Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 601 - AVS Forum
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post #18001 of 30458 Old 08-12-2010, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

oh man that will be pretty hard to listen to low volume for 100 hours!

Oh, it's absoutly killing me. Having the radio going 3-4 hours a day, M-F and longer on the weekends. But I'm not listening to it. Just doing it to break in the new speakers. But the hard part is trying to watch movies at low levels. So mostly anything without action or great sound effects. Since I'v had my speakers about 10 days, I figure I have about 60 hours to go But it will be worth it in the end
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post #18002 of 30458 Old 08-12-2010, 07:33 PM
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How loud would I play music through them?
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post #18003 of 30458 Old 08-12-2010, 08:37 PM
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Hey ferrari fan, I was wondering, what is that under your sub?

Also, when you do the mod you might want to tilt the centre channel a little bit more.
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post #18004 of 30458 Old 08-12-2010, 08:48 PM
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A couple of things...

The Paradigm DSP series are ported subs. They have dual ports in the baffle, directly below the driver.
Paradigm's new SE series sub is their ultra-compact category sub. It has a 10" downward (or forward!) facing driver, in a sealed cabinet with only an 11" footprint. Tune the sub with the Perfect Bass Kit and you have an extremely linear, articulate, ultra-compact sub with low-bass extension that I dare to label "shocking" for the cabinet's tiny dimensions. I know firsthand, I use one in my bedroom.
I do like the inclusion of the subsonic filter the SVS sub has... With those four little upward firing ports (with a metal grill sitting on top no less...), I can almost hear the chuffing from here! I'm sure it would be helpful to filter out all that information below the tuning frequency with the SVS.

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post #18005 of 30458 Old 08-12-2010, 10:31 PM
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Hey all. I am looking to add a great center channel and some surrounds to my Revolver Audio Music 5 towers. I was recommended to check out Paradigm. I know nothing about them but i'll explain a little bit about what i'm looking for.

My Revolvers are a shade on the forward side. I would like a center to match somewhat. My surround needs are as follows. I can only mount them in the rear corners of my room and my couch is pushed right back on that back wall. So i don't think bipole or dipole are the answer for me. I would like a fairly small bookshelf that will be awesome for surround as well as multichannel... preferably able to hang on the wall and able to handle some decent amounts of good clean power. I would like to find these in around 12" high or less and less than 10" deep.

My budget is around $1500-$2000 for both.
I would like to find something in black ash if possible.
I don't mind looking at used.
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post #18006 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 04:24 AM
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Hey would everyone in this thread recommend the cc290 with monitor 9s or with titans for a front stage? I have a pioneer elite 130 watts a channel and a jbl 12 inch sub. Thanks guys
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post #18007 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

Hey would everyone in this thread recommend the cc290 with monitor 9s or with titans for a front stage? I have a pioneer elite 130 watts a channel and a jbl 12 inch sub. Thanks guys

I would definately recommend the CC-290 with the Monitor 9's for sure!! I had a very very good deal on the Monitor 11's v.6 and I have the CC-290 and they are all amazing! I wish I could get the CC-390 but I cant fit it anywhere! lol
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post #18008 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari fan View Post

Just doing it to break in the new speakers. But the hard part is trying to watch movies at low levels. So mostly anything without action or great sound effects. Since I'v had my speakers about 10 days, I figure I have about 60 hours to go But it will be worth it in the end

What do you honestly think is going to change here.... there is absolutely no need to "Break In" speakers. Its all a myth.
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post #18009 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 01:03 PM
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yeah it seems like the 9's and 290 would work. my only concern is the sensitivity of the 9's more than the 290. would that really effect the dialog with movie watching? i know that the 390 would be a perfect match, but i just dont have the space for it, plus its too heavy without redoing my cabinet. so what do you guys think? thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylz25 View Post

I would definately recommend the CC-290 with the Monitor 9's for sure!! I had a very very good deal on the Monitor 11's v.6 and I have the CC-290 and they are all amazing! I wish I could get the CC-390 but I cant fit it anywhere! lol

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post #18010 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

yeah it seems like the 9's and 290 would work. my only concern is the sensitivity of the 9's more than the 290. would that really effect the dialog with movie watching? i know that the 390 would be a perfect match, but i just dont have the space for it, plus its too heavy without redoing my cabinet. so what do you guys think? thanks!

As long as you have a receiver to set levels of each speaker, this is a non-issue.

Go Broncos!
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post #18011 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaggeto View Post

As long as you have a receiver to set levels of each speaker, this is a non-issue.

Exactly what I was going to say.....My AVR I set up perfectly so my 11's are matched with the CC-290 so they arent overpowering at all!
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post #18012 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 03:10 PM
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awesome guys. yeah i got a pioneer elite vsx-92txh. its 130 watts a channel. i think it will souund better than my current front stage which is a b&w htm62 and 685 bookshelves
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post #18013 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 05:27 PM
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Hi all,

I know nothing. I am looking for input regarding Paradigm floor standers, or?

We've had a 3.1 Paradigm set-up in LR for @7yrs. Atom v.3's, 170 center, and PDR-10 v.3. LR is hardwood, 14' deep by about 22' wide and 24' vaulted ceilings. Facing fabric windows and minimal furnishings. Some refer to it as "acoustically challenged" room. Old mid-line Yamaha AVR and together all has been pleasing.

New receiver has ability to utilize front ht (presence) speakers. Intriguing to the wife, who is also considering allowing me to at least add surrounds to our set-up as an option.

So, what are my options? I don't insist on new, I am looking for a good match with existing. I lack the aural discrimination to make wise choices in listening rooms w/o some input from people who know something, hence my question to ya'll.

Opinions are welcome. Please try to expand on the "why" of your impressions. I will listen (read) carefully.

Thank you.

Mike K

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post #18014 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

What do you honestly think is going to change here.... there is absolutely no need to "Break In" speakers. Its all a myth.

Yes and no, a rubber cone surround could be subject to a certain pliability factor that might reach a stable consistency at a given point. But I think more important is the acclimatization of the cabinet to its' surroundings. I have to think that things like ambient temperature and humidity have a significant impact on wood and its' resonance.
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post #18015 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Yes and no, a rubber cone surround could be subject to a certain pliability factor that might reach a stable consistency at a given point. But I think more important is the acclimatization of the cabinet to its' surroundings. I have to think that things like ambient temperature and humidity have a significant impact on wood and its' resonance.

Yeah - I am wondering about this whole 100 hour thing, too. Paradigm states '100 hours for critical listening.' Does that mean the speakers sound better after 100 hours? What exactly is going on from a materials perspective? Rubber does not break in. Perhaps the tweeter material softens. But, 100 hours? What is magical about that number? What happens after 50 hours? My biggest wonder is about when can you crank the volume on these things. I wonder if I cranked them too soon and that is why I blew my tweeters.
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post #18016 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 10:02 PM
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I don't know where the 100 hour number came from. Paradigm's website says this:

Quote:


Is there a 'break-in' period for Paradigm® speakers?

Although Paradigm® and Paradigm® Reference speakers sound great right out of the carton, they will sound even better once they are broken-in. We therefore recommend that you operate the speakers for several hours before you do any critical listening.

I didn't do anything special to break in my Paradigm Signature S8's because I don't believe the change is audible even if Paradigm has measured it, and there is no "correct" procedure to break them in the anyways. I think this is an audiophile myth.

Crank them up! The ability to delay gratification is a sign of maturity, but this is neither the time nor the place for that kind of behavior.
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post #18017 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 10:40 PM
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post #18018 of 30458 Old 08-13-2010, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkard View Post

Hi all,

I know nothing. I am looking for input regarding Paradigm floor standers, or?

We've had a 3.1 Paradigm set-up in LR for @7yrs. Atom v.3's, 170 center, and PDR-10 v.3. LR is hardwood, 14' deep by about 22' wide and 24' vaulted ceilings. Facing fabric windows and minimal furnishings. Some refer to it as "acoustically challenged" room. Old mid-line Yamaha AVR and together all has been pleasing.

New receiver has ability to utilize front ht (presence) speakers. Intriguing to the wife, who is also considering allowing me to at least add surrounds to our set-up as an option.

So, what are my options? I don't insist on new, I am looking for a good match with existing. I lack the aural discrimination to make wise choices in listening rooms w/o some input from people who know something, hence my question to ya'll.

Opinions are welcome. Please try to expand on the "why" of your impressions. I will listen (read) carefully.

Thank you.

Mike K

I think I would move the existing Atoms to the surround positions, and upgrade the front L/C/R to Mini Monitors and CC-290, or SE1's and SE Center. IMO the side surrounds should be done long before the heights, since there is actual recorded content for the side channels, whereas the heights are simulated and their effectiveness is uneven at best.

The next step would be to upgrade the subwoofer.
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post #18019 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 02:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkard View Post

Hi all,

I know nothing. I am looking for input regarding Paradigm floor standers, or?

We've had a 3.1 Paradigm set-up in LR for @7yrs. Atom v.3's, 170 center, and PDR-10 v.3. LR is hardwood, 14' deep by about 22' wide and 24' vaulted ceilings. Facing fabric windows and minimal furnishings. Some refer to it as "acoustically challenged" room. Old mid-line Yamaha AVR and together all has been pleasing.

New receiver has ability to utilize front ht (presence) speakers. Intriguing to the wife, who is also considering allowing me to at least add surrounds to our set-up as an option.

So, what are my options? I don't insist on new, I am looking for a good match with existing. I lack the aural discrimination to make wise choices in listening rooms w/o some input from people who know something, hence my question to ya'll.

Opinions are welcome. Please try to expand on the "why" of your impressions. I will listen (read) carefully.

Thank you.

Mike K

I second the above. Replace the front stage with some of Paradigms newer models and move your Atoms to the rear. Then upgrade the sub.
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post #18020 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space View Post

Yeah - I am wondering about this whole 100 hour thing, too. Paradigm states '100 hours for critical listening.' Does that mean the speakers sound better after 100 hours? What exactly is going on from a materials perspective? Rubber does not break in. Perhaps the tweeter material softens. But, 100 hours? What is magical about that number? What happens after 50 hours? My biggest wonder is about when can you crank the volume on these things. I wonder if I cranked them too soon and that is why I blew my tweeters.

I don't think there's any way that cranking them up out of the box would cause any damage unless your amp was clipping and that would take a pretty weak amp in most rooms.

I still think I'm on the right track with the wood. The cabinets are manufactured in a temperature controlled facility then packaged in plastic and then stored and shipped who knows where at a variety of temperatures. None of which are close to the temperature and humidity levels of the average home they were designed in mind with.

With the considerable science behind the design of their speakers I don't think they would just willy-nilly throw out a comment like mbflemming quoted above if there wasn't some validity to it. Their product speaks for itself so it's not like they have to create false marketing jargon to promote it.
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post #18021 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 11:30 AM
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I have to believe that if there were a true danger to the speakers and high volume in the first 100 hours, then Paradigm would state that. They say "critical listening". I think that means that they may loosen up from a sound quality perspective, but that there is no danger of damage.
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post #18022 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 12:42 PM
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Well we finally got the room done and here are some of the photos we took this morning. It is a smaller room and the wife wanted to try and keep it looking more like a room and less like a theater. We move the TV out for movies but keep it back against the wall the rest of the time. It is hard for me to believe that the little entertainment center can hold both of those amps!







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post #18023 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTT917 View Post

I think I would move the existing Atoms to the surround positions, and upgrade the front L/C/R to Mini Monitors and CC-290, or SE1's and SE Center. IMO the side surrounds should be done long before the heights, since there is actual recorded content for the side channels, whereas the heights are simulated and their effectiveness is uneven at best.

The next step would be to upgrade the subwoofer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NADz View Post

I second the above. Replace the front stage with some of Paradigms newer models and move your Atoms to the rear. Then upgrade the sub.

Thanks BTT917 and NADz,

I'll take a hard look at the SE's. Mini Monitors would be a 2nd choice as I think a well designed and non-ostentatious floor stander would fit the LR a little better. Either way, I agree that surrounds would be the way to go if I can convince boss to allow me to wire under/around the raised hardwood floor that is the LR.

NADz, you comment above that the front stage Paradigms should be replaced with newer models-has there been much improvement in the consumer + level of Paradigm design and execution? Would there be a strong reason to shop new or 1yr old over a somewhat higher line from 4 or 5 yrs ago? Again, I don't keep up with this stuff, but I know enough to acknowledge that there are important details worth knowing.

Mike

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post #18024 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 12:54 PM
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OK, well, after my posting of pics of my new set up last week, everybody gave me a thumbs up, with the exception of the shelf support somewhat blocking my center channel speaker. So, today I re did the tv stand to elimanate the center support bar, and replace it with a 4 x 4 on the backside which won't be seen as the center channel will block it. The smaller 4 x 4 support you can't see as it's between the floor and the bottom shelf.

Many original suggestions mentioned turning the shelfs around which I can't as each shelf has 2 quanty 2 inch holes to pass cables through. You can see the holes on the picture of the stand without the center channel speaker.

I have included the original photo showing the support bar along with the three new pictures from today. There is a slight difference in the quality of the sound, now that the support is removed, but this could also be in addition to moving the center channel speaker forward about 5 inches. The front of the center channel speaker sits about two inches from the edge of the shelf, though it looks farther back in the last picture.


ORIGINAL

SHELF SUPPORTS

SHELF SUPPORTS IN PLACE

SPEAKER BACK ON SHELF
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post #18025 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrari fan View Post

OK, well, after my posting of pics of my new set up last week, everybody gave me a thumbs up, with the exception of the shelf support somewhat blocking my center channel speaker. So, today I re did the tv stand to elimanate the center support bar, and replace it with a 4 x 4 on the backside which won't be seen as the center channel will block it. The smaller 4 x 4 support you can't see as it's between the floor and the bottom shelf.

Many original suggestions mentioned turning the shelfs around which I can't as each shelf has 2 quanty 2 inch holes to pass cables through. You can see the holes on the picture of the stand without the center channel speaker.

I have included the original photo showing the support bar along with the three new pictures from today. There is a slight difference in the quality of the sound, now that the support is removed, but this could also be in addition to moving the center channel speaker forward about 5 inches. The front of the center channel speaker sits about two inches from the edge of the shelf, though it looks farther back in the last picture.


ORIGINAL

SHELF SUPPORTS

SHELF SUPPORTS IN PLACE

SPEAKER BACK ON SHELF

Very nice! I'm glad to see that you took everyone's advice and removed that post.
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post #18026 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Well we finally got the room done and here are some of the photos we took this morning. It is a smaller room and the wife wanted to try and keep it looking more like a room and less like a theater. We move the TV out for movies but keep it back against the wall the rest of the time. It is hard for me to believe that the little entertainment center can hold both of those amps!








Looks great, how is the XPA-2 vs the XPA-3 on the 100's?
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post #18027 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregdpw View Post

How loud would I play music through them?

For the break in period ? My installer recommended -30 ish. I go between -32 and -28 just for a bit of difference. I don't know if that matters, but I figure it wont hurt.
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post #18028 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weber1 View Post

Hey ferrari fan, I was wondering, what is that under your sub?

Also, when you do the mod you might want to tilt the centre channel a little bit more.


Under my sub is a home made riser, similar to a Auralex Great GRAMMA. My house has a crawl space underneath, and my previous sub ( Klipsch KSW15 ) which was downfiring, seemed to vibrate even though it was on carpet. Many people in different sub forums rave about the Auralex Great GRAMMA, but before or if I were to buy one, I thought about making my own to see it it helped. So far it seems to have helped as I can't crank my system to reference level yet as my speakers are not broken in.

I made it using the foam packing material that came with my SVS PB12-Plus, a 3/4 inch pice of plywood, and carpet. I used contact cement to glue everything together. Total for materials was less than $20.00. It seems to be doing it's job, and I don't think I'll be buying a Auralex Great GRAMMA and saving that $80.00 to buy movies.

The center is tilted up just a bit as the space between the shelfs is very limited.
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post #18029 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

What do you honestly think is going to change here.... there is absolutely no need to "Break In" speakers. Its all a myth.

Since my dealer recommended it, and I spent a nice dollar amount to buy my Paradigms, I figure it won't hurt.
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post #18030 of 30458 Old 08-14-2010, 01:17 PM
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Hey ferrari fan, can you comment on what is under your sub?
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