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post #23941 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Screen Shot View Post

Hello, first post on this forum.

I am looking for a 5.1 speaker system in the $1K range for my family room. Display will be a 50" Pioneer Kuro, and a Pioneer Elite AVR will drive the speakers. This will be used for general television watching, sports, possibly a movie on a rare occasion, and daily music via airplay.

What do you guys think of the Cinema 100 series?
http://www.paradigm.com/products/pro.../cinema-series

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Originally Posted by cjsiv View Post

Ok. I haven't heard the Cinema setup so take this with a grain I salt. If it were me, this is my thoughts before I buy:

If you just want nice sound with movies and something better than the TV speakers it will probably be ok. If I'm dropping $1000, I want better than ok. The sats are kinda small and the sub only goes down to 32hz. That is a pretty good size room to fill. I have not heard it, so this is my speculation. If someone else has heard the cinema 100, please chime in.

I would probably buy mini or atom monitors and pair it with a center-1. Then buy a sub from someone like Hsu. I do believe the center is $350 and the minis are $500. You could go with atoms and they would give you a little more cash for the sub without going over your initial $1000. You could use almost anything for surrounds for now and upgrade them later. I don't feel they are that important. Or if you went with atoms or minis, you could move them to surrounds and upgrade to monitor towers later. You get the point.

I think you will be happier performance wise with both movies and music. But if aesthetics or the WAF is what counts, if I were buying a small sat/sub setup, it would be high on my list as long as you are ok with the price.

My 2 cents. Good luck!

I went and listened to the new Cinema series a month or so ago. The sales rep also showed me the Millenia series.

As some background, I really have my eyes set on Studios, but I was looking for something as a stop gap to listen to some music and watch tv/movies that I could eventually shift to another area if/when I purchase some floor-standing speakers (that's an entirely different post).

Anyway, I agree that for the money the Millenia series doesn't seem like the best value. If you're pressed for space and want a good sounding set of speakers than sure you're good. Within your $1k budget I thought the Cinema sounded good as well (with the .1), but then as we moved to the 200s and the 400s I quickly found the 100s lacking. You could always opt for a 200 as the Center and/or the LR as well. However, the 200s and 400s require wall mounting (I believe the bracket is included) and can't be placed on stands unlike the previous Cinema series.

Maybe look at some of the Monitor series to blend in? Does anybody have some thoughts on how a Mini Monitor, CC-190 (v7s) and Cinema 100s (v4s) as surrounds would work out?

Not trying to dissuade you from getting the Cinemas, but I feel like somebody would buy them and then almost immediately be itching to get something more.
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post #23942 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 06:30 AM
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Hi,

I have been looking at the milennia 20's, basic quick question, whilst i look through the thread?

Are they any good?

Easy see?
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post #23943 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 01:18 PM
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Update on my Studio upgraditis:

Spoke with my salesman today after he spent most of Thursday talking with his Paradigm rep. My salesman told the rep that he had a client interested in upgrading to the Studio line but was hesitant to do so if a new Studio version was in the works. His answer "We plan on rolling out a new Studio version at CES 2013 which will have trickle down additions from the reference line (one of which should be the corrugated woofers)"

So there ya go, new Studio's will be available at/around this time next year. Looks like I will begin saving up
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post #23944 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman07 View Post

I went and listened to the new Cinema series a month or so ago. The sales rep also showed me the Millenia series.

As some background, I really have my eyes set on Studios, but I was looking for something as a stop gap to listen to some music and watch tv/movies that I could eventually shift to another area if/when I purchase some floor-standing speakers (that's an entirely different post).

Anyway, I agree that for the money the Millenia series doesn't seem like the best value. If you're pressed for space and want a good sounding set of speakers than sure you're good. Within your $1k budget I thought the Cinema sounded good as well (with the .1), but then as we moved to the 200s and the 400s I quickly found the 100s lacking. You could always opt for a 200 as the Center and/or the LR as well. However, the 200s and 400s require wall mounting (I believe the bracket is included) and can't be placed on stands unlike the previous Cinema series.

Maybe look at some of the Monitor series to blend in? Does anybody have some thoughts on how a Mini Monitor, CC-190 (v7s) and Cinema 100s (v4s) as surrounds would work out?

Not trying to dissuade you from getting the Cinemas, but I feel like somebody would buy them and then almost immediately be itching to get something more.

Not that good, because the Mini Monitors have such incredibly superior sound quality to their entry level CC's. You're better off just running the Mini Monitors, or if you're lucky enough to find 1x mini monitor as a center. I got suckered into the 5.1 craze like most people for my first setup, and wasted money on a cc270 that to this day remains just for show because it sounds so much better with just the 2x mini monitors shining instead.

Paradigm's Monitor series sound better to my ears than any other line of speakers in their price range.. but the Cinema and Millennia lines of speakers are a huge step down though and I would never recommend them.
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post #23945 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Update on my Studio upgraditis:

Spoke with my salesman today after he spent most of Thursday talking with his Paradigm rep. My salesman told the rep that he had a client interested in upgrading to the Studio line but was hesitant to do so if a new Studio version was in the works. His answer "We plan on rolling out a new Studio version at CES 2012 which will have trickle down additions from the reference line (one of which should be the corrugated woofers)"

So there ya go, new Studio's will be available at/around this time next year. Looks like I will begin saving up

Umm, we just had CES 2012. Did we miss an announcement?
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post #23946 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Superman07 View Post


Umm, we just had CES 2012. Did we miss an announcement?

Oops, meant 2013. Thanks for catching that.
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post #23947 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 03:23 PM
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Listened to some Studio 60s today and thought they sounded quite nice. The dealer that had them only had a Yamaha and Pioneer AVRs though and I was wondering if anyone has the 60's paired with Denon? I've got a 4311.

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post #23948 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Listened to some Studio 60s today and thought they sounded quite nice. The dealer that had them only had a Yamaha and Pioneer AVRs though and I was wondering if anyone has the 60's paired with Denon? I've got a 4311.

My guess is Denon may sound a tad better (subjective of course), depending on which. I think the Denons have a warm sound to them last time I heard them, which should mate nicely with studio 60's. It would probably sound similar to the Pioneer, although I'm not that familiar with the newer Yamaha AVR's so I'm not sure if their sound has changed at all.
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post #23949 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Listened to some Studio 60s today and thought they sounded quite nice. The dealer that had them only had a Yamaha and Pioneer AVRs though and I was wondering if anyone has the 60's paired with Denon? I've got a 4311.

Be more of a difference between the Audyssey, YPAO & MCACC (if you use them) than there will be between the recievers themselves.

With the 4311 you've got XT32 with Pro capability...I think that trumps the others by a long shot. So if you liked the 60's in the showroom you'll love 'em at home.
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post #23950 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post


Oops, meant 2013. Thanks for catching that.

Thanks for the info BCJ

I figured we were getting pretty close to a new studio series. I don't expect the be tweeter as that would make them way tool expensive but it will be interesting to see if they make any improvements in sound quality. I don't see a big improvement in sound between the 3 4 or 5 series. I guess it would be better for them to not be a big jump in sound quality because it would save me some money but if they are I guess I might upgrade from my v3.



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post #23951 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Update on my Studio upgraditis:

Spoke with my salesman today after he spent most of Thursday talking with his Paradigm rep. My salesman told the rep that he had a client interested in upgrading to the Studio line but was hesitant to do so if a new Studio version was in the works. His answer "We plan on rolling out a new Studio version at CES 2013 which will have trickle down additions from the reference line (one of which should be the corrugated woofers)"

So there ya go, new Studio's will be available at/around this time next year. Looks like I will begin saving up

Style wise perhaps corrugated woofers might look more attractive, but then its a question of woofer rigidity between the studios and signatures, that and more power handling.

The new monitor sub 8,10, 12 utilize a corrugated woofer surround BTW, sound wise they are OK. Considering all the competition at their price range you can do better.

Good luck holding out to next year this time.

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post #23952 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Listened to some Studio 60s today and thought they sounded quite nice. The dealer that had them only had a Yamaha and Pioneer AVRs though and I was wondering if anyone has the 60's paired with Denon? I've got a 4311.

I have a new set up of studio 100's v.5 and a cc-590 v.5 which is still somewhat huge in spite of being second biggest. They all sound extremely blended/smooth on flat settings on my Denon AVR-2809. The AVR isn't even getting warm whatsoever driving these speakers at reasonable levels as I break them in. ADP-590 surrounds are late due next week,but dealer tell me that they just made a another revision change so these are new as of January 2012. Made a joke about Microsoft fixing software and not updating the version, and dealer says Paradigm does that also with minor in-house updates. A Denon AVR-4311 should be able to drive studio 60's wonderfully without suffering being too bright, as the Denon sounds very neutral. Will run Audyssey XT when I have a working set and the speakers are more broken in, should make quite a difference.

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post #23953 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 11:00 PM
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^^^ Your 100's and center will give your ears some pleasant sound if you decide to add an external amp....I added a Parasound amp to my front 3 after running them with a Marantz receiver for a couple of years and the soundstage really opened up when higher listening levels were chosen.

I'm sure your dealer would be willing to let you demo one.


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post #23954 of 30660 Old 02-25-2012, 11:38 PM
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^^^ Your 100's and center will give your ears some pleasant sound if you decide to add an external amp....I added a Parasound amp to my front 3 after running them with a Marantz receiver for a couple of years and the soundstage really opened up when higher listening levels were chosen.

I'm sure your dealer would be willing to let you demo one.

I'm waiting to see what D&M (Denon, Marantz) puts out later this year after the Japan earthquake greatly delayed product roll outs. Have seen suggestions about various amps, thanks for pointing out Parasound as a brand.

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post #23955 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 06:46 AM
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I have a new set up of studio 100's v.5 and a cc-590 v.5 which is still somewhat huge in spite of being second biggest. They all sound extremely blended/smooth on flat settings on my Denon AVR-2809. The AVR isn't even getting warm whatsoever driving these speakers at reasonable levels as I break them in. ADP-590 surrounds are late due next week

Didn't get a chance to listen to the surrounds, but looks like they have drivers on the front and side. Does this mess with the "surroundness" of the sound? Are they dipolar?

Also - doesn't seem that many Studio line speakers are available used (Audiogon/eBay)? Must be that folks really like them and don't want to sell.

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post #23956 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Oops, meant 2013. Thanks for catching that.

Thought you probably meant 2013.

I would be interested if anybody else hears similar news from their dealers or reps.
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post #23957 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Style wise perhaps corrugated woofers might look more attractive, but then its a question of woofer rigidity between the studios and signatures, that and more power handling.

The new monitor sub 8,10, 12 utilize a corrugated woofer surround BTW, sound wise they are OK. Considering all the competition at their price range you can do better.

Good luck holding out to next year this time.

I'll definitely be holding out......my salesman even said if I try to get him to sell Studio's to me before the new ones come out, he would strongly dissuade me from buying. Not often a salesman would turn a client away from spending money but then again he is a phenomenal guy.
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post #23958 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

^^^ Your 100's and center will give your ears some pleasant sound if you decide to add an external amp....I added a Parasound amp to my front 3 after running them with a Marantz receiver for a couple of years and the soundstage really opened up when higher listening levels were chosen.
.

Yeah, it might, but just a word of caution, that's not a "one size fits all" solution.
It really is dependent on the size of room, listening distance, receiver and amp involved.
(The older Studios (v.1's v.2's) were definitely power hungry, but as they've added more drivers I have to think they should have become more efficient.)

The best $$ vs performance upgrade is still room treatments and getting the bass right, be it using a sub, multiple subs, bass traps, electronic room correction or any combination thereof. Once you've done that there's a greater likelihood of being able to pick up on the subtleties of an amp change. Unless of course the original amp/receiver was woefully under-powered.
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post #23959 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post


Yeah, it might, but just a word of caution, that's not a "one size fits all" solution.
It really is dependent on the size of room, listening distance, receiver and amp involved.
(The older Studios (v.1's v.2's) were definitely power hungry, but as they've added more drivers I have to think they should have become more efficient.)

The best $$ vs performance upgrade is still room treatments and getting the bass right, be it using a sub, multiple subs, bass traps, electronic room correction or any combination thereof. Once you've done that there's a greater likelihood of being able to pick up on the subtleties of an amp change. Unless of course the original amp/receiver was woefully under-powered.

Agreed!
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post #23960 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Didn't get a chance to listen to the surrounds, but looks like they have drivers on the front and side. Does this mess with the "surroundness" of the sound? Are they dipolar?

Also - doesn't seem that many Studio line speakers are available used (Audiogon/eBay)? Must be that folks really like them and don't want to sell.

Yes 3 way dipolar design. Uses a 7" woofer in front with crossover at 300 hz to a 3 1/2" midrange and at 2.1 khz to a 1" dome tweeter on either side. Since they use the same drivers, they are sonically coherent with the rest of the series. They are on the small side but still 17 pounds.

Plan to have them on 30 inch high stands rather then wall mounted as they will be angled from corners of the room. I question the ability of using them oppose to like s10 or s20's for rears for 5 channel music, and the dealer demoed them for me, and said based on you seating and room these would work better.

I see the studios occasionally for sale online, but IMHO yes respective owners don't sell them that of often, because of their useful life, perceived value compared to other brands for music/home theater.

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post #23961 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post
I'll definitely be holding out......my salesman even said if I try to get him to sell Studio's to me before the new ones come out, he would strongly dissuade me from buying. Not often a salesman would turn a client away from spending money but then again he is a phenomenal guy.
Sorry have to laugh. What Paradigm sales person would tell you to hold off for a year? I have three dealerships local to me, if it was coming within a month or two and if you specially inquired there were new models they would probably offer a better discount on the current line over the next models.

But improvements to speakers are not always done to what works best for a consumer. Look at the new monitor line. Now made in China (which is no knock of quality), but the look of the series 6 is quite different compared to series 7. The speakers are smaller, as that is what paradigm felt was appropriate to home theater. We might see that happen to the future studio line, as slightly more efficient corrugated woofers are used. The current series, I have listened to quite a bit are more then adequate to the job, and if you need more bass, there are many sub-woofers out there.

Just assuming that minor improvements from the next step up migrated to a lower line doesn't mean a dramatically step up in musically quality. I seen this happen on B&W a lot as a comparison. These manufacturers obviously keep making improvements (off axis dispersion, efficiency, higher output drivers), but every revision doesn't equate to night and day difference, only a very minor difference after so many generations.

Best of luck on your extended wait.

Here's the last two series marketing literature.

 

Studio_Series_v5.pdf 382.5986328125k . file

 

Studio_v4_PDS.pdf 272.4951171875k . file
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File Type: pdf Studio_v4_PDS.pdf (272.5 KB, 8 views)
File Type: pdf Studio_Series_v5.pdf (382.6 KB, 4 views)

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post #23962 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 03:12 PM
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What Paradigm sales person would tell you to hold off for a year?

lol, mine because he apparently knows me very well. We actually spent a majority of yesterday talking about how I could remodel my room to fit a bigger projection screen (and enough space to use an acoustically transparent screen with speakers behind it), a second row of seats, etc....all because the next Studio line is a year off. He's been a great guy to work with over the years and definitely helps me make good choices, not expensive choices just so he can make a profit. He convinced me to wait until the new version comes out because there's a lot I can do with my room in the meantime (for little money), plus I can save up and pay all cash, and even a year from now he guaranteed he would give me trade in credit for my version 7 Monitors. In this instance patience is the logical choice because either the v6 Studios will be worth the wait or I'll just end up scoring some v5 Studio's for a huge discount when the v6's come out

All urge of "upgraditis" or the "gotta have it now syndrome" is gone after our talk yesterday. Now my head is full of things I can do to better my overall HT room layout/atmosphere while I wait til next year
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post #23963 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

lol, mine because he apparently knows me very well. We actually spent a majority of yesterday talking about how I could remodel my room to fit a bigger projection screen (and enough space to use an acoustically transparent screen with speakers behind it), a second row of seats, etc....all because the next Studio line is a year off. He's been a great guy to work with over the years and definitely helps me make good choices, not expensive choices just so he can make a profit. He convinced me to wait until the new version comes out because there's a lot I can do with my room in the meantime (for little money), plus I can save up and pay all cash, and even a year from now he guaranteed he would give me trade in credit for my version 7 Monitors. In this instance patience is the logical choice because either the v6 Studios will be worth the wait or I'll just end up scoring some v5 Studio's for a huge discount when the v6's come out

All urge of "upgraditis" or the "gotta have it now syndrome" is gone after our talk yesterday. Now my head is full of things I can do to better my overall HT room layout/atmosphere while I wait til next year

I think its great that you guys have such a good relationship and you can now focus on your other project until these speakers are available in v.6. It sounds to me like a shop who has a long term vision and not a 'hit and run' mentality. Good on you for not accepting the purchase until all of the planets line up.

I am also into watches and have been waiting for the Panerai or PAM 386 which has been delayed now for almost 18 months. I could get another watch but I don't want another watch and am willing to wait another year to get the one I want. There is something nice about not settling and sticking to your vision.
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post #23964 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 06:09 PM
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Plan to have them on 30 inch high stands rather then wall mounted as they will be angled from corners of the room. I question the ability of using them oppose to like s10 or s20's for rears for 5 channel music, and the dealer demoed them for me, and said based on you seating and room these would work better.

As I'm planning on a 7.1/2 system, I would most likely have a couple on the side walls and a couple in the rear. Is that not recommended? The dealer I saw them at had them mounted on the wall about 4-5 feet up.

On another note - I noticed the CC-590 is rear ported - how much space behind is recommended?

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post #23965 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

As I'm planning on a 7.1/2 system, I would most likely have a couple on the side walls and a couple in the rear. Is that not recommended? The dealer I saw them at had them mounted on the wall about 4-5 feet up.

Paradigm suggests either a wall mount or using a stand when using the ADP's. It is dependent on the room size, available walls, and your seating arrangement how you want it set up. Mine is more or less square as wide as it deep, so having them on the wall close behind above me would not be as effective as angled on each side of seating area IMHO. I don't have a wall on one side it is open, so hence the stands.

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Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

On another note - I noticed the CC-590 is rear ported - how much space behind is recommended?

Mine are sitting on a shelf with a short support column behind them only 3" away, and then open on the sides to the back wall another 2'. Doesn't appear to be compromising the amount of bass that it produces by having them somewhat close. I can still move it further away from support column a few more inches out as a option. Anybody else found there to be a problem in this regard with your center?

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post #23966 of 30660 Old 02-26-2012, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

All urge of "upgraditis" or the "gotta have it now syndrome" is gone after our talk yesterday. Now my head is full of things I can do to better my overall HT room layout/atmosphere while I wait til next year

Don't most home theater buffs take their time, and plan, scheme, for endless hours driving sales people crazy? I been exploring changing out my speakers for at least a couple of years, among many other improvements and changes.

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post #23967 of 30660 Old 02-27-2012, 12:15 AM
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But improvements to speakers are not always done to what works best for a consumer. Look at the new monitor line. Now made in China (which is no knock of quality), but the look of the series 6 is quite different compared to series 7. The speakers are smaller, as that is what paradigm felt was appropriate to home theater. We might see that happen to the future studio line, as slightly more efficient corrugated woofers are used. The current series, I have listened to quite a bit are more then adequate to the job, and if you need more bass, there are many sub-woofers out there.

Interesting statement,
I've not looked at Paradigm Monitor line in a store since I bought my 2008 v5 Monitor 9 mains and cc390 center with adp390 surrounds.

When I saw the latest monitor 9's in store last week, there seemed to be little lineage at all.

The newer ones simply looked smaller, even taking the plastic grille cover off the new one felt flimsy and flexible compared to mine.

Granted, I did not listen to them due to time, still my initial impression is a downscaling of them to make clear good/better/best line up.

Possible the older monitor line up was too much value for the money, so this was done as long term strategy and positioning of their branded line up.

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post #23968 of 30660 Old 02-27-2012, 04:54 AM
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So after spending way too much time in the forums yesterday, I started wondering if I should even be looking at the 60s or 100s and instead just get seven 20s? (or combo of 20s and ADPs) I already planned on having a sub so I'm not worried about the low end. Listening will be mostly (80%+) HT. I had full towers, bipolar surrounds and a sub in my last theater but I wonder if I ever really fully utilized the towers. Room size will most likely be 13x23.

So I could go:
1. 7 20s
2. 6 20s and a CC-590
3. 5 20s and 2 ADP-590s
4. 4 20s, CC-590, 2 ADP-590s

Thoughts? Does anyone here have a complete 20s setup with sub?

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post #23969 of 30660 Old 02-27-2012, 05:56 AM
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blipszyc,

Here's what I'd do.

Save your money on the surrounds. Start with the most important speaker first, the center. Then your left and right channel, then your subwoofers.

Get the following;

CC-690
2 x 100's (If possible, second choice would be the 60)
Get two good subwoofers, look at the Rhythmic FV12 or, if at all possible, get 2 sealed F12's.

Now look into surrounds. The most important surrounds are the L/R ones then the rears. The sound coming from all these channels, including the new high and wides is minimal and can be done with simple speakers. Look into these, http://www.amazon.com/Paradigm-Cinem...350567&sr=8-10. Their cheap and will get the job done. With their cost, you could upgrade to a 9 channel system easily too.
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post #23970 of 30660 Old 02-27-2012, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by brianlsu View Post

While a voltage drop is normal when high load or amperage equipment is turned on. What you have is not normal. You need to check the outlets first for good connections, or change them out. Then check your main for a good ground connection. Have an electrician over and do a check on both for you.

I had the same thing after redoing my house and it was the main. The ground, which probably hadn't been touched in 30 years, was loose.

Thanks for the info. Damn it, and I just had the electrician over to clean up/remove some dangerous rotted outlets in the basement I'm working on. He's gonna be coming back, I'll definitely ask him to check it out when he does.
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