my Paradigm dealer and see what their policy is for test driving the amps at home (I think it's 30 days), and if it's a liberal enough policy, I'll actually test drive a few and just get the one that I like new. Of course, I'll be posting back my impressions when I do so, to help others in their pursuits...
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post #166 of 30547 Old 08-18-2005, 10:02 PM
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Hi-

I'm putting together a music/HT setup (25% 2-ch music, 75% HT) in a relatively small room (13'x11'x8'). I'd like to keep the speaker budget in the $1200-$1500 range for a 5.1 setup. The receiver will probably be a $600-$700 Denon/Integra/Yamaha AV model. The main dealer in town is basically a Paradigm shop, so I'm looking at a pair of Focuses up front, paired with a CC-170 center and ADP-170 rears, and a PDR10 sub. (Seems a bit odd to spend a good percentage more on surrounds than for the fronts, but I suppose if I was really worried about it I could skip the dipoles and go with Atoms or Titans in the rear.) Anyway, for another $100 bucks or so, I could step up to either Esprit's or Mini Monitors for the front pair. Would mixing in a different series (Monitors) into an otherwise Performance setup cause problems with voice-matching, etc., esp. with the CC-170? Would it make more sense to go with the Focuses and drop that extra $100 into a CC-270?

Last question, and I realize this is a Paradigm thread and this is a loaded/open-ended query, but how would such a setup compete with a similarly priced Axiom system?

Thanks,
Sean
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post #167 of 30547 Old 08-19-2005, 06:59 AM
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Any thoughts on my possible upgrades ?
Hello all SO Now I have a pair of Mini Monitors L&R- CC-350 ,Cinimas in the rear ,& a PDR8 with a denon 3805. The WIFE told me she does NOT like the wall unit towers ( that the Monitors sit on the shelfs) so This was my in to say IF we get rid of the wall unit where will we put the L&R speakers ( not giving her the ida we could get stands) SO NOW is my chance to upgrade to a nice pair of floor full range speakers. I was thinking about looking into the Monitor 90P & dump the PDR 8 also . any thoughts ?? I would love to get the Signature S8 But I do not have that kind of $$$$$$ I may be able to swing a pair of Studio 100 But I think the Monitor 90P Might be a better choice IF I also dump the sub.
Thoughts ??
I want to move to Floor Standing speakers - One major reason I think my 2 year old would pull on speaker stands & pull the speakers off the stands

Well I took a walk@ lunch today to have a listen to some speakers .They did not have the Monitor 90P so I hade a listen to the Monitor 11s. I thought they hade great punch with out a sub ( I listened to SRV Tin Pan Ally & Screamin Cheata Wheelies ) I love bluesy rock! Than I hade a listen to the same tracks on the stuido 60s , I thought it sounded cleaner brighter but NOT as much punch as the M 11s . Like I said I now have MM & a PDR8 sub but If I upgrade I would like to lose the sub. My room is 14 Ft wide & 30 ft long but half is dinning room so I sit about 12 ft from speakers .The foks @ the store said my 3805 would not be enough to drive the stuido 100s With all of that said - room size music I love & reciever what towers would you suggest ?
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post #168 of 30547 Old 08-19-2005, 07:06 AM
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hey!!
would the lucky people with paradigm signatures make some comments?
what is your experience with these speakers in home theater, movies. would it make a great upgrade from my studios?
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post #169 of 30547 Old 08-19-2005, 07:22 AM
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antman, as said is it is to say this, as there is often a WAF issue, you don't want to go backwards and get rid of the sub, or she'll think you won't need one. It'll be that more difficult to go back to a sub later. Just some food for thought. I have 60s and they work very well driven by a receiver.

Darryl, from what I've listened to, and read on this forum, the Signatures do not sound much different from the Studios, except for the ADP due to the additional driver. They look unbelievably better, though. If you don't like the look of the Studios and want to spend a few thousand dollars to make them look insanely nice, then go for it. If you're expecting a big sonic benefit, get a separate amp or two.
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post #170 of 30547 Old 08-19-2005, 09:21 AM
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IF I get the studio 100s will a Denon 3505 be enough to power them ?
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post #171 of 30547 Old 08-19-2005, 09:35 AM
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According to others, not nearly to their full potential. But it'd probably be enough to only get a 2 or 3-channel amp (no need to drive the surrounds separately I would guess).
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post #172 of 30547 Old 08-19-2005, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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darryl, though I don't have the particular Signatures in question..the S8's, I do have the S2's, C3, and the ADP's. I use a sub with the S2's up front. I'm very pleased with the way they sound in my audio room. I listen to 75% 2-ch and multi-channel music, and 25% movies. I have them powered by Arcam and use all Arcam gear. I couldn't be happier, they're perfect for my particular room and needs. The Studio is a great line of speakers as well, the Birdseye Maple was a deal breaker for me....they are exquisite looking, but...sound as well also. I guess it boils down to what you're willing to pay for a certain speaker if you just can't move on without it...I'm happy with mine and haven't looked back
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post #173 of 30547 Old 08-19-2005, 02:49 PM
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Late entry ...

Center: Paradigm STUDIO/CC V.2
Fronts: Paradigm LCR-450
Surrounds: Paradigm ADP-450
Rears: Paradigm LCR-450 X2
Subs: Paradigm PW-2200 X2

Receiver: Rotel RSX-1065
with a QUAD-405 driving the rears.

-Tony
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post #174 of 30547 Old 08-19-2005, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Disto View Post

Late entry ...

Center: Paradigm STUDIO/CC V.2
Fronts: Paradigm LCR-450
Surrounds: Paradigm ADP-450
Rears: Paradigm LCR-450 X2
Subs: Paradigm PW-2200 X2

Receiver: Rotel RSX-1065
with a QUAD-405 driving the rears.

Just curious, I'm from Montreal area also, where did you purchase your Paradigm gear?
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post #175 of 30547 Old 08-19-2005, 06:56 PM
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Im in so cal where would I purchase paradigms either online or retailer
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post #176 of 30547 Old 08-20-2005, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TYBZ View Post

Just curious, I'm from Montreal area also, where did you purchase your Paradigm gear?

I got most of my Paradigm speakers a long time ago, but, I got them from multiple sources... Codell Audio, La Boutique Electronique, eBay and canuckaudiomart.

-Tony
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post #177 of 30547 Old 08-20-2005, 07:55 AM
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Hey thanks a bunch Disto, if you have other links or hints like those for Canadian source for A/V enthusiasm (anything, review sites, online retailers, retailers, etc.), don't hesitate to share them, it seems like I have difficulties finding good Canadian online retailer. You can PM them to me if you will

Thanks in advance!
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post #178 of 30547 Old 08-20-2005, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl b View Post

hey!!
would the lucky people with paradigm signatures make some comments?
what is your experience with these speakers in home theater, movies. would it make a great upgrade from my studios?

I have to disagree with miltimj on this one. And it's just an opinion for what it's worth.

I used to have the 100 v.2s, and while I had those, I bought the v.3 ADP 470's. To my ears it was quite apparent that the tweeter in the v.3 series was superior to the v.2's. That gave me the upgrade bug again. And to top that off the wife agreed with me that I should build a dedicated HT in an unfinished part of my home.
I loved the way the Sigs looked and wanted them for my HT instead of the monolithic 100's.
Here's where it gets goofy. I didn't think they sounded much better than my 100's or the v.3 100's in the showroom. I bought them anyways because of how they look and also because I got a great deal on the demos they had in the store.
When I hooked them up in my home, it took all of about 10 seconds to realize just how good these are. They were better than my v.2's and the tweeters are again another step up from the v.3's they are just liquid and detailed beyond belief. I attribute this to two things, one, is that I might have a better "memory" of my own room's acoustics making it easier to distinguish the diferences between the two. Two, in the showroom they were using an Anthem AVM20 and a Denon 3900 so they were using a lower resolution signal transfer (either coax or optical) than I was with my Elite 59AVi & Z9 through i-Link.
Either way no buyers remorse here. Also I could have been happy with my 100's forever, we're not talking huge differences. We're talking about that last 5 - 10%.

No contest on the finish though. The Sigs are very pleasing to the eye.
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post #179 of 30547 Old 08-20-2005, 08:42 AM
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Were you A/Bing the 100s vs the Sigs in your room, or going off of memory? I find it very difficult to accurately compare speakers from memory. You think, "wow, these look great, and they cost 3x as much, they're going to sound better...", and then begin listening with a bias, whether intentional or not. Same thing with comparing video displays to a certain extent.

I do agree that a better source can show differences between speakers much better, however. Also, I'm not saying that the Sigs don't sound better, but rather that the difference is very small. For the most part, you're upgrading from a great sounding speaker, to a great sounding speaker that is absolutely gorgeous.
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post #180 of 30547 Old 08-20-2005, 01:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Nauman View Post

hey guys !
as the title says im having probs with my surround sound, reason being
i have studio 20's front, cc-570 center, servo-15 and paradigm FOCUS as side surrounds, all powered by Marantz 7400.

the sound doesnt blend well with the fronts esp when watchin movies, sumtimes in some intense effects scenes i feel Focus dont deliver well. i would have got adp--470 but it is not available in my COUNTRY. Yes ! ive called up every dealer and ended up in disappointment, i live in Pakistan. my HT is 75% used for movies, even when i listen to music i prefer to listen in STEREO.

would do u guys suggest about adp-470 over studio 20's as surrounds?. now that im definite to give the FOCUS back for sumthing for my side surrounds shud i go for 20's or adp-470 are really worth it. i will have to get adp-470's without auditioning them.

one more question which im sorry to throw in this thread is, the guy has POLK Fxi5 surrounds available with him, would they blend well with the system??

I found the same to be true, until I used a receiver that EQs the rears and center to be roughly equivalent to the fronts. Non-believers can sit down; this works to make a similar-sounding package virtually perfect in creating a seamless soundfield.
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